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Author Topic: Biden vs Trump  (Read 31942 times)

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Deputy Wendell

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #690 on: November 23, 2020, 05:34:34 AM »
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This is a really interesting thread, being a Canadian. I'm genuinely curious what sort of life Deputy Wendell is living that has resulted in him needing guns to protect himself. The only thing I can think of is either living in a very dangerous ghetto (though many people live in that sort of situation and don't own guns) or being involved in criminal activity. The gun obsession in America is both scary and sad.
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You probably know this but gun laws in the US are hugely different depending upon the state one lives in. I am not an expert and don’t follow gun laws, but I know that certain states have open or concealed carry. The only guns I have ever seen in NJ are hunting rifles during deer season. Some states you can buy guns at Walmart—you cannot in NJ.

I would never want to live in a state that allowed its citizens to walk into a public space packing heat. Some may claim that the ability to carry a weapon in public is a American freedom, but when I am in states that allows its citizens to openly carry I do not feel comfortable. And the idea concealed carry really bothers me. Wikipedia has a page on concealed carry in the US and it is even more complex than I thought.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States
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I feel the same - and I love the US. If I could legally live in California I'd be there in a heartbeat. Now, Newark NJ, for example, is not somewhere I'd want to live. I've spent about 2 weeks there and I once saw a dude with a gun clearly visible in his waistband casually rip a chain off an old man's neck, start jogging away, and then slowed back down to a walk when he realized an old man is not going to chase some thug with a gun who just robbed him. Broad daylight on the main drag, right across the street from those dope granite ledges that go for a whole block. Yeesh.

I also want to make it clear I'm not trying to antagonize DeputyWendell - I really am curious what sort of circumstances he lives in that make him feel the way he does about needing guns.
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you stated that twice now on the last page or so of this thread...should i tell you my life story? i'm 50 years old in April, where would you like me to start? i mention above that i'm an English professor in the humanities, so obviously as of late, things are ok...but should i make this thread about me?

the most darling thing that anyone has said in this entire thread is when you say above: "Of course I haven't had to defend anyone by brandishing a gun. I don't live in some trap house in a US ghetto." you reveal so much about yourself and your life there.

do you have any idea what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding poor/working people who just want to work and live with a little dignity, and raise children with decent schools, feel safe, etc.?

what i will say is, although i'm temporarily in one of its inner-ring suburbs, i have lived in the city of Detroit for over thirty years, and i have seen and experienced what one single "trap house in a US ghetto" can do to the daily lives of an entire surrounding neighborhood of law-abiding people, and it's one of many reasons that some of my experiences in life let me know for sure that i should at least aspire to be comparably armed as the desperate human beings running that one "trap house in a US ghetto"...
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Thanks for the explanation - so the answer was that you did live in a sketchy neighborhood, in Detroit. I assume you must have been robbed while living there, which made you want to have a gun, which seems reasonable. Comparing your experience in one of the most dangerous cities in the country to the lives of all low income people everywhere is kind of silly though. I'm poor, and as I mentioned, where I lived in Oceanside CA was right next to a ghetto that I'm sure had multiple trap houses. In that area I felt perfectly safe, so it's not reflective of your claims that poor people in poor neighborhoods want/need guns for protection.

I've talked to countless americans about the gun obsession - particularly on one road trip in the early 2000's where we asked everyone we met if they owned a gun, and why. The people who owned guns almost unanimously claimed paranoia about being robbed by their neighbors as the reason for the guns. As Canadians we found this very interesting and sad at the same time, that americans hate/distrust each other so much to the pint that they've convinced themselves that their own neighbors/government might come to rob/kill them. We really are very lucky to live in such a peaceful country, in comparison.

i've never once felt compelled to address another person here in Slap like this, but you are the worst commenter in these forums--fuck you and fuck your dipshit assumptions about my life and experiences--you're wrong about everything you assume in the above post.

your comments just radiate a perspective of someone who hasn't been through shit (there's no way you're past your early 20s), yet can not see beyond the narrow horizons of his own limited experience in life.

and who is comparing his experiences to "low income people everywhere"? you're the only one whose posts are plagued by personal anecdotes.

and why in the fuck do you keep bringing up "trap houses"? how fucking random and in a way irrelevant to a discussion about legally owning guns and having a CPL, since "trap houses" will always be filled with guns that were derived illegally. is living in and/or near one, your one and only criterion for what justifies being armed?

here, let me assume something about you now--stop listening to bad American rap you fatuous Canuck, because it's clearly distorting your perspective of this country, which is vast, complex, and varies widely from city to city, state to state, and region to region.

since it's fresh in the news, just one of many examples of how often people need to defend themselves in the suburbs and not just in "trap houses in US ghettos"--a woman here in Michigan (Tina Talbot) was just recently released from prison (i signed the petition for her release) after shooting and killing her husband, who had been brutalizing her and her young son. "Both of her lungs were partially collapsed, her spleen was ruptured, her ribs and an arm were broken" (from the Detroit Free Press article) when she finally had to shoot him to save her and her son's life. this all happened in the suburbs, and the semi-automatic handgun she used takes anywhere from 10 to 33-round magazines, just like the AKs in my gun safe (30-round magazines are standard capacity magazines for the AK platform), just for one example of how ignorant and arbitrary proposed gun regulations are, when they come from pandering politicians who know nothing about the infinite variety of gun calibers, platforms, and configurations they're trying to regulate.

U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez in CA has been fighting California's absurd gun laws, focusing specifically on restrictions on magazine capacity. in the successful ruling temporarily lifting the ban on "high capacity" magazines back in April (it's still being disputed), Judge Benitez discussed three different home invasions that had occurred, and some were of course in suburban communities. "Judge Benitez described three home invasions, two of which ended with the female victims running out of bullets...In the third case, the pajama-clad woman with a 'high-capacity' magazine took on three armed intruders, firing at them while simultaneously calling for help on her phone...'She had no place to carry an extra magazine and no way to reload because her left hand held the phone with which she was still trying to call 911',  the judge wrote, saying she killed one attacker while two escaped."

JANUS

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #691 on: November 23, 2020, 06:04:33 AM »
Canuck?!

CANUCK!?!?!?

That’s our word! Fuck you, buddy!
If you can't handle me at my Marc Johnson, you don't deserve me at my Bobby Puleo.

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #692 on: November 23, 2020, 08:05:25 AM »
Stop being a scared bitch Wendell.

Glurmpz

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #693 on: November 23, 2020, 08:55:22 AM »


Sheesh - what an insane response to my post in which I said I could understand why he may feel the need to own a gun. 

But also - my new approach on here when it comes to disrespectful posters who resort to insults and attacks when someone doesn't 100% agree with everything they say is to just put them on ignore. I don't have time for adults who act like teenagers.

Glad to see other posters realize the incredible flaws in his logic. What a nut.

Blueabyssofthisss

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #694 on: November 23, 2020, 09:00:29 AM »

Deputy Wendell

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #695 on: November 23, 2020, 09:04:19 AM »
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Stop being a scared bitch Wendell.
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the only people i am scared of are all of the tough guys in here--kisses to every one of you, especially Glurmpz

Dirty_Dan90

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #696 on: November 23, 2020, 09:31:06 AM »
Trump pushes mongo
Biden scrapes mannys and calls it good



geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #697 on: November 23, 2020, 10:42:51 AM »
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So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
[close]

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)
[close]

well said. the dude is trolling hard.
[close]

The point of this longwinded post is to say - these debates among left leaning people are just as important or more than cross-party debates, and it's important to acknowledge the shortcomings within one's own party in order to improve it - or blow it up and start again.

So far no one wants to acknowledge any of these “shortcomings,” and instead has resorted to writing a mountain of bs imaginings about why I posted what I posted and then arguing against their own assumptions. Or they’ve asked a million patronizing, pedantic questions.

I’ll repeat this again.

There is proof that Obama’s cabinet was chosen by the CitiGroup corporation.

There is proof that Obama committed war crimes and killed innocent women and children.

There is proof that Obama’s administration is the one who built the cages that imprisoned immigrant children.

To act like the appeal of Trump is simply “white supremacy” is incredibly ignorant and short sighted.

As you mentioned in your post, Biden’s cabinet picks are disgusting and show his corporatist, Wall Street backed priorities.

But based on the previous Obama and Biden administration, should we really be surprised?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 10:56:24 AM by geneparmesan »

Enrico Pallazzo

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #698 on: November 23, 2020, 11:07:08 AM »
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So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
[close]

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)
[close]

well said. the dude is trolling hard.
[close]

The point of this longwinded post is to say - these debates among left leaning people are just as important or more than cross-party debates, and it's important to acknowledge the shortcomings within one's own party in order to improve it - or blow it up and start again.
[close]

So far no one wants to acknowledge any of these “shortcomings,” and instead has resorted to writing a mountain of bs imaginings about why I posted what I posted and then arguing against their own assumptions. Or they’ve asked a million patronizing, pedantic questions.

I’ll repeat this again.

There is proof that Obama’s whole cabinet was chosen by the CitiGroup corporation.

There is proof that Obama committed war crimes and killed innocent women and children.

There is proof that Obam’s administration is the one who built the cages that imprisoned immigrant children.

To act like the appeal of Trump is simply “white supremacy” is incredibly ignorant and short sighted.

As you mentioned in your post, Biden’s cabinet picks are disgusting and show his corporatist, Wall Street backed priorities.

But based on the previous Obama and Biden administration, should we really be surprised?

I’m in agreement with you on all of these items, but my question is - what next?

I’m not asking this rhetorically or to sound like I’m holier than thou, but are you completely checked out on American politics because of these failures of the system and the seemingly inescapable corporate influence on politicians? If so, that’s fine and completely understandable, but I guess my follow up question is - why participate in this thread? Is it just to show you know more about the evils of politicians?

There’s an abundance of absolute scumbags on both sides of party lines, no doubt. I’m a multiple time Bernie and progressive donor and strong dem-socialist supporter. I’ve been disappointed multiple times by the actions of the DNC. However, as it stands this is the system we have and I’m not going to sit on the sidelines and pout until someone else fixes it or makes it better for me.


I do have hope for a push left in the party as a result of a change in messaging and campaigning strategies, or of a third party coming into play - a revamped Green Party or People’s Party. Some great progressive policies got passed this election cycle, and some progressive candidates like Nithya Raman in Los Angeles. But this only happens with enthusiastic participation and engagement with members of the public and your peers. Complaining of a broken system while not working towards a better one is just as useless as plugging your ears and pretending nothing is wrong in the current one.

fuhkin_powahfood_kid

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #699 on: November 23, 2020, 11:32:45 AM »
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So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
[close]

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)
[close]

well said. the dude is trolling hard.
[close]

The point of this longwinded post is to say - these debates among left leaning people are just as important or more than cross-party debates, and it's important to acknowledge the shortcomings within one's own party in order to improve it - or blow it up and start again.
[close]

So far no one wants to acknowledge any of these “shortcomings,” and instead has resorted to writing a mountain of bs imaginings about why I posted what I posted and then arguing against their own assumptions. Or they’ve asked a million patronizing, pedantic questions.

I’ll repeat this again.

There is proof that Obama’s cabinet was chosen by the CitiGroup corporation.

There is proof that Obama committed war crimes and killed innocent women and children.

There is proof that Obama’s administration is the one who built the cages that imprisoned immigrant children.

To act like the appeal of Trump is simply “white supremacy” is incredibly ignorant and short sighted.

As you mentioned in your post, Biden’s cabinet picks are disgusting and show his corporatist, Wall Street backed priorities.

But based on the previous Obama and Biden administration, should we really be surprised?

Of course, they're all outright corporatist shills. Both parties are merely wings of one big Corporate party, there's no getting around it. At this point in time, however, what's the point of focusing on the war crimes committed by the Obama administration other than downplaying the destruction enacted by the Trump administration? I haven't seen anyone here say "Joe Biden is a good guy," maybe I've missed it. The Trump administration has been awful, if in no other way than the constant onslaught of bullying language and behavior, for the "average" American. If you believe otherwise, provide examples proving otherwise.
If you plant ice, you’re gonna harvest wind

geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #700 on: November 23, 2020, 12:08:00 PM »
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So I really don't understand how these things that happened under Obama made Republicans vote for Trump. Several of them are no doubt bad, although maybe not directly controlled by Obama, but others are typically things Republicans favor. So what is it? It would be great to see your answers rather than my assumptions.
[close]

This guys points aren't meant to represent why Republicans voted for Trump, they are simply poor attempts to create doubt among the left.

I'd guess this guys bullshit has five intended consequences:

1) Make the left doubt their leaders. (But this only works if we, like Trump supporters, are sycophants and hero-worship them, which I don't. I already know Democrats aren't perfect and my goal is stay on them... not to disengage or turn to the American Falange, I mean the GOP/Trump.)
 
2) Make it seem as a break between ideology and practice (i.e. compromise) is unacceptable in a democracy. (This is the way Trump tried to govern and a key reason he energized the left to vote for Biden... I voted Democrat for the first time ever due to Trump's horrible governing strategy of only governing for red states/cities... compromising with the right sucks, but Trump's inability to compromise certainly got me to the election booth.)

3) Create a "they're both equally bad" narrative to disengage left leaning voters. (It is absurd to even attempt to paint blue and red as equally bad. Trump is currently attempting to steal the election with lawsuits and subverting the voters will by hatching plans with hacks to sabotage our democracy... and most Republicans leaders aren't doing shit to protect America from this attack.)

4) Get left leaning people to defend policies that shouldn't be defended. (I won't defend them, but I will say none of them are as scary as the right's policies. It bums me out Obama deported people... but I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country where Trump ripped children away from their parents' arms as a "form of deterrence" to people seeking asylum / a better life.)

5) Attempt to place problems on Obama, Biden, etc. that weren't necessarily their fault. (Obama was blocked by McTurtle for 6 of his 8 years. Saying legislation should have been passed when Republicans blocked anything from moving forward in the Senate for 6 years is insane. Not to mention the president is the head of the executive branch, not the king of the states.)
[close]

well said. the dude is trolling hard.
[close]

The point of this longwinded post is to say - these debates among left leaning people are just as important or more than cross-party debates, and it's important to acknowledge the shortcomings within one's own party in order to improve it - or blow it up and start again.
[close]

So far no one wants to acknowledge any of these “shortcomings,” and instead has resorted to writing a mountain of bs imaginings about why I posted what I posted and then arguing against their own assumptions. Or they’ve asked a million patronizing, pedantic questions.

I’ll repeat this again.

There is proof that Obama’s whole cabinet was chosen by the CitiGroup corporation.

There is proof that Obama committed war crimes and killed innocent women and children.

There is proof that Obam’s administration is the one who built the cages that imprisoned immigrant children.

To act like the appeal of Trump is simply “white supremacy” is incredibly ignorant and short sighted.

As you mentioned in your post, Biden’s cabinet picks are disgusting and show his corporatist, Wall Street backed priorities.

But based on the previous Obama and Biden administration, should we really be surprised?
[close]

I’m in agreement with you on all of these items, but my question is - what next?

I’m not asking this rhetorically or to sound like I’m holier than thou, but are you completely checked out on American politics because of these failures of the system and the seemingly inescapable corporate influence on politicians? If so, that’s fine and completely understandable, but I guess my follow up question is - why participate in this thread? Is it just to show you know more about the evils of politicians?

There’s an abundance of absolute scumbags on both sides of party lines, no doubt. I’m a multiple time Bernie and progressive donor and strong dem-socialist supporter. I’ve been disappointed multiple times by the actions of the DNC. However, as it stands this is the system we have and I’m not going to sit on the sidelines and pout until someone else fixes it or makes it better for me.


I do have hope for a push left in the party as a result of a change in messaging and campaigning strategies, or of a third party coming into play - a revamped Green Party or People’s Party. Some great progressive policies got passed this election cycle, and some progressive candidates like Nithya Raman in Los Angeles. But this only happens with enthusiastic participation and engagement with members of the public and your peers. Complaining of a broken system while not working towards a better one is just as useless as plugging your ears and pretending nothing is wrong in the current one.

What next is we need to wake up from the ideological divisions that have been sowed by the media and join together to get our priorities straight in order to make politicians give us things in order to get our vote.

Ranked choice voting on the national level would go a long ways to getting this started.

We need people participating in their city council meetings and being aware of what the government is doing locally as well as nationally. Politicians are supposed to be representatives of the people and work for us.

Say what you will about the virus, but I'm fucking shocked by the amount of people who are willing to give over the care of their health and their personal sovereignty to a government that has a long history of lying, cheating, and poisoning us.

The fact that the first stimulus bill was passed by a voice vote says everything. These people didn't want to be linked to their vote. AOC was able to both "vote" for the bill and then criticize it later.

And let's look at who most of the money in that bill went to. It's fucking corporations again!

Overturning Citizens United would also be a great step in the right direction.

I'll be honest with you and say that I think there is a consciousness awakening happening right now, and once we reach a certain point there won't be a need for political parties any longer.

geneparmesan

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #701 on: November 23, 2020, 12:27:19 PM »
Of course, they're all outright corporatist shills. Both parties are merely wings of one big Corporate party, there's no getting around it. At this point in time, however, what's the point of focusing on the war crimes committed by the Obama administration other than downplaying the destruction enacted by the Trump administration? I haven't seen anyone here say "Joe Biden is a good guy," maybe I've missed it. The Trump administration has been awful, if in no other way than the constant onslaught of bullying language and behavior, for the "average" American. If you believe otherwise, provide examples proving otherwise.

You provide no evidence and then ask me to provide evidence?

Even going along with your assertion, I'll take bullying language all day long if it means no new wars.

Frank

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #702 on: November 23, 2020, 12:40:10 PM »

TheLurper

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #703 on: November 23, 2020, 12:46:21 PM »
The two parties were much closer to one another in the 90s than they are today. The right has gone off the rails. These false equivalencies aren't convincing to anyone outside of those who already back Trump.

Under the Obama admin we saw the creation of the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau. An agency that was neutered under Trump who wanted zero protection for workers or consumers.

Under Obama we saw an increase in legislation meant at protecting the environment and the US taking the baby step of joining the Paris Agreement. Trump undid much of the environmental rules, opened up mining on protected federal lands, shrunk the size of national parks, and tried to leave the Paris Agreement AND is currently fucking up the arctic open for the benefit of the oil companies. (The baby step of joining the toothless Paris Agreement sent Trump and the GOP into convulsions.)

Under the Obama admin we saw DACA implemented to protect immigrants who came here at a very young age and we saw the increase of policing of immigration (seems kind of like a compromise with the right). Trump tried to undo DACA immediately, blocked people with visas from coming to America because they were Muslim (protecting the freedom of religion part of the Constitution there huh?)... and Sessions and Trump thought it'd be good immigration policy to separate children from their families (some of those children still haven't been reunited with their parents).
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/family-separation-border-immigration-jeff-sessions-rod-rosenstein.html

Obama's cabinet is full of the educated and experienced centrists that one would expect to find in a government that is trying to "reach across the aisle." Trump's cabinet was full of people who didn't even know what their agency did and were completely incompetent or far right idealogues (DeVos, Perry, etc.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama%27s_Cabinet

Dick Cheney and Bush figured out ways to "legally" torture people. Obama didn't torture people, although he ordered drone strikes in a way that was wrong. Trump campaigned on making the US a torture state again; he pardoned someone who engaged in war crimes; and couldn't stop jacking off thinking about dropping the biggest non-nuclear bomb.

Trump wrote love letters to Kim Jong-un. He backed out of the Iran deal and gave the far right more power in Iran (as the moderates were the ones willing to attempt to negotiate with the West... he only made things harder for normal people in Iran and decreased the security of the world).

Obama was there immediately to help all red and blue states after Katrina. Trump told California no federal emergency funding for the wild fires and asked if he could nuke a fucking hurricane. And, left PR to die and tried to give 300 million to his friend via a corrupt deal (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/29/puerto-rico-governor-whitefish-power-contract-cancelled).

Obama was front and center when the ebola scare occurred and he declared H1N1 a national emergency in oct of 2009... throughout the Covid crisis Trump has either said, "Maybe we can inject bleach into people" or went to the golf course, he shadow team (Kushner's frat boy idiots) said, "Fuck it. It is a blue state problem. Let's do nothing" and his official team (Pence) has had people get COVID (not to mention the WH is on its 3rd wave of the COVID... and the fucking president got it and over 100 secret service officers). The fucker didn't even bother going to the recent G20 meeting about covid, but went and played some more golf.

Obama obviously not stoked about Trump winning invited him to the White House, opened up the funding Trump needed to start his transition, and told the country, "We need this guy to do well because he is running the ship that we're all on" Trump won't concede, attempted to steal the election via the courts and is now trying to subvert the will of the people through fucking with the electoral college process and creating doubt on the integrity of US elections (which have structural problems that are meant to keep people of color from voting... not Trump's white base).

“We are determined to take our country back,” Duke said from the rally, calling it a “turning point.” “We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”


Fuck this both parties are equal bullshit. One is a bit softer on issues than I would like them to be, but the other purposefully makes the world a worse place for the interests of the very few.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 01:00:00 PM by TheLurper »

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #704 on: November 23, 2020, 03:50:23 PM »
Expand Quote
Of course, they're all outright corporatist shills. Both parties are merely wings of one big Corporate party, there's no getting around it. At this point in time, however, what's the point of focusing on the war crimes committed by the Obama administration other than downplaying the destruction enacted by the Trump administration? I haven't seen anyone here say "Joe Biden is a good guy," maybe I've missed it. The Trump administration has been awful, if in no other way than the constant onslaught of bullying language and behavior, for the "average" American. If you believe otherwise, provide examples proving otherwise.
[close]

You provide no evidence and then ask me to provide evidence?

Even going along with your assertion, I'll take bullying language all day long if it means no new wars.

Come on dude, there's no absence of military  contractors holding down the US presence throughout the Middle East and rest of the world. Don't play coy.
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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #705 on: November 23, 2020, 04:07:44 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Of course, they're all outright corporatist shills. Both parties are merely wings of one big Corporate party, there's no getting around it. At this point in time, however, what's the point of focusing on the war crimes committed by the Obama administration other than downplaying the destruction enacted by the Trump administration? I haven't seen anyone here say "Joe Biden is a good guy," maybe I've missed it. The Trump administration has been awful, if in no other way than the constant onslaught of bullying language and behavior, for the "average" American. If you believe otherwise, provide examples proving otherwise.
[close]

You provide no evidence and then ask me to provide evidence?

Even going along with your assertion, I'll take bullying language all day long if it means no new wars.
[close]

Come on dude, there's no absence of military  contractors holding down the US presence throughout the Middle East and rest of the world. Don't play coy.

That's true. We should not be involved in these foreign occupations. We should remove everyone from the region and allow the people of the ME to defend themselves. As long as we are there, as a destabilizing presence, they will never be able to achieve true peace.

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #706 on: November 23, 2020, 05:21:26 PM »
The two parties were much closer to one another in the 90s than they are today. The right has gone off the rails. These false equivalencies aren't convincing to anyone outside of those who already back Trump.

Under the Obama admin we saw the creation of the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau. An agency that was neutered under Trump who wanted zero protection for workers or consumers.

Under Obama we saw an increase in legislation meant at protecting the environment and the US taking the baby step of joining the Paris Agreement. Trump undid much of the environmental rules, opened up mining on protected federal lands, shrunk the size of national parks, and tried to leave the Paris Agreement AND is currently fucking up the arctic open for the benefit of the oil companies. (The baby step of joining the toothless Paris Agreement sent Trump and the GOP into convulsions.)

Under the Obama admin we saw DACA implemented to protect immigrants who came here at a very young age and we saw the increase of policing of immigration (seems kind of like a compromise with the right). Trump tried to undo DACA immediately, blocked people with visas from coming to America because they were Muslim (protecting the freedom of religion part of the Constitution there huh?)... and Sessions and Trump thought it'd be good immigration policy to separate children from their families (some of those children still haven't been reunited with their parents).
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/family-separation-border-immigration-jeff-sessions-rod-rosenstein.html

Obama's cabinet is full of the educated and experienced centrists that one would expect to find in a government that is trying to "reach across the aisle." Trump's cabinet was full of people who didn't even know what their agency did and were completely incompetent or far right idealogues (DeVos, Perry, etc.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama%27s_Cabinet

Dick Cheney and Bush figured out ways to "legally" torture people. Obama didn't torture people, although he ordered drone strikes in a way that was wrong. Trump campaigned on making the US a torture state again; he pardoned someone who engaged in war crimes; and couldn't stop jacking off thinking about dropping the biggest non-nuclear bomb.

Trump wrote love letters to Kim Jong-un. He backed out of the Iran deal and gave the far right more power in Iran (as the moderates were the ones willing to attempt to negotiate with the West... he only made things harder for normal people in Iran and decreased the security of the world).

Obama was there immediately to help all red and blue states after Katrina. Trump told California no federal emergency funding for the wild fires and asked if he could nuke a fucking hurricane. And, left PR to die and tried to give 300 million to his friend via a corrupt deal (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/29/puerto-rico-governor-whitefish-power-contract-cancelled).

Obama was front and center when the ebola scare occurred and he declared H1N1 a national emergency in oct of 2009... throughout the Covid crisis Trump has either said, "Maybe we can inject bleach into people" or went to the golf course, he shadow team (Kushner's frat boy idiots) said, "Fuck it. It is a blue state problem. Let's do nothing" and his official team (Pence) has had people get COVID (not to mention the WH is on its 3rd wave of the COVID... and the fucking president got it and over 100 secret service officers). The fucker didn't even bother going to the recent G20 meeting about covid, but went and played some more golf.

Obama obviously not stoked about Trump winning invited him to the White House, opened up the funding Trump needed to start his transition, and told the country, "We need this guy to do well because he is running the ship that we're all on" Trump won't concede, attempted to steal the election via the courts and is now trying to subvert the will of the people through fucking with the electoral college process and creating doubt on the integrity of US elections (which have structural problems that are meant to keep people of color from voting... not Trump's white base).

“We are determined to take our country back,” Duke said from the rally, calling it a “turning point.” “We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”


Fuck this both parties are equal bullshit. One is a bit softer on issues than I would like them to be, but the other purposefully makes the world a worse place for the interests of the very few.

Amazing to see someone on a skateboard forum argue for a cabinet chosen by a corporation.

Fuck your fuck this both parties are equal bullshit.

It's time to wake up.

They are both uniquely evil in their own ways and beholden to those with money. Not we the people.

They've used the media to get us to argue against each other, instead of realizing that we have more in common than we have difference.

We should have Medicare for All.

We should have have a ubi during this time period when the government has unconstitutionally shut down our lives and our economy.

It is fucked beyond belief that Americans have been allowed to go for so long without any help from the government, and now these assholes are going on vacation while other people's mortgages go unpaid through no fault of their own.

I'm not happy with either side and I think that how we live our lives in relation to the government is going to change very soon.

We are all part of the same consciousness and it's not sustainable to be so divided like this.

Once the division falls away, all these arguments will be meaningless.

Shalom.

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #707 on: November 23, 2020, 06:07:06 PM »
As long as Republicans can weaponize faux-patriotism and faux-christian values while appealing to Neo-Nazis, and Democrats can bring nothing to the table politically other than “Vote for us because the other side is worse” there will always be political parties.

It will just be an eternal struggle of progressives trying to push a center right Democratic Party more left, and fascists trying to move a far-right party into something even more sinister.

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #708 on: December 02, 2020, 02:27:33 PM »
What’s the over/under on all of blumps statements versus a fact-check?  I’m 13 minutes in and my gut has me at 0 for all of them so far.  I’ll go with 2* factually correct statements for the whole speech.

*facts may be distorted.

Edit. +1 he is correct that he was winning but ended up losing.  I hope he doesn’t declare the Cleveland Indians the actual winner of the 2016 World Series because I got to watch games 6 and 7 minutes out my dad and I can’t give those memories back.

Edit 2 @28 minutes he blames illegals. It was sly but a quick fuck you.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 02:44:20 PM by Telly »

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #709 on: December 03, 2020, 02:37:17 PM »
Edit. +1 he is correct that he was winning but ended up losing. 

No he wasn't. He always had less votes, just there was a point when more of his had been counted. But all those votes were still sitting there and still said the same thing.
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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #710 on: December 04, 2020, 05:35:29 AM »
Expand Quote
Edit. +1 he is correct that he was winning but ended up losing. 
[close]

No he wasn't. He always had less votes, just there was a point when more of his had been counted. But all those votes were still sitting there and still said the same thing.

True, guess I was just feeling bad for the Orangeman. I’m really just excited for the rest of the sycophants to get out of the tub so Donald can play with his poop alone.

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #711 on: December 04, 2020, 09:57:52 AM »
did anyone watch all 46 minutes of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP0ixjE7JIU

i am at a loss of words

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #712 on: December 04, 2020, 10:18:15 AM »
I watched 30 plus.  When I was sure he wasn’t going to declare himself dictator I tuned out.

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #713 on: December 04, 2020, 01:34:49 PM »
Nobody in their right mind is going to watch this guy pussyache for 45 minutes about losing.

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #714 on: December 04, 2020, 02:17:41 PM »
Nobody in their right mind is going to watch this guy pussyache for 45 minutes about losing.

Yeah, unless it's your job then there absolutely no reason to watch it all.
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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #715 on: December 04, 2020, 04:07:37 PM »
I just let Stephen Colbert sum it up for me.

 You and the D00D have turned this thread into a horrible head-on-collision between a short bus full of regular kids and a van full of paraplegics.



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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #716 on: December 04, 2020, 06:34:48 PM »
It was entertaining.  Had he won it would be scary but it was a fitting address to sum up his life/career/presidency. 
Do a anybody still trip on that?  A racist, homophobe, misogynist complete loser failure businessman was elected president.  Just about every time I hear him speak or read his Twitter I spend several minutes wondering if I have actually just lost my mind or got in a bad car wreck and have been in a deep coma and have imagined everything.  And if that’s the case, could I just do hard flips too, or is my mind only willing to let so much impossibility be imaginable?

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #717 on: December 08, 2020, 10:44:25 AM »
The craziness just keeps getting more intense. Democracy seems to be crumbling in the US. I can't believe the GOP is going out of its way to invalidate votes it doesn't like this.

I also feel I should be doing something, but what that something is I have no idea.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/08/texas-lawsuit-donald-trump-election-georgia-michigan-pennsylvania-wisconsin?

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #718 on: December 08, 2020, 11:07:29 AM »
It was entertaining.  Had he won it would be scary but it was a fitting address to sum up his life/career/presidency. 
Do a anybody still trip on that?  A racist, homophobe, misogynist complete loser failure businessman was elected president.  Just about every time I hear him speak or read his Twitter I spend several minutes wondering if I have actually just lost my mind or got in a bad car wreck and have been in a deep coma and have imagined everything. And if that’s the case, could I just do hard flips too, or is my mind only willing to let so much impossibility be imaginable?

this is no new or original take on what you say here, but one question to reflect on is to what degree this is his whole point...google Trump and "gaslighting" and there's plenty to read

it seems like the ongoing efforts to challenge and discredit the election are increasingly like a whole other corresponding approach to gaslighting

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Re: Biden vs Trump
« Reply #719 on: December 08, 2020, 12:21:27 PM »
Expand Quote
The two parties were much closer to one another in the 90s than they are today. The right has gone off the rails. These false equivalencies aren't convincing to anyone outside of those who already back Trump.

Under the Obama admin we saw the creation of the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau. An agency that was neutered under Trump who wanted zero protection for workers or consumers.

Under Obama we saw an increase in legislation meant at protecting the environment and the US taking the baby step of joining the Paris Agreement. Trump undid much of the environmental rules, opened up mining on protected federal lands, shrunk the size of national parks, and tried to leave the Paris Agreement AND is currently fucking up the arctic open for the benefit of the oil companies. (The baby step of joining the toothless Paris Agreement sent Trump and the GOP into convulsions.)

Under the Obama admin we saw DACA implemented to protect immigrants who came here at a very young age and we saw the increase of policing of immigration (seems kind of like a compromise with the right). Trump tried to undo DACA immediately, blocked people with visas from coming to America because they were Muslim (protecting the freedom of religion part of the Constitution there huh?)... and Sessions and Trump thought it'd be good immigration policy to separate children from their families (some of those children still haven't been reunited with their parents).
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/family-separation-border-immigration-jeff-sessions-rod-rosenstein.html

Obama's cabinet is full of the educated and experienced centrists that one would expect to find in a government that is trying to "reach across the aisle." Trump's cabinet was full of people who didn't even know what their agency did and were completely incompetent or far right idealogues (DeVos, Perry, etc.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmations_of_Barack_Obama%27s_Cabinet

Dick Cheney and Bush figured out ways to "legally" torture people. Obama didn't torture people, although he ordered drone strikes in a way that was wrong. Trump campaigned on making the US a torture state again; he pardoned someone who engaged in war crimes; and couldn't stop jacking off thinking about dropping the biggest non-nuclear bomb.

Trump wrote love letters to Kim Jong-un. He backed out of the Iran deal and gave the far right more power in Iran (as the moderates were the ones willing to attempt to negotiate with the West... he only made things harder for normal people in Iran and decreased the security of the world).

Obama was there immediately to help all red and blue states after Katrina. Trump told California no federal emergency funding for the wild fires and asked if he could nuke a fucking hurricane. And, left PR to die and tried to give 300 million to his friend via a corrupt deal (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/29/puerto-rico-governor-whitefish-power-contract-cancelled).

Obama was front and center when the ebola scare occurred and he declared H1N1 a national emergency in oct of 2009... throughout the Covid crisis Trump has either said, "Maybe we can inject bleach into people" or went to the golf course, he shadow team (Kushner's frat boy idiots) said, "Fuck it. It is a blue state problem. Let's do nothing" and his official team (Pence) has had people get COVID (not to mention the WH is on its 3rd wave of the COVID... and the fucking president got it and over 100 secret service officers). The fucker didn't even bother going to the recent G20 meeting about covid, but went and played some more golf.

Obama obviously not stoked about Trump winning invited him to the White House, opened up the funding Trump needed to start his transition, and told the country, "We need this guy to do well because he is running the ship that we're all on" Trump won't concede, attempted to steal the election via the courts and is now trying to subvert the will of the people through fucking with the electoral college process and creating doubt on the integrity of US elections (which have structural problems that are meant to keep people of color from voting... not Trump's white base).

“We are determined to take our country back,” Duke said from the rally, calling it a “turning point.” “We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”


Fuck this both parties are equal bullshit. One is a bit softer on issues than I would like them to be, but the other purposefully makes the world a worse place for the interests of the very few.
[close]

Amazing to see someone on a skateboard forum argue for a cabinet chosen by a corporation.

Fuck your fuck this both parties are equal bullshit.

It's time to wake up.

They are both uniquely evil in their own ways and beholden to those with money. Not we the people.

They've used the media to get us to argue against each other, instead of realizing that we have more in common than we have difference.

We should have Medicare for All.

We should have have a ubi during this time period when the government has unconstitutionally shut down our lives and our economy.

It is fucked beyond belief that Americans have been allowed to go for so long without any help from the government, and now these assholes are going on vacation while other people's mortgages go unpaid through no fault of their own.

I'm not happy with either side and I think that how we live our lives in relation to the government is going to change very soon.

We are all part of the same consciousness and it's not sustainable to be so divided like this.

Once the division falls away, all these arguments will be meaningless.

Shalom.

Bingo. Both sides are equally guilty of disgusting war crimes and acts against humanity. Biden voted for the war in Iraq. A vote for Biden was a vote for killing children. It's that simple. Are we really going to hold him accountable now that he's pushing for Rahm Emmanuel to have a cabinet position? Really?

If Biden actually ends the war with Yemen, I might not think he's that bad. That said, he will probably move troops to a border nation then push them back in once the media is no longer focused on Yemen.