Was Keenan Milton A Victim Of Manslaughter? (Apologies For The Morbidness)

[themeangreen]

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It was drugs/alcohol.

/thread

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Autopsy proved otherwise though... Also people die from alcohol poisoning for sure but it seems he was getting down on the white sack and booze. Unless hes chugging a bottle of booze (which doesn't seem to fit him) no one in a party setting that was 'not wasted' on many accounts, is not going to OD on booze. Also if the white sack was available like the story seems, Kennen would've been more tooted up than anything. People don't die from cocaine.

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Everything I heard was drowning from being under the influence. A heart attack could also happen from coke. Saw someone at a party who was found two day laters on the floor on deaths doorstep. His roommate didn’t go home with him that night, so he spent two whole days there. Coma for months.

I guess I need to rephrase. No one who wants to live until tomorrow dies from some tooters nose beers. Drug addiction is real. But to do enough yak to kill yourself isn't the easiest of tasks.

[Pete]

delete this whole shit.

mods race to delete a TNT thread anytime his dumbass gets mentioned but let shit like this rock. toys.

free max b

[D10S]

Keenan was the epitome of fresh. Style, kit, trick selection, spots. I always felt Gino's style was heavily influenced by Keenan.

I heard from someone who was there  that it was day break, the party was over and Keenan was helping to clean up. He offered to fish some trash out of the pool and in one of those dives he had a heart attack. And yes, he had been partying that night (and apparently had been in heavy party mode for a few months prior to that). 

Rest in power Keenan Milton.

[brwrxstl]

*law enforcement background*

Based on what I can see as far as what's been made public, no this isn't a manslaughter case.
There's two forms of manslaughter (voluntary and involuntary) Voluntary manslaughter would be if two guys got into an argument and it escalated to somebody shooting the other party. Since the shooting wasn't planned and only happened in the spur of the moment it lacks the mens rea (guilty mind) component of a murder which by definition is premeditated.

 Now that could change if say the victim was black and you could prove the shooter chose to escalate the situation because he was a white supremacist or something. So can a murder be spur of the moment? Sure but you need to find another way to exemplify the mens rea component like I just exemplified.


Involuntary manslaughter on the other hand is actually easier to successfully convict and that's because  there isn't that grey area when those cases go trial where a jury can debate if a case even warrants a murder charge or if manslaughter really should be murder. IE Casey Anthony. Had that case just been tried as involuntary manslaughter it was a slam dunk.  Mom likes to party, mom loses track of child, child ends up dead. It's manslaughter because she was responsible for the child, and her lack of responsibility resulted in her child's death without that intention.  Now obviously in that case there was more to her just losing track of the child but what actually happened wasn't something that could be supported by evidence hence why that case should have just gone to trial on what was actually tangible. DWI cases are another good example. Guy drives drunk, and since he knows by default drunk driving can kill another person although it's accidental his action caused the other party's death and his CLEAR lack of regard triggers that mens rea element there.


In this case though, you had a party of upwards of a thousand people, where everybody was partying, and one fucked up dude jumped off a roof and landed on somebody else. This isn't like the DWI where whoever jumped had an existing responsibility of knowledge that bound him to "knowing better" in regards to knowing whether anyone was in the pool, nor was it the owner's responsibility to assume anybody would jump off whatever this guy jumped off. So regardless of who you go after the mens rea of involuntary manslaughter doesn't exist.

Now if the pool was hosting swim trials and a guy scaled the balcony and jumped in there and killed somebody it would be different, because he understood he was risking the safety of others. But as the article mentioned the pool was littered with debris at the time. It's not what you it's what you can prove.....beyond a reasonable doubt.

Now obviously you can sue civilly for anything and maybe Keenan's family ultimately went that route but this wasn't a criminal case in way shape or form. 
Sad tragedy, but that's what this was.

[Burt Ward]

*law enforcement background*

Kooked cos ACAB

[Hefe43]

[mattchew]

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*law enforcement background*

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Kooked cos ACAB

Also the first three paragraphs are 100% unnecessary.

[DannyDee]

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the majority of people don’t understand the reality of drowning .. it happens in pure silence and is very hard to detect someone struggling even when you’re watching and waiting for it to happen . a drowned person will not float but sink and go easily unnoticed

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I'd heard that before but it never really sank in until I had to jump in to pull my niece off the bottom of a pool. I was sitting at a table maybe 10 from the pool and a group of kids were playing on the stairs. All the sudden it got silent and for some reason I stood up and looked over. My niece was at the bottom of the pool flailing in silence and the other kids were swimming down to try to get her up. I ran over and jumped in full clothes to get her out. She was down maybe a minute. Scary shit.

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When I was 10 years old I was at an end of season pool party for my little league team. One of my teammates couldn't swim very well or at all but was in the pool in the shallow end doing okay. He got a little more confident and started to make his way over to the deep end holding on to the side of the pool. During this time all the kids were making their way out of the pool because hot dogs and burgers were ready. I was still in the pool when I noticed him lose his grip and he just sank like a rock. I immediately swam down and pulled him up to where he could grab back on to the side and make his way out. No words were spoken between us, it happened so quick. It was a weird thing. There was a backyard full of parents and kids and nobody saw this happen.

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It’s so easy for something like this to happen. When I was 10 my aunts bosses kid was walking along the edge of the pool. They had different types of rock make up the coping and he was hopping from one to another and slipped in. I pulled that little fucker up before he started to sink. It was crazy. I remember not really grasping the fact that I saved his life because I didn’t have to jump in and rescue him or whatever. He fell in got soaked and came right out as fast as he went in.

You hear about some unlucky kid drowning once a year or so in a back yard pool because people just weren't paying attention for some reason. It can be the smallest of things. All it takes is 45 seconds to a minute of no one noticing someone is under water. Someone I know was a firefighter and he said the worst thing he ever saw, was a case where the grandmother wasn't paying attention to a kid (she was old, maybe not all there) for just enough time to pass for the kid to drown. So, the concept of someone not realizing Keenen was underwater until it is too late isn't unfathomable given he was a grown man, and most people were faded.

[DannyDee]

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That’s awful. And crazy that it’s been kinda swept under the rug for so long. I wonder if the people in attendance felt so bad for what actually happened they’ve offered up such a vague history. Reminds me of the Cardiel and Van Wastel thing too.

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Don't leave us hanging

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I think he’s referring to Cardiel’s Tent City accident and Van Wastel’s death, the details of which were both left pretty vague to the public for a long time (and still kind of are to some extent).

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All three incidents are examples of how everyone in those situations were so intoxicated that people got hurt or died. If there had been more sober people around, Keenan and Van would be alive and Cardiel would not be disabled.

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I don't know about the Cardiel incident. They were probably highly intoxicated, but that stunt sounds like a pretty normal thing for him to do

Also I thought that Van was locked in a hotel room by his team mates to get him off opiates and he committed suicide?

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You're kinda missing the forest in the trees here. I believe Van jumped/fell(??) because he was bugging from withdrawals...I'd chalk that up to substance abuse even if his death was self inflicted. Cardiel accident is way more vague but not a stretch to say that maybe it wouldn't have happened if people weren't faded.

The point is that substances played a significant role in all of these.

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w/d he wouldn't have suffered if his teammates didn't flush his stash. that's why it's downplayed. don't come between a man and his heroin.
[but it should be said i'm just spreading rumors that i wasn't there for like poolgate and brickgate and screwdrivergate]

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Yes blame it on his friends trying to help him. Hot take.

You should lead the charge in focusgate.

No, I don't think people fully blame his friends, but someone who is heavily addicted to heroin is going to have very serious withdrawal symptoms, which is why going cold turkey while on a skateboard trip might be an unreasonable demand. It is best to go through an addiction counselor, rehab, and sometimes methadone.

[brwrxstl]

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*law enforcement background*

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Kooked cos ACAB

you're so edgy

[links, pics, and quotes]

[brwrxstl]

Damn this was a reach. They even went after Red Bull? I feel for his family and obviously Keenan passing away left a major void in skateboarding. This was a bad look though on his family's behalf.

[Rockin Robbin]

Damn this was a reach. They even went after Red Bull? I feel for his family and obviously Keenan passing away left a major void in skateboarding. This was a bad look though on his family's behalf.

Kooked for quoting the whole thing, you fucking hard-on.

[Owen]

Pretty sure Kadijah is a female name.

I didnt read the whole transcript but guessing the family weren't successful in their lawsuit. I did notice at the end that it states that they were seeking $50 million in damages. Probably worth a shot at suing Red Bull for that kind of pay day

[SodaJerk]

Kooked for defending a major corporation that hosted a promotional event but failed to provide a level of care to its guests that resulted in a fatality.

[dooley]

Ban that pig's IP address.

[brwrxstl]

Kooked for defending a major corporation that hosted a promotional event but failed to provide a level of care to its guests that resulted in a fatality.

Your pseudo Marxism come off as really cringe worthy when you're bitching about "mAjOr CoRpOrAtiOnS" on your computer or smart phone via internet or cell service provided by actual "mAjOr cOrPorOrAtIonS" . Red Bu isn't even publicly traded yet again American. So where do you stay the line with who you demonize for drawing a profit? By that virtue I guess you don't even want the skateboard industry to exist?

And get fucking real. Red Bull sponsored an event and the event ended up having a bunch of idiots getting drunk and high so Red Bull becomes liable? It's called free choice. You can't control stupidity.  It was a freak accident. Millions happen every day.

When you can pass a GED exam and actually live out your beliefs you'll just forever be an uneducated hypocrite who cries about the wealth of others because of his own failures to attain personal success....although the most ridiculous and tired cliches imaginable.

[SodaJerk]

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Kooked for defending a major corporation that hosted a promotional event but failed to provide a level of care to its guests that resulted in a fatality.

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Your pseudo Marxism come off as really cringe worthy when you're bitching about "mAjOr CoRpOrAtiOnS" on your computer or smart phone via internet or cell service provided by actual "mAjOr cOrPorOrAtIonS" . Red Bu isn't even publicly traded yet again American. So where do you stay the line with who you demonize for drawing a profit? By that virtue I guess you don't even want the skateboard industry to exist?

And get fucking real. Red Bull sponsored an event and the event ended up having a bunch of idiots getting drunk and high so Red Bull becomes liable? It's called free choice. You can't control stupidity.  It was a freak accident. Millions happen every day.

When you can pass a GED exam and actually live out your beliefs you'll just forever be an uneducated hypocrite who cries about the wealth of others because of his own failures to attain personal success....although the most ridiculous and tired cliches imaginable.

You mad? I'm a business owner btw and if I'm hosting an event I'm responsible to provide same duty of care to the attendee's as any other company big or small. You can't stop people getting high but you can make it look like you at the very least made an effort to protect the wellbeing of your guests.

[brwrxstl]

You got all sensitive first.

And OK yes you're right in a perfect world those things should happen. But from a legal standpoint there's a reason this didn't go beyond a deposition. Also, since you own a business you should know first hand what a sponsor's involvement with an event is vs a host.

Targeting Red Bull in the lawsuit was just a dart throw I hopes of a settlement from a company with enough money to hand out a settlement.

The host of the party could've implemented things like security, etc. But look at this logically. What did they willingly fail to do with knowledge that their incompetence could result in an injury or possible death, in regards to what happened to Keenan? A guy jumped off a balcony or roof into a pool and in that pool underneath a bunch of debris was a guy he landed on. Also, I may have missed it but did the autopsy even establish if the injuries from that impact happened while he was alive? He could've drowned and then had the head and neck trauma postmortem.

But again, legal cases are about what's provable, and in the case of even third degree involuntary manslaughter, this from what we can see here was a far cry in that regard. But to your points you can make All those arguments in a civil suit which they may have done anyway.

[Hefe43]

You got all sensitive first.

And OK yes you're right in a perfect world those things should happen. But from a legal standpoint there's a reason this didn't go beyond a deposition. Also, since you own a business you should know first hand what a sponsor's involvement with an event is vs a host.

Targeting Red Bull in the lawsuit was just a dart throw I hopes of a settlement from a company with enough money to hand out a settlement.

The host of the party could've implemented things like security, etc. But look at this logically. What did they willingly fail to do with knowledge that their incompetence could result in an injury or possible death, in regards to what happened to Keenan? A guy jumped off a balcony or roof into a pool and in that pool underneath a bunch of debris was a guy he landed on. Also, I may have missed it but did the autopsy even establish if the injuries from that impact happened while he was alive? He could've drowned and then had the head and neck trauma postmortem.

But again, legal cases are about what's provable, and in the case of even third degree involuntary manslaughter, this from what we can see here was a far cry in that regard. But to your points you can make All those arguments in a civil suit which they may have done anyway.

Fuck of pig. Your bullshit know it all shtick is tiresome.

[SodaJerk]

You got all sensitive first.

And OK yes you're right in a perfect world those things should happen. But from a legal standpoint there's a reason this didn't go beyond a deposition. Also, since you own a business you should know first hand what a sponsor's involvement with an event is vs a host.

Targeting Red Bull in the lawsuit was just a dart throw I hopes of a settlement from a company with enough money to hand out a settlement.

The host of the party could've implemented things like security, etc. But look at this logically. What did they willingly fail to do with knowledge that their incompetence could result in an injury or possible death, in regards to what happened to Keenan? A guy jumped off a balcony or roof into a pool and in that pool underneath a bunch of debris was a guy he landed on. Also, I may have missed it but did the autopsy even establish if the injuries from that impact happened while he was alive? He could've drowned and then had the head and neck trauma postmortem.

But again, legal cases are about what's provable, and in the case of even third degree involuntary manslaughter, this from what we can see here was a far cry in that regard. But to your points you can make All those arguments in a civil suit which they may have done anyway.

I think you answered your own question there.

[DanTheDoucher]

"Milton, an African-American in the largely white world of skateboarding, was a team rider for Torrance-based Chocolate skateboards and Tarzana-based DVS Shoe Co.

Can someone tell me why this is mentioned, or relevant to the lawsuit/situation whatsoever?

[SodaJerk]

"Milton, an African-American in the largely white world of skateboarding, was a team rider for Torrance-based Chocolate skateboards and Tarzana-based DVS Shoe Co.

Can someone tell me why this is mentioned, or relevant to the lawsuit/situation whatsoever?

It establishes that he was a breadwinner and that his family was dependent on his income.

[no habla mango]

Red Bull made my son do cocaine and go swimming w/ white boys! pay me.

[Mr. Stinky]

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Kooked for defending a major corporation that hosted a promotional event but failed to provide a level of care to its guests that resulted in a fatality.

[close]

Your pseudo Marxism come off as really cringe worthy when you're bitching about "mAjOr CoRpOrAtiOnS" on your computer or smart phone via internet or cell service provided by actual "mAjOr cOrPorOrAtIonS" . Red Bu isn't even publicly traded yet again American. So where do you stay the line with who you demonize for drawing a profit? By that virtue I guess you don't even want the skateboard industry to exist?

And get fucking real. Red Bull sponsored an event and the event ended up having a bunch of idiots getting drunk and high so Red Bull becomes liable? It's called free choice. You can't control stupidity.  It was a freak accident. Millions happen every day.

When you can pass a GED exam and actually live out your beliefs you'll just forever be an uneducated hypocrite who cries about the wealth of others because of his own failures to attain personal success....although the most ridiculous and tired cliches imaginable.

lol, most cops are too dumb to do anything but get paid to be scared while carrying a gun, maybe pump the brakes dude 

[Bateskorder]

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Damn this was a reach. They even went after Red Bull? I feel for his family and obviously Keenan passing away left a major void in skateboarding. This was a bad look though on his family's behalf.

Only motherfucka missin from tryna get a cut is god himself. I think I even saw my own name in that suit somewhere.

[Spankthemonkey]

dude I grew up reading Kareem cambell died