Brand Mistakes

[Billy Bitchcakes]

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My head spins when I think about the current state of eS. How are they not marketing the fuck out of Wade Desarmo or Tom Asta? Give them shoes. Film a promo. Do fucking ANYTHING to make people give a shit.

[close]

even a 10 minute promo of Wade and Tom would do wonders. those dudes are some of the smoothest operators around but you wouldn't know from eS' standpoint. but, it would need to be filmed consistently and edited really well and up to eS' old aesthetic/visual standards, and I don't even know if eS has a staff filmer. their ads in 411 and ON from back in the early to mid 2000s looked pro and seemed well done. idk if it's a lack of money or political will or both, but that would need to happen to make me even consider giving them my money nowadays. current eS is a sad and lame excuse of a skate footwear company. especially for those of us old enough to know how on top and respected they were at one point.

[close]

We'll never get another Menikmati or any big production like that, but I refuse to believe that they can't afford a decent filmer. They're still under Sole Tech, which isn't some rinky dink operation even in today's shoe climate. There are much smaller brands out there that have a decent media presence right now. To it seems like they can't decide on what kind of company they want to be so instead of going in a direction that would appeal to anybody they just halfheartedly exist. I mentioned their weird attempt at being a nostalgia brand earlier and it just really rubs me the wrong way. DC's been playing pretty heavily into their roots, but at least their reissues are proper and they're involving people who were actually there. Their Menikmati thing they're doing feels the same as it would if I were to buy a Video Days graphic with Carlos Ruiz's name on it.

[close]

They need a TM who has enough pride in the brand and discipline to make them strong and stand out. You have a killer team. Fucking do something with them before they get plucked by TM's who know how to use good talent.

YOU CAN'T JUST GIGGLE YOUR WAY TO SUCCESS, KELLY

[close]

Kelly seems like a good dude but he's blowin it for eS. Fuck off with the colorways, stop feeding off the legacy shit, stop relying so heavily on Instagram clips and make a fucking video.

[close]

I don't doubt Kelly's sincerity about how much he loves eS. He brings it up almost as much as he brings up 411. I just think of all the (relatively speaking) bigger companies present in skateboarding that eS are doing the worst at marketing themselves. People like dogging on Crail on here, but I'd put them a few notches above eS in terms of branding. I remember a Nine Club episode where Roger was saying that they should make filming trips happen and not be stagnant and Kelly reacted as if he were just asked to fly to the moon. If that's your attitude about making people care about your brand then don't go crying about other companies when they survive and you don't, which is absolutely what will happen if/when eS goes out of business again.


Credit where credit is due:  I think Emerica does a good job at marketing themselves and having an everlasting presence in a rapidly changing industry. You can have whatever opinions you want about their shoes or team, but they're still pumping out good videos and product that at least SOME people care about. They do whole ad campaigns when they give someone a shoe and imo they do it in a pretty effective way. I also think it's really cool of EmericaTM to come on here and actually stick around. It's a little thing, but I bet that alone has sold a few posters here on some Emericas. And that's pretty neat.

I wonder if they'd all benefit if Soletech unified the three brands a bit more. Like not turning them in to one brand but maybe if they tried to brand Soletech itself a bit more as an umbrella company then collectively the three companies together might look bigger on the stage next to Nike, Adidas, Vans etc. The cross promotion might mean that for example people that aren't into the Emerica vibe could be more likely to look at es when they might not have known much about them before. They could share resources better and even make a powerhouse video with a few riders from each team.

[TRSP]

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Just add to the Crailtap comments. The reason why Crailtap was releavant for so long was because the image they had was cool and fun. And they had a good time Rick, Eric, Mike, and McCrank are were all goofy in their prime and the footage they put out was really good so people flocked to their company's. However in recent years I want to say around 2009-2010 is when it started they got old and they slowly became out of touch. A Reason why Koston left, If you do a little bit of digging. Basically what happened is Rick Howard got spooked at the direction of the skateboard industry and wanted to partner with an investment firm I.E. Altamont Captial to secure funding for the brands at the time I do not know the specifics however the way the information plays out is the deal they had was not good for the company and Koston saw that. Now lets remind ourselves Koston was one of the original riders you could even say one of the original founders though he was not an owner he was close to it and I think the deal made him feel like he had no say and he realized he was not a part of the company the way he might of thought which led to his departure. I feel like the problem they have is they are still caught up in celebrity mentality even putting Tony Hawk on... The collabs they do dont help either. Crailtap is a company from my perception is like your small warehouse OG skateboard company that is lowkey and have a good time. But they do not want that instead they want to be a powerhouse like they were and it is just not going to happen anytime soon If ever. It is old news and I know we all are moving on. With that being said does Kalis still post on SLAP?

[close]

You make a valid point, but I think Koston is far from being a marketing genius, just look at numbers brand identity.

Oh yea no way he is a marketing genius I was just saying he knew what selling out to Altamont Capital could do to Girl Skateboards and he was against it but he had no say over it and with everything he has done for the company at that point he was just over it. But I would like to add the reason why I touched on the Koston debacle was because it shows the priority off Girl Skateboards and the mentality they have behind the approach they bring to the market. I mean whatever. Its just a skateboard company.

[pizzafliptofakie]

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My head spins when I think about the current state of eS. How are they not marketing the fuck out of Wade Desarmo or Tom Asta? Give them shoes. Film a promo. Do fucking ANYTHING to make people give a shit.

[close]

even a 10 minute promo of Wade and Tom would do wonders. those dudes are some of the smoothest operators around but you wouldn't know from eS' standpoint. but, it would need to be filmed consistently and edited really well and up to eS' old aesthetic/visual standards, and I don't even know if eS has a staff filmer. their ads in 411 and ON from back in the early to mid 2000s looked pro and seemed well done. idk if it's a lack of money or political will or both, but that would need to happen to make me even consider giving them my money nowadays. current eS is a sad and lame excuse of a skate footwear company. especially for those of us old enough to know how on top and respected they were at one point.

[close]

We'll never get another Menikmati or any big production like that, but I refuse to believe that they can't afford a decent filmer. They're still under Sole Tech, which isn't some rinky dink operation even in today's shoe climate. There are much smaller brands out there that have a decent media presence right now. To it seems like they can't decide on what kind of company they want to be so instead of going in a direction that would appeal to anybody they just halfheartedly exist. I mentioned their weird attempt at being a nostalgia brand earlier and it just really rubs me the wrong way. DC's been playing pretty heavily into their roots, but at least their reissues are proper and they're involving people who were actually there. Their Menikmati thing they're doing feels the same as it would if I were to buy a Video Days graphic with Carlos Ruiz's name on it.

[close]

They need a TM who has enough pride in the brand and discipline to make them strong and stand out. You have a killer team. Fucking do something with them before they get plucked by TM's who know how to use good talent.

YOU CAN'T JUST GIGGLE YOUR WAY TO SUCCESS, KELLY

[close]

Kelly seems like a good dude but he's blowin it for eS. Fuck off with the colorways, stop feeding off the legacy shit, stop relying so heavily on Instagram clips and make a fucking video.

[close]

I don't doubt Kelly's sincerity about how much he loves eS. He brings it up almost as much as he brings up 411. I just think of all the (relatively speaking) bigger companies present in skateboarding that eS are doing the worst at marketing themselves. People like dogging on Crail on here, but I'd put them a few notches above eS in terms of branding. I remember a Nine Club episode where Roger was saying that they should make filming trips happen and not be stagnant and Kelly reacted as if he were just asked to fly to the moon. If that's your attitude about making people care about your brand then don't go crying about other companies when they survive and you don't, which is absolutely what will happen if/when eS goes out of business again.


Credit where credit is due:  I think Emerica does a good job at marketing themselves and having an everlasting presence in a rapidly changing industry. You can have whatever opinions you want about their shoes or team, but they're still pumping out good videos and product that at least SOME people care about. They do whole ad campaigns when they give someone a shoe and imo they do it in a pretty effective way. I also think it's really cool of EmericaTM to come on here and actually stick around. It's a little thing, but I bet that alone has sold a few posters here on some Emericas. And that's pretty neat.

[close]

I wonder if they'd all benefit if Soletech unified the three brands a bit more. Like not turning them in to one brand but maybe if they tried to brand Soletech itself a bit more as an umbrella company then collectively the three companies together might look bigger on the stage next to Nike, Adidas, Vans etc. The cross promotion might mean that for example people that aren't into the Emerica vibe could be more likely to look at es when they might not have known much about them before. They could share resources better and even make a powerhouse video with a few riders from each team.

Perhaps. I have no idea how Sole Tech's individual brands operate but I refuse to believe that they don't have the means to do stuff like film. They're in California; they could walk out their front door and throw a rock and they'd probably hit a filmer.


One thing I wanna add is that before their hiatus I fucking LOVED eS. Them and Emerica were my go to shoes and I had tons of pairs. Even their later phase (eSpecial era, etc.) was really good in my opinion. Honestly, I don't even have all that much nostalgia for Menikmati personally, though I obviously recognize its significance. I think Worrest's shoe was the last pair I had and they skated great. Remember being sold on them after this part.









I don't think eS needs to reinvent the wheel or anything but they should at least roll. If they wanna be a nostalgia brand fine, but at least do it proper.

[Big Baby Jesus]

És biggest problem besides their apathy towards putting out edits, is their inability to release any shoe, remotely close, to what everyone wants. Creagers and k1s. Also the sal 23 should have stayed in the line with one or two colorways a season. They're putting out like 10 colors of the Accel slim so cut it in half and do what the people want.

[Giza Butler]

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Just add to the Crailtap comments. The reason why Crailtap was releavant for so long was because the image they had was cool and fun. And they had a good time Rick, Eric, Mike, and McCrank are were all goofy in their prime and the footage they put out was really good so people flocked to their company's. However in recent years I want to say around 2009-2010 is when it started they got old and they slowly became out of touch. A Reason why Koston left, If you do a little bit of digging. Basically what happened is Rick Howard got spooked at the direction of the skateboard industry and wanted to partner with an investment firm I.E. Altamont Captial to secure funding for the brands at the time I do not know the specifics however the way the information plays out is the deal they had was not good for the company and Koston saw that. Now lets remind ourselves Koston was one of the original riders you could even say one of the original founders though he was not an owner he was close to it and I think the deal made him feel like he had no say and he realized he was not a part of the company the way he might of thought which led to his departure. I feel like the problem they have is they are still caught up in celebrity mentality even putting Tony Hawk on... The collabs they do dont help either. Crailtap is a company from my perception is like your small warehouse OG skateboard company that is lowkey and have a good time. But they do not want that instead they want to be a powerhouse like they were and it is just not going to happen anytime soon If ever. It is old news and I know we all are moving on. With that being said does Kalis still post on SLAP?

[close]

You make a valid point, but I think Koston is far from being a marketing genius, just look at numbers brand identity.

[close]

Oh yea no way he is a marketing genius I was just saying he knew what selling out to Altamont Capital could do to Girl Skateboards and he was against it but he had no say over it and with everything he has done for the company at that point he was just over it. But I would like to add the reason why I touched on the Koston debacle was because it shows the priority off Girl Skateboards and the mentality they have behind the approach they bring to the market. I mean whatever. Its just a skateboard company.

Wasn't Koston pissed off because he wanted a share of the company and instead of him, his friends chose a big investment firm?

Remember that surely he was swimming in money at that point.

[Masshole]

what is a  f a n c y l a d clone?
[/quote]

fancy lad is the shit

[Utopos]

what is a  f a n c y l a d clone?

fancy lad is the shit
[/quote]

Again, someone looking for the unpopular opinion thread.

[winecrab]

WKND not acting like a real brand and letting Austyn leave. Without him now Johan is the face of the company and I just can't have that.

[GuessAgain?]

Crailtap not offering Danny Brady and Nick Jensen full spots on Girl or Chocolate after the fall of Blueprint (its indicated they only got offered Bro-flow). Although as a fan of both, it worked out amazingly for both.

hahaha Jesus Christ. Imagine that, pretty sweet must've been enough to put a lot of people off.

Now they have any brand's dream saviour, Andrew Brophy so that's something.. lol

[Tear Up a Trick]

Thinking you could beat Rocco at his own game was a mistake

[CossRooper]

It seems obvious to me that eS dumped their whole squad in order to reset. What their doing now, post-reset, is releasing a couple of shoes a season on a shoestring budget, trying to do their best to make a few bucks off brand recognition and cheap, guerrilla style marketing. It just seems so clear that they are not trying to have a proper shoe program in the traditional sense, no big videos, no huge shoe lines, no traditional ads, etc. I think they're experimenting with that a little bit. It's deliberate, not a mistake, but who knows if its turning a profit for them.

I am hesitant to take this position of "make a fucking video, build a proper team like every other company" because that model doesn't have to be the only model. And that model clearly didn't work out beyond a decade/decade and a half for other skater-owned shoe brands like Lakai, who all had to fall back on third party capital to survive, or just died outright like Adio. So i can't fault sole tech for trying something different than the "accepted" model with eS.

[pizzafliptofakie]

It seems obvious to me that eS dumped their whole squad in order to reset. What their doing now, post-reset, is releasing a couple of shoes a season on a shoestring budget, trying to do their best to make a few bucks off brand recognition and cheap, guerrilla style marketing. It just seems so clear that they are not trying to have a proper shoe program in the traditional sense, no big videos, no huge shoe lines, no traditional ads, etc. I think they're experimenting with that a little bit. It's deliberate, not a mistake, but who knows if its turning a profit for them.

I am hesitant to take this position of "make a fucking video, build a proper team like every other company" because that model doesn't have to be the only model. And that model clearly didn't work out beyond a decade/decade and a half for other skater-owned shoe brands like Lakai, who all had to fall back on third party capital to survive, or just died outright like Adio. So i can't fault sole tech for trying something different than the "accepted" model with eS.

If they wanna go outside the traditional model fine, but they're not even doing that well. They have way too many shoes for them to feel "limited". I'm on their main page right now and they have 19 different Accel Slims alone, and they're priced upwards of $85. Then on top of that they try and do special "heritage" drops but they ruin those too, so they don't even appeal to a nostalgic consumer, nevermind a modern one. DC's heritage line is doing really well because the models are faithful to the originals and there's still people around to actually represent them like Kalis. Shit, even the revamped Fallen has more going for them in terms of tapping into nostaliga. For all intents and purposes, Kelly Hart is just some guy who liked eS, and who gives a shit about that?



I don't think they need to do the "big team big video" thing either, but I don't think they should just do nothing either. Why even have a team at all if you're not gonna make it seem like it even matters? I mean, shit, I just went on their Insta and they're still posting about Eric Koston, and he hasn't been on their team in like 15 years. After hopping around a bit it looks like the only OG who still fucks with eS at all is Ronnie Creager, but you wouldn't know that from browsing eS's social media. If you're not gonna push your own squad in favor of those around from the "golden days", at least push somebody who seems like they might give a shit.


When they went under the first time they cried wolf wearing Swooshes, and if their current operation fails you know they will again.

[lilboosie]

[MusclesMarinara]

Maybe it's just me but eS seems to be fine. They have their market and they cater to it. When you lose all your superstars to the big 3 shoe companies it's a wonder they even came back at all. Maybe stop living in the past of old glory days of the big teams, big videos, huge adverts. The Early 2000's were a different animal of skateboarding. It's not the same anymore. And eS seems to have gotten with the times. They have a decent but small team of riders who are passionate about skating. And who they seem to support almost daily with clips and pics on their social media pages. Their shoes are great, I have zero complaints the past couple pairs I've had from them. The company had to evolve and they did. Idk what more you guys want from eS.

[skatefresh]

As much as I'd love to try a pair of accel plus in the new colorways I can't justify dropping $100 dollars for some accels in 2020. DC has been getting my money lately. You can find discounted legacy slims and other modern cupsole models all day for 40 bucks that are arguably higher quality and look good. Those sal 20 remakes were the only shoes i got legit salt stains on after 5 sessions. This is coming from a big es fan in their hey day, but I can't get hyped on es without the old squad.

[pizzafliptofakie]

Maybe it's just me but eS seems to be fine. They have their market and they cater to it. When you lose all your superstars to the big 3 shoe companies it's a wonder they even came back at all. Maybe stop living in the past of old glory days of the big teams, big videos, huge adverts. The Early 2000's were a different animal of skateboarding. It's not the same anymore. And eS seems to have gotten with the times. They have a decent but small team of riders who are passionate about skating. And who they seem to support almost daily with clips and pics on their social media pages. Their shoes are great, I have zero complaints the past couple pairs I've had from them. The company had to evolve and they did. Idk what more you guys want from eS.

That's what's bullshit though. They HAD a really good squad and they dumped them on a dime. There's always people claiming that bigger brands don't care and one day will drop their riders without blinking, but eS literally did that.

[TheLurper]

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A group of old men running the business not realizing what they think is cool doesn't need to be respected by the younger generation.

Just cause you were "cool" in 1995 doesn't mean you are cool decades later. Nor does it mean you can dictate cool to the younger generation.

[close]

yeah i think a lot of brand owners are still mistakenly operating under the assumption that "these kids don't know what cool is, we'll show them what's cool". maybe that worked in the 90s and early 2000s when skate media was just less prevalent. doesn't work like that anymore with every kid having a smartphone and being bombarded with content.

I will say my experience with the executives at a certain "core" skate company was beyond disappointing.

They only partially understood why their market share had collapsed (shitty low quality product) and they refused to do any market research to figure out what the kids were actually interested in.

Not to mention, they were delusional when it came to their reputation outside of the US.

I want the company to do well, but I also just want it to die already.

És biggest problem...

If Sole Tech was going to bring eS back they needed to do it for real.
I wonder what kind of budget and what kind of support Sole Tech gave Don Brown when this started up again.

Are any of Sole Tech brands not sucking right now?

[Billy Bitchcakes]

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Maybe it's just me but eS seems to be fine. They have their market and they cater to it. When you lose all your superstars to the big 3 shoe companies it's a wonder they even came back at all. Maybe stop living in the past of old glory days of the big teams, big videos, huge adverts. The Early 2000's were a different animal of skateboarding. It's not the same anymore. And eS seems to have gotten with the times. They have a decent but small team of riders who are passionate about skating. And who they seem to support almost daily with clips and pics on their social media pages. Their shoes are great, I have zero complaints the past couple pairs I've had from them. The company had to evolve and they did. Idk what more you guys want from eS.

[close]

That's what's bullshit though. They HAD a really good squad and they dumped them on a dime. There's always people claiming that bigger brands don't care and one day will drop their riders without blinking, but eS literally did that.

They didn't drop their riders they closed the whole program. If you can't afford to run any more then so be it, the issue's more with what they're doing since starting up again. Seems they restarted with no direction or support

[somedudefromnj]

Maybe it's just me but eS seems to be fine. They have their market and they cater to it. When you lose all your superstars to the big 3 shoe companies it's a wonder they even came back at all. Maybe stop living in the past of old glory days of the big teams, big videos, huge adverts. The Early 2000's were a different animal of skateboarding. It's not the same anymore. And eS seems to have gotten with the times. They have a decent but small team of riders who are passionate about skating. And who they seem to support almost daily with clips and pics on their social media pages. Their shoes are great, I have zero complaints the past couple pairs I've had from them. The company had to evolve and they did. Idk what more you guys want from eS.

After listening to JRE with Robert Downey Jr and why he wouldnt come back as Iro Man., this is the only thing I can think when eS is brought up in this thread

[pizzafliptofakie]

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Maybe it's just me but eS seems to be fine. They have their market and they cater to it. When you lose all your superstars to the big 3 shoe companies it's a wonder they even came back at all. Maybe stop living in the past of old glory days of the big teams, big videos, huge adverts. The Early 2000's were a different animal of skateboarding. It's not the same anymore. And eS seems to have gotten with the times. They have a decent but small team of riders who are passionate about skating. And who they seem to support almost daily with clips and pics on their social media pages. Their shoes are great, I have zero complaints the past couple pairs I've had from them. The company had to evolve and they did. Idk what more you guys want from eS.

[close]

That's what's bullshit though. They HAD a really good squad and they dumped them on a dime. There's always people claiming that bigger brands don't care and one day will drop their riders without blinking, but eS literally did that.

[close]

They didn't drop their riders they closed the whole program. If you can't afford to run any more then so be it, the issue's more with what they're doing since starting up again. Seems they restarted with no direction or support

They were gone for less than a year. Multiple ex riders have claimed little to no transparency in their decision. You can call it whatever you want, but they literally did to their riders what people have feared big corporate brands would do to theirs, yet I’m supposed to feel obligated to support eS because their owner was a freestyle skater a few decades ago.

[Telly]

I have a friend who was a little hammered and decided to join in with a group of other hammers who were branding themselves.
Fast forward a week and he is in the hospital with a staph infection.  Rewind two days and he was in a hot tub.
At least one mistake in there.

[Mort Garson]

WKND not acting like a real brand and letting Austyn leave. Without him now Johan is the face of the company and I just can't have that.

My understanding was more that Austyn got a little too cool for wknd and maybe thought he had a chance to be on a company whose image he liked better - but obviously that didn't happen cause now he's in fashion guy purgatory.

[411bandit]

The quality of the new DC is insanely good. I've been skating a pair on brand new mob grip for nearly 2 weeks now and barely skuff.

Nike or Emerica would be on their to being in bits at this stage

[Seadramon]

I think footprint really dropped the ball by not changing the name or logo of their footwear venture.

Been said on slap already but to be making shoes that included their already highly regarded insoles as stock is easy and marketable.

And honestly I think a lot of their shoe designs aren't bad aside from the hideous logo and stupid fucking name.

[411bandit]

Footprint's logo is gash

[Surf The Earth]

Letting Bill Strobeck film for you

[rosemaryBB]

Seeing as how someone was talking about Numbers - let's talk about how many board companies come out without an identity. No definable visual art-direction or whatever is there is fucking bland, no cohesion to their team, no "vibe" to their video/ad output.I honestly forget Numbers even exists all the time, and I don't know who rides for them besides Koston.

There's definitely other examples of this but the only other one I can think of is SOVRN. Plan B is almost like that but we all know they only exist to extract capital from the suburban moms of skater kids who shop at Zumiez. Primitive is sort of like that but their team is memorable and their art direction has gotten more memorable (I still don't like it, but I definitely remember it)

[stone cold steve austin]

I remover seeing a few years who’s baker we’re going to do a colab with drake or lil Wayne and it had monsters in the letters or some shit. I don’t think they ever went ahead with it but the mistake was posting a tease of it on their insta.

[Lenny the Fatface]

Seeing as how someone was talking about Numbers - let's talk about how many board companies come out without an identity. No definable visual art-direction or whatever is there is fucking bland, no cohesion to their team, no "vibe" to their video/ad output.I honestly forget Numbers even exists all the time, and I don't know who rides for them besides Koston.

There's definitely other examples of this but the only other one I can think of is SOVRN. Plan B is almost like that but we all know they only exist to extract capital from the suburban moms of skater kids who shop at Zumiez. Primitive is sort of like that but their team is memorable and their art direction has gotten more memorable (I still don't like it, but I definitely remember it)

On one end I agree, on the other end you can sell a shitload of Vegeta decks without having to deal with the mental gymnastics of brand synergy.

[hotstudios_on_youtube]

more brands need to let jenkem influence shit

whoever sponsors Frankie heck needs to send a cheque

how is Frankie spears pro ? not any of the pabich bros