Tips for learning ledges, rails, handrails, etc

[munchbox]

been stoked on jamie foy's skating for some time now. rewatched all his parts today cause of the rain and i have been dying to try some grinds. the issue is that i have little to no experience with this kind of skating, but im down to learn.

outside of the legendary nyc spots, there are tons of lesser known rails, hubbas, and ledges just crying out to be skated. keep telling myself "someday" but straight up waiting isnt doing anything to help me get there. if i could pair ledge/rail skating with some consistent flatground tricks, id be more than happy with my skating.

theres some nice shin high ledges at my local ball court, a flatbar outside my local skateshop, and im starting up a curb sometime this month if i find one nice and close.

what would be the training wheels course to learn this? what steps did you take to make progress at first? prerequisites? any tips are welcomed

[silhouette]

When you say little to no experience with that type of skating, what do you mean exactly? Would help to have a basic idea of what general stage you're at as far as ledges (the most simple out of the three obstacles you mentioned) are concerned, to give the appropriate pointers.

[munchbox]

When you say little to no experience with that type of skating, what do you mean exactly? Would help to have a basic idea of what general stage you're at as far as ledges (the most simple out of the three obstacles you mentioned) are concerned, to give the appropriate pointers.

i can slappy a curb, slash grind on tranny, bs 50-50 on tranny, a couple random coping stalls, and fs boardslide near the end of an unwaxed ledge. thats about it at the moment. never put two trucks to a ledge i couldnt roll up on, granted i havent put much effort into it yet. i stopped throwing myself recklessly at things im completely clueless with, my body wasnt liking it

[silhouette]

Frontside boardslide the end of a ledge is a good rudimentary one to have under the belt already, doing longer ones on ledges and taking them to rails is essentially the same thing but mustering the balls to actually get onto the obstacle at a scarier moment, I'd say progressively learning to do longer and longer ones by popping into it earlier (still dismounting at the end, it doesn't matter yet) could be good practice. Mid ledge dismount is a bit awkward at first and takes finesse but it's essentially a weird ollie out mixed with a front rock type of motion, so relatively accessible but maybe best kept for last. Generally speaking, starting slow and low till you figure how to lock in consistently, and then working your way up (key point, because some people find it tempting to forget to work their way up) is how it works for most ledge tricks at first.

You should start learning ollieing into 50-50's, if you can ollie up curbs it's essentially the same thing just with more specific guiding and aiming (front foot leads the ollie, shoulders/hips help align it over the edge). Start on something low so you don't really risk much when fucking up. Frontside is easier to some (me included) but working on backside simultaneously could be a good idea so you don't develop a preference that will hinder your skating later. Then 5-0 is essentially the same thing except you stay over your back leg and balance it like a manual. Nosegrinds are harder and should probably come later, but you could always toy around with how to grind them too. Anyway once you start getting 50-50's, it's super fun to start trying to 50-50 literally everything you know you can already ollie up, incrementally.

You could do noseslides but honestly I find that the feel of most backside noseslides sucks, maybe it's PTSD from doing too many of them as a kid but it's one of those tricks most people learn super early on so they struggle with it and finally, even when they can do it it's still a frustrating trick. But they should be accessible too and slappy is fun and can be taken to taller things. Frontside noseslide though is a treat and is worth learning ollieing into (which I view as as basic as a front board tap), you can do that by coming at an angle at first and then slowly dwindling said angle as you get comfortable. Backside noseslide to fakies are essentially frontside 180's with a break halfway through the trip where you just sit on it.

Crooked grinds I also have a love/hate relationship with (I much prefer them switch) but they're also easy, as long as you don't think of them as weird noseslides and instead, more as weird nosegrinds, to force yourself to really get your truck on there and put all your weight on it.

Your progression should essentially be, first learn the trick on a ledge, then a rail, then take it to handrails, at least for most tricks and if you're trying to take a safe route.

[tzhangdox]

^This is all good advice, though I'd disagree on backside noseslides. One of the easier first tricks to learn and a great staple to have in your bag, sitting on a long noseslide and popping out is still one of the most satisfying things ever.

Definitely start by finding a low, smooth ledge and learn 5050s both ways. Besides boardslides lipslides and blunts, everything is easier on a ledge so start by focusing on ledges first but you can definitely learn boardslides on flatbars while you are learning 5050s on a ledge. Handrails can wait.

Also, lose the soft wheels and get a popsicle board, at least something with a substantial nose and tail that you can easily pop a solid ollie on. Really weirdly shaped boards aren't going to do you any favours here.

[munchbox]

^This is all good advice, though I'd disagree on backside noseslides. One of the easier first tricks to learn and a great staple to have in your bag, sitting on a long noseslide and popping out is still one of the most satisfying things ever.

Definitely start by finding a low, smooth ledge and learn 5050s both ways. Besides boardslides lipslides and blunts, everything is easier on a ledge so start by focusing on ledges first but you can definitely learn boardslides on flatbars while you are learning 5050s on a ledge. Handrails can wait.

Also, lose the soft wheels and get a popsicle board, at least something with a substantial nose and tail that you can easily pop a solid ollie on. Really weirdly shaped boards aren't going to do you any favours here.

will be on the search for a low ledge. some skatepark will have one.

i only run soft wheels on my dedicated cruiser, 99a radial slims on my main setup. the shapes that i ride arent far off from popsicles at all and have normal dims. 7.0ish nose, 6.5ish tail, 14.25-14.4 wb. im not riding something like a winkowski for example

[tzhangdox]

Expand Quote

^This is all good advice, though I'd disagree on backside noseslides. One of the easier first tricks to learn and a great staple to have in your bag, sitting on a long noseslide and popping out is still one of the most satisfying things ever.

Definitely start by finding a low, smooth ledge and learn 5050s both ways. Besides boardslides lipslides and blunts, everything is easier on a ledge so start by focusing on ledges first but you can definitely learn boardslides on flatbars while you are learning 5050s on a ledge. Handrails can wait.

Also, lose the soft wheels and get a popsicle board, at least something with a substantial nose and tail that you can easily pop a solid ollie on. Really weirdly shaped boards aren't going to do you any favours here.

[close]

will be on the search for a low ledge. some skatepark will have one.

i only run soft wheels on my dedicated cruiser, 99a radial slims on my main setup. the shapes that i ride arent far off from popsicles at all and have normal dims. 7.0ish nose, 6.5ish tail, 14.25-14.4 wb. im not riding something like a winkowski for example

oh ya the polar p8 right, yeah you'll be good then just gotta go practice.

[silhouette]

^This is all good advice, though I'd disagree on backside noseslides. One of the easier first tricks to learn and a great staple to have in your bag, sitting on a long noseslide and popping out is still one of the most satisfying things ever.

That's true about the pop out part, building it up during the slide and then unleashing the nollie dismount does feel super cool. I think I may be biased and wobbly loose trucks are probably what ruined that trick for me, it's harder to feel locked in in a way that feels satisfying when your hanger reacts to being pressed against the ledge by tweaking its alignment accordingly, instead of staying in place and making for something stable you can actually comfortably sit on.

[munchbox]

Frontside boardslide the end of a ledge is a good rudimentary one to have under the belt already, doing longer ones on ledges and taking them to rails is essentially the same thing but mustering the balls to actually get onto the obstacle at a scarier moment, I'd say progressively learning to do longer and longer ones by popping into it earlier (still dismounting at the end, it doesn't matter yet) could be good practice. Mid ledge dismount is a bit awkward at first and takes finesse but it's essentially a weird ollie out mixed with a front rock type of motion, so relatively accessible but maybe best kept for last. Generally speaking, starting slow and low till you figure how to lock in consistently, and then working your way up (key point, because some people find it tempting to forget to work their way up) is how it works for most ledge tricks at first.

You should start learning ollieing into 50-50's, if you can ollie up curbs it's essentially the same thing just with more specific guiding and aiming (front foot leads the ollie, shoulders/hips help align it over the edge). Start on something low so you don't really risk much when fucking up. Frontside is easier to some (me included) but working on backside simultaneously could be a good idea so you don't develop a preference that will hinder your skating later. Then 5-0 is essentially the same thing except you stay over your back leg and balance it like a manual. Nosegrinds are harder and should probably come later, but you could always toy around with how to grind them too. Anyway once you start getting 50-50's, it's super fun to start trying to 50-50 literally everything you know you can already ollie up, incrementally.

You could do noseslides but honestly I find that the feel of most backside noseslides sucks, maybe it's PTSD from doing too many of them as a kid but it's one of those tricks most people learn super early on so they struggle with it and finally, even when they can do it it's still a frustrating trick. But they should be accessible too and slappy is fun and can be taken to taller things. Frontside noseslide though is a treat and is worth learning ollieing into (which I view as as basic as a front board tap), you can do that by coming at an angle at first and then slowly dwindling said angle as you get comfortable. Backside noseslide to fakies are essentially frontside 180's with a break halfway through the trip where you just sit on it.

Crooked grinds I also have a love/hate relationship with (I much prefer them switch) but they're also easy, as long as you don't think of them as weird noseslides and instead, more as weird nosegrinds, to force yourself to really get your truck on there and put all your weight on it.

Your progression should essentially be, first learn the trick on a ledge, then a rail, then take it to handrails, at least for most tricks and if you're trying to take a safe route.

will try and start on small curbs. tried the shin high ledges at the local and it was harder than it looked.

[rocklobster]

Expand Quote

You could do noseslides but honestly I find that the feel of most backside noseslides sucks, maybe it's PTSD from doing too many of them as a kid but it's one of those tricks most people learn super early on so they struggle with it and finally, even when they can do it it's still a frustrating trick. But they should be accessible too and slappy is fun and can be taken to taller things. Frontside noseslide though is a treat and is worth learning ollieing into (which I view as as basic as a front board tap), you can do that by coming at an angle at first and then slowly dwindling said angle as you get comfortable. Backside noseslide to fakies are essentially frontside 180's with a break halfway through the trip where you just sit on it.

[close]

These are fighting words right there!! (JK)
Noseslides were the first trick I learned and blasted the hell out of them in my youth. Still love them today, but I agree it can feel a little lame to do unless you go at them with speed and a nice pop off the end.

Couple of things I wished I learned years ago:
1) Ollie just high enough into slides / grinds. You want your board to continue the motion of the slide / grind. Ollie too high and you slam into the obstacle, causing you to stick and pitch forward. Think of the pros with the best Nosegrinds or Tailslides, they are lightly putting their truck on the surface and riding on top of the ledge.
2) Speed solves a lot of problems, learn to approach obstacles with speed which help sticking on ledges. The slower you go the more mental and physical capacity you spend trying to not stop.
3) Head and shoulders determine your board direction
4) Learn to kick your board away when you sense things aren't going to land. I fucked my right knee up by not kicking my board away in time, ended up with doing a split and landing weird on my knee.

[chris.]

Hips/shoulders/head in proper alignment is so important for really locking into fs 5050s. Get those arms up too.

When it comes to actually grinding, rocklobster's first point is so so so important.

[munchbox]

keep em coming if theres any more fellas. will be printing out this thread and bringing it to the most secluded ledge i can find

[JB]

2) Speed solves a lot of problems, learn to approach obstacles with speed which help sticking on ledges. The slower you go the more mental and physical capacity you spend trying to not stop.

I don't think going slow is useless though, especially when you're first learning. As I'm working though the process of relearning a lot of grinds, I always start super slow and just work on getting into it, then as I get more comfortable, I go faster and faster until I've got the proper speed to complete the trick.

I'd say if you were learning 5050s for the first time, make sure you at least hop onto the ledge, even it its a stall or you just stick and don't grind. Just worry about getting your trucks on, then as that becomes comfortable, go a little faster and grind it. When you've got that, add one more push and you'll be riding off the end.

[Murge]

I kinda do what was said above. I’ll find a ledge to learn on and do 50 50/crook whatever you’re working on as  stalls then slowly increase speed and decrease the angle your going at. So you’ll end up going faster and less perpendicular. Certain things working better at different angles for me. I also feel more comfortable learning grinds on low as possible ledges curbs and slides for me right below knee height feels good. Like i can boardslide a flat bar better than a parking curb. Idk why. I think something to do with having time to straighten up.

[rocklobster]

I kinda do what was said above. I’ll find a ledge to learn on and do 50 50/crook whatever you’re working on as  stalls then slowly increase speed and decrease the angle your going at. So you’ll end up going faster and less perpendicular. Certain things working better at different angles for me. I also feel more comfortable learning grinds on low as possible ledges curbs and slides for me right below knee height feels good. Like i can boardslide a flat bar better than a parking curb. Idk why. I think something to do with having time to straighten up.

Angles! Just a few degrees can make a difference, gradually going more parallel as you get more confident.

Regarding speed: not saying to try every trick at Cardiel speed but I find rolling up too slow adds unwanted elements into the learning process. Getting caught on cracks & shitty bearing that stop before you get to the obstacle.

[chris.]

As a tall dude, more speed absolutely helps me control my board more.

[CorneliusCardew]

Get or build a small box or manual pad with metal on the side edges it should be low so you can do everything on it. Maybe like curb height. Get tricks on there then transfer them to other things. Each day do the grinds systematically, frontside backside regular nollie switch fakie, eventually it will be easy.

[rocklobster]

Get or build a small box or manual pad with metal on the side edges it should be low so you can do everything on it. Maybe like curb height. Get tricks on there then transfer them to other things. Each day do the grinds systematically, frontside backside regular nollie switch fakie, eventually it will be easy.

I would say go slightly higher than a curb, maybe mid-shin height with a decent length. Too low and you're going to have a hard time popping low enough into tricks. Too high and you're going to struggle getting onto the ledge.

Get a decent length ledge if you can too, at least 7 feet if you can afford it. Getting the dismount is just as important as getting into the trick, if the ledge isn't long enough you're going to have to pop out even before you can feel the slide or grind.

More things I just thought of:
1) Don't neglect your BS tricks. I think people can be more inclined to either FS or BS, so don't neglect either one when learning. I neglected my BS tricks growing up; now I struggle with anything that isn't a BS 50-50.
2) Don't be afraid to mix up the basics. Already master your 50-50? 180 in or out of them! Then learn it both FS and BS! I think this helps with mastering body weight placement and board control. Which leads onto point #3.
3) Think about where your trucks are in relation to the ledge when doing grinds, especially 5-0s and Nosegrinds. You want to be over your front / rear trucks and balanced and ideally not scraping your nose / tail. I feel thinking of it that way helps you avoid slamming your board into the ledge. Too hard on the nose and you're sticking and getting pitched forward. Too hard on your tail and you're sticking and the board is going to be flying out from under you.
4) Back to my initial post - control the height of drag of your Ollie. Again: slamming. But also dragging your board too far into the ledge will cause your trucks to miss the lip of the ledge. Best case you miss the ledge and ride away on top of the ledge. Worse case your boards overshoots the ledge, your wheels slide on top of the ledge and you slip out, landing on your ass and eating shit. Pop light and focus on controlling your board onto the edge of the ledge.