Author Topic: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock  (Read 371309 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BehindTheLens

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Rep: 0
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #600 on: January 06, 2019, 07:13:44 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
the video:

I see an altercation (not clear who started it)

security guard falls/gets pushed down 1st time

he gets back up and rushes the skateboarders

then he gets pushed/ hit/ falls down 2nd time and appears to hit his head, stops moving


anybody see anything different?
[close]

I re-watched it today and that's what I see as well.  Well he got punched the first time he fell, maybe trying to get back up?  Otherwise yeah.  He got up rushed em, got hit, fell and hit head and that's what effed him up was the concrete. 

I have seen much worse beatdowns at punk shows in the 80's, I think the issue is he hit his head on the concrete. 

Some FSU dude knocked someone out with one punch, guy fell hit head on concrete and FSU dude got convicted of murder.  If I remember correctly that is.
[close]

Maybe someone should take still frames of the skateboard being violently flung towards the right side of his head where moments later he falls backwards and doesn't try to break his fall or move because he's out cold before he falls down. Notice how the picture after his surgery it was the right side of his brain and skull that were removed which is the direction the board was coming towards. The dude with khakis, and a black hoody with a white t shirt hanging below the hoodie ran towards the scuffle with his board, punched him on the ground, swung his board at his head, and then punched him one more time before he fell over and his crew was holding him back.

I've been googling on the subject of head and brain injury and a Traumatic Brain Injury can be caused by a fall, but I'm not buying it based off of the victim's injury that it was only caused by falling back and hitting his head. I think it was a combination of punches, the board, and falling backwards. Falling abruptly and hitting your head happens to people everyday, just think of people slipping on ice. They don't have to be rushed to the hospital, induced into a coma, and have their skull removed to remove parts of their brain. Instead they have a bump on the head and a concussion, usually. I actually completely forgot I slipped and fell on my head onto concrete when I was maybe 5 and I just threw up everywhere and had a concussion. I'm sure there are other posters on here that have also hit their head and ended up being completely fine.

I fully agree. See my post above as I did go frame by frame. I don't think I'll have time tomorrow but I'll work on making a video of it Tuesday. I should be able to crop it better then that crappy news video video as well. 

heckler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 6170
  • Rep: 475
  • SLAP OG SLAP OG : Been around since SLAP was a mag.
    Bronze Topic Start Bronze Topic Start : Start a topic with over 1,000 replies.
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #601 on: January 06, 2019, 07:16:06 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Filming homeless people is played out as fuck and pretty exploitative.
[close]

What? While filming street people certainly has the *potential* to be exploitative, it is not inherently so. Skateboarding is a street activity and is intertwined with street culture, of which homeless populations are a huge part of. Pretty much every time I skate in an urban environment I interact with street dwellers...it’s just documenting your environment. Christ, Ocean Howell basically wrote his fucking dissertation on the subject.

In fact I would say most of the time skate videos actually function as one of the only mediums in which homeless populations are provided with any visibility whatsoever. You’re talking about basically the most vulnerable and neglected populations which most people don’t even acknowledge as human, whereas skaters constantly talk, share with, and hang out with them on a regular basis.
[close]
What are you talking about? I didn't say anything against interacting, talking with, or sharing space with homeless people. That's obviously a part of street skateboarding - shit, that's a part of living in any metropolitan environment. However, filming them playing a very particular role (and don't kid yourself, it's always a certain role, and it doesn't do a good job at humanizing them) and putting them in your video without their consent to show how "rough" or "street" your environment is a weak move (not to mention a trite skate video cliche). Huge difference.
[close]

Glad you agree all of those things are a part of street skating. If you’re a good filmer, you’re recording all of them and using them in your edits because they are a part of the story and experience. It’s not hard to do and many people do it well.

I can list off more than a dozen examples of skate videos, multiple by GX even*, in which homeless people are in no way shape or form exploited and are rather portrayed positively and integral to the video itself. You’re a good poster and skate nerd, I’m sure you can think of more than I can.

You made a blanket statement and it’s simply not true. Context is absolutely everything.

*(for the record GX also uses them in exploitative manners as well, volleys being the worst)
Not only am I willing to bet/argue that the number of instances of exploiting homeless people in skate videos greatly outnumbers the humanizing moments (like when someone sits down and has a conversation with a homeless person, yeah, that’s fine), but more importantly, I can list off plenty of classic street skating videos that didn’t feature a single homeless person or bum for atmospheric purposes. The issue has a lot of grey areas and is obviously not as morally corrupt as the main topic st hand, but sticking a clip of a homeless person in a video is beyond played out. If EE3 and Static II didn’t need any bums to convey a “street” environment, I’m hard-pressed to think of a reason any filmer would.
Ha SLAP's resident libtard and NY pro cocksucker.

robertson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
  • Rep: -8
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #602 on: January 06, 2019, 07:43:07 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
No doubt. I agree with you 100% anyone with a moral compass would agree. I'm suggesting a conversation as to what is and isn't okay regarding street skateboarding. Some climbers don't believe in using bolts, do we believe in cutting off knobs or kinks?, interacting with security guards?. Most climbers wouldn't take a route if it was detrimental to the surrounding (public) land, as skateboarders should we take a destructive route on private (at least after we have gotten asked to leave) property. When is it okay to bondo a crack, cut a kink, etc.?

I think we need to recognize for better or for worse we belong to a larger community.
[close]
I don't know what your big moral dilemma is here but personal injury and property damage aren't even in the same ballpark. You want magazines to blackball skaters for using bondo on a crack?

Let's just not injure or kill anybody and leave it at that... if someone cuts your rail that you own then you can take them to small claims court.
[close]

Maybe? Climbers and through hikers do hold other participants to strict regulations regarding their efforts. Don't pick up your trash, plant a bolt, etc...doesn't count. There is something to be said about NOT modifying a spot to make it "easier".  Not injuring or killing anyone should go without question.
I climb outdoors a lot and while there is a loose code of ethics, there is no one there to enforce it. You might be known as a kook for violating such ethics, but that’s about it. It’s similar to street skating. I know my city has a loose code of ethics among the locals.  But no one can really enforce anything. 
What happened in this incident comes down to bad choices. There are already rules(and ethics) against what happened, but that didn’t stop it. It’s a bad thing that happened, and everyone involved is now paying some sort of price for it. 

Get the strap

  • Guest
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #603 on: January 06, 2019, 07:51:10 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
the video:

I see an altercation (not clear who started it)

security guard falls/gets pushed down 1st time

he gets back up and rushes the skateboarders

then he gets pushed/ hit/ falls down 2nd time and appears to hit his head, stops moving


anybody see anything different?
[close]

I re-watched it today and that's what I see as well.  Well he got punched the first time he fell, maybe trying to get back up?  Otherwise yeah.  He got up rushed em, got hit, fell and hit head and that's what effed him up was the concrete. 

I have seen much worse beatdowns at punk shows in the 80's, I think the issue is he hit his head on the concrete. 

Some FSU dude knocked someone out with one punch, guy fell hit head on concrete and FSU dude got convicted of murder.  If I remember correctly that is.
[close]

Maybe someone should take still frames of the skateboard being violently flung towards the right side of his head where moments later he falls backwards and doesn't try to break his fall or move because he's out cold before he falls down. Notice how the picture after his surgery it was the right side of his brain and skull that were removed which is the direction the board was coming towards. The dude with khakis, and a black hoody with a white t shirt hanging below the hoodie ran towards the scuffle with his board, punched him on the ground, swung his board at his head, and then punched him one more time before he fell over and his crew was holding him back.

I've been googling on the subject of head and brain injury and a Traumatic Brain Injury can be caused by a fall, but I'm not buying it based off of the victim's injury that it was only caused by falling back and hitting his head. I think it was a combination of punches, the board, and falling backwards. Falling abruptly and hitting your head happens to people everyday, just think of people slipping on ice. They don't have to be rushed to the hospital, induced into a coma, and have their skull removed to remove parts of their brain. Instead they have a bump on the head and a concussion, usually. I actually completely forgot I slipped and fell on my head onto concrete when I was maybe 5 and I just threw up everywhere and had a concussion. I'm sure there are other posters on here that have also hit their head and ended up being completely fine.
[close]

That would be helpful for my blind ass to see that part. 

On the other stuff, you can definitely die from slamming your head on concrete, we are all built different and different angles and etc. 

6 feet = 13 mph for example.

Yeah but human evolution has a lot to do with the strength of our skull and if our skulls weren't strong enough to protect our brains then you can forget about human beings all together. But I do agree with you it is possible for someone to fall backwards, i.e. slip in the shower and die, especially with the elderly and the victim is nearing that age bracket, so it's possible...except there is footage of him being beat up and the board being swung at his head, which apparently the defense lawyer is saying the board didn't hit the victim and his injury was caused by the fall. I guess we will find out soon enough. Anybody know when Jesse goes back to court?

I saw your post behindthelense, look forward to seeing it.

planman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 4011
  • Rep: 371
  • Morpheus drinking a 40 in a death basket
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #604 on: January 06, 2019, 08:01:20 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Filming homeless people is played out as fuck and pretty exploitative.
[close]

What? While filming street people certainly has the *potential* to be exploitative, it is not inherently so. Skateboarding is a street activity and is intertwined with street culture, of which homeless populations are a huge part of. Pretty much every time I skate in an urban environment I interact with street dwellers...it’s just documenting your environment. Christ, Ocean Howell basically wrote his fucking dissertation on the subject.

In fact I would say most of the time skate videos actually function as one of the only mediums in which homeless populations are provided with any visibility whatsoever. You’re talking about basically the most vulnerable and neglected populations which most people don’t even acknowledge as human, whereas skaters constantly talk, share with, and hang out with them on a regular basis.
[close]
What are you talking about? I didn't say anything against interacting, talking with, or sharing space with homeless people. That's obviously a part of street skateboarding - shit, that's a part of living in any metropolitan environment. However, filming them playing a very particular role (and don't kid yourself, it's always a certain role, and it doesn't do a good job at humanizing them) and putting them in your video without their consent to show how "rough" or "street" your environment is a weak move (not to mention a trite skate video cliche). Huge difference.
[close]

Glad you agree all of those things are a part of street skating. If you’re a good filmer, you’re recording all of them and using them in your edits because they are a part of the story and experience. It’s not hard to do and many people do it well.

I can list off more than a dozen examples of skate videos, multiple by GX even*, in which homeless people are in no way shape or form exploited and are rather portrayed positively and integral to the video itself. You’re a good poster and skate nerd, I’m sure you can think of more than I can.

You made a blanket statement and it’s simply not true. Context is absolutely everything.

*(for the record GX also uses them in exploitative manners as well, volleys being the worst)
[close]
Not only am I willing to bet/argue that the number of instances of exploiting homeless people in skate videos greatly outnumbers the humanizing moments (like when someone sits down and has a conversation with a homeless person, yeah, that’s fine), but more importantly, I can list off plenty of classic street skating videos that didn’t feature a single homeless person or bum for atmospheric purposes. The issue has a lot of grey areas and is obviously not as morally corrupt as the main topic st hand, but sticking a clip of a homeless person in a video is beyond played out. If EE3 and Static II didn’t need any bums to convey a “street” environment, I’m hard-pressed to think of a reason any filmer would.
I'm guessing you guys have slightly differing definitions of what exploitation entails. It can definitely be a thin line but I think for the most part, simply filming a homeless person when you're out getting clips, especially if they're talking to you, isn't exploiting anyone. It's literally just the reality of whatever area you happening to be skating and filming in that day.

I saw your mom do a ollie to cooch drop straight down the big black pole, it was gnarly. she defiantly shut that shit down

mattchew

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 4397
  • Rep: 356
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #605 on: January 06, 2019, 08:11:35 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Filming homeless people is played out as fuck and pretty exploitative.
[close]

What? While filming street people certainly has the *potential* to be exploitative, it is not inherently so. Skateboarding is a street activity and is intertwined with street culture, of which homeless populations are a huge part of. Pretty much every time I skate in an urban environment I interact with street dwellers...it’s just documenting your environment. Christ, Ocean Howell basically wrote his fucking dissertation on the subject.

In fact I would say most of the time skate videos actually function as one of the only mediums in which homeless populations are provided with any visibility whatsoever. You’re talking about basically the most vulnerable and neglected populations which most people don’t even acknowledge as human, whereas skaters constantly talk, share with, and hang out with them on a regular basis.
[close]
What are you talking about? I didn't say anything against interacting, talking with, or sharing space with homeless people. That's obviously a part of street skateboarding - shit, that's a part of living in any metropolitan environment. However, filming them playing a very particular role (and don't kid yourself, it's always a certain role, and it doesn't do a good job at humanizing them) and putting them in your video without their consent to show how "rough" or "street" your environment is a weak move (not to mention a trite skate video cliche). Huge difference.
[close]

Glad you agree all of those things are a part of street skating. If you’re a good filmer, you’re recording all of them and using them in your edits because they are a part of the story and experience. It’s not hard to do and many people do it well.

I can list off more than a dozen examples of skate videos, multiple by GX even*, in which homeless people are in no way shape or form exploited and are rather portrayed positively and integral to the video itself. You’re a good poster and skate nerd, I’m sure you can think of more than I can.

You made a blanket statement and it’s simply not true. Context is absolutely everything.

*(for the record GX also uses them in exploitative manners as well, volleys being the worst)
[close]
Not only am I willing to bet/argue that the number of instances of exploiting homeless people in skate videos greatly outnumbers the humanizing moments (like when someone sits down and has a conversation with a homeless person, yeah, that’s fine), but more importantly, I can list off plenty of classic street skating videos that didn’t feature a single homeless person or bum for atmospheric purposes. The issue has a lot of grey areas and is obviously not as morally corrupt as the main topic st hand, but sticking a clip of a homeless person in a video is beyond played out. If EE3 and Static II didn’t need any bums to convey a “street” environment, I’m hard-pressed to think of a reason any filmer would.
[close]
I'm guessing you guys have slightly differing definitions of what exploitation entails. It can definitely be a thin line but I think for the most part, simply filming a homeless person when you're out getting clips, especially if they're talking to you, isn't exploiting anyone. It's literally just the reality of whatever area you happening to be skating and filming in that day.

That and for some reason heckler can’t cop to the fact that he made a huge generalization/blanket statement.

Not arguing that it’s played out or that there are far greater negative examples—of course there are. I’m pointing out your saying that it’s inherently exploitative to film interactions with street people. It’s not. And just because some videos you love didn’t use them, doesn’t negate the fact that plenty have and it’s improved the video.

This is all so off topic now.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 08:15:31 PM by mattchew »
P R E P A R E  T O  T I M E C O D E

hamisonrye

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Rep: -17
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #606 on: January 06, 2019, 08:16:08 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
the video:

I see an altercation (not clear who started it)

security guard falls/gets pushed down 1st time

he gets back up and rushes the skateboarders

then he gets pushed/ hit/ falls down 2nd time and appears to hit his head, stops moving


anybody see anything different?
[close]

I re-watched it today and that's what I see as well.  Well he got punched the first time he fell, maybe trying to get back up?  Otherwise yeah.  He got up rushed em, got hit, fell and hit head and that's what effed him up was the concrete. 

I have seen much worse beatdowns at punk shows in the 80's, I think the issue is he hit his head on the concrete. 

Some FSU dude knocked someone out with one punch, guy fell hit head on concrete and FSU dude got convicted of murder.  If I remember correctly that is.
[close]

Maybe someone should take still frames of the skateboard being violently flung towards the right side of his head where moments later he falls backwards and doesn't try to break his fall or move because he's out cold before he falls down. Notice how the picture after his surgery it was the right side of his brain and skull that were removed which is the direction the board was coming towards. The dude with khakis, and a black hoody with a white t shirt hanging below the hoodie ran towards the scuffle with his board, punched him on the ground, swung his board at his head, and then punched him one more time before he fell over and his crew was holding him back.

I've been googling on the subject of head and brain injury and a Traumatic Brain Injury can be caused by a fall, but I'm not buying it based off of the victim's injury that it was only caused by falling back and hitting his head. I think it was a combination of punches, the board, and falling backwards. Falling abruptly and hitting your head happens to people everyday, just think of people slipping on ice. They don't have to be rushed to the hospital, induced into a coma, and have their skull removed to remove parts of their brain. Instead they have a bump on the head and a concussion, usually. I actually completely forgot I slipped and fell on my head onto concrete when I was maybe 5 and I just threw up everywhere and had a concussion. I'm sure there are other posters on here that have also hit their head and ended up being completely fine.
[close]

That would be helpful for my blind ass to see that part. 

On the other stuff, you can definitely die from slamming your head on concrete, we are all built different and different angles and etc. 

6 feet = 13 mph for example.
[close]

Yeah but human evolution has a lot to do with the strength of our skull and if our skulls weren't strong enough to protect our brains then you can forget about human beings all together. But I do agree with you it is possible for someone to fall backwards, i.e. slip in the shower and die, especially with the elderly and the victim is nearing that age bracket, so it's possible...except there is footage of him being beat up and the board being swung at his head, which apparently the defense lawyer is saying the board didn't hit the victim and his injury was caused by the fall. I guess we will find out soon enough. Anybody know when Jesse goes back to court?

I saw your post behindthelense, look forward to seeing it.

Understood, but I am not going to watch again to try and sort when a skateboard was swung as a weapon, since I couldn't see it on all my other views. 

I will say if you tried to take my guitar, you might catch a fucking guitar in the head, so let's put this in perspective. 

Yes though, if you use a something as a weapon and such, you will do time, long and short of it. 

It's awful to say, but hopefully someone does a video with madden style drawings and commentary so we can see the skateboard used in an attack, as my dipshit ass can't see it.

Feel bad for the dude, big time, but I kind of think the concrete is what fucked him up, which makes it more of an accident. Doesn't matter and I know that it doesn't matter if accident or not, dude is going to do some real time for his involvement.   

thebaggy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Rep: -14
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #607 on: January 06, 2019, 08:33:25 PM »
They are all culpable by virtue of sticking around from the beginning; there were many transitional periods throughout the episode where any one of the individuals could have made the right call and backed away, yet instead they made efforts to not only stick around, but to continue assaulting the man. The group dictated the circumstances, therefore becoming accountable for every possible outcome.
Rotate your wheels regularly.

robertson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
  • Rep: -8
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #608 on: January 06, 2019, 08:34:58 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
the video:

I see an altercation (not clear who started it)

security guard falls/gets pushed down 1st time

he gets back up and rushes the skateboarders

then he gets pushed/ hit/ falls down 2nd time and appears to hit his head, stops moving


anybody see anything different?
[close]

I re-watched it today and that's what I see as well.  Well he got punched the first time he fell, maybe trying to get back up?  Otherwise yeah.  He got up rushed em, got hit, fell and hit head and that's what effed him up was the concrete. 

I have seen much worse beatdowns at punk shows in the 80's, I think the issue is he hit his head on the concrete. 

Some FSU dude knocked someone out with one punch, guy fell hit head on concrete and FSU dude got convicted of murder.  If I remember correctly that is.
[close]

Maybe someone should take still frames of the skateboard being violently flung towards the right side of his head where moments later he falls backwards and doesn't try to break his fall or move because he's out cold before he falls down. Notice how the picture after his surgery it was the right side of his brain and skull that were removed which is the direction the board was coming towards. The dude with khakis, and a black hoody with a white t shirt hanging below the hoodie ran towards the scuffle with his board, punched him on the ground, swung his board at his head, and then punched him one more time before he fell over and his crew was holding him back.

I've been googling on the subject of head and brain injury and a Traumatic Brain Injury can be caused by a fall, but I'm not buying it based off of the victim's injury that it was only caused by falling back and hitting his head. I think it was a combination of punches, the board, and falling backwards. Falling abruptly and hitting your head happens to people everyday, just think of people slipping on ice. They don't have to be rushed to the hospital, induced into a coma, and have their skull removed to remove parts of their brain. Instead they have a bump on the head and a concussion, usually. I actually completely forgot I slipped and fell on my head onto concrete when I was maybe 5 and I just threw up everywhere and had a concussion. I'm sure there are other posters on here that have also hit their head and ended up being completely fine.
[close]

That would be helpful for my blind ass to see that part. 

On the other stuff, you can definitely die from slamming your head on concrete, we are all built different and different angles and etc. 

6 feet = 13 mph for example.
[close]

Yeah but human evolution has a lot to do with the strength of our skull and if our skulls weren't strong enough to protect our brains then you can forget about human beings all together. But I do agree with you it is possible for someone to fall backwards, i.e. slip in the shower and die, especially with the elderly and the victim is nearing that age bracket, so it's possible...except there is footage of him being beat up and the board being swung at his head, which apparently the defense lawyer is saying the board didn't hit the victim and his injury was caused by the fall. I guess we will find out soon enough. Anybody know when Jesse goes back to court?

I saw your post behindthelense, look forward to seeing it.
A 38 year old man just died from being punched and falling back and hitting his head in a dog park. It happens more than you would think.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=undefined&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjcpISD69rfAhUk6IMKHdAcBK0QzPwBCAM&url=https%3A%2F%2F6abc.com%2Fman-dies-after-being-punched-in-south-philadelphia-park%2F5023731%2F&psig=AOvVaw2pBuh0nSoJrD7IFG_kPkOl&ust=1546921830942727


BehindTheLens

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Rep: 0
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #609 on: January 06, 2019, 09:29:50 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
the video:

I see an altercation (not clear who started it)

security guard falls/gets pushed down 1st time

he gets back up and rushes the skateboarders

then he gets pushed/ hit/ falls down 2nd time and appears to hit his head, stops moving


anybody see anything different?
[close]

I re-watched it today and that's what I see as well.  Well he got punched the first time he fell, maybe trying to get back up?  Otherwise yeah.  He got up rushed em, got hit, fell and hit head and that's what effed him up was the concrete. 

I have seen much worse beatdowns at punk shows in the 80's, I think the issue is he hit his head on the concrete. 

Some FSU dude knocked someone out with one punch, guy fell hit head on concrete and FSU dude got convicted of murder.  If I remember correctly that is.
[close]

Maybe someone should take still frames of the skateboard being violently flung towards the right side of his head where moments later he falls backwards and doesn't try to break his fall or move because he's out cold before he falls down. Notice how the picture after his surgery it was the right side of his brain and skull that were removed which is the direction the board was coming towards. The dude with khakis, and a black hoody with a white t shirt hanging below the hoodie ran towards the scuffle with his board, punched him on the ground, swung his board at his head, and then punched him one more time before he fell over and his crew was holding him back.

I've been googling on the subject of head and brain injury and a Traumatic Brain Injury can be caused by a fall, but I'm not buying it based off of the victim's injury that it was only caused by falling back and hitting his head. I think it was a combination of punches, the board, and falling backwards. Falling abruptly and hitting your head happens to people everyday, just think of people slipping on ice. They don't have to be rushed to the hospital, induced into a coma, and have their skull removed to remove parts of their brain. Instead they have a bump on the head and a concussion, usually. I actually completely forgot I slipped and fell on my head onto concrete when I was maybe 5 and I just threw up everywhere and had a concussion. I'm sure there are other posters on here that have also hit their head and ended up being completely fine.
[close]

That would be helpful for my blind ass to see that part. 

On the other stuff, you can definitely die from slamming your head on concrete, we are all built different and different angles and etc. 

6 feet = 13 mph for example.
[close]

Yeah but human evolution has a lot to do with the strength of our skull and if our skulls weren't strong enough to protect our brains then you can forget about human beings all together. But I do agree with you it is possible for someone to fall backwards, i.e. slip in the shower and die, especially with the elderly and the victim is nearing that age bracket, so it's possible...except there is footage of him being beat up and the board being swung at his head, which apparently the defense lawyer is saying the board didn't hit the victim and his injury was caused by the fall. I guess we will find out soon enough. Anybody know when Jesse goes back to court?

I saw your post behindthelense, look forward to seeing it.
[close]

Understood, but I am not going to watch again to try and sort when a skateboard was swung as a weapon, since I couldn't see it on all my other views. 

I will say if you tried to take my guitar, you might catch a fucking guitar in the head, so let's put this in perspective. 

Yes though, if you use a something as a weapon and such, you will do time, long and short of it. 

It's awful to say, but hopefully someone does a video with madden style drawings and commentary so we can see the skateboard used in an attack, as my dipshit ass can't see it.

Feel bad for the dude, big time, but I kind of think the concrete is what fucked him up, which makes it more of an accident. Doesn't matter and I know that it doesn't matter if accident or not, dude is going to do some real time for his involvement.

Not trying to sound like a kook here but they were skating private property and I'm sure were asked to leave. If you  were just minding your own business walking down the street or playing a show and someone tries to jack your guitar that's a completely different situation as that person is doing a criminal act to begin with. In this case the skaters are technically already doing a criminal act by skating this spot before the said incident. By no means can you look at this in the same perspective. And I type this as I am surrounded by $10,000 worth of guitars in my basement that I treat like they are my children.

hamisonrye

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Rep: -17
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #610 on: January 06, 2019, 09:37:26 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
the video:

I see an altercation (not clear who started it)

security guard falls/gets pushed down 1st time

he gets back up and rushes the skateboarders

then he gets pushed/ hit/ falls down 2nd time and appears to hit his head, stops moving


anybody see anything different?
[close]

I re-watched it today and that's what I see as well.  Well he got punched the first time he fell, maybe trying to get back up?  Otherwise yeah.  He got up rushed em, got hit, fell and hit head and that's what effed him up was the concrete. 

I have seen much worse beatdowns at punk shows in the 80's, I think the issue is he hit his head on the concrete. 

Some FSU dude knocked someone out with one punch, guy fell hit head on concrete and FSU dude got convicted of murder.  If I remember correctly that is.
[close]

Maybe someone should take still frames of the skateboard being violently flung towards the right side of his head where moments later he falls backwards and doesn't try to break his fall or move because he's out cold before he falls down. Notice how the picture after his surgery it was the right side of his brain and skull that were removed which is the direction the board was coming towards. The dude with khakis, and a black hoody with a white t shirt hanging below the hoodie ran towards the scuffle with his board, punched him on the ground, swung his board at his head, and then punched him one more time before he fell over and his crew was holding him back.

I've been googling on the subject of head and brain injury and a Traumatic Brain Injury can be caused by a fall, but I'm not buying it based off of the victim's injury that it was only caused by falling back and hitting his head. I think it was a combination of punches, the board, and falling backwards. Falling abruptly and hitting your head happens to people everyday, just think of people slipping on ice. They don't have to be rushed to the hospital, induced into a coma, and have their skull removed to remove parts of their brain. Instead they have a bump on the head and a concussion, usually. I actually completely forgot I slipped and fell on my head onto concrete when I was maybe 5 and I just threw up everywhere and had a concussion. I'm sure there are other posters on here that have also hit their head and ended up being completely fine.
[close]

That would be helpful for my blind ass to see that part. 

On the other stuff, you can definitely die from slamming your head on concrete, we are all built different and different angles and etc. 

6 feet = 13 mph for example.
[close]

Yeah but human evolution has a lot to do with the strength of our skull and if our skulls weren't strong enough to protect our brains then you can forget about human beings all together. But I do agree with you it is possible for someone to fall backwards, i.e. slip in the shower and die, especially with the elderly and the victim is nearing that age bracket, so it's possible...except there is footage of him being beat up and the board being swung at his head, which apparently the defense lawyer is saying the board didn't hit the victim and his injury was caused by the fall. I guess we will find out soon enough. Anybody know when Jesse goes back to court?

I saw your post behindthelense, look forward to seeing it.
[close]

Understood, but I am not going to watch again to try and sort when a skateboard was swung as a weapon, since I couldn't see it on all my other views. 

I will say if you tried to take my guitar, you might catch a fucking guitar in the head, so let's put this in perspective. 

Yes though, if you use a something as a weapon and such, you will do time, long and short of it. 

It's awful to say, but hopefully someone does a video with madden style drawings and commentary so we can see the skateboard used in an attack, as my dipshit ass can't see it.

Feel bad for the dude, big time, but I kind of think the concrete is what fucked him up, which makes it more of an accident. Doesn't matter and I know that it doesn't matter if accident or not, dude is going to do some real time for his involvement.
[close]

Not trying to sound like a kook here but they were skating private property and I'm sure were asked to leave. If you  were just minding your own business walking down the street or playing a show and someone tries to jack your guitar that's a completely different situation as that person is doing a criminal act to begin with. In this case the skaters are technically already doing a criminal act by skating this spot before the said incident. By no means can you look at this in the same perspective. And I type this as I am surrounded by $10,000 worth of guitars in my basement that I treat like they are my children.

I'm not going to lie and say I do it, but what if you were busking? It could literally be the exact same perspective at that point. 

BehindTheLens

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Rep: 0
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #611 on: January 06, 2019, 09:46:43 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
the video:

I see an altercation (not clear who started it)

security guard falls/gets pushed down 1st time

he gets back up and rushes the skateboarders

then he gets pushed/ hit/ falls down 2nd time and appears to hit his head, stops moving


anybody see anything different?
[close]

I re-watched it today and that's what I see as well.  Well he got punched the first time he fell, maybe trying to get back up?  Otherwise yeah.  He got up rushed em, got hit, fell and hit head and that's what effed him up was the concrete. 

I have seen much worse beatdowns at punk shows in the 80's, I think the issue is he hit his head on the concrete. 

Some FSU dude knocked someone out with one punch, guy fell hit head on concrete and FSU dude got convicted of murder.  If I remember correctly that is.
[close]

Maybe someone should take still frames of the skateboard being violently flung towards the right side of his head where moments later he falls backwards and doesn't try to break his fall or move because he's out cold before he falls down. Notice how the picture after his surgery it was the right side of his brain and skull that were removed which is the direction the board was coming towards. The dude with khakis, and a black hoody with a white t shirt hanging below the hoodie ran towards the scuffle with his board, punched him on the ground, swung his board at his head, and then punched him one more time before he fell over and his crew was holding him back.

I've been googling on the subject of head and brain injury and a Traumatic Brain Injury can be caused by a fall, but I'm not buying it based off of the victim's injury that it was only caused by falling back and hitting his head. I think it was a combination of punches, the board, and falling backwards. Falling abruptly and hitting your head happens to people everyday, just think of people slipping on ice. They don't have to be rushed to the hospital, induced into a coma, and have their skull removed to remove parts of their brain. Instead they have a bump on the head and a concussion, usually. I actually completely forgot I slipped and fell on my head onto concrete when I was maybe 5 and I just threw up everywhere and had a concussion. I'm sure there are other posters on here that have also hit their head and ended up being completely fine.
[close]

That would be helpful for my blind ass to see that part. 

On the other stuff, you can definitely die from slamming your head on concrete, we are all built different and different angles and etc. 

6 feet = 13 mph for example.
[close]

Yeah but human evolution has a lot to do with the strength of our skull and if our skulls weren't strong enough to protect our brains then you can forget about human beings all together. But I do agree with you it is possible for someone to fall backwards, i.e. slip in the shower and die, especially with the elderly and the victim is nearing that age bracket, so it's possible...except there is footage of him being beat up and the board being swung at his head, which apparently the defense lawyer is saying the board didn't hit the victim and his injury was caused by the fall. I guess we will find out soon enough. Anybody know when Jesse goes back to court?

I saw your post behindthelense, look forward to seeing it.
[close]

Understood, but I am not going to watch again to try and sort when a skateboard was swung as a weapon, since I couldn't see it on all my other views. 

I will say if you tried to take my guitar, you might catch a fucking guitar in the head, so let's put this in perspective. 

Yes though, if you use a something as a weapon and such, you will do time, long and short of it. 

It's awful to say, but hopefully someone does a video with madden style drawings and commentary so we can see the skateboard used in an attack, as my dipshit ass can't see it.

Feel bad for the dude, big time, but I kind of think the concrete is what fucked him up, which makes it more of an accident. Doesn't matter and I know that it doesn't matter if accident or not, dude is going to do some real time for his involvement.
[close]

Not trying to sound like a kook here but they were skating private property and I'm sure were asked to leave. If you  were just minding your own business walking down the street or playing a show and someone tries to jack your guitar that's a completely different situation as that person is doing a criminal act to begin with. In this case the skaters are technically already doing a criminal act by skating this spot before the said incident. By no means can you look at this in the same perspective. And I type this as I am surrounded by $10,000 worth of guitars in my basement that I treat like they are my children.
[close]

I'm not going to lie and say I do it, but what if you were busking? It could literally be the exact same perspective at that point.

I don't do it either but that's a fair point that didn't cross my mind. I'm not 100% sure on the legality of it everywhere but I do have a few friends who busk on occasion around here (boston area) and no authorities bother them. However I know if they were asked to move along they would do so without a violent confrontation. But it's probably not a fair comparison anyways because the general public and authority look at skateboarding a spot differently then someone playing guitar on a sidewalk.

Rocuronium

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 1552
  • Rep: 48
  • SLAP OG SLAP OG : Been around since SLAP was a mag.
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #612 on: January 06, 2019, 10:16:34 PM »
This whole situation is fucked and what really bothers me is how they all ran off so quick after bashing this dudes head in. I filmed the surveillance on my phone in slow mo from my computer and watched it frame by frame. A few things I noticed.

1.) It does look like the security guard lunges/takes a kick first but we also don't have much footage before that moment.

2.) Someone clearly takes a shot at his head with a punch when he is down on the ground that first time.

3.) He gets back up and looks to approach the group of skaters again which is dumb, but I get it after someone took a shot at his dome. He's probably not thinking to straight at this point (fight or flight).

4.) The video gets really hard to depict here due to everyone standing so close together, but its pretty clear at some point a skateboard comes flying in pretty quick by the security guards head. Whether it hit him or not is impossible to tell, but it seems likely.

5.) He falls straight back and hits his head on the concrete, but it's pretty much impossible to tell if it was the skateboard or fall that caused the traumatic injury.

If I have time I will edit some footage together with frame by frame shots this week. But as I see it right now these guys can go fuck themselves and deserve to do some time.

The hits to the head are not proportional to the injury. I'm guessing he was on blood thinners and that exacerbated what would have been a minor injury.

I agree with that this deplorable situation reflects badly on all of us and I think it would be a beautiful symbolic gesture if the skate community contributed to a gofundme.
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/236x/59/48/b8/5948b85016497192c5b5df8b620f75db.jpg[img]

DGKALIS

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 981
  • Rep: 526
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #613 on: January 06, 2019, 11:04:35 PM »
Damen Way was breaking up a fight. Got punched fell and hit his head. Paralyzed the entire left? Side of his body.

Close friend of mine’s fiancé was breaking up a fight. Punched in the face. Fell back hit his head and died a few years back.

At a club and a dude got punched. Hit his head on a bar stool. Died.

Happens quite a bit.

Bummer this went down. Cops in SF and other cities have really eased back on enforcing skating. Years ago is was crazy.
I never gave security a hard time because I never wanted to deal with the cops. (Been locked up a dozen times over night for skating, punched in the face while cuffed to the bench in SF Chinatown station, dropped off at the Robert Taylor homes South side Chi by cops, chased through CHI, SF, many times. )
Some cities like LA now have purple suit guys on bikes that are the buffer between security and cops. When I’m out with the young dudes... they seriously have no respect for any type of authority.
It trips me out. I can’t do it. I have to leave, I’ll try to slip the guard some cash for a few tries, but I can’t deliberately skate in front of them. It’s just what I’m used to. Never did I like spending the nights in jail. (Even though most cases were dropped).
What happened at Black Rock, in my opinion is unfortunate and just bad decision making. Different generations deal with different circumstances. In my SF days I had too much respect for the people who were from SF and laid the foundation. I personally would never blow up a spot like that. Nor did I want my ass beat or clumped up charges.
Maybe this situation changes things... maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it makes cats think about certain consequences, and what’s important at the end of the day.... which to me is.... coming home to my kids, not getting too injured so I can continue to do what I love, and not bite the hand that feeds me. No trick is worth risking all the above.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 11:07:11 PM by DGKALIS »

thebaggy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Rep: -14
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #614 on: January 06, 2019, 11:35:46 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
So is the one kid only getting in trouble?
[close]

I would assume all of them will eventually face some sort of charge. They all willingly left the man to die in the street.
[close]
No, perfectly legal.
http://www.cnn.com/2018/06/26/us/florida-teens-no-charges-drowning-man/index.html


Your wrong. Those shit heads filming that video were not responsible for that outcome. In other words, they did not place that man in the water. These GX shit heads are responsible for this outcome. They are culpable by virtue of not leaving the property when asked to. They escalated the conflict to assault with a deadly weapon. Them leaving the scene can be used in court to prove malice aforethought, culpable negligence etc. Apples to oranges.
Rotate your wheels regularly.

dakotalofton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Rep: -21
  • Nothing I say you will like
    • YOUTUBE avatar image
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #615 on: January 06, 2019, 11:39:09 PM »
its just not worth your 12 dollars a hour
Quote
****IF YOU DON'T FUCK WITH BRONZE56K YOU WHACK AS FUCK****

CHONGO

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 4123
  • Rep: 28
    • tumblr avatar image
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #616 on: January 06, 2019, 11:45:36 PM »
damn. This thread keeps getting gnarly and gnarlier

DannyDee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 6208
  • Rep: 247
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #617 on: January 07, 2019, 12:04:20 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
the video:

I see an altercation (not clear who started it)

security guard falls/gets pushed down 1st time

he gets back up and rushes the skateboarders

then he gets pushed/ hit/ falls down 2nd time and appears to hit his head, stops moving


anybody see anything different?
[close]

I re-watched it today and that's what I see as well.  Well he got punched the first time he fell, maybe trying to get back up?  Otherwise yeah.  He got up rushed em, got hit, fell and hit head and that's what effed him up was the concrete. 

I have seen much worse beatdowns at punk shows in the 80's, I think the issue is he hit his head on the concrete. 

Some FSU dude knocked someone out with one punch, guy fell hit head on concrete and FSU dude got convicted of murder.  If I remember correctly that is.
[close]

Maybe someone should take still frames of the skateboard being violently flung towards the right side of his head where moments later he falls backwards and doesn't try to break his fall or move because he's out cold before he falls down. Notice how the picture after his surgery it was the right side of his brain and skull that were removed which is the direction the board was coming towards. The dude with khakis, and a black hoody with a white t shirt hanging below the hoodie ran towards the scuffle with his board, punched him on the ground, swung his board at his head, and then punched him one more time before he fell over and his crew was holding him back.

I've been googling on the subject of head and brain injury and a Traumatic Brain Injury can be caused by a fall, but I'm not buying it based off of the victim's injury that it was only caused by falling back and hitting his head. I think it was a combination of punches, the board, and falling backwards. Falling abruptly and hitting your head happens to people everyday, just think of people slipping on ice. They don't have to be rushed to the hospital, induced into a coma, and have their skull removed to remove parts of their brain. Instead they have a bump on the head and a concussion, usually. I actually completely forgot I slipped and fell on my head onto concrete when I was maybe 5 and I just threw up everywhere and had a concussion. I'm sure there are other posters on here that have also hit their head and ended up being completely fine.
[close]

That would be helpful for my blind ass to see that part. 

On the other stuff, you can definitely die from slamming your head on concrete, we are all built different and different angles and etc. 

6 feet = 13 mph for example.
[close]

Yeah but human evolution has a lot to do with the strength of our skull and if our skulls weren't strong enough to protect our brains then you can forget about human beings all together. But I do agree with you it is possible for someone to fall backwards, i.e. slip in the shower and die, especially with the elderly and the victim is nearing that age bracket, so it's possible...except there is footage of him being beat up and the board being swung at his head, which apparently the defense lawyer is saying the board didn't hit the victim and his injury was caused by the fall. I guess we will find out soon enough. Anybody know when Jesse goes back to court?

I saw your post behindthelense, look forward to seeing it.
[close]

Understood, but I am not going to watch again to try and sort when a skateboard was swung as a weapon, since I couldn't see it on all my other views. 

I will say if you tried to take my guitar, you might catch a fucking guitar in the head, so let's put this in perspective. 

Yes though, if you use a something as a weapon and such, you will do time, long and short of it. 

It's awful to say, but hopefully someone does a video with madden style drawings and commentary so we can see the skateboard used in an attack, as my dipshit ass can't see it.

Feel bad for the dude, big time, but I kind of think the concrete is what fucked him up, which makes it more of an accident. Doesn't matter and I know that it doesn't matter if accident or not, dude is going to do some real time for his involvement.
[close]

Not trying to sound like a kook here but they were skating private property and I'm sure were asked to leave. If you  were just minding your own business walking down the street or playing a show and someone tries to jack your guitar that's a completely different situation as that person is doing a criminal act to begin with. In this case the skaters are technically already doing a criminal act by skating this spot before the said incident. By no means can you look at this in the same perspective. And I type this as I am surrounded by $10,000 worth of guitars in my basement that I treat like they are my children.
[close]

I'm not going to lie and say I do it, but what if you were busking? It could literally be the exact same perspective at that point.
If you are busking and refuse to move, they probably call the cops on you. The GX guys were physically removing barricades being put up and stopping the dude from doing his job. If he tried to grab a board, it wasn't until after a significant amount of provocation. Do you think he should have hit one of these kids with a metal barricade over the head because they were grabbing his companies property? Or dropped one on their heads when they were down? Because that's basically the equivalent you are preaching, that if someone is taking your property, you can hit them with it.

It doesn't matter if it was only a small beat down or whatever. What matters is the fucking consequences and in this case, it's a dude whose life is now severely altered. Its why you aren't violent with people unless you need to save your own life or are threatened with significant bodly harm.

Mystical Leader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 1292
  • Rep: -130
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #618 on: January 07, 2019, 01:11:23 AM »
Seriously some of you posters...

All of this could have been easily avoided, there is never a need to get physical over skateboarding...

fucked up how some of you can justify GX1000 crews actions.. They were trespassing, ganged up on a security guard,  beat up him and fled to scene how can you say they ain't the blame??

Funny how skaters seem to think skating/destroying private property is okay.. I can't think of any other hobby that thinks the same way..

Also does anyone know what trick they were filming? If it was a long backlip I think the guard might at fault

heckler

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 6170
  • Rep: 475
  • SLAP OG SLAP OG : Been around since SLAP was a mag.
    Bronze Topic Start Bronze Topic Start : Start a topic with over 1,000 replies.
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #619 on: January 07, 2019, 05:40:36 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Filming homeless people is played out as fuck and pretty exploitative.
[close]

What? While filming street people certainly has the *potential* to be exploitative, it is not inherently so. Skateboarding is a street activity and is intertwined with street culture, of which homeless populations are a huge part of. Pretty much every time I skate in an urban environment I interact with street dwellers...it’s just documenting your environment. Christ, Ocean Howell basically wrote his fucking dissertation on the subject.

In fact I would say most of the time skate videos actually function as one of the only mediums in which homeless populations are provided with any visibility whatsoever. You’re talking about basically the most vulnerable and neglected populations which most people don’t even acknowledge as human, whereas skaters constantly talk, share with, and hang out with them on a regular basis.
[close]
What are you talking about? I didn't say anything against interacting, talking with, or sharing space with homeless people. That's obviously a part of street skateboarding - shit, that's a part of living in any metropolitan environment. However, filming them playing a very particular role (and don't kid yourself, it's always a certain role, and it doesn't do a good job at humanizing them) and putting them in your video without their consent to show how "rough" or "street" your environment is a weak move (not to mention a trite skate video cliche). Huge difference.
[close]

Glad you agree all of those things are a part of street skating. If you’re a good filmer, you’re recording all of them and using them in your edits because they are a part of the story and experience. It’s not hard to do and many people do it well.

I can list off more than a dozen examples of skate videos, multiple by GX even*, in which homeless people are in no way shape or form exploited and are rather portrayed positively and integral to the video itself. You’re a good poster and skate nerd, I’m sure you can think of more than I can.

You made a blanket statement and it’s simply not true. Context is absolutely everything.

*(for the record GX also uses them in exploitative manners as well, volleys being the worst)
[close]
Not only am I willing to bet/argue that the number of instances of exploiting homeless people in skate videos greatly outnumbers the humanizing moments (like when someone sits down and has a conversation with a homeless person, yeah, that’s fine), but more importantly, I can list off plenty of classic street skating videos that didn’t feature a single homeless person or bum for atmospheric purposes. The issue has a lot of grey areas and is obviously not as morally corrupt as the main topic st hand, but sticking a clip of a homeless person in a video is beyond played out. If EE3 and Static II didn’t need any bums to convey a “street” environment, I’m hard-pressed to think of a reason any filmer would.
[close]
I'm guessing you guys have slightly differing definitions of what exploitation entails. It can definitely be a thin line but I think for the most part, simply filming a homeless person when you're out getting clips, especially if they're talking to you, isn't exploiting anyone. It's literally just the reality of whatever area you happening to be skating and filming in that day.
[close]

That and for some reason heckler can’t cop to the fact that he made a huge generalization/blanket statement.

Not arguing that it’s played out or that there are far greater negative examples—of course there are. I’m pointing out your saying that it’s inherently exploitative to film interactions with street people. It’s not. And just because some videos you love didn’t use them, doesn’t negate the fact that plenty have and it’s improved the video.

This is all so off topic now.
Planman, I actually pointed out the differentiation in intent in bold. And you're right, it depends on your definition of exploitative, but I think it could be argued that filming someone regardless of participation or intent and putting them in your video and not compensating them in some way (not saying compensation doesn't happen) is exploitative.

Mattchew, you're clearly grasping at straws. Not only did you approach me with a faux-academic response to an argument you made up for me, but I outlined and fine-tuned my stance in follow-up posts and you just keep referring to my initial, one sentence comment as if that's all I said on the issue. Yeah, some instances of putting homeless people in skate videos aren't outright exploitative (unless you go by my definition above), but most instances are, and you just keep referring to these "mystery videos" that homeless people have greatly improved. Can't think of one. But, regardless of that, PUTTING HOMELESS PEOPLE IN YOUR VIDEO IS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY AND TRITE AS FUCK. What's next, sticking up for clips of dudes blowing cigarette smoke into the camera? A passionate discussion about the Shake Junt high five?

This is super off-topic and unless you want to start another thread, I won't be continuing this conversation.
Ha SLAP's resident libtard and NY pro cocksucker.

mattchew

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 4397
  • Rep: 356
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #620 on: January 07, 2019, 06:38:01 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Filming homeless people is played out as fuck and pretty exploitative.
[close]

What? While filming street people certainly has the *potential* to be exploitative, it is not inherently so. Skateboarding is a street activity and is intertwined with street culture, of which homeless populations are a huge part of. Pretty much every time I skate in an urban environment I interact with street dwellers...it’s just documenting your environment. Christ, Ocean Howell basically wrote his fucking dissertation on the subject.

In fact I would say most of the time skate videos actually function as one of the only mediums in which homeless populations are provided with any visibility whatsoever. You’re talking about basically the most vulnerable and neglected populations which most people don’t even acknowledge as human, whereas skaters constantly talk, share with, and hang out with them on a regular basis.
[close]
What are you talking about? I didn't say anything against interacting, talking with, or sharing space with homeless people. That's obviously a part of street skateboarding - shit, that's a part of living in any metropolitan environment. However, filming them playing a very particular role (and don't kid yourself, it's always a certain role, and it doesn't do a good job at humanizing them) and putting them in your video without their consent to show how "rough" or "street" your environment is a weak move (not to mention a trite skate video cliche). Huge difference.
[close]

Glad you agree all of those things are a part of street skating. If you’re a good filmer, you’re recording all of them and using them in your edits because they are a part of the story and experience. It’s not hard to do and many people do it well.

I can list off more than a dozen examples of skate videos, multiple by GX even*, in which homeless people are in no way shape or form exploited and are rather portrayed positively and integral to the video itself. You’re a good poster and skate nerd, I’m sure you can think of more than I can.

You made a blanket statement and it’s simply not true. Context is absolutely everything.

*(for the record GX also uses them in exploitative manners as well, volleys being the worst)
[close]
Not only am I willing to bet/argue that the number of instances of exploiting homeless people in skate videos greatly outnumbers the humanizing moments (like when someone sits down and has a conversation with a homeless person, yeah, that’s fine), but more importantly, I can list off plenty of classic street skating videos that didn’t feature a single homeless person or bum for atmospheric purposes. The issue has a lot of grey areas and is obviously not as morally corrupt as the main topic st hand, but sticking a clip of a homeless person in a video is beyond played out. If EE3 and Static II didn’t need any bums to convey a “street” environment, I’m hard-pressed to think of a reason any filmer would.
[close]
I'm guessing you guys have slightly differing definitions of what exploitation entails. It can definitely be a thin line but I think for the most part, simply filming a homeless person when you're out getting clips, especially if they're talking to you, isn't exploiting anyone. It's literally just the reality of whatever area you happening to be skating and filming in that day.
[close]

That and for some reason heckler can’t cop to the fact that he made a huge generalization/blanket statement.

Not arguing that it’s played out or that there are far greater negative examples—of course there are. I’m pointing out your saying that it’s inherently exploitative to film interactions with street people. It’s not. And just because some videos you love didn’t use them, doesn’t negate the fact that plenty have and it’s improved the video.

This is all so off topic now.
[close]
Planman, I actually pointed out the differentiation in intent in bold. And you're right, it depends on your definition of exploitative, but I think it could be argued that filming someone regardless of participation or intent and putting them in your video and not compensating them in some way (not saying compensation doesn't happen) is exploitative.

Mattchew, you're clearly grasping at straws. Not only did you approach me with a faux-academic response to an argument you made up for me, but I outlined and fine-tuned my stance in follow-up posts and you just keep referring to my initial, one sentence comment as if that's all I said on the issue. Yeah, some instances of putting homeless people in skate videos aren't outright exploitative (unless you go by my definition above), but most instances are, and you just keep referring to these "mystery videos" that homeless people have greatly improved. Can't think of one. But, regardless of that, PUTTING HOMELESS PEOPLE IN YOUR VIDEO IS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY AND TRITE AS FUCK. What's next, sticking up for clips of dudes blowing cigarette smoke into the camera? A passionate discussion about the Shake Junt high five?

This is super off-topic and unless you want to start another thread, I won't be continuing this conversation.

I believe this would qualify as the straw grasp.
Enjoy the L, my G.
P R E P A R E  T O  T I M E C O D E

spanyard

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
  • Rep: 77
  • SLAP OG SLAP OG : Been around since SLAP was a mag.
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #621 on: January 07, 2019, 07:19:49 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
the video:

I see an altercation (not clear who started it)

security guard falls/gets pushed down 1st time

he gets back up and rushes the skateboarders

then he gets pushed/ hit/ falls down 2nd time and appears to hit his head, stops moving


anybody see anything different?
[close]

I re-watched it today and that's what I see as well.  Well he got punched the first time he fell, maybe trying to get back up?  Otherwise yeah.  He got up rushed em, got hit, fell and hit head and that's what effed him up was the concrete. 

I have seen much worse beatdowns at punk shows in the 80's, I think the issue is he hit his head on the concrete. 

Some FSU dude knocked someone out with one punch, guy fell hit head on concrete and FSU dude got convicted of murder.  If I remember correctly that is.
[close]

Maybe someone should take still frames of the skateboard being violently flung towards the right side of his head where moments later he falls backwards and doesn't try to break his fall or move because he's out cold before he falls down. Notice how the picture after his surgery it was the right side of his brain and skull that were removed which is the direction the board was coming towards. The dude with khakis, and a black hoody with a white t shirt hanging below the hoodie ran towards the scuffle with his board, punched him on the ground, swung his board at his head, and then punched him one more time before he fell over and his crew was holding him back.

I've been googling on the subject of head and brain injury and a Traumatic Brain Injury can be caused by a fall, but I'm not buying it based off of the victim's injury that it was only caused by falling back and hitting his head. I think it was a combination of punches, the board, and falling backwards. Falling abruptly and hitting your head happens to people everyday, just think of people slipping on ice. They don't have to be rushed to the hospital, induced into a coma, and have their skull removed to remove parts of their brain. Instead they have a bump on the head and a concussion, usually. I actually completely forgot I slipped and fell on my head onto concrete when I was maybe 5 and I just threw up everywhere and had a concussion. I'm sure there are other posters on here that have also hit their head and ended up being completely fine.
[close]

That would be helpful for my blind ass to see that part. 

On the other stuff, you can definitely die from slamming your head on concrete, we are all built different and different angles and etc. 

6 feet = 13 mph for example.
[close]

Yeah but human evolution has a lot to do with the strength of our skull and if our skulls weren't strong enough to protect our brains then you can forget about human beings all together. But I do agree with you it is possible for someone to fall backwards, i.e. slip in the shower and die, especially with the elderly and the victim is nearing that age bracket, so it's possible...except there is footage of him being beat up and the board being swung at his head, which apparently the defense lawyer is saying the board didn't hit the victim and his injury was caused by the fall. I guess we will find out soon enough. Anybody know when Jesse goes back to court?

I saw your post behindthelense, look forward to seeing it.
[close]

Understood, but I am not going to watch again to try and sort when a skateboard was swung as a weapon, since I couldn't see it on all my other views. 

I will say if you tried to take my guitar, you might catch a fucking guitar in the head, so let's put this in perspective. 

Yes though, if you use a something as a weapon and such, you will do time, long and short of it. 

It's awful to say, but hopefully someone does a video with madden style drawings and commentary so we can see the skateboard used in an attack, as my dipshit ass can't see it.

Feel bad for the dude, big time, but I kind of think the concrete is what fucked him up, which makes it more of an accident. Doesn't matter and I know that it doesn't matter if accident or not, dude is going to do some real time for his involvement.
[close]

Not trying to sound like a kook here but they were skating private property and I'm sure were asked to leave. If you  were just minding your own business walking down the street or playing a show and someone tries to jack your guitar that's a completely different situation as that person is doing a criminal act to begin with. In this case the skaters are technically already doing a criminal act by skating this spot before the said incident. By no means can you look at this in the same perspective. And I type this as I am surrounded by $10,000 worth of guitars in my basement that I treat like they are my children.


Address please

shit_for_brains

  • Guest
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #622 on: January 07, 2019, 07:23:34 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
the video:

I see an altercation (not clear who started it)

security guard falls/gets pushed down 1st time

he gets back up and rushes the skateboarders

then he gets pushed/ hit/ falls down 2nd time and appears to hit his head, stops moving


anybody see anything different?
[close]

I re-watched it today and that's what I see as well.  Well he got punched the first time he fell, maybe trying to get back up?  Otherwise yeah.  He got up rushed em, got hit, fell and hit head and that's what effed him up was the concrete. 

I have seen much worse beatdowns at punk shows in the 80's, I think the issue is he hit his head on the concrete. 

Some FSU dude knocked someone out with one punch, guy fell hit head on concrete and FSU dude got convicted of murder.  If I remember correctly that is.
[close]

Maybe someone should take still frames of the skateboard being violently flung towards the right side of his head where moments later he falls backwards and doesn't try to break his fall or move because he's out cold before he falls down. Notice how the picture after his surgery it was the right side of his brain and skull that were removed which is the direction the board was coming towards. The dude with khakis, and a black hoody with a white t shirt hanging below the hoodie ran towards the scuffle with his board, punched him on the ground, swung his board at his head, and then punched him one more time before he fell over and his crew was holding him back.

I've been googling on the subject of head and brain injury and a Traumatic Brain Injury can be caused by a fall, but I'm not buying it based off of the victim's injury that it was only caused by falling back and hitting his head. I think it was a combination of punches, the board, and falling backwards. Falling abruptly and hitting your head happens to people everyday, just think of people slipping on ice. They don't have to be rushed to the hospital, induced into a coma, and have their skull removed to remove parts of their brain. Instead they have a bump on the head and a concussion, usually. I actually completely forgot I slipped and fell on my head onto concrete when I was maybe 5 and I just threw up everywhere and had a concussion. I'm sure there are other posters on here that have also hit their head and ended up being completely fine.
[close]

That would be helpful for my blind ass to see that part. 

On the other stuff, you can definitely die from slamming your head on concrete, we are all built different and different angles and etc. 

6 feet = 13 mph for example.
[close]

Yeah but human evolution has a lot to do with the strength of our skull and if our skulls weren't strong enough to protect our brains then you can forget about human beings all together. But I do agree with you it is possible for someone to fall backwards, i.e. slip in the shower and die, especially with the elderly and the victim is nearing that age bracket, so it's possible...except there is footage of him being beat up and the board being swung at his head, which apparently the defense lawyer is saying the board didn't hit the victim and his injury was caused by the fall. I guess we will find out soon enough. Anybody know when Jesse goes back to court?

I saw your post behindthelense, look forward to seeing it.
[close]

Understood, but I am not going to watch again to try and sort when a skateboard was swung as a weapon, since I couldn't see it on all my other views. 

I will say if you tried to take my guitar, you might catch a fucking guitar in the head, so let's put this in perspective. 

Yes though, if you use a something as a weapon and such, you will do time, long and short of it. 

It's awful to say, but hopefully someone does a video with madden style drawings and commentary so we can see the skateboard used in an attack, as my dipshit ass can't see it.

Feel bad for the dude, big time, but I kind of think the concrete is what fucked him up, which makes it more of an accident. Doesn't matter and I know that it doesn't matter if accident or not, dude is going to do some real time for his involvement.
[close]

Not trying to sound like a kook here but they were skating private property and I'm sure were asked to leave. If you  were just minding your own business walking down the street or playing a show and someone tries to jack your guitar that's a completely different situation as that person is doing a criminal act to begin with. In this case the skaters are technically already doing a criminal act by skating this spot before the said incident. By no means can you look at this in the same perspective. And I type this as I am surrounded by $10,000 worth of guitars in my basement that I treat like they are my children.
[close]


Address please

I have that too it's only 6 guitars

billy.pepperidge

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • Rep: -17
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #623 on: January 07, 2019, 08:01:21 AM »
DGKalis, is Damon Way still paralyzed? It is crazy how fragile we can be while Jaws and Heath show how tough we can be. These are all horrible stories but I try not to judge too hard. Most everyone has been in a fight here or there and you don't expect them to end this badly. I think a Pal or 2 might have some experiences like this. Hope the Pals are not on Jesse V's jury.

DGKALIS

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 981
  • Rep: 526
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #624 on: January 07, 2019, 08:04:06 AM »
DGKalis, is Damon Way still paralyzed? It is crazy how fragile we can be while Jaws and Heath show how tough we can be. These are all horrible stories but I try not to judge too hard. Most everyone has been in a fight here or there and you don't expect them to end this badly. I think a Pal or 2 might have some experiences like this. Hope the Pals are not on Jesse V's jury.

Yeah. He's been for years. Ever since I've known him.. and thats been 20+ years.

spanyard

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
  • Rep: 77
  • SLAP OG SLAP OG : Been around since SLAP was a mag.
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #625 on: January 07, 2019, 08:05:49 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
the video:

I see an altercation (not clear who started it)

security guard falls/gets pushed down 1st time

he gets back up and rushes the skateboarders

then he gets pushed/ hit/ falls down 2nd time and appears to hit his head, stops moving


anybody see anything different?
[close]

I re-watched it today and that's what I see as well.  Well he got punched the first time he fell, maybe trying to get back up?  Otherwise yeah.  He got up rushed em, got hit, fell and hit head and that's what effed him up was the concrete. 

I have seen much worse beatdowns at punk shows in the 80's, I think the issue is he hit his head on the concrete. 

Some FSU dude knocked someone out with one punch, guy fell hit head on concrete and FSU dude got convicted of murder.  If I remember correctly that is.
[close]

Maybe someone should take still frames of the skateboard being violently flung towards the right side of his head where moments later he falls backwards and doesn't try to break his fall or move because he's out cold before he falls down. Notice how the picture after his surgery it was the right side of his brain and skull that were removed which is the direction the board was coming towards. The dude with khakis, and a black hoody with a white t shirt hanging below the hoodie ran towards the scuffle with his board, punched him on the ground, swung his board at his head, and then punched him one more time before he fell over and his crew was holding him back.

I've been googling on the subject of head and brain injury and a Traumatic Brain Injury can be caused by a fall, but I'm not buying it based off of the victim's injury that it was only caused by falling back and hitting his head. I think it was a combination of punches, the board, and falling backwards. Falling abruptly and hitting your head happens to people everyday, just think of people slipping on ice. They don't have to be rushed to the hospital, induced into a coma, and have their skull removed to remove parts of their brain. Instead they have a bump on the head and a concussion, usually. I actually completely forgot I slipped and fell on my head onto concrete when I was maybe 5 and I just threw up everywhere and had a concussion. I'm sure there are other posters on here that have also hit their head and ended up being completely fine.
[close]

That would be helpful for my blind ass to see that part. 

On the other stuff, you can definitely die from slamming your head on concrete, we are all built different and different angles and etc. 

6 feet = 13 mph for example.
[close]

Yeah but human evolution has a lot to do with the strength of our skull and if our skulls weren't strong enough to protect our brains then you can forget about human beings all together. But I do agree with you it is possible for someone to fall backwards, i.e. slip in the shower and die, especially with the elderly and the victim is nearing that age bracket, so it's possible...except there is footage of him being beat up and the board being swung at his head, which apparently the defense lawyer is saying the board didn't hit the victim and his injury was caused by the fall. I guess we will find out soon enough. Anybody know when Jesse goes back to court?

I saw your post behindthelense, look forward to seeing it.
[close]

Understood, but I am not going to watch again to try and sort when a skateboard was swung as a weapon, since I couldn't see it on all my other views. 

I will say if you tried to take my guitar, you might catch a fucking guitar in the head, so let's put this in perspective. 

Yes though, if you use a something as a weapon and such, you will do time, long and short of it. 

It's awful to say, but hopefully someone does a video with madden style drawings and commentary so we can see the skateboard used in an attack, as my dipshit ass can't see it.

Feel bad for the dude, big time, but I kind of think the concrete is what fucked him up, which makes it more of an accident. Doesn't matter and I know that it doesn't matter if accident or not, dude is going to do some real time for his involvement.
[close]

Not trying to sound like a kook here but they were skating private property and I'm sure were asked to leave. If you  were just minding your own business walking down the street or playing a show and someone tries to jack your guitar that's a completely different situation as that person is doing a criminal act to begin with. In this case the skaters are technically already doing a criminal act by skating this spot before the said incident. By no means can you look at this in the same perspective. And I type this as I am surrounded by $10,000 worth of guitars in my basement that I treat like they are my children.
[close]


Address please
[close]

I have that too it's only 6 guitars

I have 14 and need an intervention.

pointandclick

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 3268
  • Rep: 243
  • SLAP OG SLAP OG : Been around since SLAP was a mag.
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #626 on: January 07, 2019, 08:10:20 AM »
Expand Quote
DGKalis, is Damon Way still paralyzed? It is crazy how fragile we can be while Jaws and Heath show how tough we can be. These are all horrible stories but I try not to judge too hard. Most everyone has been in a fight here or there and you don't expect them to end this badly. I think a Pal or 2 might have some experiences like this. Hope the Pals are not on Jesse V's jury.
[close]

Yeah. He's been for years. Ever since I've known him.. and thats been 20+ years.
im surprised ive never actually heard of this before.

givecigstosurfgroms

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 7013
  • Rep: -958
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #627 on: January 07, 2019, 08:41:16 AM »
The all over the place tradjectory of peoples posts thats ranged from making fun of people suggesting it was the influence of the vids lately to typical 180°s on the whole thing.  Its slad.
"I just care about the river, I dont care about your back"

h00man

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 3719
  • Rep: 123
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #628 on: January 07, 2019, 11:00:09 AM »
Kalis said it pretty well.

Do skaters ever think of why they're getting kicked out or harassed by security?

she can ride dick ham ham no joke ham

winecrab

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 697
  • Rep: -176
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Security guard beaten at SF Black Rock
« Reply #629 on: January 07, 2019, 03:12:22 PM »
Cool your jets Tyshawn or you're next. Clint too but I don't think he can knock someone out.