Prisoner’s Dilemma

[SneakySecrets]

A classic I’m sure many of you are familiar with.  You and an anonymous accomplice get arrested, police bring you in and interview you separately.  There are four possible outcomes:

A) You rat, he doesn’t.  You get away, he gets 3 years.

B) He rats, you don’t.  He gets away, you get 3 years.

C) You both cop to it, one year for both.

D) You both deny everything, both get away.

How do you respond?  And why?

[GardenSkater77]

I never talk to the police. I let my attorney do the talking.

I forgot the answer but I wanted to respond before I looked it up.

I don’t think you can win if you talk . That is my guess…

[SneakySecrets]

I mean a year, that’s a winter and then a spring and then a summer then a fall then boom you’re out.  Everything still looks the same, it’ll take you a little while to reacclimate but otherwise you’re ok.

Now three years, now you get out and all the cars and sneakers look different.  People have moved on.  Friends, jobs and connections you once had have moved on… life has passed you by a little bit.

Or do you call the system’s bluff and somehow mentally tunnel into the depths of this other person’s soul and see a fellow soldier?  Just how trusting are you?

[SatanicPanic]

Deny everything. Always deny everything.

[Coastal Fever]

I mean a year, that’s a winter and then a spring and then a summer then a fall then boom you’re out.  Everything still looks the same, it’ll take you a little while to reacclimate but otherwise you’re ok.

Now three years, now you get out and all the cars and sneakers look different.  People have moved on.  Friends, jobs and connections you once had have moved on… life has passed you by a little bit.

Or do you call the system’s bluff and somehow mentally tunnel into the depths of this other person’s soul and see a fellow soldier?  Just how trusting are you?

This is realer shit than I can even wrap my mind around.  Infinite respect to anyone who’s ever done time and come out the other side.  I can barely handle myself outside I can’t imagine how I’d survive inside.

[caiiro]

obviously D, what loss is there if we both get away scot-free

[Abyss1]

I never talk to the police. I let my attorney do the talking.

I forgot the answer but I wanted to respond before I looked it up.

I don’t think you can win if you talk . That is my guess…

Yes the best answer is always "Lawyer"

[Atiba Applebum]

A classic I’m sure many of you are familiar with.  You and an anonymous accomplice get arrested, police bring you in and interview you separately.  There are four possible outcomes:

A) You rat, he doesn’t.  You get away, he gets 3 years.

B) He rats, you don’t.  He gets away, you get 3 years.

C) You both cop to it, one year for both.

D) You both deny everything, both get away.

How do you respond?  And why?

I wait for my lawyer and don’t rely on cops in the moment to emotionally sway me because they are legally allowed to lie to me in an interrogation and they also don’t hand down sentences there

[TheLurper]

Real life example, my friend and I ran from the cops when we were in HS (a few minutes of high speed chase on the highway).

Cops tried to get my buddy to admit to drinking say, "Lurp tells us the two of you have been drinking all night." He almost admitted cause he had been drinking, but then he remembered that I wasn't into drinking and preferred smoking weed instead, so he denied everything. Best choice he ever made.

[Willie]

Real life example, my friend and I ran from the cops when we were in HS (a few minutes of high speed chase on the highway).

Cops tried to get my buddy to admit to drinking say, "Lurp tells us the two of you have been drinking all night." He almost admitted cause he had been drinking, but then he remembered that I wasn't into drinking and preferred smoking weed instead, so he denied everything. Best choice he ever made.

This is actually good advice because cops often don’t have the evidence they pretend to have so if you make them have to prove it, they’ll often come up short.

I got busted for underage drinking when the cop asked “how many drinks did you have?” and I told him “only two.”

Afterwards, my dad was like “Always say ‘none’, even if you’re falling over drunk. It’s on them to prove it - don’t help them!”

[HeavyAndExpensive]

Now three years, now you get out and all the cars and sneakers look different

But how are the pants?

[4LOM]

The set up doesn’t seem like the classic scenario since there’s a way out. It’s more Kobashi Maru.

pre-crime promise - if caught, don’t rat

Scenario:
Both confess - each 6 years
You confess, anon no rat - you free, anon get 4
Anon confess, you no rat - anon free, you 4
Both no rat - 2 years

As rational and self-interested, you both confess (in hopes of getting no time), and knowing you can’t trust other to keep pre-crime promise (since they also rational and self-interested)

As a result, you both get 4

Why not rat in such a scenario?

[Atiba Applebum]

The set up doesn’t seem like the classic scenario since there’s a way out. It’s more Kobashi Maru.

pre-crime promise - if caught, don’t rat

Scenario:
Both confess - each 6 years
You confess, anon no rat - you free, anon get 4
Anon confess, you no rat - anon free, you 4
Both no rat - 2 years

As rational and self-interested, you both confess (in hopes of getting no time), and knowing you can’t trust other to keep pre-crime promise (since they also rational and self-interested)

As a result, you both get 4

Why not rat in such a scenario?

Right.   It’s hypothetical, so who cares.   The question should be reframed in the context of the DAs office taking you to trial vs taking a deal, etc

[GardenSkater77]

Expand Quote

Now three years, now you get out and all the cars and sneakers look different

[close]

But how are the pants?

This and the Hot Lil Takes suggestion…you’re doing good work today.

[Urtripping]

Expand Quote

Now three years, now you get out and all the cars and sneakers look different

[close]

But how are the pants?

5 year cycle, difference negligible

[pugmaster]

[GardenSkater77]

This should be mandatory viewing in High School. It’s a shame kids are at such a disadvantage when they first deal with the cops. My dad told me when I got my license that if I ever get in trouble don’t say anything and he’ll come to the station and speak on my behalf. Some kids parents don’t teach this and schools need to teach real shit.

[roll_dog]

obviously D, what loss is there if we both get away scot-free

that's not quite how game theory works though. if you knew he wouldn't rat then you would pick D every time, but you don't know what they will do.

[Jehoshaphat Augustus]

atleast 15% of yall make me sick!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Waco_shootout
177 arrests of real ones
9 deaths
a "four-year prosecutorial fiasco that resulted in zero convictions."

also: say it with me now:

[pugmaster]

I knew it was common practice, but didn't realize it was sanctioned by the legal system.  Cops can/will lie to you.

https://innocenceproject.org/police-deception-lying-interrogations-youth-teenagers/

[ChronicBluntSlider]

https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=115599.msg3505907

[Atiba Applebum]

I knew it was common practice, but didn't realize it was sanctioned by the legal system.  Cops can/will lie to you.

https://innocenceproject.org/police-deception-lying-interrogations-youth-teenagers/

Also a cop doesn’t actually have to tell you they’re a cop.   Do not get your law from television shows!

[pugmaster]

wowzers

[BurgerCop]

Say nothing without a lawyer, or in the immortal words of Pot Brothers at Law, "SHUT THE FUCK UP".

[Chavo]

Having worked in the judicial branch for the last 7 years, there is a the constant reminder that lying under oath is one of the worst things you can do in a courtroom. Falsely admitting to a crime, however, is not only encouraged by law enforcement but facilitated by the courts.

[SneakySecrets]

Have you seen, in your opinion, innocent people put away in jail?  I’ve sat in a few drunk tanks and one county cell for a few weeks as a guilty man but I couldn’t imagine serving time while innocent. 

[Chavo]

Have you seen, in your opinion, innocent people put away in jail?  I’ve sat in a few drunk tanks and one county cell for a few weeks as a guilty man but I couldn’t imagine serving time while innocent.

I work on the civil side so that does not really come into play. In general though, self-represented litigants will almost always get screwed, regardless of fault.