Author Topic: Weckingball of Nike SB  (Read 13085 times)

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Dong Hanglo

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #180 on: September 16, 2020, 06:22:15 PM »
Weck has bad style.

Owen

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #181 on: September 17, 2020, 02:36:26 AM »
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The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?
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Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.
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You make some good points, and let me say this, Nike deserves all the criticism it gets from its insidiously transparent labor practices. I'm not here to defend these monolithic, endless budget big shoe brands. But I am just so sick and tired of seeing core companies being considered more ethical or honorable simply based on the fact that they skater owned and operated. If they have a more vested interest in supporting the overall skate scene, why do they only want to only appeal to a very specific demographic of said skate scene? 

Why did Etnies dump the entire Etnies Girl program in the late 2000s and leave people like Leo Baker, Evelien B., Elissa hanging out to dry? Why did these bigger shoe brands step-up and pick up the pieces left by these core companies that didn't see any value in them?
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Cuz people like to nitpick details to fit their narrative.

Here are a few counterpoints to criticisms of Nike:
1. Nike took the LA courthouse, previously an unskateable spot/bust, and essentially made it a skatepark, which helps keeps kids busy and out of trouble. They also had a perfect opportunity to plaster the nike sb logo everywhere there, but guess what? They didn't
2. Vans threatened to kick Alex Olson off for moving from California to New York.
3. If you're a shoe company that doesn't plan on using cheap labor from overseas, good luck selling a $200 skate shoe, and hope for a goddamn miracle if you want to make a profit.
4. Crailtap threatens to kick people off girl/chocolate if they leave Lakai
5. Emerica heavily underpaid Reynolds until Chad Muska offered him 2-3x pay on Circa.
6. Nike helped out with Malto's ankle injury and stuck by him through his recovery
7. Don't know the details but John Fitzgerald has been hurt for a while now and he's still on the team page so it can be assumed he's still being supported by them
8. They actually followed Stefan Janoski's vision for a shoe

Business is business. It's just "cool" to hate on Nike because they are the most successful at it. Emerica/Lakai/State all want to make a profit too. Some business decisions look scummy, others look virtuous.
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You've highlighted some good things about Nike and some bad things about skate footwear brands however in most cases the penny swings both ways.

Nike dogged Corey Kennedy when things got hot (kind of expected from a corporate perspective but crail has managed to stand by him).

Nike dogged Peter Hewitt when things got shitty.

Nike purchased the Janoski name so they didnt have to pay him royalties.

From my understanding of the story, Emerica weren't necessarily under paying Reynolds, Muska just helped him negotiate a better deal.
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Penny swings both ways? That's not a saying, haha.

Nike didn't dog CK at all. That's all on him.

Haha penny, pendulum you know what I mean
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pizzafliptofakie

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #182 on: September 17, 2020, 05:36:09 AM »
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Podcast appearance by the Weck. Host seems like a piece of work.

https://twitter.com/JoshLekach/status/1305675029711970309?s=20
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spent 2 years being a joke, and is now hating on Man Ramp for doing the same thing and getting paid by thrasher for it.


"wahhhh, but what about MY attention?!"

Deekay

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #183 on: September 17, 2020, 06:05:44 AM »
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This is the most narrow minded line of thought I've read in a long time. Applying moral absolutism - that all actions are either right or wrong - shouldn't be applied to consumerism as a whole, but as isolated events or actions of these companies. No one or nothing is perfect to a full extent, but the goal is to strive towards perfection and take necessary steps towards achieving a state of as close to ethical perfection as possible.
[close]

LOL at "good capitalism" arguments. There is no such thing my dude. Sorry.


Socialism and Left politics are absolutely moral issues at their core. It's a cause rooted in caring for another person which you do not know, which is the highest form of morality. Marx and Engels knew it. Even people like Sartre knew it. Why do you think the Right is so afraid of a leftist world? They'll be forced to incorporate basic morals and values we're taught as children, like empathy.

From what I said did you get "good capitalism arguments"? Are you not understanding what I'm saying?

Basically what you're saying is that we shouldn't try to make a change/difference for good ever as long as everything can't be perfect at the snap of fingers. We both know that isn't going to happen, so why choose to give up instead of making things better little by little?

In case you haven't noticed, the world has changed significantly in the last 50...40..30..20.. even 10-15 years because of this mindset.

iNeverSkated

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #184 on: September 17, 2020, 06:25:08 AM »
I don't know what this thread is anymore, but I listened to a clip from the podcast Weck went on. They only let you have 10 mins for free, and no way I'm paying for it. But it sounded like Weck was saying he was too real for the skateboard industry, and like maybe there was an effort made to keep him from being as successful as he should have been. He sounded pretty bitter and hateful. I'll pray for him.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 08:49:51 AM by iNeverSkated »

georgethecat

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #185 on: September 17, 2020, 06:26:37 AM »
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Podcast appearance by the Weck. Host seems like a piece of work.

https://twitter.com/JoshLekach/status/1305675029711970309?s=20
[close]

spent 2 years being a joke, and is now hating on Man Ramp for doing the same thing and getting paid by thrasher for it.
[close]


"wahhhh, but what about MY attention?!"

He created this persona because no one in skating seemed to care about him, so it's not gonna go well as people also stop caring about the persona.

JANUS

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #186 on: September 17, 2020, 07:29:36 AM »
This fool lost his damn mind after that desperate failed attempt to get in the new THPS.
If you can't handle me at my Marc Johnson, you don't deserve me at my Bobby Puleo.

Mike Oxwelling

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #187 on: September 17, 2020, 08:36:18 AM »
A trumper complaining about labor practices over and iphone in the United States.   DHS is forcing hysterectomies on people in our own country.

Tony Hawk never called...and those SB boxes stopped.  Of course he's having a melt down and found Qanon to make himself feel better

bigdave

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #188 on: September 17, 2020, 11:29:31 AM »
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This is the most narrow minded line of thought I've read in a long time. Applying moral absolutism - that all actions are either right or wrong - shouldn't be applied to consumerism as a whole, but as isolated events or actions of these companies. No one or nothing is perfect to a full extent, but the goal is to strive towards perfection and take necessary steps towards achieving a state of as close to ethical perfection as possible.
[close]

LOL at "good capitalism" arguments. There is no such thing my dude. Sorry.


Socialism and Left politics are absolutely moral issues at their core. It's a cause rooted in caring for another person which you do not know, which is the highest form of morality. Marx and Engels knew it. Even people like Sartre knew it. Why do you think the Right is so afraid of a leftist world? They'll be forced to incorporate basic morals and values we're taught as children, like empathy.
[close]

From what I said did you get "good capitalism arguments"? Are you not understanding what I'm saying?

Basically what you're saying is that we shouldn't try to make a change/difference for good ever as long as everything can't be perfect at the snap of fingers. We both know that isn't going to happen, so why choose to give up instead of making things better little by little?

In case you haven't noticed, the world has changed significantly in the last 50...40..30..20.. even 10-15 years because of this mindset.

You literally talked about removing absolutism.

Boycotts do nothing to improve anything, even "little by little"

The "little by little" you seek is growing discontent by the working class to continue to create capitalism for their bosses.

History has proven, repeatedly, that only direct action ever works, and usually it needs to come in the form of some kind of revolution. Societal changes you're referring to don't change human nature/behavior.

thingsthingsthings

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #189 on: September 17, 2020, 02:47:57 PM »
Weck saying manramp is 'a kook and terrible representation of masculinity in skateboarding' in that podcast snippet is one of the funniest things I've ever heard. Dude should keep his eye on his pot and kettle.

ennui

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #190 on: September 17, 2020, 03:26:47 PM »
A trumper complaining about labor practices over and iphone in the United States.   DHS is forcing hysterectomies on people in our own country.

Tony Hawk never called...and those SB boxes stopped.  Of course he's having a melt down and found Qanon to make himself feel better


diogenesofkokomo

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #191 on: September 17, 2020, 05:33:13 PM »
Weck saying manramp is 'a kook and terrible representation of masculinity in skateboarding' in that podcast snippet is one of the funniest things I've ever heard. Dude should keep his eye on his pot and kettle.

Calling someone "a terrible representation of masculinity in skateboarding" is a really weird way to announce to the world that you're both physically and emotionally incapable of making a woman cum.


scumfuck

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #192 on: September 17, 2020, 07:07:59 PM »
This dude is a racist, supports trump, and is probably going to fall off the face of the earth very soon. He loves the skate troll community and is pretty much cancelled by every single skate company. Sorry weck, your time is done.

cucktard

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #193 on: September 18, 2020, 12:05:27 AM »
The ethical response to Nike here is interesting.

I totally sympathize with both sides,

a) we shouldn’t support companies with terrible labor records, with our money or by repping them.

b) any type of boycotting is ineffective against the system as a whole. It puts the responsibility of ethical behavior on the consumer, not the manufacturer.

It seems that the only ethical answer to satisfy both sides would be to steal Nikes and destroy the logos and read more Bookchin.

That and support a worldwide workers movement to demolish capitalism.

Not only are you not supporting them by stealing, you are actively punishing them and causing loss.

I never understood the justification for stealing until this thread.
'It's pretty hard to make out on a skateboard.' -Steve Shible

Deekay

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #194 on: September 18, 2020, 05:30:53 AM »
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This is the most narrow minded line of thought I've read in a long time. Applying moral absolutism - that all actions are either right or wrong - shouldn't be applied to consumerism as a whole, but as isolated events or actions of these companies. No one or nothing is perfect to a full extent, but the goal is to strive towards perfection and take necessary steps towards achieving a state of as close to ethical perfection as possible.
[close]

LOL at "good capitalism" arguments. There is no such thing my dude. Sorry.


Socialism and Left politics are absolutely moral issues at their core. It's a cause rooted in caring for another person which you do not know, which is the highest form of morality. Marx and Engels knew it. Even people like Sartre knew it. Why do you think the Right is so afraid of a leftist world? They'll be forced to incorporate basic morals and values we're taught as children, like empathy.
[close]

From what I said did you get "good capitalism arguments"? Are you not understanding what I'm saying?

Basically what you're saying is that we shouldn't try to make a change/difference for good ever as long as everything can't be perfect at the snap of fingers. We both know that isn't going to happen, so why choose to give up instead of making things better little by little?

In case you haven't noticed, the world has changed significantly in the last 50...40..30..20.. even 10-15 years because of this mindset.
[close]

You literally talked about removing absolutism.

Boycotts do nothing to improve anything, even "little by little"

The "little by little" you seek is growing discontent by the working class to continue to create capitalism for their bosses.

History has proven, repeatedly, that only direct action ever works, and usually it needs to come in the form of some kind of revolution. Societal changes you're referring to don't change human nature/behavior.

You keep choosing points in arguments without answering what they apply to. I said removing absolutism when discussing a value chain - only because it differs so much within itself. Isolated events and/or decisions must be discussed, you can't just dismiss a whole value chain because of one faulty link. It can be improved or changed.

Boycotts do nothing to improve anything? Tell that to H&M, Sears, Nordstom, J.Crew, Joe Fresh, Matalan, BonMarché, Mango, the Benetton labels, (want me to keep going?) or literally any other brand that has gone down in flames or have been forced to reconstruct as a result of being exposed. What happened to American Apparel again? Another matter, but same principle. 

Now tell me - what history were you talking about?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 05:37:39 AM by Deekay »

bigdave

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #195 on: September 18, 2020, 06:45:20 AM »

Now tell me - what history were you talking about?


You're talking about boycotts of H&M being effective as a means to do....what? Shift capital to another factory? Modify exploitation so white american liberals can make instagram posts in their echo chambers? Is boycotting plastic straws an effective tool against climate change? jesus fucking christ, dude. H&M Boycotts? Seriously?

As for your question above...are you -really- this fucking dense? Do you have zero sense of history except for some angry petition to fucking Sears or some shit?







Want to stop capital's exploitation of the working class? The above images represent the only demonstrably effective way to do it. It isnt to say capitalism doesnt still exist in each of those countries, it most certainly does, but if you are talking incremental progress towards a society that is more just and has a more robust safety net, worker protections, and shared labor beneficiary, these were a hell of a lot more effective than fucking change.org and bullshit rating scales pitting Nike vs Adidas vs New Balance vs Sole Tech vs blah blah blah making you feel better. 





JANUS

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #196 on: September 18, 2020, 07:04:27 AM »
Specifically referring to the picture of Lenin, are you suggesting that Russian society is comparatively more just than societies that did not have a workers’ revolution, or are you comparing Russian society to itself before and after the revolution?
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Lowcalcium

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #197 on: September 18, 2020, 07:31:31 AM »
Can we change this thread to Weckingball of Communism

cold budweisers

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #198 on: September 18, 2020, 08:48:04 AM »
manramp might be the only good or positive representation of masculinity in skateboarding

Deekay

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #199 on: September 18, 2020, 02:56:04 PM »
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Now tell me - what history were you talking about?
[close]


You're talking about boycotts of H&M being effective as a means to do....what? Shift capital to another factory? Modify exploitation so white american liberals can make instagram posts in their echo chambers? Is boycotting plastic straws an effective tool against climate change? jesus fucking christ, dude. H&M Boycotts? Seriously?

As for your question above...are you -really- this fucking dense? Do you have zero sense of history except for some angry petition to fucking Sears or some shit?

Want to stop capital's exploitation of the working class? The above images represent the only demonstrably effective way to do it. It isnt to say capitalism doesnt still exist in each of those countries, it most certainly does, but if you are talking incremental progress towards a society that is more just and has a more robust safety net, worker protections, and shared labor beneficiary, these were a hell of a lot more effective than fucking change.org and bullshit rating scales pitting Nike vs Adidas vs New Balance vs Sole Tech vs blah blah blah making you feel better.

I was refering to this quote:

History has proven, repeatedly, that only direct action ever works, and usually it needs to come in the form of some kind of revolution. Societal changes you're referring to don't change human nature/behavior.

But you only chose to respond to half a part of one point I was making. I was giving examples on changes that have been done as a result of boycotts as you said only direction action ever works.
Of course revolutions have made differences in the past, but one doesn't dismiss the other. What I'm arguing for is that whether you choose to take drastic measures or start a revolution, changes can be done over time and the smaller things do matter.

Have you ever studied company sales or customer surveys and how they changed as a result of company actions? As a consumer, you have more power than you think as these actions reach your customers and you collectively make a change. Please read up on how companies have been forced to change in terms of sustainability and human rights and you will see what has been done solely because the consumer is more informed than ever in the digital era.

Bottom line: support those companies that deserve to be supported and make noise when someone is fucking up and the market will take care of the rest.


nicotinewheel

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #200 on: September 18, 2020, 05:01:54 PM »
Quote from: Deekay
Bottom line: support those companies that deserve to be supported and make noise when someone is fucking up and the market will take care of the rest.
lol

cucktard

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #201 on: September 18, 2020, 11:15:10 PM »
Quote from: Deekay
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Bottom line: support those companies that deserve to be supported and make noise when someone is fucking up and the market will take care of the rest.
[close]
lol
Kooked for that intentionally naive sentence.

The market has done wonders solving climate change, eh?
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ndsr

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #202 on: September 18, 2020, 11:58:06 PM »
The ethical response to Nike here is interesting.

I totally sympathize with both sides,

a) we shouldn’t support companies with terrible labor records, with our money or by repping them.

b) any type of boycotting is ineffective against the system as a whole. It puts the responsibility of ethical behavior on the consumer, not the manufacturer.

It seems that the only ethical answer to satisfy both sides would be to steal Nikes and destroy the logos and read more Bookchin.

That and support a worldwide workers movement to demolish capitalism.

Not only are you not supporting them by stealing, you are actively punishing them and causing loss.

I never understood the justification for stealing until this thread.
To wisely sort of misquote the great Cheech Marin “ that’s heavy you got a real point there, now just let your hair grow out and like nobody will notice”. It’s a pinhead reference, that I believe Refers to having a small brain.  In conclusion fuck Nike

Deekay

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #203 on: September 21, 2020, 06:43:27 AM »
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Quote from: Deekay
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Bottom line: support those companies that deserve to be supported and make noise when someone is fucking up and the market will take care of the rest.
[close]
lol
[close]
Kooked for that intentionally naive sentence.

The market has done wonders solving climate change, eh?

What the fuck is it with this message board and interpreting everything as black or white? Think one step further.

When I say 'the market will take care of the rest', I mean that companies will be forced to recognize consumer behavior and act in line with how the consumer acts. So to answer your question, here are 2 points:

1. Production in terms of sustainability has improved immensely over the past decade. Companies (at least in Europe) are now forced to put out extensive sustainability reports that show their impact on climate over the past year in both production and transport. Sustainability goals are heavily focused on and every improvement is shown in hard numbers every year. Although we have a long way to go, a lot has been done and there is constant improvement in most areas.

More importantly: 2. As companies act in line with the consumer, they're going to put out quality/price and quantities that matches consumption. This is what I meant by my previous statement. Only so much can be done to achieve certain price points.
The average consumer is fine with buying cheap shit with little to no transparency/traceability in companies value chain as long as they get cheaper product. Then they buy 5 more.
Businesses exist to make money - many ethical companies will try as much as possible to be as sustainable and ethical as possible, but it only works to a certain extent if you want to keep making a profit.

This is what I mean when I say the consumer has the power and 'the market will take care of the rest'. Of course you can't single handedly change the whole industry, but if more people change their mindset,  then the industry and market is forced to change.

Read number 2 again and analyze your own consumption behavior. The other option is doing nothing at all and crying about what's wrong on the slap messageboard - what's the better option?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 06:56:22 AM by Deekay »

S.

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #204 on: September 21, 2020, 09:00:43 AM »
Ok. So to summarize: shut up and consume (the right products).

There are other things you can do besides just buying the right stuff: join a union, go demonstrate in solidarity with workers rights, connect with other workers along the supply chain. Vote for a party, who seeks to implement laws making it possible to hold companies accountable for their labor practices. Hell, even Trump has a different solution: A ban on products produced under forced labor conditions in China. Yes he most likely does not give a fuck about labor conditions in China and this is just a tactical measure in his trade war, but still. These things can be done.

I don't want to negate the positive developements you mentioned. You are a bit naive however in arguing that consumption is based (or will finally be based) on rational choice and that companies that can show they are more ethical have an advantage in the market place. In the real work there is advertisement and marketing and as a company having to do whatever you can to win. The economy is not democratic at all. I don't believe a more ethical consumption alone is going to change that.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 09:48:04 AM by S. »

Watitdo

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #205 on: September 21, 2020, 09:16:45 AM »
Kinda hard to say this guy is cancelled when he's got 119k followers. I'm definitely not a fan though.

His account is public...0 posts...no profile pic...

Deekay

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #206 on: September 21, 2020, 09:47:17 AM »
Ok. So to summarize: shut up and consume (the right products).

You are super naive in thinking consumption is based on rational choice and that companies that are more ethical have an advantage in the market place. That is pure fantasy. In the real work there is advertisement and marketing and doing whatever you can to win. Economic life is not democratic at all.

There are other things you can do besides just buying the right stuff: join a union, go demonstrate in solidarity with workers rights, connect with other workers along the supply chain. Vote for a party, who seeks to implement laws making it possible to hold companies accountable for their labor practices. Hell, even Trump has a different solution: A ban on products produced under forced labor conditions in China. Yes he most likely does not give a fuck about labor conditions in China and this is just a tactical measure in his trade war, but still. These things can be done.

Where did I say ethical companies have an advantage in the market? If anything, I stated the opposite and
advocated for how great it would be if they did. Other than that, I absolutely agree with you, but I think the point of the discussion got blurry pretty quickly and my points are being interpreted as if they would solve every issue there is in modern day consumption.

I am only arguing against the point that started this whole thing; the discussion started when certain brands were being criticized for their lack of ethics and some posters stated that it doesn't matter what you do because 'everyone is equally evil'. I am saying that is not the case at all.

The only point I am trying to make is: if you are to buy a product and have 10+ options, it does matter what you choose because different companies' value chains look radically different (even though none is perfect obviously). Buy from a company you want to survive for whatever reason, but it would make a huge difference if people consumed smarter so why not be a part of progress instead of the problem? Just weigh the options and be aware of where you put your money. I buy Adidas all the time and I know what they're about, and sometimes when buying other products I try to do my part - easy as that.

S.

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #207 on: September 21, 2020, 09:49:30 AM »
Yes, I did generalize a bit much. That was kind of an impulsive reply. I have changed my reply a bit.

Deekay

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #208 on: September 21, 2020, 09:55:09 AM »
I feel like we're on the same track but the discussion got a lot broader than what I was originally responding to, so my rants got too open to interpretation, I guess.

bigdave

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #209 on: September 21, 2020, 09:57:57 AM »