Author Topic: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?  (Read 1821 times)

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suckmadeck

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Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« on: November 01, 2020, 06:46:55 PM »
In short:
imo, yes.

Not so short:
DVD's have been the standard for 2 decades now and most full length skate videos that come out from big brands to independent releases use the DVD format. Of course DVD is the cheaper format but the quality is awful. On average you're getting around 6mbps with lows down at 2mbps and highs of around 10mbps (if you're lucky) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video#Data_rate

With Blu-Ray you can get a maximum bitrate of 40mbps, if you're working only with DV that's more than normal DV video (29mbps). Not only does the quality go up, but with Blu-Ray having so much space on the disk there are tons of room for extras. The Final Flare Blu-Ray has nearly 2 hours worth of content on it which should give you an idea as to the potential.

In recent times people have been craving physical releases of skate videos. Although streaming skate videos is easy, it isn't for ever. Copyright strikes, websites closing down, getting lost in the cluster-fuck of constant new media being pushed in your face, all of these things pose a possible threat to full lengths. With a physical release you actually get something. You own it. With a digital download unless it's directly saved to your hard-drive you're basically renting it and it can be easily taken away from you at any time.

Most people these days own a games console something like an Xbox One, or a PS4, hell even a PS3. All of these devices can playback Blu-Rays. If you haven't got any of these, in the UK you can pick up a bog standard Blu-Ray player for under £70. Although Blu-Ray isn't as popular as DVD, most likely due to the advent of streaming, younger people are still keeping physical media alive ( https://www.insidehook.com/article/arts-entertainment/why-millennials-refuse-to-let-go-of-physical-media-vinyl-records ) Of course DVD/Blu-Ray sales have plummeted over the last few years ( https://thedigitalbits.com/columns/my-two-cents/070720-1500 )  and skate videos sold on DVD aren't selling like they used to, people are still releasing them and people are still buying them. 

DVD's are cheaper in pretty much everyway and for most people that's the main thing and that's fine for them. For me however I want the best possible quality (if there was a way to purchase an uncompressed skate video I'd buy it) not only for personal preference as a customer/consumer but also for archival purposes.

People are still shooting skate videos on a 25 year old camera & they want to retain that look and sound that introduced them to skating and to some of their favorite skaters. For a while VHS was the best option, then it was DVD, then it was YouTube. Although early on DVD did the VX1000 some justice as to retaining resolution the bitrate was still hammered. YouTube wasn't any better with most 360p/480p uploads hit hard with heavy compression making most videos look like mush. In 2020 however things are a bit better, using the 4K trick on YouTube where you export your finished video in 4K (even if it was shot in SD or HD) then upload it to YouTube it allows more bandwidth to your video meaning less compression. There are websites like skatehype advertising it's 60p feature for SD videos however it is only a few months before a big brand comes in with a ban-hammer and gets the videos taken down or the whole website. If you plan on releasing your full length on skatehype you should probably have a backup on Vimeo or YouTube when the copyright swat team hit the website.

What I'm getting at is that if companies making skate videos actually care about quality they'd release videos not only on DVD but also on Blu-Ray. Of course this is unlikely to be the case. What is most important to the big brands is how many they will sell and of course DVD would out sell a Blu-Ray, I'm not hear to completely change people's minds on DVD's. For 95% of the skateboarding community DVD is more than enough and is preferable over a YouTube upload. But for the few that care, Blu-Ray is the way to go.

Independent video makers will likely stick to DVD as that is the cheapest for them and that's understandable but they could also offer up a HD/source quality download alongside the DVD release (maybe coming with a code inside the DVD case). Orwellian World Landscape skateboards earlier this year gave out HD downloads of their past videos for free (I believe this was due to lockdown) as well as scans of interviews and other cool stuff. Shout out to Al! http://owlskateboards.co.uk/ This method of releasing a video (with a paywall of course) is a good step in the right direction however it still has the same issues as I've already mentioned.

This is just my opinion of course and sadly I doubt Blu-Rays will make a comeback in the future of skate video releases but it's worth hoping for.


Atiba Applebum

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2020, 06:58:51 PM »
Probably not worth the minimum order size required to do a run of DVDs or blu rays. 

Everything should just be digital so you don’t put everything into a different format that can be rendered obsolete in years

suckmadeck

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2020, 07:15:40 PM »
Probably not worth the minimum order size required to do a run of DVDs or blu rays. 

Everything should just be digital so you don’t put everything into a different format that can be rendered obsolete in years

Well vinyl and cassette have made a bit of a comeback and they're technically obsolete but that's quite different to video

HORSES

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2020, 07:17:21 PM »
Who are you pitching this too? Haha.


I love a physical copy as much as the next person, but completely understand the current media landscape renders them unnecessary, it's a bummer, but I get it.


suckmadeck

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2020, 08:01:54 PM »
Who are you pitching this too? Haha.


I love a physical copy as much as the next person, but completely understand the current media landscape renders them unnecessary, it's a bummer, but I get it.

I don't know if I'm honest lol just thought I'd open it up for discussion! And you're right sadly!

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2020, 08:07:37 PM »
Expand Quote
Probably not worth the minimum order size required to do a run of DVDs or blu rays. 

Everything should just be digital so you don’t put everything into a different format that can be rendered obsolete in years
[close]

Well vinyl and cassette have made a bit of a comeback and they're technically obsolete but that's quite different to video

Cassette has?!

I feel like the Vinyl trend ebbed, but that wasn’t catering to a niche market like skaters.  Plus, a lot of new release vinyls came with a digital download code

suckmadeck

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2020, 08:19:59 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Probably not worth the minimum order size required to do a run of DVDs or blu rays. 

Everything should just be digital so you don’t put everything into a different format that can be rendered obsolete in years
[close]

Well vinyl and cassette have made a bit of a comeback and they're technically obsolete but that's quite different to video
[close]

Cassette has?!

I feel like the Vinyl trend ebbed, but that wasn’t catering to a niche market like skaters.  Plus, a lot of new release vinyls came with a digital download code

Oh for sure, maybe not the mainstream but a lot of bands on bandcamp and other places are selling cassette copies of albums now. And the whole digital code idea I think would be best for DVD's. Good enough quality for most, but if you want even better quality here's a link to a download with a copy of the video in it's highest quality.

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2020, 08:48:06 PM »
Expand Quote
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Probably not worth the minimum order size required to do a run of DVDs or blu rays. 

Everything should just be digital so you don’t put everything into a different format that can be rendered obsolete in years
[close]

Well vinyl and cassette have made a bit of a comeback and they're technically obsolete but that's quite different to video
[close]

Cassette has?!

I feel like the Vinyl trend ebbed, but that wasn’t catering to a niche market like skaters.  Plus, a lot of new release vinyls came with a digital download code
[close]

Oh for sure, maybe not the mainstream but a lot of bands on bandcamp and other places are selling cassette copies of albums now. And the whole digital code idea I think would be best for DVD's. Good enough quality for most, but if you want even better quality here's a link to a download with a copy of the video in it's highest quality.

Most feature movies do that.  It took me so long to realize (or maybe tech/cloud needed to catch up) that I didn’t need to have 200+ dvds in my apt if they just can live on iTunes, moviesanywhere

DannyDee

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2020, 08:49:02 PM »
Pretty Sweet was released in Blu-Ray.

It really only makes sense if it is all filmed in high-def camera's, and if files aren't significantly compressed during sending.

Only classic video that should be re-released in Blu-Ray is The End if someone actually wants to take the time to do it (financially it probably doesn't make sense), considering that would significantly benefit since it was filmed in 35mm if I remember correctly.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2020, 08:57:00 PM by DannyDee »

ChuckRamone

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2020, 08:54:45 PM »
Pretty Sweet was released in Blu-Ray.

It really only makes sense if it is all filmed in high-def camera's, and if files aren't significantly compressed during sending.

Only classic video that should be re-released in Blu-Ray is The End if someone actually wants to take the time to do it (financially it probably doesn't make sense), considering that would significantly benefit since it was filmed in 16mm if I remember correctly.

If they ever did that, hopefully it's with the original soundtrack too.

DannyDee

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2020, 08:56:34 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Probably not worth the minimum order size required to do a run of DVDs or blu rays. 

Everything should just be digital so you don’t put everything into a different format that can be rendered obsolete in years
[close]

Well vinyl and cassette have made a bit of a comeback and they're technically obsolete but that's quite different to video
[close]

Cassette has?!

I feel like the Vinyl trend ebbed, but that wasn’t catering to a niche market like skaters.  Plus, a lot of new release vinyls came with a digital download code
[close]

Oh for sure, maybe not the mainstream but a lot of bands on bandcamp and other places are selling cassette copies of albums now. And the whole digital code idea I think would be best for DVD's. Good enough quality for most, but if you want even better quality here's a link to a download with a copy of the video in it's highest quality.
The big thing with Vinyl is that it is arguably as high-quality as the highest quality digital technology, and its more natural sound is chased by audiophiles who spend tens of thousands on their set-ups.

Until recently, home entertainment options for watching movies outside of actually owning reels had not caught up to 35mm film. I don't think until 4K that home video options for film had caught up to the industry standard film reels. Iconic movies filmed in 70mm or 65mm like Lawrence of Arabia, 2001 Space Oddyssy, Spartacus, etc can still not be adequately captured in 4K, as they are closer to 8k in quality.

Although, to notice these differences, you need such an expensive home theatre set-up that it currently doesn't apply to many consumers.

CossRooper

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2020, 09:00:05 PM »
i agree with you. they should.

if the assumption is that people still want to own physical stuff, and want to pay filmers for stuff (which i believe to be true), videos should be on blu ray. more space, better bitrate, better menus, etc etc.

As you said, Even VX1000 miniDV footage has to be re-encoded downwards in bitrate significantly to fit on a DVD.

And with the amount of space on a Blu-Ray, one could release a whole collection of VX/standard def videos (e.g the entire static series), etc etc on one disc

I'll also say that for HD videos, most streaming hasn't really caught up in terms of bitrate. So when we are streaming something off youtube at that the youtube encoder has downscaled to 720p30, which was originally filmed on a camera in 1080p60 or whatever, there is lots and lots of quality being wasted there. With a Blu-Ray, you take the streaming part out of it (and internet bandwich and local system specs that are required), and we can watch these things in super high bitrate

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2020, 09:03:33 PM »
Expand Quote
Pretty Sweet was released in Blu-Ray.

It really only makes sense if it is all filmed in high-def camera's, and if files aren't significantly compressed during sending.

Only classic video that should be re-released in Blu-Ray is The End if someone actually wants to take the time to do it (financially it probably doesn't make sense), considering that would significantly benefit since it was filmed in 16mm if I remember correctly.
[close]

If they ever did that, hopefully it's with the original soundtrack too.

Yeah that was the bummer with the DVD release

DannyDee

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2020, 09:13:50 PM »
i agree with you. they should.

if the assumption is that people still want to own physical stuff, and want to pay filmers for stuff (which i believe to be true), videos should be on blu ray. more space, better bitrate, better menus, etc etc.

As you said, Even VX1000 miniDV footage has to be re-encoded downwards in bitrate significantly to fit on a DVD.

And with the amount of space on a Blu-Ray, one could release a whole collection of VX/standard def videos (e.g the entire static series), etc etc on one disc

I'll also say that for HD videos, most streaming hasn't really caught up in terms of bitrate. So when we are streaming something off youtube at that the youtube encoder has downscaled to 720p30, which was originally filmed on a camera in 1080p60 or whatever, there is lots and lots of quality being wasted there. With a Blu-Ray, you take the streaming part out of it (and internet bandwich and local system specs that are required), and we can watch these things in super high bitrate
The issue I've heard with skatevideos/HD is that a lot of it is filmed by multiple people, so a lot of stuff has been compressed to conveniently send the files. Its not like Studio Films where everything is maintained on hand or very carefully transferred at the desired bit-rate. Just look at any HD project, and see how many filmers they use.

CossRooper

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2020, 03:34:42 PM »
The issue I've heard with skatevideos/HD is that a lot of it is filmed by multiple people, so a lot of stuff has been compressed to conveniently send the files. Its not like Studio Films where everything is maintained on hand or very carefully transferred at the desired bit-rate. Just look at any HD project, and see how many filmers they use.

Totally valid point.

Who are you pitching this too? Haha.

Also a valid point. Nobody who actually makes videos gives a shit.

suckmadeck

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2020, 04:10:34 PM »
Expand Quote
i agree with you. they should.

if the assumption is that people still want to own physical stuff, and want to pay filmers for stuff (which i believe to be true), videos should be on blu ray. more space, better bitrate, better menus, etc etc.

As you said, Even VX1000 miniDV footage has to be re-encoded downwards in bitrate significantly to fit on a DVD.

And with the amount of space on a Blu-Ray, one could release a whole collection of VX/standard def videos (e.g the entire static series), etc etc on one disc

I'll also say that for HD videos, most streaming hasn't really caught up in terms of bitrate. So when we are streaming something off youtube at that the youtube encoder has downscaled to 720p30, which was originally filmed on a camera in 1080p60 or whatever, there is lots and lots of quality being wasted there. With a Blu-Ray, you take the streaming part out of it (and internet bandwich and local system specs that are required), and we can watch these things in super high bitrate
[close]
The issue I've heard with skatevideos/HD is that a lot of it is filmed by multiple people, so a lot of stuff has been compressed to conveniently send the files. Its not like Studio Films where everything is maintained on hand or very carefully transferred at the desired bit-rate. Just look at any HD project, and see how many filmers they use.

Not all the time. Most places will have a business account setup so they have large amounts of cloud storage so that they can send uncompressed files easily. Really it depends on how fast someones internet is!

HORSES

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2020, 04:22:22 PM »
Expand Quote
The issue I've heard with skatevideos/HD is that a lot of it is filmed by multiple people, so a lot of stuff has been compressed to conveniently send the files. Its not like Studio Films where everything is maintained on hand or very carefully transferred at the desired bit-rate. Just look at any HD project, and see how many filmers they use.
[close]

Totally valid point.

Expand Quote
Who are you pitching this too? Haha.
[close]

Also a valid point. Nobody who actually makes videos gives a shit.


I actually asked a company owner back in 2018 re: if they were going to put out their full length in a physical format and they said "haven't even thought about it".

suckmadeck

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2020, 04:31:05 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
The issue I've heard with skatevideos/HD is that a lot of it is filmed by multiple people, so a lot of stuff has been compressed to conveniently send the files. Its not like Studio Films where everything is maintained on hand or very carefully transferred at the desired bit-rate. Just look at any HD project, and see how many filmers they use.
[close]

Totally valid point.

Expand Quote
Who are you pitching this too? Haha.
[close]

Also a valid point. Nobody who actually makes videos gives a shit.
[close]


I actually asked a company owner back in 2018 re: if they were going to put out their full length in a physical format and they said "haven't even thought about it".

That's depressing. I understand that it's cheaper to just release it online, but it'd be nice to get at least a small-ish run of DVD's/Blu-Rays.

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2020, 04:40:59 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
The issue I've heard with skatevideos/HD is that a lot of it is filmed by multiple people, so a lot of stuff has been compressed to conveniently send the files. Its not like Studio Films where everything is maintained on hand or very carefully transferred at the desired bit-rate. Just look at any HD project, and see how many filmers they use.
[close]

Totally valid point.

Expand Quote
Who are you pitching this too? Haha.
[close]

Also a valid point. Nobody who actually makes videos gives a shit.
[close]


I actually asked a company owner back in 2018 re: if they were going to put out their full length in a physical format and they said "haven't even thought about it".
[close]

That's depressing. I understand that it's cheaper to just release it online, but it'd be nice to get at least a small-ish run of DVD's/Blu-Rays.

I believe 500 is the minimum run

suckmadeck

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2020, 05:10:53 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
The issue I've heard with skatevideos/HD is that a lot of it is filmed by multiple people, so a lot of stuff has been compressed to conveniently send the files. Its not like Studio Films where everything is maintained on hand or very carefully transferred at the desired bit-rate. Just look at any HD project, and see how many filmers they use.
[close]

Totally valid point.

Expand Quote
Who are you pitching this too? Haha.
[close]

Also a valid point. Nobody who actually makes videos gives a shit.
[close]


I actually asked a company owner back in 2018 re: if they were going to put out their full length in a physical format and they said "haven't even thought about it".
[close]

That's depressing. I understand that it's cheaper to just release it online, but it'd be nice to get at least a small-ish run of DVD's/Blu-Rays.
[close]

I believe 500 is the minimum run

Yeah that'd probably be quite expensive.

HORSES

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2020, 06:21:53 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
The issue I've heard with skatevideos/HD is that a lot of it is filmed by multiple people, so a lot of stuff has been compressed to conveniently send the files. Its not like Studio Films where everything is maintained on hand or very carefully transferred at the desired bit-rate. Just look at any HD project, and see how many filmers they use.
[close]

Totally valid point.

Expand Quote
Who are you pitching this too? Haha.
[close]

Also a valid point. Nobody who actually makes videos gives a shit.
[close]


I actually asked a company owner back in 2018 re: if they were going to put out their full length in a physical format and they said "haven't even thought about it".
[close]

That's depressing. I understand that it's cheaper to just release it online, but it'd be nice to get at least a small-ish run of DVD's/Blu-Rays.


Yeah, that's all good and well for the select few who want them, but the company is going to be stuck with the bulk of them.


ChuckRamone

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2020, 09:43:53 PM »
It seems like the era of physical skate videos is coming to an end. Very few new videos get a DVD or VHS release.

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2020, 12:06:49 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
The issue I've heard with skatevideos/HD is that a lot of it is filmed by multiple people, so a lot of stuff has been compressed to conveniently send the files. Its not like Studio Films where everything is maintained on hand or very carefully transferred at the desired bit-rate. Just look at any HD project, and see how many filmers they use.
[close]

Totally valid point.

Expand Quote
Who are you pitching this too? Haha.
[close]

Also a valid point. Nobody who actually makes videos gives a shit.
[close]


I actually asked a company owner back in 2018 re: if they were going to put out their full length in a physical format and they said "haven't even thought about it".
[close]

That's depressing. I understand that it's cheaper to just release it online, but it'd be nice to get at least a small-ish run of DVD's/Blu-Rays.
[close]


Yeah, that's all good and well for the select few who want them, but the company is going to be stuck with the bulk of them.

Hah yeah I was stuck with enough of my thesis film and I was giving that shit away for free

OwlGreen

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2020, 01:42:55 AM »
The DVD consortium never required content owners and replicators pay fees to use their logo. Blu-ray has always required licensing fees to use their logo and their encryption technology. Until a few years ago, these fees added up to around $5000 per title. I'm unclear on what the licensing fees are today. There's something called CPA-Lite which costs $500/year for 5 years. If your revenue is less than $100 million/year you can qualify. If you pay this, I don't know if you're allowed to put out as many titles as you'd like. I would hope so.

eastenders

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2020, 03:51:25 AM »
Thought this was a thread bump from 2010. Blu-ray's dead as vert.

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2020, 04:50:42 AM »
Thought this was a thread bump from 2010. Blu-ray's dead as vert.

Vert is kinda coming back via IG

imuseless

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2020, 05:06:54 AM »
It seems like the era of physical skate videos is coming to an end. Very few new videos get a DVD or VHS release.

Hope there's gonna be a revival of VHS soon!

coyote2425

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2020, 05:07:47 AM »
Pretty Sweet was released in Blu-Ray.

It really only makes sense if it is all filmed in high-def camera's, and if files aren't significantly compressed during sending.

Only classic video that should be re-released in Blu-Ray is The End if someone actually wants to take the time to do it (financially it probably doesn't make sense), considering that would significantly benefit since it was filmed in 35mm if I remember correctly.

I bought Pretty Sweet on Blu-ray. Divisive as the video may be, it looked sick on Blu-ray. It was mostly a novelty purchase ("never seen a skate video like that").

bataaard

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2020, 12:24:37 PM »
The issue I've heard with skatevideos/HD is that a lot of it is filmed by multiple people, so a lot of stuff has been compressed to conveniently send the files. Its not like Studio Films where everything is maintained on hand or very carefully transferred at the desired bit-rate. Just look at any HD project, and see how many filmers they use.
Big brands ask for the uncompressed files for their videos, or sometimes prores files. It's 2020, we have fast internet, and can send it easily.

I made a DVD in 200, the minimum run was 500, and quite expensive. I would not even sell 10 copies these days.
Computers comes without the dvd/bluray player. I feel like almost nobody cares about the disc format.

Passport released their video on a custom usb key in a nice box. it seems like a good alternative but I'm not sure they sold so well.
https://www.passportal.com/products/pass-port-presents-kitsch?_pos=1&_sid=df606fbe5&_ss=r
« Last Edit: November 03, 2020, 12:51:12 PM by bataaard »

suckmadeck

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Re: Should skate videos be released on Blu-Ray?
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2020, 03:39:35 PM »
The DVD consortium never required content owners and replicators pay fees to use their logo. Blu-ray has always required licensing fees to use their logo and their encryption technology. Until a few years ago, these fees added up to around $5000 per title. I'm unclear on what the licensing fees are today. There's something called CPA-Lite which costs $500/year for 5 years. If your revenue is less than $100 million/year you can qualify. If you pay this, I don't know if you're allowed to put out as many titles as you'd like. I would hope so.

Damn I didn't know this! I know you have to pay to have the USB logo on a box but I didn't know you had to pay for Blu-Ray encryption!