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Who did/will you vote for?

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Author Topic: Biden vs Trump  (Read 20436 times)

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geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #690 on: November 22, 2020, 02:23:39 AM »
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You really don't understand it? Seriously?

Hillary Clinton ran on continuing the Obama legacy. (https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-obamas-campaign-228625).

That legacy was not appealing to enough voters to win.

So when I say that we got Trump because of Obama and Biden's policies, I mean that not enough people wanted to support a third Obama term for Hillary to be elected.
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Ok, so completely ignoring the fact that the Democrats had a huge divide between Biden and Hillary supporters- what made the Republicans go for Trump? Or, is the quote supposed to be "the election of a republican president in 2016 is the symptom of internal problems in the democratic party" and it's completely irrelevant that Trump was the R Candidate?

Or, let's just put it like this; why did roughly half the country vote for Trump for a 2nd term? Simply because he was the republican candidate or because they like his policies and work so far?

As an outsider, it's completely mindblowing to see how people suck the dick of their party. You could have a known child molester as your candidate and people would still cheer for them. The toxic problem in US politics is the 2-party system, which quite frankly is just a single party away from being a 100% autocracy. You like guns? Well you also want to ban abortions, hate immigrants and you hold the Christian religion above anything else. You want Government healthcare? Now you hate guns and want to stop the oil industry. Like what the fuck kinda choices are that?

There isn't a single "freedom" that I am envious of the US for. What a fucking shithole.

Your endless questions are growing tiresome, but I do agree with you that the two party system is toxic.

Deputy Wendell

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #691 on: November 22, 2020, 06:15:45 AM »
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This is a really interesting thread, being a Canadian. I'm genuinely curious what sort of life Deputy Wendell is living that has resulted in him needing guns to protect himself. The only thing I can think of is either living in a very dangerous ghetto (though many people live in that sort of situation and don't own guns) or being involved in criminal activity. The gun obsession in America is both scary and sad.
[close]

You probably know this but gun laws in the US are hugely different depending upon the state one lives in. I am not an expert and don’t follow gun laws, but I know that certain states have open or concealed carry. The only guns I have ever seen in NJ are hunting rifles during deer season. Some states you can buy guns at Walmart—you cannot in NJ.

I would never want to live in a state that allowed its citizens to walk into a public space packing heat. Some may claim that the ability to carry a weapon in public is a American freedom, but when I am in states that allows its citizens to openly carry I do not feel comfortable. And the idea concealed carry really bothers me. Wikipedia has a page on concealed carry in the US and it is even more complex than I thought.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States
[close]

I feel the same - and I love the US. If I could legally live in California I'd be there in a heartbeat. Now, Newark NJ, for example, is not somewhere I'd want to live. I've spent about 2 weeks there and I once saw a dude with a gun clearly visible in his waistband casually rip a chain off an old man's neck, start jogging away, and then slowed back down to a walk when he realized an old man is not going to chase some thug with a gun who just robbed him. Broad daylight on the main drag, right across the street from those dope granite ledges that go for a whole block. Yeesh.

I also want to make it clear I'm not trying to antagonize DeputyWendell - I really am curious what sort of circumstances he lives in that make him feel the way he does about needing guns.

you stated that twice now on the last page or so of this thread...should i tell you my life story? i'm 50 years old in April, where would you like me to start? i mention above that i'm an English professor in the humanities, so obviously as of late, things are ok...but should i make this thread about me?

the most darling thing that anyone has said in this entire thread is when you say above: "Of course I haven't had to defend anyone by brandishing a gun. I don't live in some trap house in a US ghetto." you reveal so much about yourself and your life there.

do you have any idea what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding poor/working people who just want to work and live with a little dignity, and raise children with decent schools, feel safe, etc.?

what i will say is, although i'm temporarily in one of its inner-ring suburbs, i have lived in the city of Detroit for over thirty years, and i have seen and experienced what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding people, and it's one of many reasons that some of my experiences in life let me know for sure that i should at least aspire to be comparably armed as the desperate human beings running that one "trap house in a US ghetto"...

Glurmpz

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #692 on: November 22, 2020, 09:53:59 AM »
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This is a really interesting thread, being a Canadian. I'm genuinely curious what sort of life Deputy Wendell is living that has resulted in him needing guns to protect himself. The only thing I can think of is either living in a very dangerous ghetto (though many people live in that sort of situation and don't own guns) or being involved in criminal activity. The gun obsession in America is both scary and sad.
[close]

You probably know this but gun laws in the US are hugely different depending upon the state one lives in. I am not an expert and don’t follow gun laws, but I know that certain states have open or concealed carry. The only guns I have ever seen in NJ are hunting rifles during deer season. Some states you can buy guns at Walmart—you cannot in NJ.

I would never want to live in a state that allowed its citizens to walk into a public space packing heat. Some may claim that the ability to carry a weapon in public is a American freedom, but when I am in states that allows its citizens to openly carry I do not feel comfortable. And the idea concealed carry really bothers me. Wikipedia has a page on concealed carry in the US and it is even more complex than I thought.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States
[close]

I feel the same - and I love the US. If I could legally live in California I'd be there in a heartbeat. Now, Newark NJ, for example, is not somewhere I'd want to live. I've spent about 2 weeks there and I once saw a dude with a gun clearly visible in his waistband casually rip a chain off an old man's neck, start jogging away, and then slowed back down to a walk when he realized an old man is not going to chase some thug with a gun who just robbed him. Broad daylight on the main drag, right across the street from those dope granite ledges that go for a whole block. Yeesh.

I also want to make it clear I'm not trying to antagonize DeputyWendell - I really am curious what sort of circumstances he lives in that make him feel the way he does about needing guns.
[close]

you stated that twice now on the last page or so of this thread...should i tell you my life story? i'm 50 years old in April, where would you like me to start? i mention above that i'm an English professor in the humanities, so obviously as of late, things are ok...but should i make this thread about me?

the most darling thing that anyone has said in this entire thread is when you say above: "Of course I haven't had to defend anyone by brandishing a gun. I don't live in some trap house in a US ghetto." you reveal so much about yourself and your life there.

do you have any idea what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding poor/working people who just want to work and live with a little dignity, and raise children with decent schools, feel safe, etc.?

what i will say is, although i'm temporarily in one of its inner-ring suburbs, i have lived in the city of Detroit for over thirty years, and i have seen and experienced what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding people, and it's one of many reasons that some of my experiences in life let me know for sure that i should at least aspire to be comparably armed as the desperate human beings running that one "trap house in a US ghetto"...

Thanks for the explanation - so the answer was that you did live in a sketchy neighborhood, in Detroit. I assume you must have been robbed while living there, which made you want to have a gun, which seems reasonable. Comparing your experience in one of the most dangerous cities in the country to the lives of all low income people everywhere is kind of silly though. I'm poor, and as I mentioned, where I lived in Oceanside CA was right next to a ghetto that I'm sure had multiple trap houses. In that area I felt perfectly safe, so it's not reflective of your claims that poor people in poor neighborhoods want/need guns for protection.

I've talked to countless americans about the gun obsession - particularly on one road trip in the early 2000's where we asked everyone we met if they owned a gun, and why. The people who owned guns almost unanimously claimed paranoia about being robbed by their neighbors as the reason for the guns. As Canadians we found this very interesting and sad at the same time, that americans hate/distrust each other so much to the point that they've convinced themselves that their own neighbors/government might come to rob/kill them. We really are very lucky to live in such a peaceful country, in comparison.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 09:33:36 AM by Glurmpz »

geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #693 on: November 22, 2020, 10:36:49 AM »
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This is a really interesting thread, being a Canadian. I'm genuinely curious what sort of life Deputy Wendell is living that has resulted in him needing guns to protect himself. The only thing I can think of is either living in a very dangerous ghetto (though many people live in that sort of situation and don't own guns) or being involved in criminal activity. The gun obsession in America is both scary and sad.
[close]

You probably know this but gun laws in the US are hugely different depending upon the state one lives in. I am not an expert and don’t follow gun laws, but I know that certain states have open or concealed carry. The only guns I have ever seen in NJ are hunting rifles during deer season. Some states you can buy guns at Walmart—you cannot in NJ.

I would never want to live in a state that allowed its citizens to walk into a public space packing heat. Some may claim that the ability to carry a weapon in public is a American freedom, but when I am in states that allows its citizens to openly carry I do not feel comfortable. And the idea concealed carry really bothers me. Wikipedia has a page on concealed carry in the US and it is even more complex than I thought.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States
[close]

I feel the same - and I love the US. If I could legally live in California I'd be there in a heartbeat. Now, Newark NJ, for example, is not somewhere I'd want to live. I've spent about 2 weeks there and I once saw a dude with a gun clearly visible in his waistband casually rip a chain off an old man's neck, start jogging away, and then slowed back down to a walk when he realized an old man is not going to chase some thug with a gun who just robbed him. Broad daylight on the main drag, right across the street from those dope granite ledges that go for a whole block. Yeesh.

I also want to make it clear I'm not trying to antagonize DeputyWendell - I really am curious what sort of circumstances he lives in that make him feel the way he does about needing guns.
[close]

you stated that twice now on the last page or so of this thread...should i tell you my life story? i'm 50 years old in April, where would you like me to start? i mention above that i'm an English professor in the humanities, so obviously as of late, things are ok...but should i make this thread about me?

the most darling thing that anyone has said in this entire thread is when you say above: "Of course I haven't had to defend anyone by brandishing a gun. I don't live in some trap house in a US ghetto." you reveal so much about yourself and your life there.

do you have any idea what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding poor/working people who just want to work and live with a little dignity, and raise children with decent schools, feel safe, etc.?

what i will say is, although i'm temporarily in one of its inner-ring suburbs, i have lived in the city of Detroit for over thirty years, and i have seen and experienced what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding people, and it's one of many reasons that some of my experiences in life let me know for sure that i should at least aspire to be comparably armed as the desperate human beings running that one "trap house in a US ghetto"...
[close]

Thanks for the explanation - so the answer was that you did live in a sketchy neighborhood, in Detroit. I assume you must have been robbed while living there, which made you want to have a gun, which seems reasonable. Comparing your experience in one of the most dangerous cities in the country to the lives of all low income people everywhere is kind of silly though. I'm poor, and as I mentioned, where I lived in Oceanside CA was right next to a ghetto that I'm sure had multiple trap houses. In that area I felt perfectly safe, so it's not reflective of your claims that poor people in poor neighborhoods want/need guns for protection.

I've talked to countless americans about the gun obsession - particularly on one road trip in the early 2000's where we asked everyone we met if they owned a gun, and why. The people who owned guns almost unanimously claimed paranoia about being robbed by their neighbors as the reason for the guns. As Canadians we found this very interesting and sad at the same time, that americans hate/distrust each other so much to the pint that they've convinced themselves that their own neighbors/government might come to rob/kill them. We really are very lucky to live in such a peaceful country, in comparison.

As you guys say, I really am genuinely curious if you're aware that everything you just posted falls under the anecdotal evidence logical fallacy and is actually kind of silly?

Billy Bitchcakes

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #694 on: November 22, 2020, 11:04:42 AM »
This is a really interesting thread, being a Canadian. I'm genuinely curious what sort of life Deputy Wendell is living that has resulted in him needing guns to protect himself. The only thing I can think of is either living in a very dangerous ghetto (though many people live in that sort of situation and don't own guns) or being involved in criminal activity. The gun obsession in America is both scary and sad.

The weirdest part for me is that not only does he feel he needs a gun, but that the type of guns he's legally allowed to own still aren't enough to feel like he can defend himself? Certainly makes it seem like the motives aren't quite genuine, but like you I'm not from the US so the whole concept is nuts. The idea of open carry laws is fucking insane. Dude's who are so passionate about upholding those rights may as well have a tshirt with "I have a tiny cock" written on it.


Now, Newark NJ, for example, is not somewhere I'd want to live. I've spent about 2 weeks there and I once saw a dude with a gun clearly visible in his waistband casually rip a chain off an old man's neck, start jogging away, and then slowed back down to a walk when he realized an old man is not going to chase some thug with a gun who just robbed him. Broad daylight on the main drag, right across the street from those dope granite ledges that go for a whole block. Yeesh.

If only the old man had a gun on him, he could've defended himself and I'm sure there's no chance anybody could've got hurt!
Stop hating and actually learn something about textile production. You dont know shit about that.

Glurmpz

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #695 on: November 22, 2020, 11:12:54 AM »
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This is a really interesting thread, being a Canadian. I'm genuinely curious what sort of life Deputy Wendell is living that has resulted in him needing guns to protect himself. The only thing I can think of is either living in a very dangerous ghetto (though many people live in that sort of situation and don't own guns) or being involved in criminal activity. The gun obsession in America is both scary and sad.
[close]

You probably know this but gun laws in the US are hugely different depending upon the state one lives in. I am not an expert and don’t follow gun laws, but I know that certain states have open or concealed carry. The only guns I have ever seen in NJ are hunting rifles during deer season. Some states you can buy guns at Walmart—you cannot in NJ.

I would never want to live in a state that allowed its citizens to walk into a public space packing heat. Some may claim that the ability to carry a weapon in public is a American freedom, but when I am in states that allows its citizens to openly carry I do not feel comfortable. And the idea concealed carry really bothers me. Wikipedia has a page on concealed carry in the US and it is even more complex than I thought.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States
[close]

I feel the same - and I love the US. If I could legally live in California I'd be there in a heartbeat. Now, Newark NJ, for example, is not somewhere I'd want to live. I've spent about 2 weeks there and I once saw a dude with a gun clearly visible in his waistband casually rip a chain off an old man's neck, start jogging away, and then slowed back down to a walk when he realized an old man is not going to chase some thug with a gun who just robbed him. Broad daylight on the main drag, right across the street from those dope granite ledges that go for a whole block. Yeesh.

I also want to make it clear I'm not trying to antagonize DeputyWendell - I really am curious what sort of circumstances he lives in that make him feel the way he does about needing guns.
[close]

you stated that twice now on the last page or so of this thread...should i tell you my life story? i'm 50 years old in April, where would you like me to start? i mention above that i'm an English professor in the humanities, so obviously as of late, things are ok...but should i make this thread about me?

the most darling thing that anyone has said in this entire thread is when you say above: "Of course I haven't had to defend anyone by brandishing a gun. I don't live in some trap house in a US ghetto." you reveal so much about yourself and your life there.

do you have any idea what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding poor/working people who just want to work and live with a little dignity, and raise children with decent schools, feel safe, etc.?

what i will say is, although i'm temporarily in one of its inner-ring suburbs, i have lived in the city of Detroit for over thirty years, and i have seen and experienced what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding people, and it's one of many reasons that some of my experiences in life let me know for sure that i should at least aspire to be comparably armed as the desperate human beings running that one "trap house in a US ghetto"...
[close]

Thanks for the explanation - so the answer was that you did live in a sketchy neighborhood, in Detroit. I assume you must have been robbed while living there, which made you want to have a gun, which seems reasonable. Comparing your experience in one of the most dangerous cities in the country to the lives of all low income people everywhere is kind of silly though. I'm poor, and as I mentioned, where I lived in Oceanside CA was right next to a ghetto that I'm sure had multiple trap houses. In that area I felt perfectly safe, so it's not reflective of your claims that poor people in poor neighborhoods want/need guns for protection.

I've talked to countless americans about the gun obsession - particularly on one road trip in the early 2000's where we asked everyone we met if they owned a gun, and why. The people who owned guns almost unanimously claimed paranoia about being robbed by their neighbors as the reason for the guns. As Canadians we found this very interesting and sad at the same time, that americans hate/distrust each other so much to the pint that they've convinced themselves that their own neighbors/government might come to rob/kill them. We really are very lucky to live in such a peaceful country, in comparison.
[close]

As you guys say, I really am genuinely curious if you're aware that everything you just posted falls under the anecdotal evidence logical fallacy and is actually kind of silly?

I’m not quite sure I follow you - when he explained his personal situation I said I could see why he might feel the way he does. And yes, my experience is anecdotal - I offered it as an example of someone who apparently lived somewhere “dangerous “ but did not feel the need to own a gun for protection. What am I missing here?

brycickle

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #696 on: November 22, 2020, 12:40:17 PM »
You could have a known child molester as your candidate and people would still cheer for them.
You mean like Donald Trump?



by the way, the vast majority of gun deaths are by handgun--if i remember right, like only 2% occur by "assault weapon"
And the vast majority of those are suicides.

 You and the D00D have turned this thread into a horrible head-on-collision between a short bus full of retarded kids and a van full of paraplegics.



IusedToSkateMore

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #697 on: November 22, 2020, 03:43:20 PM »
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So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
[close]

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)

well said. the dude is trolling hard.

Enrico Pallazzo

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #698 on: November 22, 2020, 06:36:43 PM »
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So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
[close]

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)
[close]

well said. the dude is trolling hard.

I don't know that Gene is necessarily trolling or making his arguments in bad faith - many of the points on the past mistakes made by democrats and "liberal" politicians are valid.

But the important question that gets raised by his arguments is - is the democratic party salvageable or even worth saving due to its shortcomings? We can all agree that there have been some major missteps, both in the past and the present (I range from "not wild" to "incredibly disappointed" about many of Biden's tentative cabinet picks).

While trying not to speak entirely for Gene, it appears that his opinion is along the lines of that the failure of the democratic party to live up to its promises has been consistent and repeated often enough that at this point the party is broken beyond repair.

What I'm hearing from others in this thread is that despite its flaws, there is still hope and faith in the democrats to protect and enrich the lives of their constituency, at least in a way that republican lawmakers will be unable, or unwilling, to do.

I think these are both valid viewpoints, and as shown by Deputy Wendell's posts - individual lived experiences drive different "wedge" issues and generate varying amounts of faith in the two parties and their stances on various domestic policies.
 
The largest opportunity for the democrats to succeed is by listening to, and campaigning based on, the varying views within the party, or the "left" as a whole. Democrats ate shit this election is a way that can't simply be described as "Trump voters racist". A push for centrist platforms across the board obviously failed, and that's not to say centrism doesn't have a place in the party - what went wrong is that almost all candidates said "here's what you're going to get, and you'll vote for us because (D)". Trump's campaign team used a boots on the ground approach that made voters feel appreciated and listened to rather than disenfranchised, which is part of the reason why he increased his support with various minority groups that democrats have long taken as a given vote. I'm a huge advocate of strong progressive policies where there is an opportunity to implement them - successful implementation will drive a desire in other regions. There shouldn't be any fear of being called a socialist, the republican candidate will call you that anyways and if you're able to articulate how your policy will improve the lives of all of your constituents, you may generate support in a manner that wasn't really seen this cycle.

The point of this longwinded post is to say - these debates among left leaning people are just as important or more than cross-party debates, and it's important to acknowledge the shortcomings within one's own party in order to improve it - or blow it up and start again.

Deputy Wendell

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #699 on: November 23, 2020, 05:34:34 AM »
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This is a really interesting thread, being a Canadian. I'm genuinely curious what sort of life Deputy Wendell is living that has resulted in him needing guns to protect himself. The only thing I can think of is either living in a very dangerous ghetto (though many people live in that sort of situation and don't own guns) or being involved in criminal activity. The gun obsession in America is both scary and sad.
[close]

You probably know this but gun laws in the US are hugely different depending upon the state one lives in. I am not an expert and don’t follow gun laws, but I know that certain states have open or concealed carry. The only guns I have ever seen in NJ are hunting rifles during deer season. Some states you can buy guns at Walmart—you cannot in NJ.

I would never want to live in a state that allowed its citizens to walk into a public space packing heat. Some may claim that the ability to carry a weapon in public is a American freedom, but when I am in states that allows its citizens to openly carry I do not feel comfortable. And the idea concealed carry really bothers me. Wikipedia has a page on concealed carry in the US and it is even more complex than I thought.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States
[close]

I feel the same - and I love the US. If I could legally live in California I'd be there in a heartbeat. Now, Newark NJ, for example, is not somewhere I'd want to live. I've spent about 2 weeks there and I once saw a dude with a gun clearly visible in his waistband casually rip a chain off an old man's neck, start jogging away, and then slowed back down to a walk when he realized an old man is not going to chase some thug with a gun who just robbed him. Broad daylight on the main drag, right across the street from those dope granite ledges that go for a whole block. Yeesh.

I also want to make it clear I'm not trying to antagonize DeputyWendell - I really am curious what sort of circumstances he lives in that make him feel the way he does about needing guns.
[close]

you stated that twice now on the last page or so of this thread...should i tell you my life story? i'm 50 years old in April, where would you like me to start? i mention above that i'm an English professor in the humanities, so obviously as of late, things are ok...but should i make this thread about me?

the most darling thing that anyone has said in this entire thread is when you say above: "Of course I haven't had to defend anyone by brandishing a gun. I don't live in some trap house in a US ghetto." you reveal so much about yourself and your life there.

do you have any idea what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding poor/working people who just want to work and live with a little dignity, and raise children with decent schools, feel safe, etc.?

what i will say is, although i'm temporarily in one of its inner-ring suburbs, i have lived in the city of Detroit for over thirty years, and i have seen and experienced what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding people, and it's one of many reasons that some of my experiences in life let me know for sure that i should at least aspire to be comparably armed as the desperate human beings running that one "trap house in a US ghetto"...
[close]

Thanks for the explanation - so the answer was that you did live in a sketchy neighborhood, in Detroit. I assume you must have been robbed while living there, which made you want to have a gun, which seems reasonable. Comparing your experience in one of the most dangerous cities in the country to the lives of all low income people everywhere is kind of silly though. I'm poor, and as I mentioned, where I lived in Oceanside CA was right next to a ghetto that I'm sure had multiple trap houses. In that area I felt perfectly safe, so it's not reflective of your claims that poor people in poor neighborhoods want/need guns for protection.

I've talked to countless americans about the gun obsession - particularly on one road trip in the early 2000's where we asked everyone we met if they owned a gun, and why. The people who owned guns almost unanimously claimed paranoia about being robbed by their neighbors as the reason for the guns. As Canadians we found this very interesting and sad at the same time, that americans hate/distrust each other so much to the pint that they've convinced themselves that their own neighbors/government might come to rob/kill them. We really are very lucky to live in such a peaceful country, in comparison.

i've never once felt compelled to address another person here in Slap like this, but you are the worst commenter in these forums--fuck you and fuck your dipshit assumptions about my life and experiences--you're wrong about everything you assume in the above post.

your comments just radiate a perspective of someone who hasn't been through shit (there's no way you're past your early 20s), yet can not see beyond the narrow horizons of his own limited experience in life.

and who is comparing his experiences to "low income people everywhere"? you're the only one whose posts are plagued by personal anecdotes.

and why in the fuck do you keep bringing up "trap houses"? how fucking random and in a way irrelevant to a discussion about legally owning guns and having a CPL, since "trap houses" will always be filled with guns that were derived illegally. is living in and/or near one, your one and only criterion for what justifies being armed?

here, let me assume something about you now--stop listening to bad American rap you fatuous Canuck, because it's clearly distorting your perspective of this country, which is vast, complex, and varies widely from city to city, state to state, and region to region.

since it's fresh in the news, just one of many examples of how often people need to defend themselves in the suburbs and not just in "trap houses in US ghettos"--a woman here in Michigan (Tina Talbot) was just recently released from prison (i signed the petition for her release) after shooting and killing her husband, who had been brutalizing her and her young son. "Both of her lungs were partially collapsed, her spleen was ruptured, her ribs and an arm were broken" (from the Detroit Free Press article) when she finally had to shoot him to save her and her son's life. this all happened in the suburbs, and the semi-automatic handgun she used takes anywhere from 10 to 33-round magazines, just like the AKs in my gun safe (30-round magazines are standard capacity magazines for the AK platform), just for one example of how ignorant and arbitrary proposed gun regulations are, when they come from pandering politicians who know nothing about the infinite variety of gun calibers, platforms, and configurations they're trying to regulate.

U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez in CA has been fighting California's absurd gun laws, focusing specifically on restrictions on magazine capacity. in the successful ruling temporarily lifting the ban on "high capacity" magazines back in April (it's still being disputed), Judge Benitez discussed three different home invasions that had occurred, and some were of course in suburban communities. "Judge Benitez described three home invasions, two of which ended with the female victims running out of bullets...In the third case, the pajama-clad woman with a 'high-capacity' magazine took on three armed intruders, firing at them while simultaneously calling for help on her phone...'She had no place to carry an extra magazine and no way to reload because her left hand held the phone with which she was still trying to call 911',  the judge wrote, saying she killed one attacker while two escaped."

JANUS

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #700 on: November 23, 2020, 06:04:33 AM »
Canuck?!

CANUCK!?!?!?

That’s our word! Fuck you, buddy!
If you can't handle me at my Marc Johnson, you don't deserve me at my Bobby Puleo.

exlurker

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #701 on: November 23, 2020, 07:21:05 AM »
While y'all trade fun stories, here's some data:

Violent break-ins are rare and have become steadily less common in the USA over the past 20 years: https://ovc.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh226/files/ncvrw2018/info_flyers/fact_sheets/2018NCVRW_Burglary_508_QC.pdf

Even more rare is the rate of people successfully defending themselves against a violent break-in with a weapon of own. No matter how often you see this situation on TV or in the newspaper.

However, gun ownership reliably and dramatically compounds the risk of a family member being shot, and increases risk of suicide eight times over
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html

You're better off without one, objectively. You might feel safer, but overwhelmingly you're not.


Level 60 Dwarf Rogue

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #702 on: November 23, 2020, 08:05:25 AM »
Stop being a scared bitch Wendell.

Glurmpz

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #703 on: November 23, 2020, 08:55:22 AM »


Sheesh - what an insane response to my post in which I said I could understand why he may feel the need to own a gun. 

But also - my new approach on here when it comes to disrespectful posters who resort to insults and attacks when someone doesn't 100% agree with everything they say is to just put them on ignore. I don't have time for adults who act like teenagers.

Glad to see other posters realize the incredible flaws in his logic. What a nut.

Blueabyssofthisss

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #704 on: November 23, 2020, 09:00:29 AM »

Deputy Wendell

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #705 on: November 23, 2020, 09:04:19 AM »
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Stop being a scared bitch Wendell.
[close]

the only people i am scared of are all of the tough guys in here--kisses to every one of you, especially Glurmpz

Dirty_Dan90

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #706 on: November 23, 2020, 09:31:06 AM »
Trump pushes mongo
Biden scrapes mannys and calls it good



geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #707 on: November 23, 2020, 10:42:51 AM »
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So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
[close]

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)
[close]

well said. the dude is trolling hard.
[close]

The point of this longwinded post is to say - these debates among left leaning people are just as important or more than cross-party debates, and it's important to acknowledge the shortcomings within one's own party in order to improve it - or blow it up and start again.

So far no one wants to acknowledge any of these “shortcomings,” and instead has resorted to writing a mountain of bs imaginings about why I posted what I posted and then arguing against their own assumptions. Or they’ve asked a million patronizing, pedantic questions.

I’ll repeat this again.

There is proof that Obama’s cabinet was chosen by the CitiGroup corporation.

There is proof that Obama committed war crimes and killed innocent women and children.

There is proof that Obama’s administration is the one who built the cages that imprisoned immigrant children.

To act like the appeal of Trump is simply “white supremacy” is incredibly ignorant and short sighted.

As you mentioned in your post, Biden’s cabinet picks are disgusting and show his corporatist, Wall Street backed priorities.

But based on the previous Obama and Biden administration, should we really be surprised?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 10:56:24 AM by geneparmesan »

Enrico Pallazzo

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #708 on: November 23, 2020, 11:07:08 AM »
Expand Quote
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So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
[close]

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)
[close]

well said. the dude is trolling hard.
[close]

The point of this longwinded post is to say - these debates among left leaning people are just as important or more than cross-party debates, and it's important to acknowledge the shortcomings within one's own party in order to improve it - or blow it up and start again.
[close]

So far no one wants to acknowledge any of these “shortcomings,” and instead has resorted to writing a mountain of bs imaginings about why I posted what I posted and then arguing against their own assumptions. Or they’ve asked a million patronizing, pedantic questions.

I’ll repeat this again.

There is proof that Obama’s whole cabinet was chosen by the CitiGroup corporation.

There is proof that Obama committed war crimes and killed innocent women and children.

There is proof that Obam’s administration is the one who built the cages that imprisoned immigrant children.

To act like the appeal of Trump is simply “white supremacy” is incredibly ignorant and short sighted.

As you mentioned in your post, Biden’s cabinet picks are disgusting and show his corporatist, Wall Street backed priorities.

But based on the previous Obama and Biden administration, should we really be surprised?

I’m in agreement with you on all of these items, but my question is - what next?

I’m not asking this rhetorically or to sound like I’m holier than thou, but are you completely checked out on American politics because of these failures of the system and the seemingly inescapable corporate influence on politicians? If so, that’s fine and completely understandable, but I guess my follow up question is - why participate in this thread? Is it just to show you know more about the evils of politicians?

There’s an abundance of absolute scumbags on both sides of party lines, no doubt. I’m a multiple time Bernie and progressive donor and strong dem-socialist supporter. I’ve been disappointed multiple times by the actions of the DNC. However, as it stands this is the system we have and I’m not going to sit on the sidelines and pout until someone else fixes it or makes it better for me.


I do have hope for a push left in the party as a result of a change in messaging and campaigning strategies, or of a third party coming into play - a revamped Green Party or People’s Party. Some great progressive policies got passed this election cycle, and some progressive candidates like Nithya Raman in Los Angeles. But this only happens with enthusiastic participation and engagement with members of the public and your peers. Complaining of a broken system while not working towards a better one is just as useless as plugging your ears and pretending nothing is wrong in the current one.

IusedToSkateMore

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #709 on: November 23, 2020, 11:32:45 AM »
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So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
[close]

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)
[close]

well said. the dude is trolling hard.
[close]

The point of this longwinded post is to say - these debates among left leaning people are just as important or more than cross-party debates, and it's important to acknowledge the shortcomings within one's own party in order to improve it - or blow it up and start again.
[close]

So far no one wants to acknowledge any of these “shortcomings,” and instead has resorted to writing a mountain of bs imaginings about why I posted what I posted and then arguing against their own assumptions. Or they’ve asked a million patronizing, pedantic questions.

I’ll repeat this again.

There is proof that Obama’s cabinet was chosen by the CitiGroup corporation.

There is proof that Obama committed war crimes and killed innocent women and children.

There is proof that Obama’s administration is the one who built the cages that imprisoned immigrant children.

To act like the appeal of Trump is simply “white supremacy” is incredibly ignorant and short sighted.

As you mentioned in your post, Biden’s cabinet picks are disgusting and show his corporatist, Wall Street backed priorities.

But based on the previous Obama and Biden administration, should we really be surprised?

Of course, they're all outright corporatist shills. Both parties are merely wings of one big Corporate party, there's no getting around it. At this point in time, however, what's the point of focusing on the war crimes committed by the Obama administration other than downplaying the destruction enacted by the Trump administration? I haven't seen anyone here say "Joe Biden is a good guy," maybe I've missed it. The Trump administration has been awful, if in no other way than the constant onslaught of bullying language and behavior, for the "average" American. If you believe otherwise, provide examples proving otherwise.

geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #710 on: November 23, 2020, 12:08:00 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
[close]

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)
[close]

well said. the dude is trolling hard.
[close]

The point of this longwinded post is to say - these debates among left leaning people are just as important or more than cross-party debates, and it's important to acknowledge the shortcomings within one's own party in order to improve it - or blow it up and start again.
[close]

So far no one wants to acknowledge any of these “shortcomings,” and instead has resorted to writing a mountain of bs imaginings about why I posted what I posted and then arguing against their own assumptions. Or they’ve asked a million patronizing, pedantic questions.

I’ll repeat this again.

There is proof that Obama’s whole cabinet was chosen by the CitiGroup corporation.

There is proof that Obama committed war crimes and killed innocent women and children.

There is proof that Obam’s administration is the one who built the cages that imprisoned immigrant children.

To act like the appeal of Trump is simply “white supremacy” is incredibly ignorant and short sighted.

As you mentioned in your post, Biden’s cabinet picks are disgusting and show his corporatist, Wall Street backed priorities.

But based on the previous Obama and Biden administration, should we really be surprised?
[close]

I’m in agreement with you on all of these items, but my question is - what next?

I’m not asking this rhetorically or to sound like I’m holier than thou, but are you completely checked out on American politics because of these failures of the system and the seemingly inescapable corporate influence on politicians? If so, that’s fine and completely understandable, but I guess my follow up question is - why participate in this thread? Is it just to show you know more about the evils of politicians?

There’s an abundance of absolute scumbags on both sides of party lines, no doubt. I’m a multiple time Bernie and progressive donor and strong dem-socialist supporter. I’ve been disappointed multiple times by the actions of the DNC. However, as it stands this is the system we have and I’m not going to sit on the sidelines and pout until someone else fixes it or makes it better for me.


I do have hope for a push left in the party as a result of a change in messaging and campaigning strategies, or of a third party coming into play - a revamped Green Party or People’s Party. Some great progressive policies got passed this election cycle, and some progressive candidates like Nithya Raman in Los Angeles. But this only happens with enthusiastic participation and engagement with members of the public and your peers. Complaining of a broken system while not working towards a better one is just as useless as plugging your ears and pretending nothing is wrong in the current one.

What next is we need to wake up from the ideological divisions that have been sowed by the media and join together to get our priorities straight in order to make politicians give us things in order to get our vote.

Ranked choice voting on the national level would go a long ways to getting this started.

We need people participating in their city council meetings and being aware of what the government is doing locally as well as nationally. Politicians are supposed to be representatives of the people and work for us.

Say what you will about the virus, but I'm fucking shocked by the amount of people who are willing to give over the care of their health and their personal sovereignty to a government that has a long history of lying, cheating, and poisoning us.

The fact that the first stimulus bill was passed by a voice vote says everything. These people didn't want to be linked to their vote. AOC was able to both "vote" for the bill and then criticize it later.

And let's look at who most of the money in that bill went to. It's fucking corporations again!

Overturning Citizens United would also be a great step in the right direction.

I'll be honest with you and say that I think there is a consciousness awakening happening right now, and once we reach a certain point there won't be a need for political parties any longer.

geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #711 on: November 23, 2020, 12:27:19 PM »
Of course, they're all outright corporatist shills. Both parties are merely wings of one big Corporate party, there's no getting around it. At this point in time, however, what's the point of focusing on the war crimes committed by the Obama administration other than downplaying the destruction enacted by the Trump administration? I haven't seen anyone here say "Joe Biden is a good guy," maybe I've missed it. The Trump administration has been awful, if in no other way than the constant onslaught of bullying language and behavior, for the "average" American. If you believe otherwise, provide examples proving otherwise.

You provide no evidence and then ask me to provide evidence?

Even going along with your assertion, I'll take bullying language all day long if it means no new wars.

Frank

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #712 on: November 23, 2020, 12:40:10 PM »

TheLurper

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #713 on: November 23, 2020, 12:46:21 PM »
The two parties were much closer to one another in the 90s than they are today. The right has gone off the rails. These false equivalencies aren't convincing to anyone outside of those who already back Trump.

Under the Obama admin we saw the creation of the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau. An agency that was neutered under Trump who wanted zero protection for workers or consumers.

Under Obama we saw an increase in legislation meant at protecting the environment and the US taking the baby step of joining the Paris Agreement. Trump undid much of the environmental rules, opened up mining on protected federal lands, shrunk the size of national parks, and tried to leave the Paris Agreement AND is currently fucking up the arctic open for the benefit of the oil companies. (The baby step of joining the toothless Paris Agreement sent Trump and the GOP into convulsions.)

Under the Obama admin we saw DACA implemented to protect immigrants who came here at a very young age and we saw the increase of policing of immigration (seems kind of like a compromise with the right). Trump tried to undo DACA immediately, blocked people with visas from coming to America because they were Muslim (protecting the freedom of religion part of the Constitution there huh?)... and Sessions and Trump thought it'd be good immigration policy to separate children from their families (some of those children still haven't been reunited with their parents).
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/family-separation-border-immigration-jeff-sessions-rod-rosenstein.html

Obama's cabinet is full of the educated and experienced centrists that one would expect to find in a government that is trying to "reach across the aisle." Trump's cabinet was full of people who didn't even know what their agency did and were completely incompetent or far right idealogues (DeVos, Perry, etc.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama%27s_Cabinet

Dick Cheney and Bush figured out ways to "legally" torture people. Obama didn't torture people, although he ordered drone strikes in a way that was wrong. Trump campaigned on making the US a torture state again; he pardoned someone who engaged in war crimes; and couldn't stop jacking off thinking about dropping the biggest non-nuclear bomb.

Trump wrote love letters to Kim Jong-un. He backed out of the Iran deal and gave the far right more power in Iran (as the moderates were the ones willing to attempt to negotiate with the West... he only made things harder for normal people in Iran and decreased the security of the world).

Obama was there immediately to help all red and blue states after Katrina. Trump told California no federal emergency funding for the wild fires and asked if he could nuke a fucking hurricane. And, left PR to die and tried to give 300 million to his friend via a corrupt deal (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/29/puerto-rico-governor-whitefish-power-contract-cancelled).

Obama was front and center when the ebola scare occurred and he declared H1N1 a national emergency in oct of 2009... throughout the Covid crisis Trump has either said, "Maybe we can inject bleach into people" or went to the golf course, he shadow team (Kushner's frat boy idiots) said, "Fuck it. It is a blue state problem. Let's do nothing" and his official team (Pence) has had people get COVID (not to mention the WH is on its 3rd wave of the COVID... and the fucking president got it and over 100 secret service officers). The fucker didn't even bother going to the recent G20 meeting about covid, but went and played some more golf.

Obama obviously not stoked about Trump winning invited him to the White House, opened up the funding Trump needed to start his transition, and told the country, "We need this guy to do well because he is running the ship that we're all on" Trump won't concede, attempted to steal the election via the courts and is now trying to subvert the will of the people through fucking with the electoral college process and creating doubt on the integrity of US elections (which have structural problems that are meant to keep people of color from voting... not Trump's white base).

“We are determined to take our country back,” Duke said from the rally, calling it a “turning point.” “We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”


Fuck this both parties are equal bullshit. One is a bit softer on issues than I would like them to be, but the other purposefully makes the world a worse place for the interests of the very few.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 01:00:00 PM by TheLurper »

Quote from: ChuckRamone
I love when people bring up world hunger. It makes everything meaningless.
"that guy is double parked."
"Who cares? there are people starving to death! besides, how does that affect you? does it lessen the joy of parking?

exlurker

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #714 on: November 23, 2020, 01:25:43 PM »
To act like the appeal of Trump is simply “white supremacy” is incredibly ignorant and short sighted.

it's equally "incredibly ignorant and short sighted" to act like white supremacy wasn't a big factor. He absolutely does not become President without being proudly, loudly racist. It makes me nuts that people seem to forget how all this started.

When Trump jumped into the Republican primary, his only known contribution to politics in the US was the Birtherism conspiracy, which, you guessed it, was extremely racist, and also an early preview of his ability to swear up and down to have hard proof of something and feel no shame about never producing it

Then, as soon as he entered the primary, he called Mexicans rapists in his very first speech, and then went on to run on The Wall® and banning Muslims from entering the country. Otherwise his policy ideas were no different than any other Republican. His GOP primary strategy was explicitly trying to stoke white grievance. This isn't a secret - Steve Bannon has spoken pretty openly about this.

IusedToSkateMore

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #715 on: November 23, 2020, 03:50:23 PM »
Expand Quote
Of course, they're all outright corporatist shills. Both parties are merely wings of one big Corporate party, there's no getting around it. At this point in time, however, what's the point of focusing on the war crimes committed by the Obama administration other than downplaying the destruction enacted by the Trump administration? I haven't seen anyone here say "Joe Biden is a good guy," maybe I've missed it. The Trump administration has been awful, if in no other way than the constant onslaught of bullying language and behavior, for the "average" American. If you believe otherwise, provide examples proving otherwise.
[close]

You provide no evidence and then ask me to provide evidence?

Even going along with your assertion, I'll take bullying language all day long if it means no new wars.

Come on dude, there's no absence of military  contractors holding down the US presence throughout the Middle East and rest of the world. Don't play coy.

Land of the Faust

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #716 on: November 23, 2020, 04:07:44 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Of course, they're all outright corporatist shills. Both parties are merely wings of one big Corporate party, there's no getting around it. At this point in time, however, what's the point of focusing on the war crimes committed by the Obama administration other than downplaying the destruction enacted by the Trump administration? I haven't seen anyone here say "Joe Biden is a good guy," maybe I've missed it. The Trump administration has been awful, if in no other way than the constant onslaught of bullying language and behavior, for the "average" American. If you believe otherwise, provide examples proving otherwise.
[close]

You provide no evidence and then ask me to provide evidence?

Even going along with your assertion, I'll take bullying language all day long if it means no new wars.
[close]

Come on dude, there's no absence of military  contractors holding down the US presence throughout the Middle East and rest of the world. Don't play coy.

That's true. We should not be involved in these foreign occupations. We should remove everyone from the region and allow the people of the ME to defend themselves. As long as we are there, as a destabilizing presence, they will never be able to achieve true peace.

geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #717 on: November 23, 2020, 05:21:26 PM »
The two parties were much closer to one another in the 90s than they are today. The right has gone off the rails. These false equivalencies aren't convincing to anyone outside of those who already back Trump.

Under the Obama admin we saw the creation of the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau. An agency that was neutered under Trump who wanted zero protection for workers or consumers.

Under Obama we saw an increase in legislation meant at protecting the environment and the US taking the baby step of joining the Paris Agreement. Trump undid much of the environmental rules, opened up mining on protected federal lands, shrunk the size of national parks, and tried to leave the Paris Agreement AND is currently fucking up the arctic open for the benefit of the oil companies. (The baby step of joining the toothless Paris Agreement sent Trump and the GOP into convulsions.)

Under the Obama admin we saw DACA implemented to protect immigrants who came here at a very young age and we saw the increase of policing of immigration (seems kind of like a compromise with the right). Trump tried to undo DACA immediately, blocked people with visas from coming to America because they were Muslim (protecting the freedom of religion part of the Constitution there huh?)... and Sessions and Trump thought it'd be good immigration policy to separate children from their families (some of those children still haven't been reunited with their parents).
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/family-separation-border-immigration-jeff-sessions-rod-rosenstein.html

Obama's cabinet is full of the educated and experienced centrists that one would expect to find in a government that is trying to "reach across the aisle." Trump's cabinet was full of people who didn't even know what their agency did and were completely incompetent or far right idealogues (DeVos, Perry, etc.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama%27s_Cabinet

Dick Cheney and Bush figured out ways to "legally" torture people. Obama didn't torture people, although he ordered drone strikes in a way that was wrong. Trump campaigned on making the US a torture state again; he pardoned someone who engaged in war crimes; and couldn't stop jacking off thinking about dropping the biggest non-nuclear bomb.

Trump wrote love letters to Kim Jong-un. He backed out of the Iran deal and gave the far right more power in Iran (as the moderates were the ones willing to attempt to negotiate with the West... he only made things harder for normal people in Iran and decreased the security of the world).

Obama was there immediately to help all red and blue states after Katrina. Trump told California no federal emergency funding for the wild fires and asked if he could nuke a fucking hurricane. And, left PR to die and tried to give 300 million to his friend via a corrupt deal (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/29/puerto-rico-governor-whitefish-power-contract-cancelled).

Obama was front and center when the ebola scare occurred and he declared H1N1 a national emergency in oct of 2009... throughout the Covid crisis Trump has either said, "Maybe we can inject bleach into people" or went to the golf course, he shadow team (Kushner's frat boy idiots) said, "Fuck it. It is a blue state problem. Let's do nothing" and his official team (Pence) has had people get COVID (not to mention the WH is on its 3rd wave of the COVID... and the fucking president got it and over 100 secret service officers). The fucker didn't even bother going to the recent G20 meeting about covid, but went and played some more golf.

Obama obviously not stoked about Trump winning invited him to the White House, opened up the funding Trump needed to start his transition, and told the country, "We need this guy to do well because he is running the ship that we're all on" Trump won't concede, attempted to steal the election via the courts and is now trying to subvert the will of the people through fucking with the electoral college process and creating doubt on the integrity of US elections (which have structural problems that are meant to keep people of color from voting... not Trump's white base).

“We are determined to take our country back,” Duke said from the rally, calling it a “turning point.” “We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”


Fuck this both parties are equal bullshit. One is a bit softer on issues than I would like them to be, but the other purposefully makes the world a worse place for the interests of the very few.

Amazing to see someone on a skateboard forum argue for a cabinet chosen by a corporation.

Fuck your fuck this both parties are equal bullshit.

It's time to wake up.

They are both uniquely evil in their own ways and beholden to those with money. Not we the people.

They've used the media to get us to argue against each other, instead of realizing that we have more in common than we have difference.

We should have Medicare for All.

We should have have a ubi during this time period when the government has unconstitutionally shut down our lives and our economy.

It is fucked beyond belief that Americans have been allowed to go for so long without any help from the government, and now these assholes are going on vacation while other people's mortgages go unpaid through no fault of their own.

I'm not happy with either side and I think that how we live our lives in relation to the government is going to change very soon.

We are all part of the same consciousness and it's not sustainable to be so divided like this.

Once the division falls away, all these arguments will be meaningless.

Shalom.

Big Skatefase

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #718 on: November 23, 2020, 06:07:06 PM »
As long as Republicans can weaponize faux-patriotism and faux-christian values while appealing to Neo-Nazis, and Democrats can bring nothing to the table politically other than “Vote for us because the other side is worse” there will always be political parties.

It will just be an eternal struggle of progressives trying to push a center right Democratic Party more left, and fascists trying to move a far-right party into something even more sinister.