look, these dudes know the money isn't in skateboarding shoes. so they're starting this brand and making loafers to appeal to the other 98% of the world that DOESN'T skate. And they know when they DO make a skate shoe, it'll be somewhat accepted because of the status of EE and Herm. It was the same with Supra. This is a FOOTWEAR company, NOT a skate shoe brand.