To magic carpet or not....

[Ok]

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Magic carpet. Better leverage, for turning. Less wheelbite, way less wheelbite actually.

[close]

I find the opposite to be true. If you have more leverage, and less space between the edge of the wheel and deck (due to concave), you can't possibly get less wheelbite, unless you changed the bushings or something.

Whut.
Magic carpet increases the space between wheel and deck. Pinch gods....run the opposite so that they pinch (wheelbite) quicker. As to flips, the narrower the base, the less resistance. I can feel this more subtly with wide vs narrow wheel shapes, and much more so with wide vs narrow trucks. Wide gives stability, narrow gives a quicker/deeper flip/turn. This is all from the what I think realm, and not hard science by any means.

[Firebert]

Magic carpet increases the space between wheel and deck.

The concave towards curves away from the trucks the further towards the edge of the deck. Placing the wheels more towards the center will decrease that space. This is just a fact pertaining to distance.

This is all from the what I think realm, and not hard science by any means.

Is there any scenario where more leverage over something increases the amount of force necessary to move said something? I think this part IS science....

[sketchyrider]

i get what youre saying but you are picking two variables (distance increase due to concave, greater leverage) and ignoring any others, namely the maximum turning radius of a truck.

a smaller truck will be able to max out its turning radius from the applied lean while still tucked fully under the deck, meaning you could do crazy turns without the wheel coming close to the deck.

this is also why a lot of truck companies increase the height of their wider trucks, sometimes without telling you.

[Firebert]

i get what youre saying but you are picking two variables (distance increase due to concave, greater leverage) and ignoring any others, namely the maximum turning radius of a truck.

All I'm saying is that leverage is disproportionate to the amount of force necessary.
More leverage = less force required, that's all.
I have identical setups all with Indy Ti 139s, 144s, and 149s all on an 8.25 deck (same bushings, cups and decks.) It is much easier to wb the 139s because you have more leverage.

a smaller truck will be able to max out its turning radius from the applied lean while still tucked fully under the deck, meaning you could do crazy turns without the wheel coming close to the deck.

This is where I misunderstood your point. I understand that with a smaller truck, you get a smaller turning radius for the same amount of pressure applied, and this is what you meant by "less wheelbite."

What I meant was that it took more pressure for me to actually get the wheels to bite on 149s with an 8.25 deck - even though my turns weren't as sharp as it was with 139s - I appreciated the ability to land slightly off balance without getting the wheels to bite.

[sketchyrider]

i hear what you're saying, and i think we're just arguing over semantics/feel as it often goes

you're saying that a narrower/lighter truck turns with way less force and i totally agree. i'm saying that a wider axle length will position your wheel closer to the edge of the board which is pressed down towards the ground, vs a shorter axle length that positions that wheel close to the center of the board which doesn't change height during a turn. the concave edges of the board are still closest to the ground during a turn, and gradually gets higher til you get to the center of the board. a narrow axle puts the wheels closer to that area.

i couldnt tell you if that force difference youre describing counteracts the distance difference im describing. maybe we can find a physics professor.

[Firebert]

the concave edges of the board are still closest to the ground during a turn, and gradually gets higher til you get to the center of the board.

Now I think you may be riding your boards upside down... is this the polarizer thread?

[sketchyrider]

last post before i give up: even with concave, the edge of your board is closest to the ground when you turn , compared with the rest of the deck. always. the wider your trucks, the closer to this edge your wheels will be, all other things equal.

lets say your trucks are turned 45 degrees inward: you will do the same turn with narrow or wide trucks (on the same deck). but the wider trucks will position wheels toward the area that is closer to the ground. the narrower trucks bring it closer towards the center, which has more clearance (again, when you turn).

again i get that you're saying a narrower truck takes less force to turn, but you will have to give it more angle to get wheelbite. so you can get a sharper turn with narrow trucks before it hits the deck.

[Firebert]

last post before i give up:

Thanks for your patience, I totally understand what you're saying now.

[Lukabrazi]

8.125"- 8.18" on Venture light 5.2 Low

pretty sure there is slight magic carpet going on, but I use two inside washers on each wheel. pretty much perfect for me.

[Ok]

last post before i give up: even with concave, the edge of your board is closest to the ground when you turn , compared with the rest of the deck. always. the wider your trucks, the closer to this edge your wheels will be, all other things equal.

lets say your trucks are turned 45 degrees inward: you will do the same turn with narrow or wide trucks (on the same deck). but the wider trucks will position wheels toward the area that is closer to the ground. the narrower trucks bring it closer towards the center, which has more clearance (again, when you turn).

again i get that you're saying a narrower truck takes less force to turn, but you will have to give it more angle to get wheelbite. so you can get a sharper turn with narrow trucks before it hits the deck.

Much more articulate than I was. But yeah, this.

[Gabagoolslide]

shit doesn’t matter keep it within a 1/2” either way, never really think about it

[SlapRhaters]

if you are a tech guy but can't land shit like switch 360 flips then you want your trucks skinner as it will flip easier.

If you want to hit hand rails then you want your tricks a little bigger then the deck.

[rocklobster]

8.125"- 8.18" on Venture light 5.2 Low

pretty sure there is slight magic carpet going on, but I use two inside washers on each wheel. pretty much perfect for me.

Same here, revisiting 8.25" boards so I went up to Venture 5.6.

[Murge]

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8.125"- 8.18" on Venture light 5.2 Low

pretty sure there is slight magic carpet going on, but I use two inside washers on each wheel. pretty much perfect for me.

[close]

Same here, revisiting 8.25" boards so I went up to Venture 5.6.

That’s where I’m at. But I’m coming off 8.5s. And I’m looking for an 8.3 with a 14-14.25 wheel base. And I think it will be my Goldilocks. But only one I can find is a Santa Cruz and idk.  8.5a and 149s would give me an insane sharp pain in ankle every flip tricks and the 8.25 and 5.6s I haven’t got it so I’m sure if board or trucks was the issue or my ankle magically healed when I switched over. But it’s not hurt since the switch

[Ok]

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8.125"- 8.18" on Venture light 5.2 Low

pretty sure there is slight magic carpet going on, but I use two inside washers on each wheel. pretty much perfect for me.

[close]

Same here, revisiting 8.25" boards so I went up to Venture 5.6.

[close]

That’s where I’m at. But I’m coming off 8.5s. And I’m looking for an 8.3 with a 14-14.25 wheel base. And I think it will be my Goldilocks. But only one I can find is a Santa Cruz and idk.  8.5a and 149s would give me an insane sharp pain in ankle every flip tricks and the 8.25 and 5.6s I haven’t got it so I’m sure if board or trucks was the issue or my ankle magically healed when I switched over. But it’s not hurt since the switch

One my least favorite things about bigger setups is the pain/tiredness they bring. Easier to land on sure, but my Mr Burns physique isn’t throwing those beasts around. Smaller setups let me skate a little bit longer.

Shit I like 8.25” on 5.2 lo’s. But again? Don’t really need to skate a board that wide, so I don’t.

[rocklobster]

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8.125"- 8.18" on Venture light 5.2 Low

pretty sure there is slight magic carpet going on, but I use two inside washers on each wheel. pretty much perfect for me.

[close]

Same here, revisiting 8.25" boards so I went up to Venture 5.6.

[close]

That’s where I’m at. But I’m coming off 8.5s. And I’m looking for an 8.3 with a 14-14.25 wheel base. And I think it will be my Goldilocks. But only one I can find is a Santa Cruz and idk.  8.5a and 149s would give me an insane sharp pain in ankle every flip tricks and the 8.25 and 5.6s I haven’t got it so I’m sure if board or trucks was the issue or my ankle magically healed when I switched over. But it’s not hurt since the switch

[close]

One my least favorite things about bigger setups is the pain/tiredness they bring. Easier to land on sure, but my Mr Burns physique isn’t throwing those beasts around. Smaller setups let me skate a little bit longer.

Shit I like 8.25” on 5.2 lo’s. But again? Don’t really need to skate a board that wide, so I don’t.

I thought I settled on 8 - 8.125 but recently came into a Santa Cruz P2 in 8.25, very lightly used. Hopefully a regular skate schedule will help with adjusting to 8.25.

[hillbilly shifty]

My choice of wheel shape + size is a big factor in truck size for a specific deck.
Usually run F4 Classics in 52mm. They have a narrow contact patch, similar to a Bones V1
I love an Indy 144 on an 8.0 deck for this wheel shape, since the contact patch is still within the deck edges.
If I'm doing a fatter wheel like a 54mm keyframe or conical full, the truck width=deck width. or even truck width<deck since the contact patch will still be at/just under the edges of the deck.

[sammyz]

I like a small amount of magic carpet, not too much...like 8.25 truck for up 8.4 deck...also ride SF classics. I prefer it cause theres less chance of landing primo...i don’t like seeing wheels or the ends of the axle...technically i dont feel it helps with any tricks, but thats mainly because i know fuck all tricks.

[GBLange]

I like em flush when used on a egg shape deck

[ok boomer]

Trucks same size as deck, or deck a smidge bigger. Just seeing how many people say "trucks wider than deck" is going to give me nightmares

[tzhangdox]

Gonna bump this thread as I kinda shat on magic carpet setups last time I tried. That was right after I sized down from 8.5 to 8.25 and went from 8.5 trucks to 8 inch trucks, so maybe too drastic a change.

Been skating 8.38s for a while now with 5.8 ventures, was grinding on a bent axle so decided to retire them. Tried some 5.6s (two washers on the inside) and I think I kinda like it, could see myself running these for a while in the future.

Pros:

Noticed the 'leverage' everyone talks about, a lot of flip tricks I'm not as good at just worked a lil better. Probably wasn't used to the trucks enough to take full advantage of it but I can definitely see it helping in the long run.

Sharper turns (nice especially on ventures)

A bit less jamming on nose/tail slides. Like when you overturn a front nose and your wheels jam on the ledge, that seemed to happen a bit less with these which was nice.

Didn't really try today but I'm pretty sure with some overhang its easier to break into powerslides, not really a big deal either way

Cons:
Definitely more wheelbite. If I didn't land right felt like I was more likely to fall off.

Less grind space, so far doesn't seem to be a dealbreaker. Plus its pretty minimal with the extra washer on the inside. May change my mind on this given more time. I don't grind as many round flatbars or really shitty concrete ledges anymore, so not as fussed about this as I used to be

Pinched a lil worse, but I'm almost certain thats just due to not having grooves.

Next two boards are 8.5, curious to see how thats going to feel with the overhang but maybe itll make the 8.5s more manageable.

[Frank]

i hate truck overhang, i like flush or slight carpet.

[Fhk]

I like all of the above. They all flip different but in a good way. I know my kick,heel, and 360 flips are more consistent and look way better with wider trucks and bigger wheels, but it's way to tiresome. I feel like I over flip magic carpet and the fear of primo is hard to shake.

[drunk guy]

8.1 board or 8 if i cant get 8.1 on 825 ventures, might switch to ace soon but ill be running the same set up

[TimmyB88]

I did the whole 8.5 board with 8.75 trucks forever but realized it actually hindered grinds because the leverage was out a little too far. Since then I've moved to 8.75 boards and kept the trucks the same. It's much better now, A perfect match to the board will always be best!

I can't stand the magic carpet stuff unless your riding a shaped board. Since the back end is usually more narrow I will match the trucks to the back instead of the front to avoid the hot rod poke.

[HeavyAndExpensive]

I have 139s on an 8.06, but that's so close it might as well be the same size.

On my shaped cruiser I have 159s, which match perfectly in the back and probably a little magic carpety in front.
Weren't all those old 80s vert boards outfitted with 159s being a little too small for the decks?

[Mr. Stinky]

I only ride 8.25" and 8.38" decks, so I ride 8.25" trucks on 8.25" decks, but prefer 8.5" trucks on 8.38" decks.  None of this makes a real difference for the most part, though.  We've created an online world of delusion where we can tell the difference when it comes to this stuff and just keep doubling down on convincing each other it's all true. 

Anyway, put radial slims on there and there's no hot rodding, plus you get the benefit of wider trucks and the extra space on the hanger from skinnier wheels.  Works real nice. 

[Fhk]

I only ride 8.25" and 8.38" decks, so I ride 8.25" trucks on 8.25" decks, but prefer 8.5" trucks on 8.38" decks. None of this makes a real difference for the most part, though.  We've created an online world of delusion where we can tell the difference when it comes to this stuff and just keep doubling down on convincing each other it's all true.

Anyway, put radial slims on there and there's no hot rodding, plus you get the benefit of wider trucks and the extra space on the hanger from skinnier wheels.  Works real nice.

Blasphemy!
Actually come to think of it my skating sucks whether it's on a 7.5 or a 9.5
Fuck.

[Urtripping]

I'm a hot rodder, mostly because I really hate changing trucks. Been running my loose AF1 55's on 8.0's for the last few months and I personally love it. However, I am kicking around doing a flip trick experiment of my own to find out how a smaller truck would change things. I don't know, I flip my board quite a bit but I really like the feeling of a sturdier, heavier setup beneath my feet even if it flips a little slower.

As far as turning goes, I run 1/8 in risers and shaved down bushings... I can put all my weight on one side of the board and do tight circles. You can make wider trucks turn just fine if you monkey with them.

Edit: I think I just got used to how wide tricks feel after riding 8.5s for years and I don't want to change that part of my setup despite embracing narrower boards

[FrozenIndustries]

Posted as much in the Polar thread, but magic carpet can also beneficial for slappies. More leverage.