Author Topic: Twin tail  (Read 24481 times)

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Xen

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2020, 07:09:27 PM »
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(... ...)

That's fair. I mean, I don't agree with your second paragraph but I respect your fleshed-out opinion (extra points for dropping 'atavism' in a sentence). I personally found the Ishod twin to be far too pointy for me (and too mellow). I like large square nose boards, but I'm just ollieing shit 99% of the time, so I can very much understand tech-wizards wanting a true mellow twin tail shape. Bobby Worrest pretty much single handedly upped Venture's market share and he's been riding twin tails lately so who knows, maybe their popularity will jump and you'll have more options sooner than later.
[close]

I'm not a tech wizard either but grew to like leaner tips over the years. I get that there is upsides with fuller shapes as well. It's nice to have a selection of shapes for everybody. That's why I want brands to finally get this going.
Yes I forgot about the krooked twin from Worrest. It's the Ishod shape they say. Worrest riding Ventures got me thnking about them as well, how can he ride those strange things so well?

For people who are wondering about the twin idiocy, what it's about, effort post to get brands to step into this incoming:

When you have ridden your trucks for a considerable time, you pull a fs pop shove it (a varial heelflip or a hardflip for the masters) and your standing on your nose as the tail. You feel the trucks are crooked from all the asymmetric bending, caused by heel to front toe imbalance I guess. This feels just awful. No wonder most pros shove it back  after 3 milliseconds landed in this stance like "get this back, I hate it".

When you have a twin board and twin ridden trucks, your board always feels crisp and straight, not bent like a stick from the woods.

In my later years I've come to the conclusion that the nose being different from the tail is root of most issues with switch skating. The different pop motion as in angle or time frame in pop necessitates you to learn all tricks a second time in a different manner from the time you learned them regular. Needless increase in complexity. The nose pops differently.
Also, the tail in front and the nose as tail when riding switch gives a very different weight distribution balance to the board while flipped, cause the nose swings more weight. This would show in rocket sw flips by the way. So sw flips suffer from that as well. No wonder so few people arrive at clean, poppy, nice sw flip and variations. By the way, I'm not a huge master, I was just some medium-to-advanced skater with some nice tricks and these times I'm happy to relearn some basics, as most is lost.

Considering needed pop of a nose for your front foot. Why does your back foot prefer the tail? If the nose was better, you'd ride it backwards like very few pros do (Decenzo and Berger until he made a twin nose shape, and Decenzo popped his nollie off El Toro off the tail/shorter tip).

Your tail is just fine but you learned popping on huge noses so your front foot wants this out of habit. If your front foot learns to pop swiftly and with force you will get better overall nollie and switch pop, not the sucking-up-knees-only pop most stagnate on (I think a "suck up only pop" could be due to overly steep noses/tips, but that's a different topic). Also consider that so few people use the tail for a sw pop because the trucks feel awful in this stance because they're bent as fck. Riding switch with your your backfoot on your tail is the worst feeling in skateboarding because of bent trucks. Try it, it's horror.

You will never have a bent feel on a twin tail, just the option to learn your sw pop in the same motions as your regular pop.

Finally, with twin tips you get a symmetrical motion with your board in every way you flip and rotate it. Every object designed to fully rotate is best designed as symmetrical. The more the differences/imbalances you add the less clean and predictable the flips should turn out.

My first nollies on a twin tail already felt like a huge relief. Relief from unnecessary huge, bulging, fat noses which serve no purpose but fcking up the pop and balance.

When will brands finally get this and make some symmetrical shapes to choose from, full, slim, pointy, longer, shorter, steeper and mellower for all tastes. We have two thousand board companies and only four or so got one symm. shape.

This. All of this.

Agree on the DLX TT being too pointy (and just a bit flat all around)...they Mystery Symmetry boards (twin noses) were the fucking best because they were giant, useless noses.

The Creature EvilivE series was on decet, 6.5" twin tails (but the wheel base was long @14.5 and the length was 32" and a bit pointy). the 'Sacred Symmetry' run was even better:



If someone makes a squareish twin tail, 31.75/.85 and a 14.25 " WB in multiple widths I think we'd have a winner.

« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 07:23:25 PM by Xen »

rocklobster

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2020, 07:15:45 PM »
The new Santa Cruz Maurio McCoy Steadfast VX decks are symetrical:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OofpsC6MoSs&ab_channel=SantaCruzSkateboards

Xen

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2020, 07:39:29 PM »
The new Santa Cruz Maurio McCoy Steadfast VX decks are symetrical:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OofpsC6MoSs&ab_channel=SantaCruzSkateboards

Wow, didn't know that...couldn't stand that video lol so I didn't get that far :P

sammyz

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2020, 04:46:05 AM »
Im loving my Ishod 8.3 twin tail.

Id get that SC McCoy one if the tails weren’t  so steep.

Xen

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2020, 09:33:02 AM »
Im loving my Ishod 8.3 twin tail.

Id get that SC McCoy one if the tails weren’t  so steep.

Sifting through a few more vids they've done recently, it appears that a good amount of their decks have symmetrical kick angles (nose and tail being the same degree of kick) but not shape or length.

I picked one up...sigh, I'm a sucker.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 04:26:12 PM by Xen »

trashparty

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2020, 02:59:28 PM »
on my 3rd twin tail krooked.

i was skeptical at first, but now i cant see myself going back to non symmetrical boards

so nice for ledges / lines.

also i rarely get razor tail anymore which is a plus



Seventyfrigginseven

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2020, 04:21:03 PM »
I just tried the 8" Ishod, and I didn't like it. Now if it had a slightly shorter wb and longer "tails" it would of been amazing. It was my first symmetrical board, and I love the idea of it.. I should of gone with the 8.38 I guess.

Baswell Cerry

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2020, 04:43:31 PM »
I'd rather have twin nose. I had a deathwish with a small nose and I just couldn't flick it right.

Wait.... You mean you skated it backwards?

Xen

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2020, 05:27:49 PM »
I just tried the 8" Ishod, and I didn't like it. Now if it had a slightly shorter wb and longer "tails" it would of been amazing. It was my first symmetrical board, and I love the idea of it.. I should of gone with the 8.38 I guess.

8.3 has a long WB tho...14.4"

rocklobster

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2020, 07:38:50 PM »
Expand Quote
Im loving my Ishod 8.3 twin tail.

Id get that SC McCoy one if the tails weren’t  so steep.
[close]

Sifting through a few more vids they've done recently, it appears that a good amount of their decks have symmetrical kick angles (nose and tail being the same degree of kick) but not shape or length.

I picked one up...sigh, I'm a sucker.

Interesting, I assumed they meant the nose and tails were the same length. My bad.

Let me know how the VX decks treat you, I'm really into the fancy tech boards like P2 (now discontinued). Loving the Flip I've been riding, picked up 7 more on clearance.

Xen

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2020, 07:54:05 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Im loving my Ishod 8.3 twin tail.

Id get that SC McCoy one if the tails weren’t  so steep.
[close]

Sifting through a few more vids they've done recently, it appears that a good amount of their decks have symmetrical kick angles (nose and tail being the same degree of kick) but not shape.

I picked one up...sigh, I'm a sucker.
[close]

Interesting, I assumed they meant the nose and tails were the same length. My bad.

Let me know how the VX decks treat you, I'm really into the fancy tech boards like P2 (now discontinued). Loving the Flip I've been riding, picked up 7 more on clearance.

In that vid he mentioned that the board has symmetrical kicks and nose and tail length @ 6.71" (which my be long for me but whatever) - nothing on shape.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 07:25:42 PM by Xen »

LewFarrell

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2020, 09:16:39 PM »
I have a local skateboard maker doing a custom twin tail for me. I can afford it these days and it's cool to support a skater owned business so why the fuck not.

Dimensions are:
8" wide
6.7" symmetrical nose/tail
14.5" wheelbase
90s style taper shape

He has been sending me progress pics along the way, here's the rough cutout... Pretty amped to try it.


jay_nev

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2020, 05:41:54 AM »
I have a local skateboard maker doing a custom twin tail for me. I can afford it these days and it's cool to support a skater owned business so why the fuck not.

Dimensions are:
8" wide
6.7" symmetrical nose/tail
14.5" wheelbase
90s style taper shape

He has been sending me progress pics along the way, here's the rough cutout... Pretty amped to try it.


nice sounds fun. Keep progress updated and good on you to support local skater owned

Seventyfrigginseven

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2020, 06:12:52 AM »
Expand Quote
I just tried the 8" Ishod, and I didn't like it. Now if it had a slightly shorter wb and longer "tails" it would of been amazing. It was my first symmetrical board, and I love the idea of it.. I should of gone with the 8.38 I guess.
[close]

8.3 has a long WB tho...14.4"
Oh thanks! I thought it was shorter.

beatifk

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2020, 12:46:00 AM »
Just got done skating a Ishod Twin 8.25. I liked it for some things, but it doesn't suit my skating style at all.

As already mentioned in this thread, the deck lasts forever because you can skate it both ways which means trucks and wheels also wear evenly. If you skate your front and back truck different tightness though, you wont benefit from that.

However, and it makes sense looking at Ishod's skating, this is a board for someone who skates with grace and finesse. I tend to skate with brute force, so I found myself sometimes moving my front foot too far forward off the nose and smashing my ankle with the board. I just switched to a Hockey deck, so that solved my problems.

rocklobster

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2020, 01:19:29 AM »
Just got done skating a Ishod Twin 8.25. I liked it for some things, but it doesn't suit my skating style at all.

As already mentioned in this thread, the deck lasts forever because you can skate it both ways which means trucks and wheels also wear evenly. If you skate your front and back truck different tightness though, you wont benefit from that.

However, and it makes sense looking at Ishod's skating, this is a board for someone who skates with grace and finesse. I tend to skate with brute force, so I found myself sometimes moving my front foot too far forward off the nose and smashing my ankle with the board. I just switched to a Hockey deck, so that solved my problems.

Excellent assessment; I didn't kickflip for the 3 weeks I was riding this deck, mainly because I didn't have a nose to pop my kickflips off.

pdknox

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2020, 05:25:30 AM »
Yo what up?

tbh when i was younger, i thought all contemporary decks were "twin tails".  i didnt really pay attention to shapes or making sure to skate the tail until a few years ago after hearing ishod talk about his setup on the 9club.  i still dont really pay attention to that stuff.  its cool for people that are into it but i tend to adapt to my setup a week after changing something.  I am on my second ishod peaches deck and its cool but its also not a big deal.  its a fraction of an inch.  both times i set it up with new trucks.  I would at least use new bushings.

ha.

Xen

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2020, 01:36:23 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Im loving my Ishod 8.3 twin tail.

Id get that SC McCoy one if the tails weren’t  so steep.
[close]

Sifting through a few more vids they've done recently, it appears that a good amount of their decks have symmetrical kick angles (nose and tail being the same degree of kick) but not shape.

I picked one up...sigh, I'm a sucker.
[close]

Interesting, I assumed they meant the nose and tails were the same length. My bad.

Let me know how the VX decks treat you, I'm really into the fancy tech boards like P2 (now discontinued). Loving the Flip I've been riding, picked up 7 more on clearance.
[close]

In that vid he mentioned that the board has symmetrical kicks and nose and tail length @ 6.71" (which my be long for me but whatever) - nothing on shape.

Nose and tail do seem to be the same length, haven't gripped it yet to be able to tell if they have the same shape or not.

But for those following,  it's a bit lighter than most decks I have on hand with similar dims but not lighter than the King of Light decks: Primitive (by about 30 grams).

Kicks are steep-AF...they match up with the other SC deck I have, as well as a dwindle/Almost....

Compared to a plan b:


Polar:

rocklobster

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2020, 04:03:19 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Im loving my Ishod 8.3 twin tail.

Id get that SC McCoy one if the tails weren’t  so steep.
[close]

Sifting through a few more vids they've done recently, it appears that a good amount of their decks have symmetrical kick angles (nose and tail being the same degree of kick) but not shape.

I picked one up...sigh, I'm a sucker.
[close]

Interesting, I assumed they meant the nose and tails were the same length. My bad.

Let me know how the VX decks treat you, I'm really into the fancy tech boards like P2 (now discontinued). Loving the Flip I've been riding, picked up 7 more on clearance.
[close]

In that vid he mentioned that the board has symmetrical kicks and nose and tail length @ 6.71" (which my be long for me but whatever) - nothing on shape.
[close]

Nose and tail do seem to be the same length, haven't gripped it yet to be able to tell if they have the same shape or not.

But for those following,  it's a bit lighter than most decks I have on hand with similar dims but not lighter than the King of Light decks: Primitive (by about 30 grams).

Kicks are steep-AF...they match up with the other SC deck I have, as well as a dwindle/Almost....

Compared to a plan b:


Polar:


Damn those kicks are very steep. Definitely going with a low truck. I guess going steeper extends the boards life, wish they went a little mellower to allow for more truck combinations. How's the concave on that?

Xen

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2020, 01:30:57 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Im loving my Ishod 8.3 twin tail.

Id get that SC McCoy one if the tails weren’t  so steep.
[close]

Sifting through a few more vids they've done recently, it appears that a good amount of their decks have symmetrical kick angles (nose and tail being the same degree of kick) but not shape.

I picked one up...sigh, I'm a sucker.
[close]

Interesting, I assumed they meant the nose and tails were the same length. My bad.

Let me know how the VX decks treat you, I'm really into the fancy tech boards like P2 (now discontinued). Loving the Flip I've been riding, picked up 7 more on clearance.
[close]

In that vid he mentioned that the board has symmetrical kicks and nose and tail length @ 6.71" (which my be long for me but whatever) - nothing on shape.
[close]

Nose and tail do seem to be the same length, haven't gripped it yet to be able to tell if they have the same shape or not.

But for those following,  it's a bit lighter than most decks I have on hand with similar dims but not lighter than the King of Light decks: Primitive (by about 30 grams).

Kicks are steep-AF...they match up with the other SC deck I have, as well as a dwindle/Almost....

Compared to a plan b:


Polar:

[close]

Damn those kicks are very steep. Definitely going with a low truck. I guess going steeper extends the boards life, wish they went a little mellower to allow for more truck combinations. How's the concave on that?

Medium-Deep. NOT mellow at all.

I'm on the fence with 144s or 5.6s with a lean (heh) towards the Ventures:
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 01:38:02 PM by Xen »

trash

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2020, 02:22:17 PM »
To the guys who liked the Ishod twin tail (or any twin tail), did you end up reusing trucks/bushings or start from scratch? I'm thinking about grabbing one but worried I'll end up hating it if I'm breaking in trucks at the same time.

passtheish

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2020, 03:02:25 PM »
To the guys who liked the Ishod twin tail (or any twin tail), did you end up reusing trucks/bushings or start from scratch? I'm thinking about grabbing one but worried I'll end up hating it if I'm breaking in trucks at the same time.

I'm also interested in the truck situation. I ordered a twintail but don't want to buy a new set of trucks so just ordered new bushings hoping it'll be enough , I don't really have any grooves so the axel won't be a problem. Would love to hear any differing opinions or validations

Seventyfrigginseven

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2020, 03:29:29 PM »
Expand Quote
To the guys who liked the Ishod twin tail (or any twin tail), did you end up reusing trucks/bushings or start from scratch? I'm thinking about grabbing one but worried I'll end up hating it if I'm breaking in trucks at the same time.
[close]

I'm also interested in the truck situation. I ordered a twintail but don't want to buy a new set of trucks so just ordered new bushings hoping it'll be enough , I don't really have any grooves so the axel won't be a problem. Would love to hear any differing opinions or validations
I just loosened my trucks up to a little more than finger tight, and I didn't have any issues at all. I had broken in Bones medium bushings on 139 indys and was starting the process of experimenting with looser trucks at the time anyhow. Reading through this thread is making me wish I liked it so bad, twin tails are such a good idea imo.

Weezil

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2020, 04:14:35 PM »
Tried both. Opted for fresh trucks. Old ones pretty much felt the same on both ends but it threw me off mentally so I stuck with fresh ones.

Xen

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2020, 04:56:24 PM »
To the guys who liked the Ishod twin tail (or any twin tail), did you end up reusing trucks/bushings or start from scratch? I'm thinking about grabbing one but worried I'll end up hating it if I'm breaking in trucks at the same time.

I swapped in new pivot cups and checked my bushings for any deformities (they were pretty fresh), put them back together and kept the nut flush with the kingpin as usual. Didn't stress too much about it.

If you are using beat up/old ass bushings I'd probably opt for fresh cups and bushings to start fresh out of the gate as you get used it. I'd imagine it's tougher for those that ride tighter and those that ride tight in the back/loose in the front to adjust; I've always made sure my trucks felt the same no matter the direction (bennies of loose trucks is you don't notice).

ballintoohard

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2020, 10:32:23 AM »
I bought fresh 5.6's and made sure they were equal looseness. Working fine so far. I actually really like the setup other than for locking into crooks.

What is the closest shape to the Bobby twin tail? 8.38 or 8.25 full with the 14.38?

Xen

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2020, 12:12:55 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Im loving my Ishod 8.3 twin tail.

Id get that SC McCoy one if the tails weren’t  so steep.
[close]

Sifting through a few more vids they've done recently, it appears that a good amount of their decks have symmetrical kick angles (nose and tail being the same degree of kick) but not shape.

I picked one up...sigh, I'm a sucker.
[close]

Interesting, I assumed they meant the nose and tails were the same length. My bad.

Let me know how the VX decks treat you, I'm really into the fancy tech boards like P2 (now discontinued). Loving the Flip I've been riding, picked up 7 more on clearance.
[close]

In that vid he mentioned that the board has symmetrical kicks and nose and tail length @ 6.71" (which my be long for me but whatever) - nothing on shape.
[close]

Nose and tail do seem to be the same length, haven't gripped it yet to be able to tell if they have the same shape or not.

But for those following,  it's a bit lighter than most decks I have on hand with similar dims but not lighter than the King of Light decks: Primitive (by about 30 grams).

Kicks are steep-AF...they match up with the other SC deck I have, as well as a dwindle/Almost....

Compared to a plan b:


Polar:

[close]

Damn those kicks are very steep. Definitely going with a low truck. I guess going steeper extends the boards life, wish they went a little mellower to allow for more truck combinations. How's the concave on that?
[close]

Medium-Deep. NOT mellow at all.

I'm on the fence with 144s or 5.6s with a lean (heh) towards the Ventures:


Confirmed! The board is symmetrical (length and shape of nose and tail); making it more of a symmetrical double kick rather than a Twin Tail or Double Nose/Twin Nose as the 6.71 is sort right in between industry standards for nose and tail length...it's longer for standard tails but shorter than standard noses...

Seventyfrigginseven

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #57 on: September 17, 2020, 02:47:05 PM »
There was a few guys on here that were just starting to try out twin tails, I was wondering how you all are liking it. I set mine back up, and it is starting to really grow on me now. Definately glad I didn't give it away like I said I would. They require patience for sure.

ballintoohard

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #58 on: September 17, 2020, 04:01:50 PM »
So far had a couple great and couple not great sessions on it (Worrest 8.38, 14.4WB). I also switched to Ventures at the same time coming from Thunders with a 14.25 WB. Seems great for most manuals, back 180s, flip tricks, but obviously not nollie stuff or locking into crooks yet. Giving it time and like it enough to have scooped a spare Ishod twin up hopefully they're identical. Might set that one up with my Thunders even to I have used them on a normal setup.

Paperclip20

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Re: Twin tail
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2020, 04:43:41 AM »
There was a few guys on here that were just starting to try out twin tails, I was wondering how you all are liking it. I set mine back up, and it is starting to really grow on me now. Definately glad I didn't give it away like I said I would. They require patience for sure.

So far I've ridden 4 different twin tails and I've loved them all. To me the benefits outweigh the negatives. However I do prefer when the kicks are about 6.7 so it's not quite as short as a normal tail on both ends.