Brand Mistakes

[TheLurper]

A group of old men running the business not realizing what they think is cool doesn't need to be respected by the younger generation.

Just cause you were "cool" in 1995 doesn't mean you are cool decades later. Nor does it mean you can dictate cool to the younger generation.

[HORSES]

The chief letting Chris Cole, John Fitzgerald,  donovan piscopo,  and Franky Villiani get away.

He never had a chance to keep any of them.

[Little Debbie]

A group of old men running the business not realizing what they think is cool doesn't need to be respected by the younger generation.

Just cause you were "cool" in 1995 doesn't mean you are cool decades later. Nor does it mean you can dictate cool to the younger generation.

yeah i think a lot of brand owners are still mistakenly operating under the assumption that "these kids don't know what cool is, we'll show them what's cool". maybe that worked in the 90s and early 2000s when skate media was just less prevalent. doesn't work like that anymore with every kid having a smartphone and being bombarded with content.

[Big Baby Jesus]

Not sending 10 boards.

[pizzafliptofakie]

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My head spins when I think about the current state of eS. How are they not marketing the fuck out of Wade Desarmo or Tom Asta? Give them shoes. Film a promo. Do fucking ANYTHING to make people give a shit.

[close]

even a 10 minute promo of Wade and Tom would do wonders. those dudes are some of the smoothest operators around but you wouldn't know from eS' standpoint. but, it would need to be filmed consistently and edited really well and up to eS' old aesthetic/visual standards, and I don't even know if eS has a staff filmer. their ads in 411 and ON from back in the early to mid 2000s looked pro and seemed well done. idk if it's a lack of money or political will or both, but that would need to happen to make me even consider giving them my money nowadays. current eS is a sad and lame excuse of a skate footwear company. especially for those of us old enough to know how on top and respected they were at one point.

We'll never get another Menikmati or any big production like that, but I refuse to believe that they can't afford a decent filmer. They're still under Sole Tech, which isn't some rinky dink operation even in today's shoe climate. There are much smaller brands out there that have a decent media presence right now. To it seems like they can't decide on what kind of company they want to be so instead of going in a direction that would appeal to anybody they just halfheartedly exist. I mentioned their weird attempt at being a nostalgia brand earlier and it just really rubs me the wrong way. DC's been playing pretty heavily into their roots, but at least their reissues are proper and they're involving people who were actually there. Their Menikmati thing they're doing feels the same as it would if I were to buy a Video Days graphic with Carlos Ruiz's name on it.

[rosemaryBB]

being a wknd polar palace bronze 917 clone  having random bullshit  in your skate videos only selling 8.5+  boards with artsy graphics having a team that all skates the same way

I wonder what it's like to have such bad taste that you think everyone on Wknd, Polar, Palace, Bronze, and 917 skate the same.

Also Polar graphics are sick, they're the most like the best graphics that existed in the 90's without being just nostalgia worship for the time period. Would take that over whatever bogus cartoony ass drawing of x y or z team member as like a fucking fast food icon or character from a movie or whatever the fuck most other board companies put out

[JordanBrambleberry]

Buy products from the brands YOU like in whatever manner you prefer! It’s only skateboarding! Like others have said, it’s an entrepreneurial industry, you don’t owe loyalty to anybody that wants to sell you something.

[formula420]

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My head spins when I think about the current state of eS. How are they not marketing the fuck out of Wade Desarmo or Tom Asta? Give them shoes. Film a promo. Do fucking ANYTHING to make people give a shit.

[close]

even a 10 minute promo of Wade and Tom would do wonders. those dudes are some of the smoothest operators around but you wouldn't know from eS' standpoint. but, it would need to be filmed consistently and edited really well and up to eS' old aesthetic/visual standards, and I don't even know if eS has a staff filmer. their ads in 411 and ON from back in the early to mid 2000s looked pro and seemed well done. idk if it's a lack of money or political will or both, but that would need to happen to make me even consider giving them my money nowadays. current eS is a sad and lame excuse of a skate footwear company. especially for those of us old enough to know how on top and respected they were at one point.

Wade had a colorway of the accel slim mid and it hit the bargain bin so quick they were cheaper than the regular models. Not sure he is a savior.

[too fakie]

Sell AWS to Burton.

Nah, I’m only half serious. Obviously some really cool stuff came out of that, like Mindfield and the Gravis skate program. But extended out on a long enough timeline, you could call that the beginning of the end.

[pizzafliptofakie]

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My head spins when I think about the current state of eS. How are they not marketing the fuck out of Wade Desarmo or Tom Asta? Give them shoes. Film a promo. Do fucking ANYTHING to make people give a shit.

[close]

even a 10 minute promo of Wade and Tom would do wonders. those dudes are some of the smoothest operators around but you wouldn't know from eS' standpoint. but, it would need to be filmed consistently and edited really well and up to eS' old aesthetic/visual standards, and I don't even know if eS has a staff filmer. their ads in 411 and ON from back in the early to mid 2000s looked pro and seemed well done. idk if it's a lack of money or political will or both, but that would need to happen to make me even consider giving them my money nowadays. current eS is a sad and lame excuse of a skate footwear company. especially for those of us old enough to know how on top and respected they were at one point.

[close]

Wade had a colorway of the accel slim mid and it hit the bargain bin so quick they were cheaper than the regular models. Not sure he is a savior.

Takes more to sell a shoe than just making one.

[squintharder]

Pizza is a giant fucking mistake

[TastyBurrito]

Pizza is a giant fucking mistake

The pizza I ordered last night was most def not a mistake. Parm/Moz/Ricotta. So good.

[fakie nollie]

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My head spins when I think about the current state of eS. How are they not marketing the fuck out of Wade Desarmo or Tom Asta? Give them shoes. Film a promo. Do fucking ANYTHING to make people give a shit.

[close]

even a 10 minute promo of Wade and Tom would do wonders. those dudes are some of the smoothest operators around but you wouldn't know from eS' standpoint. but, it would need to be filmed consistently and edited really well and up to eS' old aesthetic/visual standards, and I don't even know if eS has a staff filmer. their ads in 411 and ON from back in the early to mid 2000s looked pro and seemed well done. idk if it's a lack of money or political will or both, but that would need to happen to make me even consider giving them my money nowadays. current eS is a sad and lame excuse of a skate footwear company. especially for those of us old enough to know how on top and respected they were at one point.

[close]

We'll never get another Menikmati or any big production like that, but I refuse to believe that they can't afford a decent filmer. They're still under Sole Tech, which isn't some rinky dink operation even in today's shoe climate. There are much smaller brands out there that have a decent media presence right now. To it seems like they can't decide on what kind of company they want to be so instead of going in a direction that would appeal to anybody they just halfheartedly exist. I mentioned their weird attempt at being a nostalgia brand earlier and it just really rubs me the wrong way. DC's been playing pretty heavily into their roots, but at least their reissues are proper and they're involving people who were actually there. Their Menikmati thing they're doing feels the same as it would if I were to buy a Video Days graphic with Carlos Ruiz's name on it.

They need a TM who has enough pride in the brand and discipline to make them strong and stand out. You have a killer team. Fucking do something with them before they get plucked by TM's who know how to use good talent.

YOU CAN'T JUST GIGGLE YOUR WAY TO SUCCESS, KELLY

[heckler]

Expand Quote

A group of old men running the business not realizing what they think is cool doesn't need to be respected by the younger generation.

Just cause you were "cool" in 1995 doesn't mean you are cool decades later. Nor does it mean you can dictate cool to the younger generation.

[close]

yeah i think a lot of brand owners are still mistakenly operating under the assumption that "these kids don't know what cool is, we'll show them what's cool". maybe that worked in the 90s and early 2000s when skate media was just less prevalent. doesn't work like that anymore with every kid having a smartphone and being bombarded with content.

A huge majority of the skateboarding industry and basically every legacy brand operates like this.

[veritas]

Whatever Girl / Choco did to make 80% of the original teams quit

[skatingisntspecialstupid]

Owen Wilson in Yeah Right was a mistake and a sign of things to come.

[silhouette]

Not supporting cultural platforms (mags, websites) nearly enough unless they turn into catalogs (and even then...), and considering them as mere replaceable ad space. Many platforms are currently in the process of going down because of co-vid serving as an excuse for advertisers to withdraw their yearly budget (that they will most likely blow on other shit anyway) and it's devastating. I'm also not talking about small struggling brands here.

[Lenny the Fatface]

Not feeling the "lets release our video at the end of the year so one dude has a better chance to win SOTY" logic even though half of America can't skate because of the weather.

[rusty knees]

pay your fucking riders or be honest with them

[Reed Richards]

Don't stray too far from your roots.  I know that the financial goal is to sell soft goods to people that don't skate in order to stay afloat.  Hell, even Primitive's numerous collaborations helps maintain their massive team.  But some shit...

[fang]

Not sending 10 bloards.

[squintharder]

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My head spins when I think about the current state of eS. How are they not marketing the fuck out of Wade Desarmo or Tom Asta? Give them shoes. Film a promo. Do fucking ANYTHING to make people give a shit.

[close]

even a 10 minute promo of Wade and Tom would do wonders. those dudes are some of the smoothest operators around but you wouldn't know from eS' standpoint. but, it would need to be filmed consistently and edited really well and up to eS' old aesthetic/visual standards, and I don't even know if eS has a staff filmer. their ads in 411 and ON from back in the early to mid 2000s looked pro and seemed well done. idk if it's a lack of money or political will or both, but that would need to happen to make me even consider giving them my money nowadays. current eS is a sad and lame excuse of a skate footwear company. especially for those of us old enough to know how on top and respected they were at one point.

[close]

We'll never get another Menikmati or any big production like that, but I refuse to believe that they can't afford a decent filmer. They're still under Sole Tech, which isn't some rinky dink operation even in today's shoe climate. There are much smaller brands out there that have a decent media presence right now. To it seems like they can't decide on what kind of company they want to be so instead of going in a direction that would appeal to anybody they just halfheartedly exist. I mentioned their weird attempt at being a nostalgia brand earlier and it just really rubs me the wrong way. DC's been playing pretty heavily into their roots, but at least their reissues are proper and they're involving people who were actually there. Their Menikmati thing they're doing feels the same as it would if I were to buy a Video Days graphic with Carlos Ruiz's name on it.

[close]

They need a TM who has enough pride in the brand and discipline to make them strong and stand out. You have a killer team. Fucking do something with them before they get plucked by TM's who know how to use good talent.

YOU CAN'T JUST GIGGLE YOUR WAY TO SUCCESS, KELLY

Kelly seems like a good dude but he's blowin it for eS. Fuck off with the colorways, stop feeding off the legacy shit, stop relying so heavily on Instagram clips and make a fucking video.

[pizzafliptofakie]

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Expand Quote

My head spins when I think about the current state of eS. How are they not marketing the fuck out of Wade Desarmo or Tom Asta? Give them shoes. Film a promo. Do fucking ANYTHING to make people give a shit.

[close]

even a 10 minute promo of Wade and Tom would do wonders. those dudes are some of the smoothest operators around but you wouldn't know from eS' standpoint. but, it would need to be filmed consistently and edited really well and up to eS' old aesthetic/visual standards, and I don't even know if eS has a staff filmer. their ads in 411 and ON from back in the early to mid 2000s looked pro and seemed well done. idk if it's a lack of money or political will or both, but that would need to happen to make me even consider giving them my money nowadays. current eS is a sad and lame excuse of a skate footwear company. especially for those of us old enough to know how on top and respected they were at one point.

[close]

We'll never get another Menikmati or any big production like that, but I refuse to believe that they can't afford a decent filmer. They're still under Sole Tech, which isn't some rinky dink operation even in today's shoe climate. There are much smaller brands out there that have a decent media presence right now. To it seems like they can't decide on what kind of company they want to be so instead of going in a direction that would appeal to anybody they just halfheartedly exist. I mentioned their weird attempt at being a nostalgia brand earlier and it just really rubs me the wrong way. DC's been playing pretty heavily into their roots, but at least their reissues are proper and they're involving people who were actually there. Their Menikmati thing they're doing feels the same as it would if I were to buy a Video Days graphic with Carlos Ruiz's name on it.

[close]

They need a TM who has enough pride in the brand and discipline to make them strong and stand out. You have a killer team. Fucking do something with them before they get plucked by TM's who know how to use good talent.

YOU CAN'T JUST GIGGLE YOUR WAY TO SUCCESS, KELLY

[close]

Kelly seems like a good dude but he's blowin it for eS. Fuck off with the colorways, stop feeding off the legacy shit, stop relying so heavily on Instagram clips and make a fucking video.

I don't doubt Kelly's sincerity about how much he loves eS. He brings it up almost as much as he brings up 411. I just think of all the (relatively speaking) bigger companies present in skateboarding that eS are doing the worst at marketing themselves. People like dogging on Crail on here, but I'd put them a few notches above eS in terms of branding. I remember a Nine Club episode where Roger was saying that they should make filming trips happen and not be stagnant and Kelly reacted as if he were just asked to fly to the moon. If that's your attitude about making people care about your brand then don't go crying about other companies when they survive and you don't, which is absolutely what will happen if/when eS goes out of business again.


Credit where credit is due:  I think Emerica does a good job at marketing themselves and having an everlasting presence in a rapidly changing industry. You can have whatever opinions you want about their shoes or team, but they're still pumping out good videos and product that at least SOME people care about. They do whole ad campaigns when they give someone a shoe and imo they do it in a pretty effective way. I also think it's really cool of EmericaTM to come on here and actually stick around. It's a little thing, but I bet that alone has sold a few posters here on some Emericas. And that's pretty neat.

[primitive_rage]

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being a wknd polar palace bronze 917 clone  having random bullshit  in your skate videos only selling 8.5+  boards with artsy graphics having a team that all skates the same way

[close]

I wonder what it's like to have such bad taste that you think everyone on Wknd, Polar, Palace, Bronze, and 917 skate the same.

Also Polar graphics are sick, they're the most like the best graphics that existed in the 90's without being just nostalgia worship for the time period. Would take that over whatever bogus cartoony ass drawing of x y or z team member as like a fucking fast food icon or character from a movie or whatever the fuck most other board companies put out

[Nanda Zinger]

The only mistake in brand history is Mikey Alfred.

[DannyDee]

Crailtap not offering Danny Brady and Nick Jensen full spots on Girl or Chocolate after the fall of Blueprint (its indicated they only got offered Bro-flow). Although as a fan of both, it worked out amazingly for both.

[too fakie]

Whatever Girl / Choco did to make 80% of the original teams quit

What brand do you expect to see with a high % of the original riders still on the team after 25+ years?

Yes, they’ve had a lot of people come and go over the years, but as far as “original” riders I can only think of Guy, Koston, and Chico who have quit. Everyone else either got kicked off or retired.

[brwrxstl]

Crailtap is low hanging fruit at this point.

My head spins when I think about the current state of eS. They were monumentally influential in their heyday and consistently had a good team before their "hiatus". They let people like Rick McCrank, Mike Anderson, and Bobby Worrest (who made Venture trucks cool again) slip away from their fingers, and in turn their posterboy now is fucking Kelly Hart. They sorta try to market as a "nostalgia brand", but they fuck up their reissues and alienate the few people who would actually be interested in them in the first place. Lately it seems like they care more to market their team of like 20 years ago than they do their team now. How are they not marketing the fuck out of Wade Desarmo or Tom Asta? Give them shoes. Film a promo. Do fucking ANYTHING to make people give a shit. Don't just bank on Menikmati nostalgia if nobody from that video is even around. I'm browsing the team page now and the riders' video highlights are mostly just Nine Club tidbits. And you can't really argue that the Nine Club association is good branding because nobody on the show but Kelly seems to give a shit about the company at all. Roger outright rolls his eyes half the time Kelly tries to bring up eS. I often see people complain about companies like Emerica lacking diversity or not having interesting product, but at least with Emerica they have a team and an image that they market the fuck out of. They have SOME media presence in skateboarding. Even if it's not your thing, it's at least appealing to somebody. I don't know who eS is trying to appeal to other than people browsing the sale section on CCS.

yeah to all of this.

The e's name and logo still has brand value too that's the sad thing.  But they just can't get it right between marketing and the shit they're actually putting out. It's a shame too. You would think with the nostalgia for the early 2000's shit jumping off right now e's would be killing it and they could be. I think they've been close to getting it right with certain things like their apparel line has actually been good, and a couple of shoes like the silo and swift 1.5 (horrible name aside) but then you look at shit like the sparta and symbol and it makes you hate their entire direction. The fact that they're putting out a million colorways for every shoe is a bad look too.

Make the stuff feel more limited, modernize and stylize the designs in a more minimal fashion, and market the team around a couple of OG riders and maybe just make the rest of the team up of european guys. I think that whole market would be their best bet to focus on right now.

It's unfortunate they can't afford to pry scott johnston from adidas because what he's doing there would  be a great direction for e's. I think they can learn a lot from nb# too.

 

[TRSP]

Just add to the Crailtap comments. The reason why Crailtap was releavant for so long was because the image they had was cool and fun. And they had a good time Rick, Eric, Mike, and McCrank are were all goofy in their prime and the footage they put out was really good so people flocked to their company's. However in recent years I want to say around 2009-2010 is when it started they got old and they slowly became out of touch. A Reason why Koston left, If you do a little bit of digging. Basically what happened is Rick Howard got spooked at the direction of the skateboard industry and wanted to partner with an investment firm I.E. Altamont Captial to secure funding for the brands at the time I do not know the specifics however the way the information plays out is the deal they had was not good for the company and Koston saw that. Now lets remind ourselves Koston was one of the original riders you could even say one of the original founders though he was not an owner he was close to it and I think the deal made him feel like he had no say and he realized he was not a part of the company the way he might of thought which led to his departure. I feel like the problem they have is they are still caught up in celebrity mentality even putting Tony Hawk on... The collabs they do dont help either. Crailtap is a company from my perception is like your small warehouse OG skateboard company that is lowkey and have a good time. But they do not want that instead they want to be a powerhouse like they were and it is just not going to happen anytime soon If ever. It is old news and I know we all are moving on. With that being said does Kalis still post on SLAP? 

Edit----- Information
https://www.freeskatemag.com/2016/03/10/eric-koston-interview/
http://www.boardsportsource.com/2015/02/18/girl-skateboards-ceo-details-partnership-with-altamont-capital/

[Utopos]

Just add to the Crailtap comments. The reason why Crailtap was releavant for so long was because the image they had was cool and fun. And they had a good time Rick, Eric, Mike, and McCrank are were all goofy in their prime and the footage they put out was really good so people flocked to their company's. However in recent years I want to say around 2009-2010 is when it started they got old and they slowly became out of touch. A Reason why Koston left, If you do a little bit of digging. Basically what happened is Rick Howard got spooked at the direction of the skateboard industry and wanted to partner with an investment firm I.E. Altamont Captial to secure funding for the brands at the time I do not know the specifics however the way the information plays out is the deal they had was not good for the company and Koston saw that. Now lets remind ourselves Koston was one of the original riders you could even say one of the original founders though he was not an owner he was close to it and I think the deal made him feel like he had no say and he realized he was not a part of the company the way he might of thought which led to his departure. I feel like the problem they have is they are still caught up in celebrity mentality even putting Tony Hawk on... The collabs they do dont help either. Crailtap is a company from my perception is like your small warehouse OG skateboard company that is lowkey and have a good time. But they do not want that instead they want to be a powerhouse like they were and it is just not going to happen anytime soon If ever. It is old news and I know we all are moving on. With that being said does Kalis still post on SLAP?

You make a valid point, but I think Koston is far from being a marketing genius, just look at numbers brand identity.