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So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.
I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:
1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)
3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)
4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)
5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)
well said. the dude is trolling hard.
I don't know that Gene is necessarily trolling or making his arguments in bad faith - many of the points on the past mistakes made by democrats and "liberal" politicians are valid.
But the important question that gets raised by his arguments is - is the democratic party salvageable or even worth saving due to its shortcomings? We can all agree that there have been some major missteps, both in the past and the present (I range from "not wild" to "incredibly disappointed" about many of Biden's tentative cabinet picks).
While trying not to speak entirely for Gene, it appears that his opinion is along the lines of that the failure of the democratic party to live up to its promises has been consistent and repeated often enough that at this point the party is broken beyond repair.
What I'm hearing from others in this thread is that despite its flaws, there is still hope and faith in the democrats to protect and enrich the lives of their constituency, at least in a way that republican lawmakers will be unable, or unwilling, to do.
I think these are both valid viewpoints, and as shown by Deputy Wendell's posts - individual lived experiences drive different "wedge" issues and generate varying amounts of faith in the two parties and their stances on various domestic policies.
The largest opportunity for the democrats to succeed is by listening to, and campaigning based on, the varying views within the party, or the "left" as a whole. Democrats ate shit this election is a way that can't simply be described as "Trump voters racist". A push for centrist platforms across the board obviously failed, and that's not to say centrism doesn't have a place in the party - what went wrong is that almost all candidates said "here's what you're going to get, and you'll vote for us because (D)". Trump's campaign team used a boots on the ground approach that made voters feel appreciated and listened to rather than disenfranchised, which is part of the reason why he increased his support with various minority groups that democrats have long taken as a given vote. I'm a huge advocate of strong progressive policies where there is an opportunity to implement them - successful implementation will drive a desire in other regions. There shouldn't be any fear of being called a socialist, the republican candidate will call you that anyways and if you're able to articulate how your policy will improve the lives of all of your constituents, you may generate support in a manner that wasn't really seen this cycle.
The point of this longwinded post is to say - these debates among left leaning people are just as important or more than cross-party debates, and it's important to acknowledge the shortcomings within one's own party in order to improve it - or blow it up and start again.