Author Topic: 360 Flips  (Read 7473 times)

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Urtripping

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2021, 02:44:12 PM »
Yeah, no you're really supposed to jump for that trick (at least with the popped technique), which honestly makes it a bit tiring - at least they wear me out when I overdo them. You sort of sit over your popping leg and them you jump off it just like a ollie except the board leaves your feet due to their positioning and movement. One thing I used to do to teach me how to jump with the board and know where to catch it was to stare at my front bolts before popping and imagine where they would land, ahead of me and maybe slightly diagonally on the toe-side axis, which is what would dictate where I'd jump and try to catch the board with both feet. It would also remind me about the scooping forward thing, using that somewhat vertical rebound on the pop instead of just thinking 'sideways' and wasting energy just mindlessly flinging the board around. It's easy to start leaning over the nose subconsciously while thinking that though so if you start tinkering with eye sight, make sure you don't develop that other bad habit (which is essentially the opposite and causes you to jump too far ahead while the board stays behind you, because you were slightly off applying the right forces). In a way, to learn this trick one kind of has the find the right balance between both ends of that spectrum of mistake.

Trying to strike that balance is a helpful way to frame it, so far I have not had isues with leaning too far forward but as I get myself to actually jump and attempt to catch I'm sure I'll start leaning that way and will have to bring it back. At least I'll be mindful of not letting it become a habit!

I think even before that I just need to figure out how the timing of the jump and scoop should feel. The more I try to jump high, the worse my scoop feels, which to me suggests I need to work out the timing and how they pair together to make it happen. But the jump has gotta happen, otherwise I'll just keep posting up on the back leg after my little scoop.
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silhouette

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2021, 02:51:54 PM »
If you have access to a skatepark hip maybe you could try flinging a few over that (frontside so that you can underrotate them, not backside where you have to overrotate them), I'd say it's way easier than on flat there and takes less effort because the hip helps with the scoop and momentum you need, even if you don't commit it might help you understand how the trick is supposed to feel and you might even end up catching your first few there. When I was saying the jump felt like a ollie when done right, it's especially true on hips where you can basically just pop straight down really hard, suck both legs up and the trick forms itself under you just from the foot positioning.

Another idea would be to try them fakie on flat, especially if you can do the non-popped fakie 360 shoves (or the popped ones too, while we're at it). In that stance you don't have to work against the momentum and so the trick is a lot easier, it works just like a fakie 360 shove popped off the right pressure points and relies on nothing but precisely getting the right jump from there.

RichardBarkley

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2021, 04:22:14 PM »
Yeah, no you're really supposed to jump for that trick (at least with the popped technique), which honestly makes it a bit tiring - at least they wear me out when I overdo them. The way it feels, you sort of sit over your popping leg and then you jump off it just like a ollie except the board leaves your feet due to their positioning and movement. One thing I used to do as a kid to teach me how to jump with the board a bit better was to stare at my front bolts before popping and imagine where they would land, ahead of me and maybe slightly diagonally on the toe-side axis, which is what would dictate where I'd jump and try to catch the board with both feet. It would also help me keep my shoulders square and indirectly remind me about the scooping forward thing, using that somewhat vertical rebound on the pop instead of just thinking 'sideways' and wasting energy just mindlessly flinging the board around. It's easy to start leaning over the nose subconsciously while thinking that though so if you start tinkering with eye sight, make sure you don't develop that other bad habit (which is essentially the opposite and causes you to jump too far ahead while the board stays behind you, because you were slightly off applying the right forces). In a way, to learn this trick one kind of has the find the right balance between both ends of that spectrum of mistake.

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Murge

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2021, 09:08:01 AM »
Anyone got any tips on getting the kick flip rotation? I got the 360 part but most of the time it ends up upside down or if it does a complete 360 flip itís in front of me.

tzhangdox

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2021, 10:44:38 AM »
Anyone got any tips on getting the kick flip rotation? I got the 360 part but most of the time it ends up upside down or if it does a complete 360 flip itís in front of me.

Stick your front foot out a bit harder, you don't want to actually fully flick with your ankle like a kickflip, but your front foot does need to catch some griptape when the board starts rotating. One thing that helps me is to make sure my trucks are either level, or slightly leaning towards the heel side. If my trucks are leaning toe side I won't land it.

Seventyfuhkinseven

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2021, 11:34:48 AM »
Expand Quote
Anyone got any tips on getting the kick flip rotation? I got the 360 part but most of the time it ends up upside down or if it does a complete 360 flip itís in front of me.
[close]

Stick your front foot out a bit harder, you don't want to actually fully flick with your ankle like a kickflip, but your front foot does need to catch some griptape when the board starts rotating. One thing that helps me is to make sure my trucks are either level, or slightly leaning towards the heel side. If my trucks are leaning toe side I won't land it.
Great advice. Especially with the level trucks. In fact anybody really struggling with the scoop might benefit from tightening their trucks (at least the rear) while learning. Not that anyone would want to stick with tight trucks, but they could learn the consistency of the scoop and rear foot placement easier. Most people I have ever skated with that skate super loose trucks have had sloppy or inconsistent 360 flips, so there's gotta be something behind it..maybe
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tzhangdox

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2021, 12:09:19 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Anyone got any tips on getting the kick flip rotation? I got the 360 part but most of the time it ends up upside down or if it does a complete 360 flip itís in front of me.
[close]

Stick your front foot out a bit harder, you don't want to actually fully flick with your ankle like a kickflip, but your front foot does need to catch some griptape when the board starts rotating. One thing that helps me is to make sure my trucks are either level, or slightly leaning towards the heel side. If my trucks are leaning toe side I won't land it.
[close]
Great advice. Especially with the level trucks. In fact anybody really struggling with the scoop might benefit from tightening their trucks (at least the rear) while learning. Not that anyone would want to stick with tight trucks, but they could learn the consistency of the scoop and rear foot placement easier. Most people I have ever skated with that skate super loose trucks have had sloppy or inconsistent 360 flips, so there's gotta be something behind it..maybe

I don't skate crazy loose by any means, but my 360 flips are a bit worse if the trucks are too tight. My highest and most casual tre flips happen when I'm able to effortlessly, subconsciously lean the trucks slightly to the heel side when bending down and releasing (I think do this mostly with my front foot)

That being said, 360 flips have quite an unstable foot position if you're not used to it, so loose trucks can make setting up much harder when learning. I have this problem with my switch tres, hardest part is just standing comfortably in that position.

Mesteezo

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2021, 02:17:56 PM »

So you wanna do trey flips. Well hereís the big cat about to teach you how to Trey flip in the safari. Trey flips are arguably easier because you donít have to know how to flick with your front foot. Actually on the contrary you dont want your traditional ankle roll with a trey. Itís a big toe roll if you do it right. It helps to know 360 shuvits(not ollie 360 shuvits, non popped 3). The other thing about 360 flips is that you need to learn how to do a rocking motion with your back foot. So basically without your front foot on the board put the middle toe of your back foot right over the edge of the board rail on the back bolts, just the back foot, put 75-80% of your foot weight on your big toe in said position, then slowly rock to about 60% of your weight to your heel. Now after you have that subtle rocking, try to slide the wheels while you rock, use that toe to pull the slide and then go toe heel on the rock. After you learn how to pull it and rock it, then try to do it hard and pull your foot away. Eventually you will make it flip a 360 flip with just your back foot, kind of like a 360 flip no comply but you arenít really ďpoppingĒ like a no comply, so a really shitty no comply 360 flip. Eventually once your back foot can create that flip profile, then itís time to add the front foot. Put your front foot at about a 30 degree angle from the rail with about half of it on the board half off. Do the same back foot motion but this time jump, and flick your front foots toe down. I call this style of trey flip the toe down shaping. Extremely useful for flatground because it looks good and gives extreme consistency. Now this shaping once you want to take it to obstacles falls apart like a lot of different shapings for other tricks, but if Iím skating a contest and want to throw a flatground trey flip out there, thatís the type of shaping Iím gonna use because the percaentage of Landing it is highest. Once you figure out how to do traditional toe down shaping come back, and Iíll give you tips on how to do high shaped treys, or if you want to yo it out or do anotherís shaping profile this big cat will imbue you with the knowledge.

Straight from the Big Cat himself. Exactly 1  year ago today.

Mr. Stinky

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2021, 08:55:57 PM »
Lads, I'm fuckin' getting this trick, even more progress today where I am gaining a lot of control and understanding the timing better.
This thing was a real bitch, 20 years plus of eluding me and I feel like I'm about to nab this fucker and get it in the bag.  It's almost as if life will lose some small sense of purpose once I really have it down, I've been at it so long. Now I just need to practice practice practice and in a few short years I'll be that 40 year old flinging decent 360 flips and surprising the groms.

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2021, 11:38:19 PM »
Expand Quote

So you wanna do trey flips. Well hereís the big cat about to teach you how to Trey flip in the safari. Trey flips are arguably easier because you donít have to know how to flick with your front foot. Actually on the contrary you dont want your traditional ankle roll with a trey. Itís a big toe roll if you do it right. It helps to know 360 shuvits(not ollie 360 shuvits, non popped 3). The other thing about 360 flips is that you need to learn how to do a rocking motion with your back foot. So basically without your front foot on the board put the middle toe of your back foot right over the edge of the board rail on the back bolts, just the back foot, put 75-80% of your foot weight on your big toe in said position, then slowly rock to about 60% of your weight to your heel. Now after you have that subtle rocking, try to slide the wheels while you rock, use that toe to pull the slide and then go toe heel on the rock. After you learn how to pull it and rock it, then try to do it hard and pull your foot away. Eventually you will make it flip a 360 flip with just your back foot, kind of like a 360 flip no comply but you arenít really ďpoppingĒ like a no comply, so a really shitty no comply 360 flip. Eventually once your back foot can create that flip profile, then itís time to add the front foot. Put your front foot at about a 30 degree angle from the rail with about half of it on the board half off. Do the same back foot motion but this time jump, and flick your front foots toe down. I call this style of trey flip the toe down shaping. Extremely useful for flatground because it looks good and gives extreme consistency. Now this shaping once you want to take it to obstacles falls apart like a lot of different shapings for other tricks, but if Iím skating a contest and want to throw a flatground trey flip out there, thatís the type of shaping Iím gonna use because the percaentage of Landing it is highest. Once you figure out how to do traditional toe down shaping come back, and Iíll give you tips on how to do high shaped treys, or if you want to yo it out or do anotherís shaping profile this big cat will imbue you with the knowledge.
[close]

Straight from the Big Cat himself. Exactly 1  year ago today.

His posts and @silhouette's breakdown of the trick inspired this thread, bless you @cheetahsheets wherever you are now.

Lads, I'm fuckin' getting this trick, even more progress today where I am gaining a lot of control and understanding the timing better.
This thing was a real bitch, 20 years plus of eluding me and I feel like I'm about to nab this fucker and get it in the bag.  It's almost as if life will lose some small sense of purpose once I really have it down, I've been at it so long. Now I just need to practice practice practice and in a few short years I'll be that 40 year old flinging decent 360 flips and surprising the groms.

I attribute it to us learning it the hard way back in the 90's and 00's, the only guidance we got was scoop it hard, 75% back foot 25% front foot. I haven't done one in a few months, should spend some time this week working on them again.

Glad that this thread is helping skaters old and new land this elusive trick! Big Shalom!

silhouette

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2021, 11:23:08 AM »
^ Yeah I had to figure it out by myself as well back then, it was one of those 'hard' flip tricks no one in my hometown was doing (there was this gap of many years where this one and switch/nollie flip used to completely elude my local community for some reason, I guess because Luy-Pa had moved out and taken the wisdom with him) and at the time, I had no Internet so besides sequences in mags I had zero pointers. I especially remember first trying and realizing that thinking 'varial flip but harder' really wan't going to work and so I had to focus on the 360 shove first and foremost, and then as I learned how to form it I taught myself to stomp it with the naive visualization I described above.

For those struggling with figuring out how the flip should feel like, it's really like an upward motion (which is why I make so many ollie comparisons), basically picture the start of an ollie impossible except your front foot is the axis instead of the back foot and so with the right timing, you only need to suck that leg up and flick that toe from the grip tape underneath to get the flip going, hence why everyone says it feels completely different from a straight kickflip. Of course in reality it doesn't look like this but maybe it's good mental gymnastics and that also explains how people do 360 double flips, by focusing on the 'impossible' part a bit more so that the board sticks to the front foot harder pre pop and then the flip is exponentially more explosive (and funnily enough, those also feel like you're flicking through the board a lot more than normal 360 flips). There's one 'skate science' vulgarization video with a woman interviewing Mullen on YouTube that I ran into the other day that happened to explain this kind of principles quite well, for the curious and the bored.

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2021, 03:17:29 PM »
Came to give another obscure trick tip that helped my friend learn tres and recently helped me get back switch tres.
When bending down to pop I stare directly right above the kneecap on the flick foot (It will look below the knee from your perspective - itís also the point you rest your leg when youíre sitting down crossing your legs). Staring at that point seems to be so crucial for getting the pop to be concise and off a singular point. Also helps keep my shoulders in check a bit more.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 06:13:24 PM by Hombreezy »

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2021, 03:21:32 PM »
Came in to give another obscure trick tip that helped my friend learn tres and recently helped me get back switch tres.
After I feel my back foot curled around the edge and ready to pop hard, I think about my shoulders being locked in to place, then stare directly down right above the kneecap (It will look below the knee from your perspective-the exact point your rest your leg when youíre sitting in a chair and resting one leg on top of another) as Iím bending down. Staring at that point seems to be so crucial for getting the pop to be concise and off a singular point. Also helps keep my shoulders in check a bit more.

Yeah mean on your kickflip / front foot ?

I do that but look behind my knee cap if that makes sense
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Hombreezy

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2021, 03:34:28 PM »


Yeah mean on your kickflip / front foot ?

I do that but look behind my knee cap if that makes sense
[/quote]
Yea on treflips I look at that point but try and focus on it, so I donít throw my shoulders off place. It limits your range of motion. Almost like youre stuck in air and your feet are doing the motion below you but they can only move so far and wonít throw your shoulders off

larry leadfoot

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2021, 12:46:59 AM »
Came to give another obscure trick tip that helped my friend learn tres and recently helped me get back switch tres.
When bending down to pop I stare directly right above the kneecap on the flick foot (It will look below the knee from your perspective - itís also the point you rest your leg when youíre sitting down crossing your legs). Staring at that point seems to be so crucial for getting the pop to be concise and off a singular point. Also helps keep my shoulders in check a bit more.

Iíve been thinking about this lately to finally get switch ones down. I do this without even thinking about it on my regular ones but every time I try switch ones I am facing way too much to the side. Imitating a regular one is the best thing I can do for my switch ones, except Iíve never done that for other flip tricks when skating switch. Itís one reason why switch 360 flips have taken so long. Finally got a good one yesterday. Back foot toe curl and facing more forward are key.
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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2021, 03:25:30 PM »
I feel a very important thing for 3 flips that a lot of people don't think of is to square up your shoulders parallel with you board. Like make sure you don't have your chest facing forwards. Think of turning your front shoulder to line up with the nose of your board. it's a small but important tip.

For me it's a lot in the back foot. You gotta smack the tail hard and then the scoop a bit. With the shoulders square if that makes sense.

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2021, 06:23:45 AM »
I feel a very important thing for 3 flips that a lot of people don't think of is to square up your shoulders parallel with you board. Like make sure you don't have your chest facing forwards. Think of turning your front shoulder to line up with the nose of your board. it's a small but important tip.

For me it's a lot in the back foot. You gotta smack the tail hard and then the scoop a bit. With the shoulders square if that makes sense.

Making sure you're square is a huge one. If I'm ever struggling that's the first thing I correct. Keeping your shoulders straight makes landing significantly easier too since your feet aren't pointing forward.

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2021, 07:31:54 PM »
Had a bit of an epiphany with this one. I can sometimes do a decent one and sometimes my feet are super close together towards the middle or up near the front bolts. If you have the problem of landing like this, I figured out that having my head over my popping leg as I get ready to scoop helps a ton. It minimizes the tendency of my body landing front heavy on the board and also makes it easier for me to get that back leg to extend away from the front, ending up in a much more even weight distribution on landing.

TLDR: keep your head over the back leg as you pop.

Mr. Stinky

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2021, 09:33:42 AM »
Had a bit of an epiphany with this one. I can sometimes do a decent one and sometimes my feet are super close together towards the middle or up near the front bolts. If you have the problem of landing like this, I figured out that having my head over my popping leg as I get ready to scoop helps a ton. It minimizes the tendency of my body landing front heavy on the board and also makes it easier for me to get that back leg to extend away from the front, ending up in a much more even weight distribution on landing.

TLDR: keep your head over the back leg as you pop.

This also helped me; I think of it like I'm lining my eyes up with my back knee. Another suggestion that helped is to act almost like you're trying to kick your front ass cheek with your back foot while extending your front leg out towards the nose, like a Bruce Lee flying kick or something. That seems to help achieve a sufficient scoop and give you enough time above the board to catch it with a wider stance. As a side benefit, it promotes the classical technique and prevents wretched yo flip. 

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2021, 04:44:38 PM »
Is anyone else unable to do these in chuck Taylorís? I was by no means good at 360 flips before but when I was skating vans I was starting to get the hang of sort of grabbing the board with my toes and scooping it in front of me. Iíve been skating a pair of chucks for a while and can do some ugly ones every few tries but havenít been able to ever get a good feeling scoop on them.

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2021, 06:04:10 PM »
Is anyone else unable to do these in chuck Taylorís? I was by no means good at 360 flips before but when I was skating vans I was starting to get the hang of sort of grabbing the board with my toes and scooping it in front of me. Iíve been skating a pair of chucks for a while and can do some ugly ones every few tries but havenít been able to ever get a good feeling scoop on them.
I can't speak for Chucks but I have definitely had a harder time with consistency of them with certain shoes. I imagine because it's really not much of a flick, so maybe the rubber toe cap on them is grabbing to much? If that's the case maybe set your front foot farther back. I have to do this with shelltoes.
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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2021, 08:39:48 AM »
Expand Quote
Is anyone else unable to do these in chuck Taylorís? I was by no means good at 360 flips before but when I was skating vans I was starting to get the hang of sort of grabbing the board with my toes and scooping it in front of me. Iíve been skating a pair of chucks for a while and can do some ugly ones every few tries but havenít been able to ever get a good feeling scoop on them.
[close]
I can't speak for Chucks but I have definitely had a harder time with consistency of them with certain shoes. I imagine because it's really not much of a flick, so maybe the rubber toe cap on them is grabbing to much? If that's the case maybe set your front foot farther back. I have to do this with shelltoes.

You mean on your kickflip foot ?

If so yes I agree if it's too grippy there. At that area it can fuck up rotation. Happens with new shoes.
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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2021, 08:34:45 PM »
how much do you flick with the front foot? ive heard conflicting advice where one tip is to do nothing and its literally all the back foot (and the front foot just catches) but ive also heard that you actually need to work a little kickflip ankle action in there..

tzhangdox

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2021, 09:06:00 PM »
how much do you flick with the front foot? ive heard conflicting advice where one tip is to do nothing and its literally all the back foot (and the front foot just catches) but ive also heard that you actually need to work a little kickflip ankle action in there..

Depends on if your board is flipping the whole way or not when you try it.

Seventyfuhkinseven

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2021, 07:24:11 AM »
how much do you flick with the front foot? ive heard conflicting advice where one tip is to do nothing and its literally all the back foot (and the front foot just catches) but ive also heard that you actually need to work a little kickflip ankle action in there..
My front foot does flick a little..I had done one standing still in my house.. and put the video up in the "old dudes thread" a few weeks ago. I actually used it recently in slow motion to show a young fella what I do with my feet. Everyone does them differently and my way obviously may not be the best way for anyone else.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 07:45:19 AM by Fhk hu »
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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2021, 07:38:55 AM »
how much do you flick with the front foot? ive heard conflicting advice where one tip is to do nothing and its literally all the back foot (and the front foot just catches) but ive also heard that you actually need to work a little kickflip ankle action in there..

The front foot action sort of has to do with how optimal your technique on the pop is since it's basically imprinting motion to the board in relation to how exactly you popped it and from which position. Some people have those automatic quick 360 flips that go sideways and look mostly pressure-based because as soon as leverage gets put on the tail, the front foot is already getting in the way ready for the board to sort of start wrapping around the toe as it catches the concave and flips with very little ankle action. On the other hand, if you're trying to pop them and do higher and more vertical ones (say on hips) then you need to think of the trick as much more of an ollie with your front foot actively guiding the board upwards before letting go, and for that technique you sort of need to emphasize on that sweet spot in the tail you pop off (and get way more of an ollie type of downwards pop). Main difference with kickflips is you don't really extend your leg the same way, kickflips in general your body will be more parallel to the board and ideally kick out and straight through the nose, 360 flips you're facing forwards a bit more (at least I am) and have to compensate diagonally ever so slightly as though instead aiming for the heel-side top bolt, but it's quite subtle.

imuseless

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2021, 01:14:38 AM »
360 flips frustrate me so much because I've always been able to do them, but they're never really a "regular" trick that I have. Some times I'll randomly do one first or second try, then the next day it'll look like I've never done one in my life.

Same here, struggling with 360 flips for 15 years now lol. Placing the front foot ridiculous near to back truck bolts usually helps to land a one on a bad day.

MorningSesh

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2021, 10:39:45 AM »
Lately, I've been landing only with my back foot on the board when trying these, do yall think that's mainly an issue with my front shoulder opening up too much?

MorningSesh

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2021, 07:56:48 PM »
Ended up confirming it, managed to land a few today when making sure my front shoulder is more parallel with the board

listentoaheartbeat

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Re: 360 Flips
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2021, 08:17:26 AM »