Whats the no BS answer on low and mid ranged bearings?

[sharkin]

Rock’n Ronalds


Don’t bother trying to save on a used set. They get better with wear and appreciate on the secondary market.

[Diocletian]

I still have a brand new set of Ronald’s if anyone wants them for $20 I’ll pay the shipping.

[Roisto]

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But i was basically saying the same thing?

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No, you were not.

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I mentioned how the conclusion I came to is that all non-euro made bearings seem to be inconsistent in quality, which lines up exactly with your thoughts on factory quality.

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How the hell did you come up to that conclusion? Have you ever been in a factory? You seem to think a factory just churns out the exact same product over and over and that's all they do. This is very far from reality.

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Since there is no cost effective way to scientifically test bearings for me and no other person doing it, I just have to do research, and what ive found is its highly likely that there is virtually no difference in discernable performance between china made bearings due to inconsistency during manufacturing, and thus just buying the cheapest is the best route

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I don't trust your research one bit. Sure there might be bearings cheaper than Reds that are equally as good (or even better) but there certainly are bearings cheaper, same price and even more expensive that are far worse. All made in China. This does not support your "research".

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Trust me if I had the money I would gladly blow a weekend buying 50 sets of bearings of each model from various brands and doing a highly controlled test for many repetitions. But the reason I think about this stuff in the first place is I dont have alot of money so I try to get the most bang for my buck from my skate products. Flatspotting a wheel or breaking a deck could mean i cant skate for 2 weeks.

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Ok


Why you think all Chinese bearings are the same quality is beyond me.

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lmfao all right man, your pissy comments are attacking points i never made. "you seem to think a factory churns out the exact same product over and over" no dipshit my entire post is literally asking about whats the no bs answer to what these factories produce and that these factories likely make INCONSISTENT product. The fucking opposite of the exact same product

 "Sure there might be bearings cheaper than Reds that are equally as good (or even better) but there certainly are bearings cheaper, same price and even more expensive that are far worse" this sentence makes very little sense and your grasp of english seems to be shit tier, but if you are trying to say the quality of bearings made in china is all over the place thats literally the basis of my entire post. I understand if you arent an english language native language but your fuckboy know it all attitude is oozing out despite your inability to form coherent sentences.

Wow man, some harsh words there. Unneeded and not very shalom at all. 

To your first point. I was not saying that the product differences come (necessarily) from inconsistent manufacturing. Granted, I've never dealt with bearing factories but I have with many other factories and most times they make different products by design, not by accident. This is normal manufacturing. Higher spec, lower spec, different designs, you name it, they make it.

To the second point. I apologise if you failed to understand my point. I will try to type simpler sentences in the future. What I was saying is that all Chinese made bearings are not the same 15 cent bearings you keep going on about. Some are worse than others. So, I would say that Bones Reds probably are not the same exact bearing as some shit Pig bearings or whatever.

I can understand not having a bunch of money to blow around and trying to make the most out of it, I've been there too. I agree that the lack of proper information is very frustrating. I would take what ever Rockin' Ron or any other snake oil salesman says with a grain of salt.

Best thing for making bearings last is treating them well. Always use spacers and speed rings. Always use shields. If you get your bearings wet, clean them properly. The Bones cleaning kit works wonders. No need to chuck a perfectly good set of bearings just because they got dirty or a bit rusty from some rain. I've kept a set of Reds running for years by cleaning them every now and then.

Oh, just wanted to say that I didn't mean to offend you but that's how it seems to have come across. I just find your view of how factories, and manufacturing in general, work to not be very realistic.

Shalom and let's all be nice to each other. No need to be calling anyone names or resort to attacking one on a personal level. I'm just trying to discuss the subject here. I understand that none of the replies have given you the final truth that you are looking for. I too have been annoyed by such situations many times but sadly sometimes that's just how it is, especially with skateboarding.

[Krooked antihero]

If you’re an adult and not rocking swiss/6balls you’re blowing it big time imo. Also, I’ve found out that my swiss aren’t probably any faster than cheap chinese bearings but they roll a lot longer...just my 2cents.

[Tattooq]

Bones reds ceramics are 100x better than bones Swiss and they are made in China.

[rob]

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Bones Reds and Swiss is the no BS answer.

Reds have always done me right. They don’t last forever of course but are only like 17 bucks. I do live in the US. I have heard that in some countries you have to watch out for fake Reds.

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i've won a set of fake reds in a contest before, they're awful. i don't know how many kinds of fake reds are out there but the ones i won had bonesbearings .com (with an extra space before the .com) written on the back of the packaging. real reds don't have the spacebar in the address on there.

as for good cheap bearings, i like the modus blues i have, they're really good and haven't slowed down at all since i bought them (~2 months ago)

I’m also still riding my modus, probably going strong almost a year now.

I totally back modus, also grant Taylor rides them so yeah

Man Xen has me tempted on those 6 ball race reds though

[padded_shorts]

Anyone try the new Pig Primes yet?

[Sativa Lung]

I still have a brand new set of Ronald’s if anyone wants them for $20 I’ll pay the shipping.

Do you still have them? I'll buy them or trade you a set of brand new Thunder 147s or a set of Bones OG 100 53mm.

[Ok]

Bones reds ceramics are 100x better than bones Swiss and they are made in China.

Bold claim. I’ve never tried them tho so....

[johnes]

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Bones reds ceramics are 100x better than bones Swiss and they are made in China.

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Bold claim. I’ve never tried them tho so....

Bones red ceramics were the best bearing I ever had for a day. Then half locked up the second day. The rest eventually locked up too.
Not even an exaggeration, second day skating them, both days I skated in perfectly clean conditions.

[bombsaway86]

If you’re an adult and not rocking swiss/6balls you’re blowing it big time imo.

THIS. I’ve had the same set of Swiss 6 for about 13 years now, still going strong with regular cleaning and lube. Swiss 6 + SPF = deadly fast

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Bones reds ceramics are 100x better than bones Swiss and they are made in China.

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Bold claim. I’ve never tried them tho so....

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Bones red ceramics were the best bearing I ever had for a day. Then half locked up the second day. The rest eventually locked up too.
Not even an exaggeration, second day skating them, both days I skated in perfectly clean conditions.

Cross them right off the list den.
My current Swiss are decent, but I have two sets of reds that broke in better and are noticeably faster. I live in a flat place, and I mainly whittle in parking lots so it doesn’t really matter. Swiss used to last longer, the one set of 6 I had were the best. I’ve been surprised by several sets of mini logos, just cheapies I out on 3rd it 4th set ups that went alright.

[A.A]

You get what you pay for?

[ChasingCars]

Best low/mid range bearings I have found are Zealous, although they take some time to break in. Any six ball bearing especially ones produced outside of China will work better and last longer for skating due to axial loading. This is the reason I skate Zealous bearings because they have integrated washers and spacers so there is less axial movement inherently if you tighten them properly. Durability is good but not like a Swiss bearing with regular cleanings.

[RichardAsh]

If there’s a mad rush for affordable yet performance-loaded bearings, then the Bones Reds Bearings will be the first to fly off the shelves. Redz are probably the best bearings you can get without paying a fortune. Seriously, unless you're a pro in need of high performance parts, there is no reason to buy anything other than redz.

[S.]

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Bones Reds and Swiss is the no BS answer.
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Reds have always done me right. They don’t last forever of course but are only like 17 bucks. I do live in the US. I have heard that in some countries you have to watch out for fake Reds.

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Wrong!

All bearings are the same $2 chinapieces of shit with a different logo except Bones Swiss and I believe Modus are from the germany factory but don't quote me on this.




Here's my source all taken taken from this thread (http://www.concretedisciples.com/bbs/index.php?action=vthread&forum=1&topic=90)


I'll quote all the info.









"Well here's what I've learned. I am a bearing engineer of almost 20 years dealing with miniature bearings for skate, aircraft, aerospace, and NASA applications dealing with all aspects of design, and ABEC specification. More recently my nephew and I started our own High Tech Bearing Company six months ago, Ok enough bullshit. The ABEC is the allowable tolerance. The ABEC 1 tolerance for the bore of a 608 bearing is .3150" +.0000 / -.0003".==== that means the Bore could be anywhere from .3147-.3150" (8MM). ==== ABEC 7 is .3150 +.0000 / -.0002. (.3148-.3150) What does all this mean??? The Abec tolerance is all but INSIGNIFICANT in a skate application. Skateboard Truck Axels are not manufactured to the same tight tolerances as the Bearing. And the O.D. of the Bearing goes in a flexible urathane wheel. This eliminates any possible advantage of the Abec tolerance would give to assure accurate fit. The Abec is the DIMENTIONAL TOLERANCES. The Abec tolerance does cover out of roundness and for this reason I would use ABEC 3 or better. Almost any bearing with the country of origin on the bearing except for china will be Abec 3 or better. Back in the 80's they had to sort bearing lots to get the Abec 3 and Abec 7 Bearings. Todays modern machines make to Abec 3 or better even if they are marketed as abec 1. They will have an Abec 3 price and a Abec 1 price to give you a choise, but it will be the same Abec 3 bearing. ANY BEARINGS FROM CHINA WILL NOT BE BETTER THAN ABEC 1. China will put "ABEC 7" or "FUCK YOU" on the bearing if you order 5000 or more!! No laws in China against that. You cant mis-mark the bearings in the other bearing manufacturing Countries. Bearings with a Metal Ball Cage have a 40,000 RPM Rating. Plastic Cage = 100,000-150,000 RPM.

WHAT IS IMPORTANT. 1) The Manufacturer. All Chinese bearings are crap. All those weird name brands are shit. Top of the Line bearing manufactuers make 608's with the proper Raceway Curvature, cages and internal clearances. WIB, GMN, GRW and NMB manufacture the best bearings in the world for skateboard. For those of you not fimiliar with these names, WIB makes all the bearings for "Bones" All Bones bearings marked "Swiss" are manufacturered by WIB Miniature Bearing in Switzerland for Bones. GMN and GRW make all the German Bearings no matter what name may be marketet on the shield. Plastic or non-metalic ball cage will make more way more difference in speed than any ABEC change.
OPTIMAL BEARING: I have used everything in the world, Ceramics manufactured just for my SkateBoard, Abec 9, Bearings Manufacturered by every bearing company in the world. I have access to over 400 Lubricants in my field.
WHAT DO I SKATE ON
The best bearing by design right now is the Super Swiss 6 by Bones with SpeedCream. The Bearing had several advantages. 1) It is manufactured by WIB Bearing. 2) They are made with a tight Raceway curvature to avoid "Excess Axial Play" 3) They are supplied with a Re-enforced plastic cage rated at 150,000 RPM 4)Laberinth Non-Contacting Rubber Seals to keep out dirt. This is the obtimum design for free rotation and keeping out contamination.
Ceramic Ball Bearings are only good if they come with Plastic or Phenolic Ball Cages. As a Hardcore skater skating 4-5 days a week. Super Swiss 6 with Speed cream cant be beat. Fuc* the Abec rating. The Abec rating is designed so that the bearing has manufacturing consistancy in order to manufacture mating parts to simular tolerances. (Re: Precision Shafting and Housings.)
Ron

Oh Yeah
... one more note on why the Super swiss 6 has lower starting and running torque (This is Known as Speed to us skateboarders)
All 608's are made with 7 ball compliment. The Super Swiss 6 is the ONLY 608 manufactured with a 6 ball compliment. The Balls all bigger, can take higher load (Impact), Have less ball surphase touching the raceway with 6 balls instead of 7 which lowers the running torque of the bearing making the bearing get to full speed quicker. I am sure within the next year you will start seeing more 6 ball designs, but right now its WIB(Bones) that makes 'em...At all possible, stick with German or Swiss with Plastic or non-metalic ball cages. Any bearing with a steel cage will be slower no matter where it's made. Grease is just an oil with a thickener, the thickener in the grease will slow down your bearing and running just oil will attract contaminates from far away and not provide proper protection. Use the Good-old Speed Cream in the skate shops. By buying German or Swiss what is important is you will know the bearing is manufactuered by a very high quality bearing manufacturer who does the final raceway polishing what the chinese dont, and who it is. There are so many names and marketing stratagies going on with Chinese Bearings, you will get lost in it all. At my old Company we brought in Chinese Bearings for .12 Each. We had the Stamping machines to Mark the Shields. We did PIG,GIRL,SPEED DEMONS, and several others. All were from the same manufacturing lot with different color/marked shields. Any of those weird brands are probably a .12-.18 cent bearing made by the millions with no quality control and several key manufacturing processes left out in order to sell the U.S. for .12 cents.
Bearings marked "Thailand" = NMB
Bearings marked "German" = GMN or GRW
Bearings marked "Swiss" = WIB Bearing
Someone mentioned to me SKF Bearings. SKF Bearings are manufactured in almost every country in the world. SKF no longer manufacturers miniature bearings and hasen't for over 10 years, SKF Contracts out their miniature bearings to the Miniature Bearing Manufactuers. Last year it was IKS and NTN. Could be someone different next year. SKF Specialises in Large Bearings. Don't use SKF....
. . . . . .
Yes, the Bones-Chinese[Reds] are in the same class as the other Chinese Bearings. Bones China are may be a little better than the other China or unmarked brands as far as consitancy since they probably been using the same China trading Company for years, but still is a .12-.14 cent bearing.
. . . . . . .
On your third question the smaller balls tend to brinell the bearing races easier than the larger ball will. A brinelled race will have little indends from the balls impact, basically destroying the bearing. Thicker races will make the bearing a little stronger from the standpoint of cracking the races, but that should be a rarity. But Brinelling the bearing is more common than cracking races..Should be...
As far as Bearing failure, Brinneling is one reason, Lack of proper lubrication is #1 cause for bearing failure because once you run metal on metal and balls and raceways get scored, everything will wear and fail quickly.

As far as Oust Bearings...Its another Marketing Stategy. Look, it comes down to everything I said in these bearing post as far as the bearings configuration. Notice the low end Oust MOC5 is "Carbon Steel Cage" with standard non-contacting rubber seals. Their Rolls royce is the MOC9. Here is their desciption of the Seal "The Moc 9 Buna Non-Contact Seal is set into a U-channel design in the inner and outer races to keep all foreign particles out of the ball area. It also stops any oil leakage that might occur on a standard bearing seal." THIS IS THE LABYRINTH INNER RING and seal weve been discussing that the Bones-Swiss, Black Hole Bearings have. The MOC9 also comes with a non-metalic cage....thats what makes it quicker than the MOC5. No matter what brand you like, 1) get bearings with a non-metalic cage 2) Buy the bearings with the Labyring inner ring and seal design,no matter what they may call it. Your bearings will outlast a dozen sets of the old style shielded bearings.
. . . . . . .
The Swiss and German manufacturers make their 608 with a tighter raceway curvature as well (harder to mfr.) than the Chinese. This eliminates a lot of excess axial play(end play)in the bearing.
. . . . . . .
....As far as installing, VERY good question indeed. You can ruin a bearing installing it before it turns even once on your axel. The Rule is "Only apply preasure to the ring being mounted." To put the bearing in your wheel, some people put the bearing on the axel, unside down and press the wheel on the bearing. BAD ! The pressure against the balls can brinnell the raceway if hit with too much force. Since the Outer Ring is being mounted in the Wheel you need to apply preasure to the outer ring only! Not the inner ring. I use an Old bearing that I disassembled and have the outer ring only, put it against the outer ring of the bearing being mounted, and a small block of wood and rubber mallet. As far as removing them, another good reason not to re-use the bearings. The same rule applied to dis-assembly if the bearing is to be salvaged. However, there is no way of removing the bearing using the outer ring. Even the bearing pullers must remove the bearing by pulling on the inner ring. Brinelling will not happen everytime you mis-mount the bearings, but the degree of damage can be so slight, you may not notice. Yes, I use a bearing puller when removing bearings, however, bearing pullers were desighed for alot bigger, more durable bearings. Using a Bearing Puller on a Miniature can and will cause at least microscopic damage almost every time. Remember: Only apply pressure to the ring being mounted. Alot of people ruin their bearings before they even start!!!

interesting.

If you want to save money and are interested good bearings Powel Mini Logos are your best options. They last me way longer than Bones Reds and cost much less. They aren't your fastest option, but they are fast enough.

I have also had good experiences with skf 608 industrial bearings. They are a bit complicated to buy in smaller quantities and cost about the same as Bones Reds. They last a long time and are fast.

[goodatmeth]

I've had about 5 pairs of reds and mini logos over the last 15 years and I support the hypothesis that they are the same. Definitely always recommending mini logo bearings

[GBLange]

I hv a real Bones China Reds & fake Bones China Reds

[rocklobster]

I hv a real Bones China Reds & fake Bones China Reds

Left = Real?
Right = Fake?

Have you ridden the fakes and what's your take on them?

[Srt32srt]

So after doing some quick research into the industry(mostly from reading that old forum post by the bearing engineer dude), these are a few things im fairly sure about:

- there are only a handful of bearing manufacturers in the world
- European(Swiss and German) made bearings are top quality, and will last longer, but very expensive.
- All other bearings are made in China for 10-20 cents a bearing at various factories
- There are two tiers of china bearings, 1.) non metallic bearing cage, non metallic shield(better quality, ubiquitous among "legit" skate brands) and 2.) metal bearing cage, metal shield (walmart complete bearings)
- All skateboard bearing brands buy from one of the major bearing manufacturers, slaps their shields on them, and then market them.

When people talk about their experiences with bearings that arent euro made, you almost always get wildly different feedback. From reds to andale, the reactions range from fast and lasted years to locked up in 2 weeks. To me, this indicates that the issue with non-euro bearings is inconsistent quality among anything china made, not specific brands being better or worse. Ive skated all sorts of bearings but never swiss, and to be completely honest ive never really seen much difference between any of them in terms of performance or durability which only cements my above opinion. However, reds seem to be the near universal answer to anyone who isnt going swiss, and bones/skateone have a reputation for better quality control than random bearing companies started up by enterprising pros or a deck companies bearings.


That leads to some questions, most important to me, does anyone know if say, bones reds are made in the same factory or same manufacture as bronsons(or any other skate bearing brand)? And with that in mind, even if  you presume bones china bearings may have slightly better or more consistent china factory than other brands(which is very possible based on anecdotes and general skater consensus), since Reds and mini logo are both under bones(skateone), it stands to reason that both of these bearings are made by the same manufacturer. This would mean that since these are all 10-20cent bearings there is probably virtually no meaningful difference in quality between reds and mini logo except how they are marketed. The feedback ive seen on mini-logo bearings has been generally decent, leading me to conclude with the information that I have that $10 mini logos are logically the best value in bearings if you arent going swiss.

Anyone else have insight that isnt the usual "skated [insert brand] for 2 weeks and they sucked" etc

Mini logo has steel cage which would cause more friction between the balls and cage compared to the bones Reds which have a delrin/plastic cage.

[Hyliannightmare]

If there’s a mad rush for affordable yet performance-loaded bearings, then the Bones Reds Bearings will be the first to fly off the shelves. Redz are probably the best bearings you can get without paying a fortune. Seriously, unless you're a pro in need of high performance parts, there is no reason to buy anything other than redz.

Reds and mini logos never done me wrong

[fs1/2cab]

I pretty much only rode reds for a decade, because of the things you mentioned (decent bearings for a decent price, everybody just swears on them). But my last 3 sets of reds were a bit disappointing and fell apart pretty quick.

Got some indy blacks and modus blues. And both are holding up really well, 2 years old now with regular cleaning. Modus a bit better quality as the indy's. Wanna try Mini Logo's next.

[dustyassrocketswitchv]

lube that shit up and presto!!

[Sacha]

https://www.bearings-online.co.uk/item/1580/EEC/8-Skateboard-Bearings-Ceramic-Hybrid-608-2RS-Si3N4-Replacement-Bearings.html

For anyone in the UK… Industrial bearing distributor up in Scotland who happen to do a couple of skateboarding sets. For the price of a pack of Reds might be worth a punt. EEC is their own brand and despite the name I assume they’re Chinese bearings.

[zozu]

In my opinion you should either buy Mini Logo or Bones Swiss and anything in-between is a waste of $$$.

I usually get a set of ML bearings once a year. Pop the shields then dry them out and they go hard. I can't feel any discernible difference between them and Reds.

Quantum bearings might be worth a look from what people have been saying but I won't be buying them until they are in my local shop.

[GBLange]

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I hv a real Bones China Reds & fake Bones China Reds

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Left = Real?
Right = Fake?

Have you ridden the fakes and what's your take on them?

Right is real. i don't really see a difference in performance, but then i don't do big stair/high impact tricks anymore. For cruising and slappies, they holding up pretty good. rode them with spacers. had them for a year and half now.no experience for winter/cold weather conditions though coz i'm in a tropical climate country.

[foureyedjim]

No BS, I don’t skate fast enough for any of this to matter

[IUTSM]

In my opinion you should either buy Mini Logo or Bones Swiss and anything in-between is a waste of $$$.

I usually get a set of ML bearings once a year. Pop the shields then dry them out and they go hard. I can't feel any discernible difference between them and Reds.

Quantum bearings might be worth a look from what people have been saying but I won't be buying them until they are in my local shop.

I'm just nobody important but I wanted to love those quantums and couldn't. I don't even skate hard but I skate most days and they shit out on me too quickly for my liking. Skated them for a few months, cleaned them 2 or 3 times, and while they rolled well when rolling well, I had to keep cleaning them and applying the lube to keep them rolling well and even then it wasn't as clean or fast as some worn in Swiss rolls. Not tryna knock the dudes, but you can get a set of Bones Swiss for $20 bucks more and know that even with minimal, if any, cleaning they're going to only get better with time.

[Quantum_Bearing_Science]

Quantum bearings might be worth a look from what people have been saying but I won't be buying them until they are in my local shop.

Where are you located?

I'm just nobody important but I wanted to love those quantums and couldn't. I don't even skate hard but I skate most days and they shit out on me too quickly for my liking. Skated them for a few months, cleaned them 2 or 3 times, and while they rolled well when rolling well, I had to keep cleaning them and applying the lube to keep them rolling well and even then it wasn't as clean or fast as some worn in Swiss rolls. Not tryna knock the dudes, but you can get a set of Bones Swiss for $20 bucks more and know that even with minimal, if any, cleaning they're going to only get better with time.

We’ve gone to a beefier, composite cage/retainer, in all three of our bearing series, and developed some enhancements, for those cages, to make them pretty indestructible for the abuse that skateboard bearings take (unless you take them out and purposely try to work to destroy them).
 
It also improves tolerance and any of those issues.

We think this will make our bearings pretty tough to beat in performance vs price.

I DM’d you

[manysnakes]

The point of Bones Swiss isn’t that they’re the absolute fastest bearing you’ll ever own, it’s that one set of $60 bearings will spin beautifully for several years with a little maintenance. In that time, you could expect to consume 5-10 set of $20 bearings. It’s a fool’s errand to buy the cheap shit unless you are literally living paycheck to paycheck.

The Bones Swiss 6 are probably the most technically advanced skateboard bearing ever made. It addresses all of the issues with skateboard bearings and manages to squeeze out meaningfully marginal gains over the standard Swiss bearing, which itself is light years ahead of basically everything else on the market.

Otherwise I agree with the general premise that (with some recent exceptions) nearly every Asian bearing is the same, coming from the same handful of factories. The primary difference is whether they use a delrin or metallic cage. I would choose the one with the delrin cage every single time.