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Who did/will you vote for?

Joe Biden
Donald Trump
Neither

Author Topic: Biden vs Trump  (Read 20364 times)

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Telly

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #660 on: November 21, 2020, 12:14:53 PM »
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Gene, I am genuinely interested to know what you mean by groupthink regarding covid, and what your opinion is on the matter, should it not align with the group.
[close]

I think we should question the numbers and the efficacy of lockdowns, as I agree with the World Health Organization that lockdowns should not be used as the primary means of controlling the virus. The special envoy to covid at the WHO said, “lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never, ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer.” (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-12/world-health-organization-coronavirus-lockdown-advice/12753688?)

In terms of numbers being inflated, Fauci himself said that the pcr tests are not reliable if the cycle threshold is 35 or more and that that would lead to false positives:
3:50 into this interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Vy6fgaBPE

The New York Times has reported on this as well (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html)

As far as saying we should be able to discuss challenging ideas without name calling, I was not asking for a safe space from EdLawndale, and wrote this because of the Appleyard thread torching him for his thoughts. Dude's a legend in skateboarding and doesn't deserve the shade thrown at him for expressing his opinion.

Yeah, he does.  It’s better to be silent and thought a fool than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #661 on: November 21, 2020, 12:28:30 PM »
Just to take it back a bit, because this is interesting;
Expand Quote
We got Trump because of Obama and Biden. As many have said, Trump is the symptom, not the cause.
[close]
The symptom of what exactly?
It's such a washed out statement that gives you some 14 million hits on google, from basically any type of media source on any remotely political topic you can imagine. If one could define what he is the symptom of, then maybe one could find a solution to it.

He's the result of the failed policies of the previous administrations. Democrats need to look at why Trump was appealing in the first place, as opposed to viewing him as a unique existential threat and claiming that anyone who supports him is a brainwashed right wing white supremacist, as many have done on this thread. The last exchanges between Deputy Wendell and Big Skatefase are a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

If you watched the video I posted there's many sources (majority msm media btw) and much information about what Obama did while in office.

Big Skatefase

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #662 on: November 21, 2020, 12:38:54 PM »
Expand Quote
Just to take it back a bit, because this is interesting;
Expand Quote
We got Trump because of Obama and Biden. As many have said, Trump is the symptom, not the cause.
[close]
The symptom of what exactly?
It's such a washed out statement that gives you some 14 million hits on google, from basically any type of media source on any remotely political topic you can imagine. If one could define what he is the symptom of, then maybe one could find a solution to it.
[close]

He's the result of the failed policies of the previous administrations. Democrats need to look at why Trump was appealing in the first place, as opposed to viewing him as a unique existential threat and claiming that anyone who supports him is a brainwashed right wing white supremacist, as many have done on this thread. The last exchanges between Deputy Wendell and Big Skatefase are a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

If you watched the video I posted there's many sources (majority msm media btw) and much information about what Obama did while in office.

Example of what?

geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #663 on: November 21, 2020, 12:53:10 PM »
He's the result of the failed policies of the previous administrations. Democrats need to look at why Trump was appealing in the first place, as opposed to viewing him as a unique existential threat and claiming that anyone who supports him is a brainwashed right wing white supremacist, as many have done on this thread. The last exchanges between Deputy Wendell and Big Skatefase are a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Example of what?

It's clear that DW doesn't support Trump, but the point stands that critiques on here are met with derision and assumptions, ie

Quote from: Big Skatefase
Just like that Kenyan mooslim Obamer was gunna take our guns and put us in FEMA concentration camps...

Big Skatefase

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #664 on: November 21, 2020, 01:00:53 PM »
Expand Quote
He's the result of the failed policies of the previous administrations. Democrats need to look at why Trump was appealing in the first place, as opposed to viewing him as a unique existential threat and claiming that anyone who supports him is a brainwashed right wing white supremacist, as many have done on this thread. The last exchanges between Deputy Wendell and Big Skatefase are a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Example of what?
[close]

It's clear that DW doesn't support Trump, but the point stands that critiques on here are met with derision and assumptions, ie

Quote from: Big Skatefase
Expand Quote
Just like that Kenyan mooslim Obamer was gunna take our guns and put us in FEMA concentration camps...
[close]

When did I say he supports Trump? Did you just make an assumtion? I'm just joking about out how the failed 2A propaganda brought up under the Obama administration is similar to the new 2A propaganda based around Biden.

essal

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #665 on: November 21, 2020, 01:05:03 PM »
Expand Quote
Just to take it back a bit, because this is interesting;
Expand Quote
We got Trump because of Obama and Biden. As many have said, Trump is the symptom, not the cause.
[close]
The symptom of what exactly?
It's such a washed out statement that gives you some 14 million hits on google, from basically any type of media source on any remotely political topic you can imagine. If one could define what he is the symptom of, then maybe one could find a solution to it.
[close]

He's the result of the failed policies of the previous administrations. Democrats need to look at why Trump was appealing in the first place, as opposed to viewing him as a unique existential threat and claiming that anyone who supports him is a brainwashed right wing white supremacist, as many have done on this thread. The last exchanges between Deputy Wendell and Big Skatefase are a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

If you watched the video I posted there's many sources (majority msm media btw) and much information about what Obama did while in office.
You see, there are some issues about using some washed up "comedian" as your source. Did Obama militarize the police? No, the DRMO (later DLA) with their 1033 program which has been running since the 1990s militarized the police because of an abundance of material available from OEF and OIF, plus the obvious influx of veterans of OEF and OIF who bring new TTPs into training. This however, has nothing to do with why Republicans voted for Trump, or anything about a cause or symptom.

So Jimmy here isn't truthful, even though he ranted about being it for a while. Hell, he even puts in an The Onion article at the end.. If I can dismantle Jimmys so called arguments, then I really hope that anyone can.

If I try my best to make a conclusion based on the video; The reason Republicans voted for Trump was because Obama involved the US in a lot of international situations. Am I onto what you consider to the reason? If not, could you for the sake of the discussion, list the most crucial failed policies?

Glurmpz

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #666 on: November 21, 2020, 01:11:25 PM »
even forgetting that Joe Biden is one of THE primary architects of the United States’ distinctly fucked system of “mass incarceration” (hey, you privileged hypocrites, fuck off with “he’s changed” and he’s apologized,” because those changes and those apologies do nothing to negate all of the lives and families his policies destroyed), his and Harris’ plans to disarm the poor and working classes are a whole other reason the population of poor and working Americans who i am part of, could never have voted for him--which says a lot, because toxic white billionaires like Trump are my truest enemy, and Biden is so fucked i still could not vote against Trump, so this was one of the clearest elections in my adult life, when there truly was no choice whatsoever.

nothing says a candidate is more out of touch with the daily experiences of poor and working people, than the desire to disarm them--there’s a whole page dedicated to Biden and Harris’ plans for this, couched in lots of euphemistic language for forced buybacks and outright confiscation here:

https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/

fuck Biden right to hell--he is Trump in a different suit, no matter what all of the privileged hypocrites in here want to tell themselves to make it seem like it’s all going to be alright.

the shooting ranges that I frequent have been more diverse places than the university campuses where I teach since before the current manic run on guns and ammo. amongst the various channels of (mis)information, Biden has already been talking to the ATF about how to proceed, and the ATF is already making moves with regards to “braces” on “pistol-caliber-carbines,” and i’m going to go ahead and state here, that rich, privileged fucks trying to disarm the poor and working people of this country will do more than anything else to makes these classes see their commonality, see beyond racial, ethnic, and cultural differences, and come together.

"The unpreparedness of the educated classes, the lack of practical links between them and the mass of the people, their laziness, and, let it be said, their cowardice at the decisive moment of the struggle will give rise to tragic mishaps."
                                                                                   -Frantz Fanon

For anyone who doesn't want to read all this, here's the summary...

I like guns.

Deputy Wendell

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #667 on: November 21, 2020, 01:15:48 PM »
Expand Quote
even forgetting that Joe Biden is one of THE primary architects of the United States’ distinctly fucked system of “mass incarceration” (hey, you privileged hypocrites, fuck off with “he’s changed” and he’s apologized,” because those changes and those apologies do nothing to negate all of the lives and families his policies destroyed), his and Harris’ plans to disarm the poor and working classes are a whole other reason the population of poor and working Americans who i am part of, could never have voted for him--which says a lot, because toxic white billionaires like Trump are my truest enemy, and Biden is so fucked i still could not vote against Trump, so this was one of the clearest elections in my adult life, when there truly was no choice whatsoever.

nothing says a candidate is more out of touch with the daily experiences of poor and working people, than the desire to disarm them--there’s a whole page dedicated to Biden and Harris’ plans for this, couched in lots of euphemistic language for forced buybacks and outright confiscation here:

https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/

fuck Biden right to hell--he is Trump in a different suit, no matter what all of the privileged hypocrites in here want to tell themselves to make it seem like it’s all going to be alright.

the shooting ranges that I frequent have been more diverse places than the university campuses where I teach since before the current manic run on guns and ammo. amongst the various channels of (mis)information, Biden has already been talking to the ATF about how to proceed, and the ATF is already making moves with regards to “braces” on “pistol-caliber-carbines,” and i’m going to go ahead and state here, that rich, privileged fucks trying to disarm the poor and working people of this country will do more than anything else to makes these classes see their commonality, see beyond racial, ethnic, and cultural differences, and come together.

"The unpreparedness of the educated classes, the lack of practical links between them and the mass of the people, their laziness, and, let it be said, their cowardice at the decisive moment of the struggle will give rise to tragic mishaps."
                                                                                   -Frantz Fanon
[close]

For anyone who doesn't want to read all this, here's the summary...

I like guns.

based on the few exchanges i've had with you, it's so clear that you respond to people's comments without actually reading them or any material that accompany them.

so, you've never had to defend yourself, someone you love, or your home? must be nice...

Big Skatefase

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #668 on: November 21, 2020, 01:22:07 PM »
Where in that link that you posted have a policy that would stop you from being able to defend yourself, your loved ones, or your home?

Deputy Wendell

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #669 on: November 21, 2020, 01:41:42 PM »
Where in that link that you posted have a policy that would stop you from being able to defend yourself, your loved ones, or your home?

as just one of the biggest and most basic issues, violent criminals (which is to saying nothing of the state in its various forms) have access to "high capacity" magazines and every platform and configuration of semi-auto and fully auto firearm (the latter of which nobody i know in my decades of shooting has had the money or resources to own, unlike the aforementioned), so so should my friends, family, neighbors, and i.

the registration program Biden is suggesting as an alternative to "buybacks," is just another way his classist shit comes to the surface, because of how expensive it is for NFA items--only people with money could register their weapons, fucking poor and working people, who are the ones who actually need them...


geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #670 on: November 21, 2020, 01:44:31 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Just to take it back a bit, because this is interesting;
Expand Quote
We got Trump because of Obama and Biden. As many have said, Trump is the symptom, not the cause.
[close]
The symptom of what exactly?
It's such a washed out statement that gives you some 14 million hits on google, from basically any type of media source on any remotely political topic you can imagine. If one could define what he is the symptom of, then maybe one could find a solution to it.
[close]

He's the result of the failed policies of the previous administrations. Democrats need to look at why Trump was appealing in the first place, as opposed to viewing him as a unique existential threat and claiming that anyone who supports him is a brainwashed right wing white supremacist, as many have done on this thread. The last exchanges between Deputy Wendell and Big Skatefase are a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

If you watched the video I posted there's many sources (majority msm media btw) and much information about what Obama did while in office.
[close]
You see, there are some issues about using some washed up "comedian" as your source. Did Obama militarize the police? No, the DRMO (later DLA) with their 1033 program which has been running since the 1990s militarized the police because of an abundance of material available from OEF and OIF, plus the obvious influx of veterans of OEF and OIF who bring new TTPs into training. This however, has nothing to do with why Republicans voted for Trump, or anything about a cause or symptom.

So Jimmy here isn't truthful, even though he ranted about being it for a while. Hell, he even puts in an The Onion article at the end.. If I can dismantle Jimmys so called arguments, then I really hope that anyone can.

If I try my best to make a conclusion based on the video; The reason Republicans voted for Trump was because Obama involved the US in a lot of international situations. Am I onto what you consider to the reason? If not, could you for the sake of the discussion, list the most crucial failed policies?

Are you really trying your best, because your tone seems snide and the onion article was a clear joke.

Under Obama we got more wars, more drone bombings, more police militarization, bigger banks, Monsanto protection, Flint water crisis, Arctic drilling, government spying on reporters, NSA spying scandal, whistleblower torture (Chelsea Manning), ATF gunwalking scandal, IRS misconduct, and DAPL to name a few things.

Big Skatefase

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #671 on: November 21, 2020, 01:46:26 PM »
Expand Quote
Where in that link that you posted have a policy that would stop you from being able to defend yourself, your loved ones, or your home?
[close]

as just one of the biggest and most basic issues, violent criminals (which is to saying nothing of the state in its various forms) have access to "high capacity" magazines and every platform and configuration of semi-auto and fully auto firearm (the latter of which nobody i know in my decades of shooting has had the money or resources to own, unlike the aforementioned), so so should my friends, family, neighbors, and i.

the registration program Biden is suggesting as an alternative to "buybacks," is just another way his classist shit comes to the surface, because of how expensive it is for NFA items--only people with money could register their weapons, fucking poor and working people, who are the ones who actually need them...

Yet from that link that you posted, you would still be able to purchase handguns, shotguns, and most rifles and still be able to defend yourself, your loved ones, and your home?

Glurmpz

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #672 on: November 21, 2020, 01:48:30 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
even forgetting that Joe Biden is one of THE primary architects of the United States’ distinctly fucked system of “mass incarceration” (hey, you privileged hypocrites, fuck off with “he’s changed” and he’s apologized,” because those changes and those apologies do nothing to negate all of the lives and families his policies destroyed), his and Harris’ plans to disarm the poor and working classes are a whole other reason the population of poor and working Americans who i am part of, could never have voted for him--which says a lot, because toxic white billionaires like Trump are my truest enemy, and Biden is so fucked i still could not vote against Trump, so this was one of the clearest elections in my adult life, when there truly was no choice whatsoever.

nothing says a candidate is more out of touch with the daily experiences of poor and working people, than the desire to disarm them--there’s a whole page dedicated to Biden and Harris’ plans for this, couched in lots of euphemistic language for forced buybacks and outright confiscation here:

https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/

fuck Biden right to hell--he is Trump in a different suit, no matter what all of the privileged hypocrites in here want to tell themselves to make it seem like it’s all going to be alright.

the shooting ranges that I frequent have been more diverse places than the university campuses where I teach since before the current manic run on guns and ammo. amongst the various channels of (mis)information, Biden has already been talking to the ATF about how to proceed, and the ATF is already making moves with regards to “braces” on “pistol-caliber-carbines,” and i’m going to go ahead and state here, that rich, privileged fucks trying to disarm the poor and working people of this country will do more than anything else to makes these classes see their commonality, see beyond racial, ethnic, and cultural differences, and come together.

"The unpreparedness of the educated classes, the lack of practical links between them and the mass of the people, their laziness, and, let it be said, their cowardice at the decisive moment of the struggle will give rise to tragic mishaps."
                                                                                   -Frantz Fanon
[close]

For anyone who doesn't want to read all this, here's the summary...

I like guns.
[close]

based on the few exchanges i've had with you, it's so clear that you respond to people's comments without actually reading them or any material that accompany them.

so, you've never had to defend yourself, someone you love, or your home? must be nice...

I read your whole comment, did not bother with the links this time though. That would be weird to reply to someone without reading their comment. I have never done that. If I'm interested in what you're saying or think your points are worth digging into, I'd check the links.

Of course I haven't had to defend anyone by brandishing a gun. I don't live in some trap house in a US ghetto. What sort of life are you living that you feel like you need guns to scare off bad guys? I'm being honest. I've lived in Oceanside CA literally a block from some sketchy shit. I'd bike home right through that spot at night all the time, walk the dog etc. Hell, I've taken a wrong turn in Long Beach and ended up with a whole bunch of people glaring at me, still didn't feel like I needed a gun. That's an American mindset. We're much more peaceful up here in Canada. 

Deputy Wendell

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #673 on: November 21, 2020, 01:51:57 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Where in that link that you posted have a policy that would stop you from being able to defend yourself, your loved ones, or your home?
[close]

as just one of the biggest and most basic issues, violent criminals (which is to saying nothing of the state in its various forms) have access to "high capacity" magazines and every platform and configuration of semi-auto and fully auto firearm (the latter of which nobody i know in my decades of shooting has had the money or resources to own, unlike the aforementioned), so so should my friends, family, neighbors, and i.

the registration program Biden is suggesting as an alternative to "buybacks," is just another way his classist shit comes to the surface, because of how expensive it is for NFA items--only people with money could register their weapons, fucking poor and working people, who are the ones who actually need them...
[close]

Yet from that link that you posted, you would still be able to purchase handguns, shotguns, and most rifles and still be able to defend yourself, your loved ones, and your home?

what aren't you getting about bans on and/or coerced (and forced) buybacks of "high capacity magazines" and "assault weapons" and what that would mean for all of us trying to be at least comparably armed as those who pose a threat?

Big Skatefase

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #674 on: November 21, 2020, 01:59:25 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Where in that link that you posted have a policy that would stop you from being able to defend yourself, your loved ones, or your home?
[close]

as just one of the biggest and most basic issues, violent criminals (which is to saying nothing of the state in its various forms) have access to "high capacity" magazines and every platform and configuration of semi-auto and fully auto firearm (the latter of which nobody i know in my decades of shooting has had the money or resources to own, unlike the aforementioned), so so should my friends, family, neighbors, and i.

the registration program Biden is suggesting as an alternative to "buybacks," is just another way his classist shit comes to the surface, because of how expensive it is for NFA items--only people with money could register their weapons, fucking poor and working people, who are the ones who actually need them...
[close]

Yet from that link that you posted, you would still be able to purchase handguns, shotguns, and most rifles and still be able to defend yourself, your loved ones, and your home?
[close]

what aren't you getting about bans on and/or coerced (and forced) buybacks of "high capacity magazines" and "assault weapons" and what that would mean for all of us trying to be at least comparably armed as those who pose a threat?

What enemies do you have to where you can't defend yourself with a handgun, shotgun, or ["non-assault"] rifle?


Deputy Wendell

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #675 on: November 21, 2020, 02:07:28 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Where in that link that you posted have a policy that would stop you from being able to defend yourself, your loved ones, or your home?
[close]

as just one of the biggest and most basic issues, violent criminals (which is to saying nothing of the state in its various forms) have access to "high capacity" magazines and every platform and configuration of semi-auto and fully auto firearm (the latter of which nobody i know in my decades of shooting has had the money or resources to own, unlike the aforementioned), so so should my friends, family, neighbors, and i.

the registration program Biden is suggesting as an alternative to "buybacks," is just another way his classist shit comes to the surface, because of how expensive it is for NFA items--only people with money could register their weapons, fucking poor and working people, who are the ones who actually need them...
[close]

Yet from that link that you posted, you would still be able to purchase handguns, shotguns, and most rifles and still be able to defend yourself, your loved ones, and your home?
[close]

what aren't you getting about bans on and/or coerced (and forced) buybacks of "high capacity magazines" and "assault weapons" and what that would mean for all of us trying to be at least comparably armed as those who pose a threat?
[close]

What enemies do you have to where you can't defend yourself with a handgun, shotgun, or ["non-assault"] rifle?

in the context of this conversation, why don't you explain to me what the difference is between my 9mm Glock handguns and my AKs (oh, sorry, my "assault" rifles)?

by the way, the vast majority of gun deaths are by handgun--if i remember right, like only 2% occur by "assault weapon"

essal

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #676 on: November 21, 2020, 02:08:26 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Just to take it back a bit, because this is interesting;
Expand Quote
We got Trump because of Obama and Biden. As many have said, Trump is the symptom, not the cause.
[close]
The symptom of what exactly?
It's such a washed out statement that gives you some 14 million hits on google, from basically any type of media source on any remotely political topic you can imagine. If one could define what he is the symptom of, then maybe one could find a solution to it.
[close]

He's the result of the failed policies of the previous administrations. Democrats need to look at why Trump was appealing in the first place, as opposed to viewing him as a unique existential threat and claiming that anyone who supports him is a brainwashed right wing white supremacist, as many have done on this thread. The last exchanges between Deputy Wendell and Big Skatefase are a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

If you watched the video I posted there's many sources (majority msm media btw) and much information about what Obama did while in office.
[close]
You see, there are some issues about using some washed up "comedian" as your source. Did Obama militarize the police? No, the DRMO (later DLA) with their 1033 program which has been running since the 1990s militarized the police because of an abundance of material available from OEF and OIF, plus the obvious influx of veterans of OEF and OIF who bring new TTPs into training. This however, has nothing to do with why Republicans voted for Trump, or anything about a cause or symptom.

So Jimmy here isn't truthful, even though he ranted about being it for a while. Hell, he even puts in an The Onion article at the end.. If I can dismantle Jimmys so called arguments, then I really hope that anyone can.

If I try my best to make a conclusion based on the video; The reason Republicans voted for Trump was because Obama involved the US in a lot of international situations. Am I onto what you consider to the reason? If not, could you for the sake of the discussion, list the most crucial failed policies?
[close]
Are you really trying your best, because your tone seems snide and the onion article was a clear joke.

Under Obama we got more wars, more drone bombings, more police militarization, bigger banks, Monsanto protection, Flint water crisis, Arctic drilling, government spying on reporters, NSA spying scandal, whistleblower torture (Chelsea Manning), ATF gunwalking scandal, IRS misconduct, and DAPL to name a few things.
Ok, so these things made people vote for Trump, but because of what exactly?

ATF gun walking started in 2006, DAPL involves jobs for Americans- same for arctic drilling (which Trump finalized...), Chelsea Manning was never popular with Republicans -because he/she was a considered a traitor (and was jailed again in 2019 after being commuted by Obama..), NSA spying has been a Patriot Act symptom since it was introduced.

So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.

Big Skatefase

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #677 on: November 21, 2020, 02:16:59 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Where in that link that you posted have a policy that would stop you from being able to defend yourself, your loved ones, or your home?
[close]

as just one of the biggest and most basic issues, violent criminals (which is to saying nothing of the state in its various forms) have access to "high capacity" magazines and every platform and configuration of semi-auto and fully auto firearm (the latter of which nobody i know in my decades of shooting has had the money or resources to own, unlike the aforementioned), so so should my friends, family, neighbors, and i.

the registration program Biden is suggesting as an alternative to "buybacks," is just another way his classist shit comes to the surface, because of how expensive it is for NFA items--only people with money could register their weapons, fucking poor and working people, who are the ones who actually need them...
[close]

Yet from that link that you posted, you would still be able to purchase handguns, shotguns, and most rifles and still be able to defend yourself, your loved ones, and your home?
[close]

what aren't you getting about bans on and/or coerced (and forced) buybacks of "high capacity magazines" and "assault weapons" and what that would mean for all of us trying to be at least comparably armed as those who pose a threat?
[close]

What enemies do you have to where you can't defend yourself with a handgun, shotgun, or ["non-assault"] rifle?
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in the context of this conversation, why don't you explain to me what the difference is between my 9mm Glock handguns and my AKs (oh, sorry, my "assault" rifles)?

by the way, the vast majority of gun deaths are by handgun--if i remember right, like only 2% occur by "assault weapon"

You don't need to play the "What is an assault rifle" game with me. I like guns, and have shot guns in Georgia with my family, and I've already said Democrats don't exactly what know an assault rifle is. Which is why I put "non- assault" in quotations. A Ruger Mini-14 is as much of an "assault rifle" as a Knights Armament Company SR-15, but some Democrats don't even know enough about guns that they think they're different guns. The gun industry will always find loopholes around NFA laws, like the difference between a SBR, and an "AR-15 pistol" being just a "brace". Wait, didn't the Trump administration designate the Honey Badger from a pistol to an SBR and made millions of gun owners now potential felons?  ??? Not very pro-2A of him....

JANUS

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #678 on: November 21, 2020, 02:46:22 PM »
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Gene, I am genuinely interested to know what you mean by groupthink regarding covid, and what your opinion is on the matter, should it not align with the group.
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I think we should question the numbers and the efficacy of lockdowns, as I agree with the World Health Organization that lockdowns should not be used as the primary means of controlling the virus. The special envoy to covid at the WHO said, “lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never, ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer.” (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-12/world-health-organization-coronavirus-lockdown-advice/12753688?)

In terms of numbers being inflated, Fauci himself said that the pcr tests are not reliable if the cycle threshold is 35 or more and that that would lead to false positives:
3:50 into this interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Vy6fgaBPE

The New York Times has reported on this as well (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html)

As far as saying we should be able to discuss challenging ideas without name calling, I was not asking for a safe space from EdLawndale, and wrote this because of the Appleyard thread torching him for his thoughts. Dude's a legend in skateboarding and doesn't deserve the shade thrown at him for expressing his opinion.

I agree with you that lockdowns are especially detrimental for people who have less money. Unfortunately, I’m not currently in a position to watch the video you posted, and the times article is behind a paywall on my phone, but it is my understanding that the pcr test is disadvantaged by higher probability of false negatives as opposed to false positives, but I am not an expert, so I would have to come back to that after taking a look at the info that’s available. Anyway, thanks for sharing.
If you can't handle me at my Marc Johnson, you don't deserve me at my Bobby Puleo.

geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #679 on: November 21, 2020, 03:41:38 PM »
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Just to take it back a bit, because this is interesting;
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We got Trump because of Obama and Biden. As many have said, Trump is the symptom, not the cause.
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The symptom of what exactly?
It's such a washed out statement that gives you some 14 million hits on google, from basically any type of media source on any remotely political topic you can imagine. If one could define what he is the symptom of, then maybe one could find a solution to it.
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He's the result of the failed policies of the previous administrations. Democrats need to look at why Trump was appealing in the first place, as opposed to viewing him as a unique existential threat and claiming that anyone who supports him is a brainwashed right wing white supremacist, as many have done on this thread. The last exchanges between Deputy Wendell and Big Skatefase are a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

If you watched the video I posted there's many sources (majority msm media btw) and much information about what Obama did while in office.
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You see, there are some issues about using some washed up "comedian" as your source. Did Obama militarize the police? No, the DRMO (later DLA) with their 1033 program which has been running since the 1990s militarized the police because of an abundance of material available from OEF and OIF, plus the obvious influx of veterans of OEF and OIF who bring new TTPs into training. This however, has nothing to do with why Republicans voted for Trump, or anything about a cause or symptom.

So Jimmy here isn't truthful, even though he ranted about being it for a while. Hell, he even puts in an The Onion article at the end.. If I can dismantle Jimmys so called arguments, then I really hope that anyone can.

If I try my best to make a conclusion based on the video; The reason Republicans voted for Trump was because Obama involved the US in a lot of international situations. Am I onto what you consider to the reason? If not, could you for the sake of the discussion, list the most crucial failed policies?
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Are you really trying your best, because your tone seems snide and the onion article was a clear joke.

Under Obama we got more wars, more drone bombings, more police militarization, bigger banks, Monsanto protection, Flint water crisis, Arctic drilling, government spying on reporters, NSA spying scandal, whistleblower torture (Chelsea Manning), ATF gunwalking scandal, IRS misconduct, and DAPL to name a few things.
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Ok, so these things made people vote for Trump, but because of what exactly?

ATF gun walking started in 2006, DAPL involves jobs for Americans- same for arctic drilling (which Trump finalized...), Chelsea Manning was never popular with Republicans -because he/she was a considered a traitor (and was jailed again in 2019 after being commuted by Obama..), NSA spying has been a Patriot Act symptom since it was introduced.

So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.

You really don't understand it? Seriously?

Hillary Clinton ran on continuing the Obama legacy. (https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-obamas-campaign-228625).

That legacy was not appealing to enough voters to win.

So when I say that we got Trump because of Obama and Biden's policies, I mean that not enough people wanted to support a third Obama term for Hillary to be elected.

Glurmpz

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #680 on: November 21, 2020, 04:22:35 PM »
This is a really interesting thread, being a Canadian. I'm genuinely curious what sort of life Deputy Wendell is living that has resulted in him needing guns to protect himself. The only thing I can think of is either living in a very dangerous ghetto (though many people live in that sort of situation and don't own guns) or being involved in criminal activity. The gun obsession in America is both scary and sad. 


IusedToSkateMore

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #681 on: November 21, 2020, 04:35:05 PM »
The post about Trump being the symptom of Obama/Biden would be spot on if it came out and said "Most republicans couldn't stomach a fit, handsome, intelligent, educated, humorous, well spoken, family oriented Black man in the role that they themselves may have aspired towards when in kindergarten but that no one like them, other than in relation to the color of their skin, has or will ever hold."

Simply put, it's the fight for white supremacy.

geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #682 on: November 21, 2020, 04:39:32 PM »
The post about Trump being the symptom of Obama/Biden would be spot on if it came out and said "Most republicans couldn't stomach a fit, handsome, intelligent, educated, humorous, well spoken, family oriented Black man in the role that they themselves may have aspired towards when in kindergarten but that no one like them, other than in relation to the color of their skin, has or will ever hold."

Simply put, it's the fight for white supremacy.

Sounds kinda similar to what Biden had to say about Obama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxCvTb1KRNA


IusedToSkateMore

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #683 on: November 21, 2020, 04:48:22 PM »
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The post about Trump being the symptom of Obama/Biden would be spot on if it came out and said "Most republicans couldn't stomach a fit, handsome, intelligent, educated, humorous, well spoken, family oriented Black man in the role that they themselves may have aspired towards when in kindergarten but that no one like them, other than in relation to the color of their skin, has or will ever hold."

Simply put, it's the fight for white supremacy.
[close]

Sounds kinda similar to what Biden had to say about Obama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxCvTb1KRNA

What's the point in posting that video clip?

GardenSkater77

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #684 on: November 21, 2020, 05:00:21 PM »
This is a really interesting thread, being a Canadian. I'm genuinely curious what sort of life Deputy Wendell is living that has resulted in him needing guns to protect himself. The only thing I can think of is either living in a very dangerous ghetto (though many people live in that sort of situation and don't own guns) or being involved in criminal activity. The gun obsession in America is both scary and sad.

You probably know this but gun laws in the US are hugely different depending upon the state one lives in. I am not an expert and don’t follow gun laws, but I know that certain states have open or concealed carry. The only guns I have ever seen in NJ are hunting rifles during deer season. Some states you can buy guns at Walmart—you cannot in NJ.

I would never want to live in a state that allowed its citizens to walk into a public space packing heat. Some may claim that the ability to carry a weapon in public is a American freedom, but when I am in states that allows its citizens to openly carry I do not feel comfortable. And the idea concealed carry really bothers me. Wikipedia has a page on concealed carry in the US and it is even more complex than I thought.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States

Glurmpz

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #685 on: November 21, 2020, 05:20:05 PM »
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This is a really interesting thread, being a Canadian. I'm genuinely curious what sort of life Deputy Wendell is living that has resulted in him needing guns to protect himself. The only thing I can think of is either living in a very dangerous ghetto (though many people live in that sort of situation and don't own guns) or being involved in criminal activity. The gun obsession in America is both scary and sad.
[close]

You probably know this but gun laws in the US are hugely different depending upon the state one lives in. I am not an expert and don’t follow gun laws, but I know that certain states have open or concealed carry. The only guns I have ever seen in NJ are hunting rifles during deer season. Some states you can buy guns at Walmart—you cannot in NJ.

I would never want to live in a state that allowed its citizens to walk into a public space packing heat. Some may claim that the ability to carry a weapon in public is a American freedom, but when I am in states that allows its citizens to openly carry I do not feel comfortable. And the idea concealed carry really bothers me. Wikipedia has a page on concealed carry in the US and it is even more complex than I thought.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States

I feel the same - and I love the US. If I could legally live in California I'd be there in a heartbeat. Now, Newark NJ, for example, is not somewhere I'd want to live. I've spent about 2 weeks there and I once saw a dude with a gun clearly visible in his waistband casually rip a chain off an old man's neck, start jogging away, and then slowed back down to a walk when he realized an old man is not going to chase some thug with a gun who just robbed him. Broad daylight on the main drag, right across the street from those dope granite ledges that go for a whole block. Yeesh.

I also want to make it clear I'm not trying to antagonize DeputyWendell - I really am curious what sort of circumstances he lives in that make him feel the way he does about needing guns.

Glurmpz

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #686 on: November 21, 2020, 08:02:43 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyLpbO5S4xE&ab_channel=TheDailyShowwithTrevorNoah

"We're here to celebrate the winning of Donald Trump"

"You're 4 years too late"

So good lol

I love watching these - even more so now. Can't wait for January 20th. Trump rallies look like conventions for backwoods rednecks mixed with a bunch of cracked out carnies. Lol.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 09:54:33 PM by Glurmpz »

TheLurper

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #687 on: November 21, 2020, 11:07:31 PM »
So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)

« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 11:19:49 PM by TheLurper »

Quote from: ChuckRamone
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geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #688 on: November 22, 2020, 01:13:07 AM »
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So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
[close]

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)

Lotta leaps on here and a great example of a straw man fallacy.

Do you really want to bring up deportation and kids?

Let’s take a quick look at Obama’s record:

Here he is deporting Honduran children as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum/a better life:
https://reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN0FK29N20140715
"The White House said on Tuesday that Central Americans trying to cross the U.S. border should know “they will not be welcome to this country,” a day after the United States deported a planeload of women and children to Honduras."

Here he is going after more power to send unaccompanied children back across the border
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/obama-administration-seeks-power-send-kids-back-across-border
“President Obama is asking Congress to change the law to enable the government to inflict expedited removal on unaccompanied children. That is simply unconscionable,” said Leslie A. Holman, president of the American Immigration Lawyers Association.” No matter what you call it, rapid deportations without any meaningful hearing for children who are rightly afraid of the violence and turmoil from which they fled is wrong, and contradicts the fundamental values of this nation.”

And maybe the most important one, is who built the cages and implemented that system. Do you remember when Michelle Obama spoke so passionately about Americans "watch[ing] in horror as children are torn from their families and thrown in cages"? Here's the AP Fact check on that statement and what she conveniently leaves out:
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-democratic-national-convention-ap-fact-check-immigration-politics-2663c84832a13cdd7a8233becfc7a5f3
"What she did not say is that the very same “cages” were built and used in her husband’s administration, for the same purpose of holding migrant kids temporarily."

Obama was a corporate shill who deported more people than any previous administration (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661), dropped so many bombs that they ran out (https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/politics/air-force-20000-bombs-missiles-isis/index.html), not to mention drone bombing a wedding party that killed 33 innocent women and children in Afghanistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wech_Baghtu_wedding_party_airstrike) and had a cabinet that WikiLeaks revealed was chosen by CitiGroup (https://observer.com/2016/10/obama-makes-first-appearance-in-wikileaks-receives-admin-list-from-big-banker/).

Dude was a war criminal who gave great speeches, wore nice suits, charmed the media and continued business as usual.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 01:56:44 AM by geneparmesan »

essal

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #689 on: November 22, 2020, 02:00:07 AM »
You really don't understand it? Seriously?

Hillary Clinton ran on continuing the Obama legacy. (https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-obamas-campaign-228625).

That legacy was not appealing to enough voters to win.

So when I say that we got Trump because of Obama and Biden's policies, I mean that not enough people wanted to support a third Obama term for Hillary to be elected.
Ok, so completely ignoring the fact that the Democrats had a huge divide between Biden and Hillary supporters- what made the Republicans go for Trump? Or, is the quote supposed to be "the election of a republican president in 2016 is the symptom of internal problems in the democratic party" and it's completely irrelevant that Trump was the R Candidate?

Or, let's just put it like this; why did roughly half the country vote for Trump for a 2nd term? Simply because he was the republican candidate or because they like his policies and work so far?

As an outsider, it's completely mindblowing to see how people suck the dick of their party. You could have a known child molester as your candidate and people would still cheer for them. The toxic problem in US politics is the 2-party system, which quite frankly is just a single party away from being a 100% autocracy. You like guns? Well you also want to ban abortions, hate immigrants and you hold the Christian religion above anything else. You want Government healthcare? Now you hate guns and want to stop the oil industry. Like what the fuck kinda choices are that?

There isn't a single "freedom" that I am envious of the US for. What a fucking shithole.