Author Topic: Weckingball of Nike SB  (Read 13053 times)

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bigdave

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #120 on: September 15, 2020, 10:14:13 AM »
Wooooof

Y'all better not look up how cobalt is mined for the lithium ion batteries you have in all of your devices...

Exactly. This encapsulates many of my points entirely.

Liberals love to show off their Teslas and tout them as saving the environment. You simply shifted capital from one bad actor to another. Both destroying the world for profit. But hey, at least you feel better right?

Same fuckin argument with Nike's score on some arbitrary "ethical" rating system vs. New Balance (whose principal founder is a massive Trump supporter, btw). Shifting capital around to various companies and ensuring they all employ powerless workers means next to nothing but symbolic gestures. It's as hollow as anything else.

Dwyck

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #121 on: September 15, 2020, 10:27:12 AM »
Like, "carbon footprint" was an op to make people blame themselves for shit oil companies do. You buy a pair of nikes, you get a really good shoe to skate but you 'support' something bad or whatever. or you don't buy nikes, nothing changes, nike continues to exist and exploit labor overseas, you pat yourself on the back, and your dinky emericas made in similar conditions overseas fall apart in two weeks
Regular stance is a mental disorder defined by the DSM-5

Frank

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #122 on: September 15, 2020, 10:38:19 AM »
Like, "carbon footprint" was an op to make people blame themselves for shit oil companies do. You buy a pair of nikes, you get a really good shoe to skate but you 'support' something bad or whatever. or you don't buy nikes, nothing changes, nike continues to exist and exploit labor overseas, you pat yourself on the back, and your dinky emericas made in similar conditions overseas fall apart in two weeks

but they core, bro!

true skaters wouldn't exploit kids for profit.

nike is corpo jocks. sole tech factories are paradise. i heard it's like working for willy wonka, but the factory fumes hit a bit different.

augustmoon

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #123 on: September 15, 2020, 10:57:14 AM »
unpopular opinion:  buying a well made shoe that lasts twice as long as some payless grade "core" brand, whose shoes are most likely made under even worse conditions, is actually less wasteful and the better choice environmentally. 

skateboarding is an industry based on waste and extreme consumption.  if you think you're in any way acting ethically, you're kidding yourself.  maybe if we switched to carbon fiber boards that last a couple years and indestructable shoes, but none of us want to do that (myself included)

El Chupacabra

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #124 on: September 15, 2020, 11:06:30 AM »
Goddamn, watching you guys try to intellectual dick measure is like walking into Philosophy 101 at the local junior college.

bigdave

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #125 on: September 15, 2020, 11:08:05 AM »
Goddamn, watching you guys try to intellectual dick measure is like walking into Philosophy 101 at the local junior college.

Oh, no! I teach at a University. Two of them!

Style Police

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #126 on: September 15, 2020, 11:10:21 AM »
Podcast appearance by the Weck. Host seems like a piece of work.

https://twitter.com/JoshLekach/status/1305675029711970309?s=20


Lowcalcium

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #127 on: September 15, 2020, 11:30:04 AM »
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Goddamn, watching you guys try to intellectual dick measure is like walking into Philosophy 101 at the local junior college.
[close]

Oh, no! I teach at a University. Two of them!

Cool so your just as dumb as the rest of us. Your in the the adjunct professor hell because the idea of tenure has become a pipe dream.

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/confessions-community-college-dean/stuck-adjunct-hell

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/just-visiting/tenure-already-dead


bigdave

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #128 on: September 15, 2020, 11:31:59 AM »
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Goddamn, watching you guys try to intellectual dick measure is like walking into Philosophy 101 at the local junior college.
[close]

Oh, no! I teach at a University. Two of them!
[close]

Cool so your just as dumb as the rest of us. Your in the the adjunct professor hell because the idea of tenure has become a pipe dream.

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/confessions-community-college-dean/stuck-adjunct-hell

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/just-visiting/tenure-already-dead


Nope, try again. I have a day job. the teaching is a side hustle. no PhD and zero interest in ever being a full time prof or achieving tenure.

TwisT

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #129 on: September 15, 2020, 11:32:44 AM »
Podcast appearance by the Weck. Host seems like a piece of work.

https://twitter.com/JoshLekach/status/1305675029711970309?s=20

spent 2 years being a joke, and is now hating on Man Ramp for doing the same thing and getting paid by thrasher for it.

Glurmpz

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #130 on: September 15, 2020, 11:35:10 AM »
Nike hype is just that, hype.

A quick review of two comparable shoes I purchased - Nike Check Solarsoft vs Emerica Reynolds Low Vulc.
The Nikes were too floppy right out of the box, shit flick, tongue kept sliding way off to the side. Hated them. Only skated once because of it.
The Reynolds were great right out of the box, but not floppy. Skated them for a bit over a month and then retired them to keep as shoes for yard work etc because they still have so much life left in them.

So yeah, not buying the Nike hype.

Lowcalcium

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #131 on: September 15, 2020, 11:35:30 AM »
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Goddamn, watching you guys try to intellectual dick measure is like walking into Philosophy 101 at the local junior college.
[close]

Oh, no! I teach at a University. Two of them!
[close]

Cool so your just as dumb as the rest of us. Your in the the adjunct professor hell because the idea of tenure has become a pipe dream.

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/confessions-community-college-dean/stuck-adjunct-hell

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/just-visiting/tenure-already-dead
[close]


Nope, try again. I have a day job. the teaching is a side hustle. no PhD and zero interest in ever being a full time prof or achieving tenure.

I'd love to see you espousing Das Kapital to your students while they stare at their phone. Post a picture of you in your tweed jacket

S.

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #132 on: September 15, 2020, 11:43:26 AM »
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I'm old and smart and have read Kapital a bunch of times and completely believe in the eventuality of fully-automated luxury communism and a lot of you are dipshits. Sorry comrades, it's just funny being a pragmatic Marxist sometimes then come here to read critiques about shoes made in Asian countries.

If you think any shoe made overseas doesnt have labors blood on it youre out of your mind. They are all dirty and will remain dirty. Best solution? Make your own shoes or stop wearing them entirely.

Eventual Labor uprisings are the only thing that will solve these concerns. Boycotts are pointless.

I also just bought a pair of GT's today, happily and without guilt or regret. I guarantee there are 50 things I do on an average day more harmful to humanity than that.
[close]

Hey comrade, are you using our noble cause as a base for your cynicism?

Marx would never buy Nike SB!
[close]

You sound like a tankie rightie saying "if you're a socialist why are you using an iphone???"

-sent from my iPhone

so a rightie would identify as marxist? Please, Don't use that cynic arguement: Everything is fucked so why do anything, unless we can change the whole system... Are you out organizing workers? That is actually kind of an honest question. I am a member of a union and I have even heard your kind of arguement against being a member of a union: Why should I join a union? Within the current system they are only making small changes so in the end unions just work to prevent any meaningful change from happening.

Whatever, I don't disagree with most things you write. Other than: Fuck Nike SB and not just because of labor issues!




os89

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #133 on: September 15, 2020, 11:43:45 AM »
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Goddamn, watching you guys try to intellectual dick measure is like walking into Philosophy 101 at the local junior college.
[close]

Oh, no! I teach at a University. Two of them!
[close]

Cool so your just as dumb as the rest of us. Your in the the adjunct professor hell because the idea of tenure has become a pipe dream.

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/confessions-community-college-dean/stuck-adjunct-hell

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/just-visiting/tenure-already-dead
[close]


Nope, try again. I have a day job. the teaching is a side hustle. no PhD and zero interest in ever being a full time prof or achieving tenure.
[close]

I'd love to see you espousing Das Kapital to your students while they stare at their phone. Post a picture of you in your tweed jacket

Boys, boys. Now settle down y'all, its almost nap time.

Dwyck

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #134 on: September 15, 2020, 11:54:09 AM »
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Goddamn, watching you guys try to intellectual dick measure is like walking into Philosophy 101 at the local junior college.
[close]

Oh, no! I teach at a University. Two of them!
[close]

Cool so your just as dumb as the rest of us. Your in the the adjunct professor hell because the idea of tenure has become a pipe dream.

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/confessions-community-college-dean/stuck-adjunct-hell

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/just-visiting/tenure-already-dead

Bigdave: All labor is exploited by capital
You: Ha! Youre also exploited at your job. I am smart
Regular stance is a mental disorder defined by the DSM-5

bigdave

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #135 on: September 15, 2020, 12:49:41 PM »
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Goddamn, watching you guys try to intellectual dick measure is like walking into Philosophy 101 at the local junior college.
[close]

Oh, no! I teach at a University. Two of them!
[close]

Cool so your just as dumb as the rest of us. Your in the the adjunct professor hell because the idea of tenure has become a pipe dream.

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/confessions-community-college-dean/stuck-adjunct-hell

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/just-visiting/tenure-already-dead
[close]

Bigdave: All labor is exploited by capital
You: Ha! Youre also exploited at your job. I am smart

I mean its literally the truth.

bigdave

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #136 on: September 15, 2020, 12:50:39 PM »
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Goddamn, watching you guys try to intellectual dick measure is like walking into Philosophy 101 at the local junior college.
[close]

Oh, no! I teach at a University. Two of them!
[close]

Cool so your just as dumb as the rest of us. Your in the the adjunct professor hell because the idea of tenure has become a pipe dream.

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/confessions-community-college-dean/stuck-adjunct-hell

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/just-visiting/tenure-already-dead
[close]


Nope, try again. I have a day job. the teaching is a side hustle. no PhD and zero interest in ever being a full time prof or achieving tenure.
[close]

I'd love to see you espousing Das Kapital to your students while they stare at their phone. Post a picture of you in your tweed jacket

Haha I do not teach anything involving econ or Pol Sci. Closest thing would be sociology, which is deeply embedded into both Kapital and CM.

El Chupacabra

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #137 on: September 15, 2020, 01:25:15 PM »
I'm glad you're using your valuable time to let us know how unbelievably qualified you are to tell us whats up.


Sick_McCrank_

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #138 on: September 15, 2020, 01:35:09 PM »
WTF is going on in This thread?!

bigdave

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #139 on: September 15, 2020, 01:43:09 PM »
I'm glad you're using your valuable time to let us know how unbelievably qualified you are to tell us whats up.

Im not even trying to do that. Im not that qualified. I know just enough to know the debate over "which slave labor is less offensive" is a fucking waste of time and the battleground of shitty centrist liberals.

ihatejulio

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #140 on: September 15, 2020, 02:42:09 PM »
The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?

S.

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #141 on: September 15, 2020, 02:55:48 PM »
The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?

Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #142 on: September 15, 2020, 02:57:21 PM »
I just came here to say that only Jordan and sneaker heads should wear Nike. Everyone else is following the herd. Sheeple

Sheep flock

ihatejulio

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #143 on: September 15, 2020, 03:15:55 PM »
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The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?
[close]

Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.

You make some good points, and let me say this, Nike deserves all the criticism it gets from its insidiously transparent labor practices. I'm not here to defend these monolithic, endless budget big shoe brands. But I am just so sick and tired of seeing core companies being considered more ethical or honorable simply based on the fact that they skater owned and operated. If they have a more vested interest in supporting the overall skate scene, why do they only want to only appeal to a very specific demographic of said skate scene? 

Why did Etnies dump the entire Etnies Girl program in the late 2000s and leave people like Leo Baker, Evelien B., Elissa hanging out to dry? Why did these bigger shoe brands step-up and pick up the pieces left by these core companies that didn't see any value in them? To me, if these core companies gave an actual shit in supporting the vastly diverse modern skate scene then it would care more about supporting those within our little world that deserve to be recognized.

S.

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #144 on: September 15, 2020, 03:48:18 PM »
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The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?
[close]

Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.
[close]

You make some good points, and let me say this, Nike deserves all the criticism it gets from its insidiously transparent labor practices. I'm not here to defend these monolithic, endless budget big shoe brands. But I am just so sick and tired of seeing core companies being considered more ethical or honorable simply based on the fact that they skater owned and operated. If they have a more vested interest in supporting the overall skate scene, why do they only want to only appeal to a very specific demographic of said skate scene? 

Why did Etnies dump the entire Etnies Girl program in the late 2000s and leave people like Leo Baker, Evelien B., Elissa hanging out to dry? Why did these bigger shoe brands step-up and pick up the pieces left by these core companies that didn't see any value in them? To me, if these core companies gave an actual shit in supporting the vastly diverse modern skate scene then it would care more about supporting those within our little world that deserve to be recognized.

Like I said core companies are not perfect and they could do more. They have also way less money to spend.

Yes i think it is great that Elissa and Lance get paid still. Does Ellisa actually get paid? I shut hope so.
It is part of Nike’s current overall marketing strategy to get involved in women’s rights and lgbtq+ issues, which is great I guess. It Is still at its core a marketing scheme and they will stop doing These things right away if they see it to be bad or unnecessary for the value of their brand.



roomservice

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #145 on: September 15, 2020, 03:52:41 PM »
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The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?
[close]

Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.
[close]

You make some good points, and let me say this, Nike deserves all the criticism it gets from its insidiously transparent labor practices. I'm not here to defend these monolithic, endless budget big shoe brands. But I am just so sick and tired of seeing core companies being considered more ethical or honorable simply based on the fact that they skater owned and operated. If they have a more vested interest in supporting the overall skate scene, why do they only want to only appeal to a very specific demographic of said skate scene? 

Why did Etnies dump the entire Etnies Girl program in the late 2000s and leave people like Leo Baker, Evelien B., Elissa hanging out to dry? Why did these bigger shoe brands step-up and pick up the pieces left by these core companies that didn't see any value in them?
Cuz people like to nitpick details to fit their narrative.

Here are a few counterpoints to criticisms of Nike:
1. Nike took the LA courthouse, previously an unskateable spot/bust, and essentially made it a skatepark, which helps keeps kids busy and out of trouble. They also had a perfect opportunity to plaster the nike sb logo everywhere there, but guess what? They didn't
2. Vans threatened to kick Alex Olson off for moving from California to New York.
3. If you're a shoe company that doesn't plan on using cheap labor from overseas, good luck selling a $200 skate shoe, and hope for a goddamn miracle if you want to make a profit.
4. Crailtap threatens to kick people off girl/chocolate if they leave Lakai
5. Emerica heavily underpaid Reynolds until Chad Muska offered him 2-3x pay on Circa.
6. Nike helped out with Malto's ankle injury and stuck by him through his recovery
7. Don't know the details but John Fitzgerald has been hurt for a while now and he's still on the team page so it can be assumed he's still being supported by them
8. They actually followed Stefan Janoski's vision for a shoe

Business is business. It's just "cool" to hate on Nike because they are the most successful at it. Emerica/Lakai/State all want to make a profit too. Some business decisions look scummy, others look virtuous.

ihatejulio

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #146 on: September 15, 2020, 04:30:42 PM »
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The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?
[close]

Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.
[close]

You make some good points, and let me say this, Nike deserves all the criticism it gets from its insidiously transparent labor practices. I'm not here to defend these monolithic, endless budget big shoe brands. But I am just so sick and tired of seeing core companies being considered more ethical or honorable simply based on the fact that they skater owned and operated. If they have a more vested interest in supporting the overall skate scene, why do they only want to only appeal to a very specific demographic of said skate scene? 

Why did Etnies dump the entire Etnies Girl program in the late 2000s and leave people like Leo Baker, Evelien B., Elissa hanging out to dry? Why did these bigger shoe brands step-up and pick up the pieces left by these core companies that didn't see any value in them? To me, if these core companies gave an actual shit in supporting the vastly diverse modern skate scene then it would care more about supporting those within our little world that deserve to be recognized.
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Like I said core companies are not perfect and they could do more. They have also way less money to spend.

Yes i think it is great that Elissa and Lance get paid still. Does Ellisa actually get paid? I shut hope so.
It is part of Nike’s current overall marketing strategy to get involved in women’s rights and lgbtq+ issues, which is great I guess. It Is still at its core a marketing scheme and they will stop doing These things right away if they see it to be bad or unnecessary for the value of their brand.

You literally just described what actually happened to Etnies women's program with that sentence. Also, there isn't a chance in hell Nike will step back on supporting women's and LGBTQ+ skaters in the future. Absolutely none. If core companies gave a damn about supporting women or LGBTQ+ skaters then maybe they should, oh I don't know, actually fucking support them. Like, how weird and incompetent is it that every last small shoe brand doesn't currently have a single woman on any of their team pages? But hey, let's just sponsor 12 cookie cutter bros from Long Beach wearing condom beanies and cuffed dickies. Give me a fucking break.

If it's part of Nike's marketing scheme to sponsor women and LGBTQ+ skaters to appear virtuous then so be it. What actual real-world consequences arise from that? More women and LGBTQ+ skaters being supported and newcomers seeing themselves represented within the overall skate world? Oh, the humanity!

Glurmpz

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #147 on: September 15, 2020, 06:19:07 PM »
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The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?
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Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.
[close]

You make some good points, and let me say this, Nike deserves all the criticism it gets from its insidiously transparent labor practices. I'm not here to defend these monolithic, endless budget big shoe brands. But I am just so sick and tired of seeing core companies being considered more ethical or honorable simply based on the fact that they skater owned and operated. If they have a more vested interest in supporting the overall skate scene, why do they only want to only appeal to a very specific demographic of said skate scene? 

Why did Etnies dump the entire Etnies Girl program in the late 2000s and leave people like Leo Baker, Evelien B., Elissa hanging out to dry? Why did these bigger shoe brands step-up and pick up the pieces left by these core companies that didn't see any value in them?
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Cuz people like to nitpick details to fit their narrative.

Here are a few counterpoints to criticisms of Nike:
1. Nike took the LA courthouse, previously an unskateable spot/bust, and essentially made it a skatepark, which helps keeps kids busy and out of trouble. They also had a perfect opportunity to plaster the nike sb logo everywhere there, but guess what? They didn't


^That's not actually the case. There were skaters actively working towards that for a long time and Nike helped out by doing an event and donating some cash, from what I remember. Sadly people seem to give Nike all the credit as if they just came in throwing money around and the city gave them the spot.

Owen

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #148 on: September 15, 2020, 06:26:23 PM »
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The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?
[close]

Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.
[close]

You make some good points, and let me say this, Nike deserves all the criticism it gets from its insidiously transparent labor practices. I'm not here to defend these monolithic, endless budget big shoe brands. But I am just so sick and tired of seeing core companies being considered more ethical or honorable simply based on the fact that they skater owned and operated. If they have a more vested interest in supporting the overall skate scene, why do they only want to only appeal to a very specific demographic of said skate scene? 

Why did Etnies dump the entire Etnies Girl program in the late 2000s and leave people like Leo Baker, Evelien B., Elissa hanging out to dry? Why did these bigger shoe brands step-up and pick up the pieces left by these core companies that didn't see any value in them?
[close]
Cuz people like to nitpick details to fit their narrative.

Here are a few counterpoints to criticisms of Nike:
1. Nike took the LA courthouse, previously an unskateable spot/bust, and essentially made it a skatepark, which helps keeps kids busy and out of trouble. They also had a perfect opportunity to plaster the nike sb logo everywhere there, but guess what? They didn't
2. Vans threatened to kick Alex Olson off for moving from California to New York.
3. If you're a shoe company that doesn't plan on using cheap labor from overseas, good luck selling a $200 skate shoe, and hope for a goddamn miracle if you want to make a profit.
4. Crailtap threatens to kick people off girl/chocolate if they leave Lakai
5. Emerica heavily underpaid Reynolds until Chad Muska offered him 2-3x pay on Circa.
6. Nike helped out with Malto's ankle injury and stuck by him through his recovery
7. Don't know the details but John Fitzgerald has been hurt for a while now and he's still on the team page so it can be assumed he's still being supported by them
8. They actually followed Stefan Janoski's vision for a shoe

Business is business. It's just "cool" to hate on Nike because they are the most successful at it. Emerica/Lakai/State all want to make a profit too. Some business decisions look scummy, others look virtuous.

You've highlighted some good things about Nike and some bad things about skate footwear brands however in most cases the penny swings both ways.

Nike dogged Corey Kennedy when things got hot (kind of expected from a corporate perspective but crail has managed to stand by him).

Nike dogged Peter Hewitt when things got shitty.

Nike purchased the Janoski name so they didnt have to pay him royalties.

From my understanding of the story, Emerica weren't necessarily under paying Reynolds, Muska just helped him negotiate a better deal.
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lilboosie

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #149 on: September 15, 2020, 06:52:07 PM »
so what you’re saying is muska was the “ “ negotiating his deals ?