Author Topic: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick  (Read 5323 times)

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rocklobster

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2021, 06:38:01 PM »
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I tried dedicating a session to these today and man, this seems like a Herculean task. I got my tail over the curb a grand total of one time every other try the board wouldnít really stick to my feet and would just rocket pop off the ground while I planted my back foot on the curb.
[close]

Over the past week I managed to get them fairly consistent on a low ledge and even a knee high one, can get a lock 3/5 of the time and a slide every 6 tries or so. I break it down into 3 steps:
1) Pop - can be hard to commit to it especially when rolling blindside towards the ledge, but it's the 1st stage of commitment
2) Drag sideways - depending on how tall the ledge is, dragging side ways does 50% of the rotation and the lock, you actually pop much lower than you think you do, focusing on dragging sideways helps control the height and keeps the board connected to your back foot
3) Slot - this does the remaining 50% of the rotation but you have to slightly over-rotate the tail to lock in, that over-rotation helps get the baseplate contact but more importantly overcoming the inertia of the lock, I always reference the picture below when explaining the slot



After weeks of work I'm finally able to get them rolling out regular instead of just slipping out fakie. I found success just focusing on my lead hand (left) and tell myself to point it forward / parallel to the ledge during slides. That helped with keeping the shoulders parallel enough so my board was not over-rotated and forced out to fakie by momentum alone. Telling myself to keep my shoulder straight to the ledge resulted in under-rotation, so I would lock in only 45 degrees or I would stick after locking in.
[close]

Well my problem was just committing to ollieing backside. Today I got into about 15 stalls where I just stand on them on the curb, the actual turn and lock in comes fairly naturally to me I just have to trick myself into doing 3/4s of a back 50-50 then turning at the last minute. Iím not quite confident enough to slide them but to be honest Iím just really excited to get stalls because a few days ago they seemed impossible.

I found the hardest part committing to the BS ollie, can be a real mind fuck not being able to see where you're supposed to lock your tail into. Since you're getting the stall, apply a tiny bit of wax to the ledge, you may get a little bit of a slide going.

dime a dozen trend skater

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2021, 07:01:52 PM »
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I tried dedicating a session to these today and man, this seems like a Herculean task. I got my tail over the curb a grand total of one time every other try the board wouldnít really stick to my feet and would just rocket pop off the ground while I planted my back foot on the curb.
[close]

Over the past week I managed to get them fairly consistent on a low ledge and even a knee high one, can get a lock 3/5 of the time and a slide every 6 tries or so. I break it down into 3 steps:
1) Pop - can be hard to commit to it especially when rolling blindside towards the ledge, but it's the 1st stage of commitment
2) Drag sideways - depending on how tall the ledge is, dragging side ways does 50% of the rotation and the lock, you actually pop much lower than you think you do, focusing on dragging sideways helps control the height and keeps the board connected to your back foot
3) Slot - this does the remaining 50% of the rotation but you have to slightly over-rotate the tail to lock in, that over-rotation helps get the baseplate contact but more importantly overcoming the inertia of the lock, I always reference the picture below when explaining the slot



After weeks of work I'm finally able to get them rolling out regular instead of just slipping out fakie. I found success just focusing on my lead hand (left) and tell myself to point it forward / parallel to the ledge during slides. That helped with keeping the shoulders parallel enough so my board was not over-rotated and forced out to fakie by momentum alone. Telling myself to keep my shoulder straight to the ledge resulted in under-rotation, so I would lock in only 45 degrees or I would stick after locking in.
[close]

Well my problem was just committing to ollieing backside. Today I got into about 15 stalls where I just stand on them on the curb, the actual turn and lock in comes fairly naturally to me I just have to trick myself into doing 3/4s of a back 50-50 then turning at the last minute. Iím not quite confident enough to slide them but to be honest Iím just really excited to get stalls because a few days ago they seemed impossible.
[close]

I found the hardest part committing to the BS ollie, can be a real mind fuck not being able to see where you're supposed to lock your tail into. Since you're getting the stall, apply a tiny bit of wax to the ledge, you may get a little bit of a slide going.

Iím gonna go at them some more tomorrow but Iím gonna try and get the stalls a little more consistent before sliding, I feel like I donít get into them consistently enough so if I do slide Iíd surprise myself and slip out and wind myself lol

rocklobster

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2021, 07:23:47 PM »
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I tried dedicating a session to these today and man, this seems like a Herculean task. I got my tail over the curb a grand total of one time every other try the board wouldnít really stick to my feet and would just rocket pop off the ground while I planted my back foot on the curb.
[close]

Over the past week I managed to get them fairly consistent on a low ledge and even a knee high one, can get a lock 3/5 of the time and a slide every 6 tries or so. I break it down into 3 steps:
1) Pop - can be hard to commit to it especially when rolling blindside towards the ledge, but it's the 1st stage of commitment
2) Drag sideways - depending on how tall the ledge is, dragging side ways does 50% of the rotation and the lock, you actually pop much lower than you think you do, focusing on dragging sideways helps control the height and keeps the board connected to your back foot
3) Slot - this does the remaining 50% of the rotation but you have to slightly over-rotate the tail to lock in, that over-rotation helps get the baseplate contact but more importantly overcoming the inertia of the lock, I always reference the picture below when explaining the slot



After weeks of work I'm finally able to get them rolling out regular instead of just slipping out fakie. I found success just focusing on my lead hand (left) and tell myself to point it forward / parallel to the ledge during slides. That helped with keeping the shoulders parallel enough so my board was not over-rotated and forced out to fakie by momentum alone. Telling myself to keep my shoulder straight to the ledge resulted in under-rotation, so I would lock in only 45 degrees or I would stick after locking in.
[close]

Well my problem was just committing to ollieing backside. Today I got into about 15 stalls where I just stand on them on the curb, the actual turn and lock in comes fairly naturally to me I just have to trick myself into doing 3/4s of a back 50-50 then turning at the last minute. Iím not quite confident enough to slide them but to be honest Iím just really excited to get stalls because a few days ago they seemed impossible.
[close]

I found the hardest part committing to the BS ollie, can be a real mind fuck not being able to see where you're supposed to lock your tail into. Since you're getting the stall, apply a tiny bit of wax to the ledge, you may get a little bit of a slide going.
[close]

Iím gonna go at them some more tomorrow but Iím gonna try and get the stalls a little more consistent before sliding, I feel like I donít get into them consistently enough so if I do slide Iíd surprise myself and slip out and wind myself lol

After doing them for a bit I'm less fearful of slipping on a BS tailslide than a FS one. Yes the chance of face planting on the ledge is higher, but I have eyes on the ledge so I can break my fall. For FS ones I'm falling behind myself, so it's harder to know where to but my hands to control the fall. Probably a different story if I'm doing them down a hubba ledge or rail, but I'm not going down the THPS path of going pro.

dime a dozen trend skater

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I have no idea how some of you say these are easier on a taller ledge, I can do a small little slide about every try on a curb with decent speed however I canít do them for shit on a foot tall ledge. I really struggle with getting that backside pop on an actual ledge most of the time when I pop I will instinctively jump backwards onto the ledge leaving my board out in front of me to fall to the ground. I tried one on a box today for like 2 hours today and all I had to show for it was a stall.

Question for anyone whoís really good at them, I notice a lot of guys will sort of open up their shoulders to wind up into the rotation for these, but I want to know is it just your shoulders that are open and from your hips down you are parallel to the ledge still? I think my problem might be I setup too much like a nose slide/crooked grind when I do them on something taller where my hips are angled slightly open.

tzhangdox

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I have no idea how some of you say these are easier on a taller ledge, I can do a small little slide about every try on a curb with decent speed however I canít do them for shit on a foot tall ledge. I really struggle with getting that backside pop on an actual ledge most of the time when I pop I will instinctively jump backwards onto the ledge leaving my board out in front of me to fall to the ground. I tried one on a box today for like 2 hours today and all I had to show for it was a stall.

Question for anyone whoís really good at them, I notice a lot of guys will sort of open up their shoulders to wind up into the rotation for these, but I want to know is it just your shoulders that are open and from your hips down you are parallel to the ledge still? I think my problem might be I setup too much like a nose slide/crooked grind when I do them on something taller where my hips are angled slightly open.

I find that it works better when I don't open up my shoulders to wind up when rolling up for coming out to regular, I try to have them a bit more parallel, pop a little bit more blindly and just look down/at my back foot right after I pop. To come out to fakie I can have my shoulders a bit more open, as I do much more of a full 180 turn after popping.

Having your shoulders a bit open isn't necessarily a problem if you're able to quickly turn and close them off right as you pop, but if you're struggling to get enough of a turn to get into a nice slide with good form then it may be worth trying to have them a bit closed off.

Billy Bitchcakes

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I tried dedicating a session to these today and man, this seems like a Herculean task. I got my tail over the curb a grand total of one time every other try the board wouldnít really stick to my feet and would just rocket pop off the ground while I planted my back foot on the curb.

This is exactly what I do every time. Sometimes I'll be in bed picturing it and they seem to make perfect sense but as soon as I roll up to a ledge I just have a huge brain fart and can't get my head around doing anything but what you describe. Been skating for 20 years and they've never made sense to me, I had them for about 3 days once about 11 years ago.
Kooking me just makes me stronger.

exlurker

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I tried dedicating a session to these today and man, this seems like a Herculean task. I got my tail over the curb a grand total of one time every other try the board wouldnít really stick to my feet and would just rocket pop off the ground while I planted my back foot on the curb.
[close]

This is exactly what I do every time. Sometimes I'll be in bed picturing it and they seem to make perfect sense but as soon as I roll up to a ledge I just have a huge brain fart and can't get my head around doing anything but what you describe. Been skating for 20 years and they've never made sense to me, I had them for about 3 days once about 11 years ago.

This is my story exactly. I lie awake in bed and think i have a mental breakthrough that will fix everything, only for my hopes to be shredded when i put foot to board. I'm resigned to only nollie back tails on ledges i guess

dime a dozen trend skater

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I tried dedicating a session to these today and man, this seems like a Herculean task. I got my tail over the curb a grand total of one time every other try the board wouldnít really stick to my feet and would just rocket pop off the ground while I planted my back foot on the curb.
[close]

This is exactly what I do every time. Sometimes I'll be in bed picturing it and they seem to make perfect sense but as soon as I roll up to a ledge I just have a huge brain fart and can't get my head around doing anything but what you describe. Been skating for 20 years and they've never made sense to me, I had them for about 3 days once about 11 years ago.
[close]

This is my story exactly. I lie awake in bed and think i have a mental breakthrough that will fix everything, only for my hopes to be shredded when i put foot to board. I'm resigned to only nollie back tails on ledges i guess

Youíve probably heard every tip in the book by now but whatís helped me get them, on curbs at least is to use the front foot to ďsteerĒ your back foot onto the ledge. If you get a solid straight pop then in the air then sort of whip your front foot sideways (I try to draw a backwards r with my front foot after I pop) itís a lot easier to lock in. My problem was I would try to use my back foot to initiate the rotation so the board would just fall off my feet because I didnít have that friction from my front foot dragging.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 02:43:47 PM by dime a dozen trend skater »

rocklobster

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I tried dedicating a session to these today and man, this seems like a Herculean task. I got my tail over the curb a grand total of one time every other try the board wouldnít really stick to my feet and would just rocket pop off the ground while I planted my back foot on the curb.
[close]

This is exactly what I do every time. Sometimes I'll be in bed picturing it and they seem to make perfect sense but as soon as I roll up to a ledge I just have a huge brain fart and can't get my head around doing anything but what you describe. Been skating for 20 years and they've never made sense to me, I had them for about 3 days once about 11 years ago.
[close]

This is my story exactly. I lie awake in bed and think i have a mental breakthrough that will fix everything, only for my hopes to be shredded when i put foot to board. I'm resigned to only nollie back tails on ledges i guess
[close]

Youíve probably heard every tip in the book by now but whatís helped me get them, on curbs at least is to use the front foot to ďsteerĒ your back foot onto the ledge. If you get a solid pop straight pop then in the air then sort of whip your front foot sideways (I try to draw a backwards r with my front foot after I pop) itís a lot easier to lock in. My problem was I would try to use my back foot to initiate the rotation so the board would just fall off my feet because I didnít have that friction from my front foot dragging.

When I was learning them I broke it down to 3 steps:
1) Pop - get a solid one, not too hard, not too soft, but a committed one
2) Drag (sideways) - front foot does majority of the controlled rotation, dragging up to match the height of the ledge
3) Slot - last bit of the rotation and lock is all back foot, slot the tail onto the side of the ledge instead of smacking it down hard, the slot (and slight over-rotation of the back foot) enables the baseplate contact and overcome the inertia of the initial lock

Edit: The only ledge available to me at the moment is a short one around 8 inches tall. I'm used to skating taller ledges, but out of necessity I tried to get them consistent on the low one. Aside from shifting my front foot further up the board for a lower pop, I focused on the sideways drag till it caught the concave / kicks of the deck. That helped me control the height and better estimate the rotation. I'm sure it's similar for other tricks, just never thought of the importance of the kicks in limiting the drag till today.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 08:28:58 AM by rocklobster »

willphansbiggestfan

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #69 on: August 24, 2021, 01:33:44 PM »
If you have naturally good backside 180s just think of it as bs 90. This trick was always impossible for me when thinking about it like an ollie with a tweak
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 01:52:42 PM by willphansbiggestfan »

goingapelikenigo

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2021, 03:52:34 AM »
Got backside 5-0s recently so I got the courage to try these yesterday, Only landed a couple suskis and one suski to tail. But I've tried stalling these before and never got this close so I feel the 5-0 really helped me. Gonna try the push today  ;D

rocklobster

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2021, 05:43:48 AM »
Got backside 5-0s recently so I got the courage to try these yesterday, Only landed a couple suskis and one suski to tail. But I've tried stalling these before and never got this close so I feel the 5-0 really helped me. Gonna try the push today  ;D

You're almost there! Focus on getting the back foot to slot the tail into the ground, almost over-exaggerate it. That helps to overcome the inertia of getting into the lock.

A buddy of mine (fuck his gifted feet) learned this recently too and he employs a much gentler lock into the slide. I tend to pop my tail much higher than the ledge, hence the need to exaggerate the slotting motion to keep the forward momentum. Also means coming out fakie feels more natural and I have to counteract the rotation to come out regular. He locks in just above the ledge and gets much more control on his slide.

Mean salto

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2021, 11:02:57 AM »
Weird things I did first that I think helped(but may or may not help)

Learned fakie Ollie back tailslide. You can see the ledge on the roll up and get used to what sliding in that position feels like. Maybe you can switch front noseslide but that's not me.

Ollie from over the end of the ledge. Either exactly in line with the coping or even a bit over so the coping is a touch frontside. Then once you get used to locking in start going more and more properly backside. Sometimes popping from before the ledge even starts also helps for me

Find a bank to ledge to learn on

Murge

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #73 on: September 16, 2021, 04:50:02 PM »
At this point Iím starting to think I have a better chance of front 180 to back tail. Itís not 270 back tail cause I turn sharply 90 ish to be perpendicular with curb. (Yeah curb Iím old sure ainít pulling this on a ledge ) then do a front 180.

Tony

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2021, 08:31:35 AM »
What helped me was keeping my shoulders square with the ledge, but whatever
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goingapelikenigo

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #75 on: September 22, 2021, 12:58:43 AM »
got way closer after trying to push a slide, way easier to lock in to the trick if i think about it like that. also keeping my shoulders square with the ledge helped but i'm still landning in suski mostly. doesn't feel too far away though which is crazy to me.  ;D

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #76 on: September 25, 2021, 02:51:56 PM »
Advice for not slipping out and almost falling on my face so often?

rocklobster

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #77 on: September 26, 2021, 06:28:03 PM »
Advice for not slipping out and almost falling on my face so often?

If you're slipping out it could mean you're dipping your head too much or your tail is locking too far ahead on the ledge, I find aiming 3 inches in front of where I'm popping to be the right distance.

Loosen up the shoulders and keep them parallel-ish with the ledge, that will ensure your eyes are looking forward.

I come our Fakie 95% of the time but when I want to force myself to come out regular I tell myself to focus on pointing my leading arm down and forwards. Then I tell myself to focus on looking at my leading hand. Thinking about keeping my shoulder position gives me too much to worry about, so focusing on my leading hand helps prevent sensory overload.

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2021, 06:39:21 AM »
I've had a break-through recently with sliding BSTs better, and I think a lot of my past problems have had to do with a lack of ankle flexibility in my back foot.

I'm still really inflexible, but recently i've been trying to keep a mental picture in my head of trying to lock in to the slide with a 45ļ angle between my back foot and my ankle, so my whole foot perches on the tail instead of just my toes, and i've gotten some of the longest slides of my life in recent weeks. Historically i've only bonked BSTs with minimal slide and it always felt like a crapshoot.

So. much. fun.

Paperclip20

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2021, 04:17:36 AM »
I've had a break-through recently with sliding BSTs better, and I think a lot of my past problems have had to do with a lack of ankle flexibility in my back foot.

I'm still really inflexible, but recently i've been trying to keep a mental picture in my head of trying to lock in to the slide with a 45ļ angle between my back foot and my ankle, so my whole foot perches on the tail instead of just my toes, and i've gotten some of the longest slides of my life in recent weeks. Historically i've only bonked BSTs with minimal slide and it always felt like a crapshoot.

So. much. fun.

Super hyped for you. I've recently improved my slides aswell. I noticed for myself my weight and body were way too hunched over to sit on them. So recently I've been focused on my posture while popping in. Keeping my chest more upright gave me a bunch of stability.

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #80 on: October 29, 2021, 06:51:50 AM »
Idk much about ledge skating. But on transition, you want to be just about gripping your rail/ back rail "pocket" with your toes through your shoe. Come up the ramp at a slight angle, but by the time you're popping ideally you're about to be parallel with the coping. Give it a scoop, float for a split second, and then stomp it forward, which I guess I would equate to the "push" you guys are talking about. If you're overrotating into fakie, you've let it get away from you and your shoulders have rotated to the point where you'd be contorted/ thrown off the board if you came out regular. Looking over your shoulder is what keeps your upper half of your body in check. Also, everything gets a little more comfy when you go faster.

willphansbiggestfan

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2021, 02:03:01 PM »
This trick becomes easy once you figure out how to seperate your shoulders from your hips. And coming at a bit of angle

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2021, 01:30:51 PM »
180ís to tailstall can help but theyíre not necessary at all to do bs tailslide.
Iíd say focus more on back 50-50ís, 5-0ís and ollieing up curbs/ledges blindside. The less you see the object the better.
Try to be as much aware as possible where the edge of the ledge is.
Then is just about popping, turning your hips not your shoulders to get that tail sliding. Itís scary committing to it first.
Eventually youíll get the timing right.

lazer69

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Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2021, 11:38:18 PM »
Had a personal breakthrough today. What made em work today is I pretended I was doing them switch so I set up my feet and body that way - foot instead of pointed to the side, I had it perpendicular to the board And hips squared off. If my explanation makes nonsense just watch people doing them switch.

rocklobster

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When I miss on this trick it is because I am leaning too far back and my board will shoot out. I expect this to happen warming up and will eventually find the right amount of pressure. If you just Ollie to tail you will stop dead.

The push is where your back foot gets slightly out ahead of your body. You are not 90 degrees your front foot is in back of your front foot.

I will try to find a picture that illustrates my point.




Look at the action on the back foot. See the heal lift and the back leg angle. Thatís that PUSH...
[close]

Great explanation and the pic.
[close]

Youíre welcome.

Editors note: it is impossible for ones front foot to be in back of ones front foot. I meant back foot but I am sure you interpreted that.

Skating is so weird that I look at people who FS tail slide like why do you look so good on that I suck and then BSTS and the other guy thinks the same thing. My body just moves backside so much easier. Front side I always open up or something. Maybe I just need to find the right ledge/high curb. I donít get any enjoyment skating boxes anymore. Feels like practice and the ones and the park use aluminum edging which sucks to grind.

Have a good day...
[close]

Some observations from today:
"The Push" works - 1st one I tried today I got a decent slide and exited forward, the 2nd one I tried I slid got out fakie, then nothing in between for around 20 tries till my last 4 in the session where I got a solid lock and exited fakie with a proper pop out instead of slipping out.
1) It's counter-intuitive because you would think that the added push would cause over-rotation and the deck slipping out. But "The Push" helps to get the baseplate slotted into the ledge perfectly while overcoming the inertia from the initial lock of the tail.
2) I still got stuck on a lot of the attempts but I attribute that to under-rotation from not committing, not looking back or smashing my tail from above the ledge and not staying on my toes.
3) The ledge I'm working on is tiny (6-7" max), a taller ledge like 10-12" seems ideal
4) Slight angle to parallel worked best for me, too much angle caused me to under-rotate my board and "The Push" couldn't compensate for it. While rolling up my front shoulder was pointing into the ledge slightly, that helped with opening up the shoulders to aid the rotation.

I visualized Josh Kalis' Backside Tailslides (and 360 flips) when I attempted the trick because he exaggerates "The Push". After sifting through his Memory Screen and IG but couldn't find the specific clip.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3j7akUD7cD/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

This one was the closest I came up with, in one of the last few trick you can seem him really jamming / slotting his tail into the ledge with his back foot. I guess that's where the hip rotation really makes the different - rotation of the board under foot with while maintaining the upper body parallel to the ledge.

Overall not a bad day, landed 6 (1 regular, 5 fakie) out of 20-ish tries. I was locking in a lot more consistently but sticking and the times I did lock in I could actually feel the baseplate slide instead of gliding haphazardly across the ledge. I still need to work on my hip rotation. "The Push" is scary and counter-intuitive - it definitely takes commitment to allow yourself to over-rotate so you actually rotate sufficiently.

Shoutout to @GardenSkater77, @jerrygurneyscream and @Billy Bitchcakes for your secret sauce.

I know it's a sin to quote yourself but a year after battling this trick i'm finally confident to say I have it consistently in my bag.

Over the 1 year of doing them I've made the following adjustments:
1) Approach with a mellower angle - less drastic rotation into the slide so I don't force myself out to Fakie prematurely
2) Separated by hips and shoulders during the slide - hips and lower body are perpendicular to the ledge for the lock, shoulders parallel to the ledge to continue to forward momentum and exit out both regular and Fakie
3) Popping lighter so I don't slam my tail onto the ledge - still get a solid pop so my tail actually leaves the ground but gently placing it on the ledge so stick way less
4) Being less reliant on the "slotting / pushing" technique - I skate smooth ledges with loads of wax so less need to push through the inertia, also less slamming my tail on the ledge (see point 3)

Taller ledges still need a few attempts to get used to the height, but I'm not spending 30 minutes fruitlessly rolling up and not popping at all.

Had a personal breakthrough today. What made em work today is I pretended I was doing them switch so I set up my feet and body that way - foot instead of pointed to the side, I had it perpendicular to the board And hips squared off. If my explanation makes nonsense just watch people doing them switch.

Any videos of skaters doing a solid switch one to illustrate?