Author Topic: Weckingball of Nike SB  (Read 13052 times)

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Glurmpz

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #150 on: September 15, 2020, 06:53:16 PM »
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The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?
[close]

Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.
[close]

You make some good points, and let me say this, Nike deserves all the criticism it gets from its insidiously transparent labor practices. I'm not here to defend these monolithic, endless budget big shoe brands. But I am just so sick and tired of seeing core companies being considered more ethical or honorable simply based on the fact that they skater owned and operated. If they have a more vested interest in supporting the overall skate scene, why do they only want to only appeal to a very specific demographic of said skate scene? 

Why did Etnies dump the entire Etnies Girl program in the late 2000s and leave people like Leo Baker, Evelien B., Elissa hanging out to dry? Why did these bigger shoe brands step-up and pick up the pieces left by these core companies that didn't see any value in them?
[close]
Cuz people like to nitpick details to fit their narrative.

Here are a few counterpoints to criticisms of Nike:
1. Nike took the LA courthouse, previously an unskateable spot/bust, and essentially made it a skatepark, which helps keeps kids busy and out of trouble. They also had a perfect opportunity to plaster the nike sb logo everywhere there, but guess what? They didn't
2. Vans threatened to kick Alex Olson off for moving from California to New York.
3. If you're a shoe company that doesn't plan on using cheap labor from overseas, good luck selling a $200 skate shoe, and hope for a goddamn miracle if you want to make a profit.
4. Crailtap threatens to kick people off girl/chocolate if they leave Lakai
5. Emerica heavily underpaid Reynolds until Chad Muska offered him 2-3x pay on Circa.
6. Nike helped out with Malto's ankle injury and stuck by him through his recovery
7. Don't know the details but John Fitzgerald has been hurt for a while now and he's still on the team page so it can be assumed he's still being supported by them
8. They actually followed Stefan Janoski's vision for a shoe

Business is business. It's just "cool" to hate on Nike because they are the most successful at it. Emerica/Lakai/State all want to make a profit too. Some business decisions look scummy, others look virtuous.
[close]




Nike purchased the Janoski name so they didnt have to pay him royalties.



^Didn't stefan directly refute this rumor in a video interview years ago?

JANUS

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #151 on: September 15, 2020, 07:22:53 PM »
If you can't handle me at my Marc Johnson, you don't deserve me at my Bobby Puleo.

ihatejulio

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #152 on: September 15, 2020, 08:38:15 PM »
About tree fiddy
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Hc0xK8ceE

An internet rumor started by a defamatory "all core lives matters" simpleton? You don't say!

Hey, here is a real criticism of Nike. They force skate shops to carry their product under overly obtrusive and intensive requirements that undercut every other shoe brand that is allowed to be carried in said skate shop. That's something that Nike deserves 100% to be called out for.

Yet as annoying as I find the "ride the best, fuck the rest" Indy fanboys, you gullible aficionados for the "skater-owned" marketing tagline are just as susceptible to these brands appealing to your insecure sensibilities in being viewed by others as a true and pure skateboarder. Rad! Let's skate one pair of shoes made in a sweatshop overseas over another pair of shoes made in a sweatshop overseas because the guy who "runs" the core company did a backside big spin down an 8 stair in 1998. Cool!

And behind the scenes, some of these "core" companies aren't actually owned and operated by skaters. It's just another core marketing ploy.

Apparently though, if Nike or other big-name shoe brands gives shine to women and lgbtq+ skaters its seen as a fake woke marketing scheme (this notion is borderline demeaning and prejudiced to women/lgbtq+ people mind you). Representation matters, and it seems like the only ones that care are these big name brands which is honestly kinda disheartening since, at the end of the day, I do want these small brands to succeed. The old boys club of the skate industry refusing to adapt and accommodate the now rapidly diverse skate scene speaks volumes. Vans branched out and adapted and now look at the behemoth they are.

edit: I'm well aware I'm being an extra spicy sas magnet tonight lol. You already know how much I enjoy and respect you gorgeous sons a bitches in this thread. I think I need to photoshop 1010's mugshot on a flaccid dick and cool off.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 01:11:15 AM by ihatejulio »

Lowcalcium

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #153 on: September 16, 2020, 01:08:17 AM »
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I just came here to say that only Jordan and sneaker heads should wear Nike. Everyone else is following the herd. Sheeple
[close]

Sheep flock

The herd loves to defend the almighty swoosh. Ever wonder why Applewhite went out wearing Nikeís.


ďApplewhite was involved in the decision Ė he liked the look of them and, because they were a very basic sneaker with no fancy new technology, they were the most budget-friendly option.ď

Keep loving your swoosh cult sheeple.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/heavens-gate-cult-nike-decades-reddit-story


S.

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #154 on: September 16, 2020, 02:23:50 AM »
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The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?
[close]

Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.
[close]

You make some good points, and let me say this, Nike deserves all the criticism it gets from its insidiously transparent labor practices. I'm not here to defend these monolithic, endless budget big shoe brands. But I am just so sick and tired of seeing core companies being considered more ethical or honorable simply based on the fact that they skater owned and operated. If they have a more vested interest in supporting the overall skate scene, why do they only want to only appeal to a very specific demographic of said skate scene? 

Why did Etnies dump the entire Etnies Girl program in the late 2000s and leave people like Leo Baker, Evelien B., Elissa hanging out to dry? Why did these bigger shoe brands step-up and pick up the pieces left by these core companies that didn't see any value in them? To me, if these core companies gave an actual shit in supporting the vastly diverse modern skate scene then it would care more about supporting those within our little world that deserve to be recognized.
[close]

Like I said core companies are not perfect and they could do more. They have also way less money to spend.

Yes i think it is great that Elissa and Lance get paid still. Does Ellisa actually get paid? I shut hope so.
It is part of Nikeís current overall marketing strategy to get involved in womenís rights and lgbtq+ issues, which is great I guess. It Is still at its core a marketing scheme and they will stop doing These things right away if they see it to be bad or unnecessary for the value of their brand.
[close]

You literally just described what actually happened to Etnies women's program with that sentence. Also, there isn't a chance in hell Nike will step back on supporting women's and LGBTQ+ skaters in the future. Absolutely none. If core companies gave a damn about supporting women or LGBTQ+ skaters then maybe they should, oh I don't know, actually fucking support them. Like, how weird and incompetent is it that every last small shoe brand doesn't currently have a single woman on any of their team pages? But hey, let's just sponsor 12 cookie cutter bros from Long Beach wearing condom beanies and cuffed dickies. Give me a fucking break.

If it's part of Nike's marketing scheme to sponsor women and LGBTQ+ skaters to appear virtuous then so be it. What actual real-world consequences arise from that? More women and LGBTQ+ skaters being supported and newcomers seeing themselves represented within the overall skate world? Oh, the humanity!

Hey, I think it is great Nike and Vans have adopted diversity as a marketing strategy and that in some ways has helped quite a few causes. I think it is great more girls skate now and homophobia and racism is being questioned. And yes I think it would be cool if other shoe brands supported more girls.

I feel it is pretty weird that this has muddled social activism and commercial interests in a way that is pretty perverse. It is also the truth that Nike is using anti racist and pro-diversity marketing to sell a product made in global sweatshops by racialized and marginalized workers. A cynical arguement would be that corporations like Nike are using the energy generated by social movements to move their products. They also have fundamentally different interests from some of these movements, though. The NBA for example has been first forced to and has finally embraced the black lives matter movement. It seems they did it because they had to, because they benifit from the movement in their marketing and by embracing it they are trying to control the movement. They have for example made pretty clear rules, about the kind of protest that is allowed on jerseys. The problem I see for black lives matter and its embrace by large corporations is that only some of their demands are in the interest of these companies. Some of the very real structural changes necessary to further the cause of marginalized african american groups can only be solved by structural changes such as better social programmes, health services and more chances of making a living wage. These changes would be very much against the interests of large corporation like Nike and the NBA and the capital interests they are behind them.


S.

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #155 on: September 16, 2020, 02:30:29 AM »
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The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?
[close]

Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.
[close]

You make some good points, and let me say this, Nike deserves all the criticism it gets from its insidiously transparent labor practices. I'm not here to defend these monolithic, endless budget big shoe brands. But I am just so sick and tired of seeing core companies being considered more ethical or honorable simply based on the fact that they skater owned and operated. If they have a more vested interest in supporting the overall skate scene, why do they only want to only appeal to a very specific demographic of said skate scene? 

Why did Etnies dump the entire Etnies Girl program in the late 2000s and leave people like Leo Baker, Evelien B., Elissa hanging out to dry? Why did these bigger shoe brands step-up and pick up the pieces left by these core companies that didn't see any value in them? To me, if these core companies gave an actual shit in supporting the vastly diverse modern skate scene then it would care more about supporting those within our little world that deserve to be recognized.
[close]

Like I said core companies are not perfect and they could do more. They have also way less money to spend.

Yes i think it is great that Elissa and Lance get paid still. Does Ellisa actually get paid? I shut hope so.
It is part of Nikeís current overall marketing strategy to get involved in womenís rights and lgbtq+ issues, which is great I guess. It Is still at its core a marketing scheme and they will stop doing These things right away if they see it to be bad or unnecessary for the value of their brand.
[close]

You literally just described what actually happened to Etnies women's program with that sentence. Also, there isn't a chance in hell Nike will step back on supporting women's and LGBTQ+ skaters in the future. Absolutely none. If core companies gave a damn about supporting women or LGBTQ+ skaters then maybe they should, oh I don't know, actually fucking support them. Like, how weird and incompetent is it that every last small shoe brand doesn't currently have a single woman on any of their team pages? But hey, let's just sponsor 12 cookie cutter bros from Long Beach wearing condom beanies and cuffed dickies. Give me a fucking break.

If it's part of Nike's marketing scheme to sponsor women and LGBTQ+ skaters to appear virtuous then so be it. What actual real-world consequences arise from that? More women and LGBTQ+ skaters being supported and newcomers seeing themselves represented within the overall skate world? Oh, the humanity!
[close]

Hey, I think it is great Nike and Vans have adopted diversity as a marketing strategy and that in some ways has helped quite a few causes. I think it is great more girls skate now and homophobia and racism is being questioned. And yes I think it would be cool if other shoe brands supported more girls.

I feel it is pretty weird that this has muddled social activism and commercial interests in a way that is pretty perverse. It is also the truth that Nike is using anti racist and pro-diversity marketing to sell a product made in global sweatshops by racialized and marginalized workers. A cynical arguement would be that corporations like Nike are using the energy generated by social movements to move their products. They also have fundamentally different interests from some of these movements, though. The NBA for example has been first forced to and has finally embraced the black lives matter movement. It seems they did it because they had to, because they benifit from the movement in their marketing and by embracing it they are trying to control the movement. They have for example made pretty clear rules, about the kind of protest that is allowed on jerseys. The problem I see for black lives matter and its embrace by large corporations is that only some of their demands are in the interest of these companies. Some of the very real structural changes necessary to further the cause of marginalized african american groups can only be solved by structural changes such as better social programmes, health services and more chances of making a living wage. These changes would be very much against the interests of large corporation like Nike and the NBA and the capital interests they are behind them.

For me this bit by Bill Hicks illustrates pretty well how marketing thinks about political emotions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHEOGrkhDp0

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #156 on: September 16, 2020, 04:57:53 AM »
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I just came here to say that only Jordan and sneaker heads should wear Nike. Everyone else is following the herd. Sheeple
[close]

Sheep flock
[close]

The herd loves to defend the almighty swoosh. Ever wonder why Applewhite went out wearing Nikeís.


ďApplewhite was involved in the decision Ė he liked the look of them and, because they were a very basic sneaker with no fancy new technology, they were the most budget-friendly option.ď

Keep loving your swoosh cult sheeple.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/heavens-gate-cult-nike-decades-reddit-story

I donít know what a refinery 29 article citing a Reddit post (almost too much legitimacy there) about Heavens Gate has to do with the fact that sheep congregate in a flock not a herd. 

But hey guys, thereís a brand new book out called No Logo by Naomi Klein you should check out.  Then we can meet in Seattle and protest the WTO.  Iím sure everyone there will be fascinated by your 20-30 year old stances.   I donít need to be told thereís no ethical consumption under capitalism.   

This thread reminds me of my mom.  In the 60s she was a Goldwater republican/colonelís daughter in Oklahoma.  She didnít question the government until decades later and Trumpís candidacy/election and the Ken Burnís Vietnam documentary.  Now she wonít shut up about the government lying to its citizens, keeping things from us, and perhaps not always working to benefit their constituents.  Itís lovely she gets it, but itís annoying to hear it so so long after everyone else has accepted it.  Problem is, it doesnít lead to much personal change, it just festers as internalized cynicism and negativity

Highonangeldust

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #157 on: September 16, 2020, 05:09:52 AM »

JANUS

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #158 on: September 16, 2020, 05:17:37 AM »
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An internet rumor started by a defamatory "all core lives matters" simpleton? You don't say!

Hey, here is a real criticism of Nike. They force skate shops to carry their product under overly obtrusive and intensive requirements that undercut every other shoe brand that is allowed to be carried in said skate shop. That's something that Nike deserves 100% to be called out for.

Yet as annoying as I find the "ride the best, fuck the rest" Indy fanboys, you gullible aficionados for the "skater-owned" marketing tagline are just as susceptible to these brands appealing to your insecure sensibilities in being viewed by others as a true and pure skateboarder. Rad! Let's skate one pair of shoes made in a sweatshop overseas over another pair of shoes made in a sweatshop overseas because the guy who "runs" the core company did a backside big spin down an 8 stair in 1998. Cool!

And behind the scenes, some of these "core" companies aren't actually owned and operated by skaters. It's just another core marketing ploy.

Apparently though, if Nike or other big-name shoe brands gives shine to women and lgbtq+ skaters its seen as a fake woke marketing scheme (this notion is borderline demeaning and prejudiced to women/lgbtq+ people mind you). Representation matters, and it seems like the only ones that care are these big name brands which is honestly kinda disheartening since, at the end of the day, I do want these small brands to succeed. The old boys club of the skate industry refusing to adapt and accommodate the now rapidly diverse skate scene speaks volumes. Vans branched out and adapted and now look at the behemoth they are.

edit: I'm well aware I'm being an extra spicy sas magnet tonight lol. You already know how much I enjoy and respect you gorgeous sons a bitches in this thread. I think I need to photoshop 1010's mugshot on a flaccid dick and cool off.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n-Mz_rDeP04
If you can't handle me at my Marc Johnson, you don't deserve me at my Bobby Puleo.

nicotinewheel

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #159 on: September 16, 2020, 05:25:41 AM »
Quote from: Atiba Applebum
But hey guys, there’s a brand new book out called No Logo by Naomi Klein you should check out.  Then we can meet in Seattle and protest the WTO.  I’m sure everyone there will be fascinated by your 20-30 year old stances.   I don’t need to be told there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism.   

This thread reminds me of my mom.  In the 60s she was a Goldwater republican/colonel’s daughter in Oklahoma.  She didn’t question the government until decades later and Trump’s candidacy/election and the Ken Burn’s Vietnam documentary.  Now she won’t shut up about the government lying to its citizens, keeping things from us, and perhaps not always working to benefit their constituents.  It’s lovely she gets it, but it’s annoying to hear it so so long after everyone else has accepted it.  Problem is, it doesn’t lead to much personal change, it just festers as internalized cynicism and negativity

When you turned 30 what did realize that allowed you to move beyond “these stances”? I’m 40 maybe I’m just immature?

A way to avoid internalizing cynicism is to become materially involved. The terminal cynics are mostly terminally online. Seek out face to face organizing opportunities: join/start a union in your workplace, run for local office, start a relief organization, get involved in mutual aid, form a neighborhood organization that benefits your community, etc.


Pete

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #160 on: September 16, 2020, 05:30:26 AM »
you guys can really turn any thread into a weird uninformed political shitshow. take that qanon shit back to reddit, shit was made by a crew of 4chan hooligans anyway its crazy so many people dont know that.



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Highonangeldust

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #161 on: September 16, 2020, 06:23:54 AM »
you guys can really turn any thread into a weird uninformed political shitshow. take that qanon shit back to reddit, shit was made by a crew of 4chan hooligans anyway its crazy so many people dont know that.


Nora doesnít get down with Egg salad sandwiches

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Lowcalcium

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #162 on: September 16, 2020, 06:55:01 AM »
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I just came here to say that only Jordan and sneaker heads should wear Nike. Everyone else is following the herd. Sheeple
[close]

Sheep flock
[close]

The herd loves to defend the almighty swoosh. Ever wonder why Applewhite went out wearing Nikeís.


ďApplewhite was involved in the decision Ė he liked the look of them and, because they were a very basic sneaker with no fancy new technology, they were the most budget-friendly option.ď

Keep loving your swoosh cult sheeple.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/heavens-gate-cult-nike-decades-reddit-story
[close]

I donít know what a refinery 29 article citing a Reddit post (almost too much legitimacy there) about Heavens Gate has to do with the fact that sheep congregate in a flock not a herd. 

But hey guys, thereís a brand new book out called No Logo by Naomi Klein you should check out.  Then we can meet in Seattle and protest the WTO.  Iím sure everyone there will be fascinated by your 20-30 year old stances.   I donít need to be told thereís no ethical consumption under capitalism.   

This thread reminds me of my mom.  In the 60s she was a Goldwater republican/colonelís daughter in Oklahoma.  She didnít question the government until decades later and Trumpís candidacy/election and the Ken Burnís Vietnam documentary.  Now she wonít shut up about the government lying to its citizens, keeping things from us, and perhaps not always working to benefit their constituents.  Itís lovely she gets it, but itís annoying to hear it so so long after everyone else has accepted it.  Problem is, it doesnít lead to much personal change, it just festers as internalized cynicism and negativity

Dang it is a flock isn't it. Wacka flocka

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #163 on: September 16, 2020, 07:00:44 AM »
Quote from: Atiba Applebum
Expand Quote
But hey guys, thereís a brand new book out called No Logo by Naomi Klein you should check out.  Then we can meet in Seattle and protest the WTO.  Iím sure everyone there will be fascinated by your 20-30 year old stances.   I donít need to be told thereís no ethical consumption under capitalism.   

This thread reminds me of my mom.  In the 60s she was a Goldwater republican/colonelís daughter in Oklahoma.  She didnít question the government until decades later and Trumpís candidacy/election and the Ken Burnís Vietnam documentary.  Now she wonít shut up about the government lying to its citizens, keeping things from us, and perhaps not always working to benefit their constituents.  Itís lovely she gets it, but itís annoying to hear it so so long after everyone else has accepted it.  Problem is, it doesnít lead to much personal change, it just festers as internalized cynicism and negativity
[close]

When you turned 30 what did realize that allowed you to move beyond ďthese stancesĒ? Iím 40 maybe Iím just immature?

A way to avoid internalizing cynicism is to become materially involved. The terminal cynics are mostly terminally online. Seek out face to face organizing opportunities: join/start a union in your workplace, run for local office, start a relief organization, get involved in mutual aid, form a neighborhood organization that benefits your community, etc.

Those are questions to ask lowcalcium not me

S.

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #164 on: September 16, 2020, 07:07:31 AM »
you guys can really turn any thread into a weird uninformed political shitshow. take that qanon shit back to reddit, shit was made by a crew of 4chan hooligans anyway its crazy so many people dont know that.



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Hey Pete, I think youíre the First one in this threat to mention Qanon.

Lowcalcium

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #165 on: September 16, 2020, 07:09:19 AM »
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Quote from: Atiba Applebum
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But hey guys, there’s a brand new book out called No Logo by Naomi Klein you should check out.  Then we can meet in Seattle and protest the WTO.  I’m sure everyone there will be fascinated by your 20-30 year old stances.   I don’t need to be told there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism.   

This thread reminds me of my mom.  In the 60s she was a Goldwater republican/colonel’s daughter in Oklahoma.  She didn’t question the government until decades later and Trump’s candidacy/election and the Ken Burn’s Vietnam documentary.  Now she won’t shut up about the government lying to its citizens, keeping things from us, and perhaps not always working to benefit their constituents.  It’s lovely she gets it, but it’s annoying to hear it so so long after everyone else has accepted it.  Problem is, it doesn’t lead to much personal change, it just festers as internalized cynicism and negativity
[close]

When you turned 30 what did realize that allowed you to move beyond “these stances”? I’m 40 maybe I’m just immature?

A way to avoid internalizing cynicism is to become materially involved. The terminal cynics are mostly terminally online. Seek out face to face organizing opportunities: join/start a union in your workplace, run for local office, start a relief organization, get involved in mutual aid, form a neighborhood organization that benefits your community, etc.
[close]

Those are questions to ask lowcalcium not me

Haha I only hate Nike because I'm a old curmudgeon who grew up hating big Corps in the skate industry. Not for some political or labor theory

Just because I was raised with the ethos that Nike was the devil. Screw the suits

HORSES

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #166 on: September 16, 2020, 07:27:10 AM »
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The whole insinuation that skater owned and operated shoe companies are virtuous by association is beyond one of the most tired ass topics in all of skateboarding. Please, enlighten me, just how many Sole Tech brands (Etnies, Emerica, ES) currently have a single woman on any of their skate programs?

How about Lakai? What about the now-defunct Huf shoe program? Supra? Fallen? Hmm, none of them? That's so weird, I thought skater owned and operated companies took care of their own - especially the ones that were most often overlooked, underappreciated, and undervalued within our scene. It's almost as if these companies are run exclusively by inexorable old men who refuse to adapt to anything beyond their myopic, senile idea of how skateboarding and the skate industry should be run.

And before anyone throws a shit fit, I do skate in a lot of smaller brand shoes. But guess what, I don't think that skating in these smaller brands shoes makes me any more virtuous or a "core" skateboarder than someone skating in a pair of Nike Blazers. Wild huh?
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Of course core brands are not perfect. But: I would argue they have more of a long term interest in skating since their business is way more tangled up in the scene and Skating is not just a small fraction of their business.

To me Nike is just wack and unappealing. Also I am old and I feel nostalgic for a time where companies from the outside of skating were not accepted. It took forever for Nike to lure themselves into the scene. For almost ten years they were actively kept out even though they kept trying to throw a lot of money at people.
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You make some good points, and let me say this, Nike deserves all the criticism it gets from its insidiously transparent labor practices. I'm not here to defend these monolithic, endless budget big shoe brands. But I am just so sick and tired of seeing core companies being considered more ethical or honorable simply based on the fact that they skater owned and operated. If they have a more vested interest in supporting the overall skate scene, why do they only want to only appeal to a very specific demographic of said skate scene? 

Why did Etnies dump the entire Etnies Girl program in the late 2000s and leave people like Leo Baker, Evelien B., Elissa hanging out to dry? Why did these bigger shoe brands step-up and pick up the pieces left by these core companies that didn't see any value in them?
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Cuz people like to nitpick details to fit their narrative.

Here are a few counterpoints to criticisms of Nike:
1. Nike took the LA courthouse, previously an unskateable spot/bust, and essentially made it a skatepark, which helps keeps kids busy and out of trouble. They also had a perfect opportunity to plaster the nike sb logo everywhere there, but guess what? They didn't
2. Vans threatened to kick Alex Olson off for moving from California to New York.
3. If you're a shoe company that doesn't plan on using cheap labor from overseas, good luck selling a $200 skate shoe, and hope for a goddamn miracle if you want to make a profit.
4. Crailtap threatens to kick people off girl/chocolate if they leave Lakai
5. Emerica heavily underpaid Reynolds until Chad Muska offered him 2-3x pay on Circa.
6. Nike helped out with Malto's ankle injury and stuck by him through his recovery
7. Don't know the details but John Fitzgerald has been hurt for a while now and he's still on the team page so it can be assumed he's still being supported by them
8. They actually followed Stefan Janoski's vision for a shoe

Business is business. It's just "cool" to hate on Nike because they are the most successful at it. Emerica/Lakai/State all want to make a profit too. Some business decisions look scummy, others look virtuous.
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You've highlighted some good things about Nike and some bad things about skate footwear brands however in most cases the penny swings both ways.

Nike dogged Corey Kennedy when things got hot (kind of expected from a corporate perspective but crail has managed to stand by him).

Nike dogged Peter Hewitt when things got shitty.

Nike purchased the Janoski name so they didnt have to pay him royalties.

From my understanding of the story, Emerica weren't necessarily under paying Reynolds, Muska just helped him negotiate a better deal.

Penny swings both ways? That's not a saying, haha.

Nike didn't dog CK at all. That's all on him.

El Chupacabra

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #167 on: September 16, 2020, 08:54:43 AM »
Nike more or less has singlehandedly made being a professional skateboarder a viable career option for the first time ever.
They bought their way in for sure, but skateboarders were happy to let them.

The "support core" argument feels like another example of coolguy gatekeeping that the skate industry really suffers from in general. Its being pushed in an attempt to guilt the consumer into sustaining businesses that just flat out don't want to evolve.

Popular opinion here seems to be that Nike buying Janoskis naming rights was a bad thing. Nobody put a gun to his head and made him sign the papers (well, it is Nike, so maybe they did) but he got more money than he could ever spend in one lifetime. I've seen the dudes house, he'll get by somehow.

Don't like them, don't buy them. Whatever lets you sleep at night.

Oh yeah, Weck is a clown for sure, but clowns can be entertaining.

I HATE WHERE I LIVE

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #168 on: September 16, 2020, 08:54:57 AM »
pete is the only good poster left
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 09:02:01 AM by I HATE WHERE I LIVE »

Lowcalcium

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #169 on: September 16, 2020, 09:28:32 AM »
Nike more or less has singlehandedly made being a professional skateboarder a viable career option for the first time ever.
They bought their way in for sure, but skateboarders were happy to let them.

The "support core" argument feels like another example of coolguy gatekeeping that the skate industry really suffers from in general. Its being pushed in an attempt to guilt the consumer into sustaining businesses that just flat out don't want to evolve.

Popular opinion here seems to be that Nike buying Janoskis naming rights was a bad thing. Nobody put a gun to his head and made him sign the papers (well, it is Nike, so maybe they did) but he got more money than he could ever spend in one lifetime. I've seen the dudes house, he'll get by somehow.

Don't like them, don't buy them. Whatever lets you sleep at night.

Oh yeah, Weck is a clown for sure, but clowns can be entertaining.

While I totally agree with everything you just said, I'm just going to pretend I'm Phelps for a second and say "skateboarding doesn't owe you anything."

Sure you should cash those checks while you can because a skateboarding career lasts only 5 to 7 years if your lucky. The same career a RB in the NFL gets due to injuries.  But the NFL is not skateboarding... just because you feel you deserve that money doesn't mean you should always take it.

But there's always valid excuses for taking it: Lisa needs braces, my knee is blown out, man I'd love to try and buy a house. But again, "skateboarding doesn't owe you anything."

So I guess my point is: it's cool sometimes to see people go against the grain in skateboarding and not do it for the cash; or not even the cash...but the livelihood of the money . Jon Rowe is seriously one of my favorite skateboarders and he does it for the sheer stoke. He doesn't care to be pro or to be on a big Corp shoe sponsor (though you can see him wearing Nikes). I don't know I guess I'm a old curmudgeon but I like to see skaters go for the smaller brands (whether they are core or not).

El Chupacabra

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #170 on: September 16, 2020, 10:03:00 AM »
I mean really, none of this is particularly important at the end of the day. No leisure activity is. Its cool that people can make a living off of it (and sometimes fortunes) and its cool that we can have fun with it, but man, its just not that serious a thing.

People that skate for passion and not for a check will always exist. They're the smart ones.
Any niche professional athlete will have a short career and wind up broke both physically and financially unless they take steps early on to prevent that from happening.
Skateboarding encourages a reckless lifestyle too. I came up in LA in the 90s as a skate rat. I know a lot of dudes that were legends in their day and now really have nothing to show for it other than arthritis and a lot of bitterness. But I also know people that took the time to get jobs and plan for a future who still skate and are able to live comfortably, some of them even in the skate industry. But they are in the minority, thats for sure.

Nike offers 401ks. Crailtap does not.



Glurmpz

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #171 on: September 16, 2020, 10:11:49 AM »
Nike more or less has singlehandedly made being a professional skateboarder a viable career option for the first time ever.
They bought their way in for sure, but skateboarders were happy to let them.

.

Popular opinion here seems to be that Nike buying Janoskis naming rights was a bad thing. Nobody put a gun to his head and made him sign the papers (well, it is Nike, so maybe they did) but he got more money than he could ever spend in one lifetime. I've seen the dudes house, he'll get by somehow.



If you think Nike is the first time pro skaters were able to have a viable career then you probably haven't been skating a long time, or just don't know much about the industry. Sure, riding for Nike pays enough to provide more security, but to insinuate that no one made enough money to qualify as a career before Nike SB was a thing is just plain naive.

You also seem to have missed the part where Janoski debunked that name buy out rumor years ago.

El Chupacabra

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #172 on: September 16, 2020, 10:20:30 AM »
I said a "viable" career.

Of course people have made careers as pro skaters for a long time. No shit. If they hadn't we wouldn't be talking about it here.

Since we're discussing missing parts, maybe you missed the part about where are they now?

As far as the Janoski thing goes, true or not, thats kind of irrelevant. Either way he's richer than god. But there is only one of him.

Please continue to out "OG" me on the internet though, by all means.

Glurmpz

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #173 on: September 16, 2020, 10:30:34 AM »
I said a "viable" career.

Of course people have made careers as pro skaters for a long time. No shit. If they hadn't we wouldn't be talking about it here now.

Since we're talking about missing parts, maybe you missed the bit about where are they now?

As far as the Janoski thing goes, true or not, thats kind of irrelevant. Either way he's richer than god now. But there is only one of him.



I also said a viable career. There's plenty of pros who never rode for Nike who are doing fine. Also important to remember the majority of Nike riders aren't being paid enough money to retire on either, just the top guys. A "viable" career is completely subjective - lots of people don't need a lot of money to live on, some others do.

As for the Janoski thing, I just pointed out that you were pushing a long since debunked rumor - sorry if that ruffled your feathers.


El Chupacabra

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #174 on: September 16, 2020, 10:46:16 AM »
End of the day, pro skaters are no different than NASCAR drivers.

Paid by sponsors to wear a logo to move units.

Biggest difference is the amount of money the overlords are willing to kick down to us.

Nike is in no way above criticism at all. But they generally treat skaters better than the core companies do.


Dwyck

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #175 on: September 16, 2020, 12:30:31 PM »
Quote from: Atiba Applebum
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But hey guys, thereís a brand new book out called No Logo by Naomi Klein you should check out.  Then we can meet in Seattle and protest the WTO.  Iím sure everyone there will be fascinated by your 20-30 year old stances.   I donít need to be told thereís no ethical consumption under capitalism.   

This thread reminds me of my mom.  In the 60s she was a Goldwater republican/colonelís daughter in Oklahoma.  She didnít question the government until decades later and Trumpís candidacy/election and the Ken Burnís Vietnam documentary.  Now she wonít shut up about the government lying to its citizens, keeping things from us, and perhaps not always working to benefit their constituents.  Itís lovely she gets it, but itís annoying to hear it so so long after everyone else has accepted it.  Problem is, it doesnít lead to much personal change, it just festers as internalized cynicism and negativity
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When you turned 30 what did realize that allowed you to move beyond ďthese stancesĒ? Iím 40 maybe Iím just immature?

A way to avoid internalizing cynicism is to become materially involved. The terminal cynics are mostly terminally online. Seek out face to face organizing opportunities: join/start a union in your workplace, run for local office, start a relief organization, get involved in mutual aid, form a neighborhood organization that benefits your community, etc.
What the fuck do you think ive been doing in covid times, twiddling my thumbs while my neighbors starve? Is this just your gotcha everytime someone disagrees with you, that makes it okay for you to sit and stare at the wall getting mad about adbusters shit
Regular stance is a mental disorder defined by the DSM-5

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #176 on: September 16, 2020, 02:24:30 PM »
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I said a "viable" career.

Of course people have made careers as pro skaters for a long time. No shit. If they hadn't we wouldn't be talking about it here now.

Since we're talking about missing parts, maybe you missed the bit about where are they now?

As far as the Janoski thing goes, true or not, thats kind of irrelevant. Either way he's richer than god now. But there is only one of him.


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I also said a viable career. There's plenty of pros who never rode for Nike who are doing fine. Also important to remember the majority of Nike riders aren't being paid enough money to retire on either, just the top guys. A "viable" career is completely subjective - lots of people don't need a lot of money to live on, some others do.

As for the Janoski thing, I just pointed out that you were pushing a long since debunked rumor - sorry if that ruffled your feathers.

Does anyone have any idea what theyíre paid?   I was always shocked to hear the fat monthly checks DC and Osiris riders would get in the late 90s early 00s. 

nicotinewheel

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #177 on: September 16, 2020, 04:10:01 PM »
Quote from: Dwyck
What the fuck do you think ive been doing in covid times, twiddling my thumbs while my neighbors starve? Is this just your gotcha everytime someone disagrees with you, that makes it okay for you to sit and stare at the wall getting mad about adbusters shit
Iím glad youíre helping your neighbors.
You seem confused about what Iím saying.


Glurmpz

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #178 on: September 16, 2020, 04:21:57 PM »
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I said a "viable" career.

Of course people have made careers as pro skaters for a long time. No shit. If they hadn't we wouldn't be talking about it here now.

Since we're talking about missing parts, maybe you missed the bit about where are they now?

As far as the Janoski thing goes, true or not, thats kind of irrelevant. Either way he's richer than god now. But there is only one of him.


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I also said a viable career. There's plenty of pros who never rode for Nike who are doing fine. Also important to remember the majority of Nike riders aren't being paid enough money to retire on either, just the top guys. A "viable" career is completely subjective - lots of people don't need a lot of money to live on, some others do.

As for the Janoski thing, I just pointed out that you were pushing a long since debunked rumor - sorry if that ruffled your feathers.
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Does anyone have any idea what theyíre paid?   I was always shocked to hear the fat monthly checks DC and Osiris riders would get in the late 90s early 00s.

Not sure, but that's another important point - skaters were getting paid well if they were legit on a shoe brand before Nike etc stole so much of the market share... and all those teams had a much more cohesive image than these megacorps who sponsor 1000 people. 

bigdave

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Re: Weckingball of Nike SB
« Reply #179 on: September 16, 2020, 04:25:43 PM »
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I said a "viable" career.

Of course people have made careers as pro skaters for a long time. No shit. If they hadn't we wouldn't be talking about it here now.

Since we're talking about missing parts, maybe you missed the bit about where are they now?

As far as the Janoski thing goes, true or not, thats kind of irrelevant. Either way he's richer than god now. But there is only one of him.


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I also said a viable career. There's plenty of pros who never rode for Nike who are doing fine. Also important to remember the majority of Nike riders aren't being paid enough money to retire on either, just the top guys. A "viable" career is completely subjective - lots of people don't need a lot of money to live on, some others do.

As for the Janoski thing, I just pointed out that you were pushing a long since debunked rumor - sorry if that ruffled your feathers.
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Does anyone have any idea what theyíre paid?   I was always shocked to hear the fat monthly checks DC and Osiris riders would get in the late 90s early 00s.
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Not sure, but that's another important point - skaters were getting paid well if they were legit on a shoe brand before Nike etc stole so much of the market share... and all those teams had a much more cohesive image than these megacorps who sponsor 1000 people.


D3s made Mayhew a cool million one year.

Being on Circa or DVS or Sole Tech brands in the early 2000s with a signature show meant potentially 10K monthly checks.

Id venture a guess that Nike wasnt paying more than 5-6K per month to the original four, but gave them almost total carte blanche over their own program in terms of when they'd film, submit photos for ads, etc.