Author Topic: Stable setup advice  (Read 1148 times)

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Fat Tony

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Stable setup advice
« on: November 17, 2020, 09:02:05 PM »
Hi everybody,

Iíve been lurking for most of this year and finally decided to join and ask a few questions. I feel like my current setup isnít as stable as it could be. My skating has progressed due to getting out there a few times a week for the last many months, but I canít help thinking if I had a more solid feeling ride that I could be doing better.

Iím currently on an 8.18 baker classic og mellow concave and I donít love it. I think maybe the tail is too short and maybe the concave is flatter than Iíd like. My deck before that was an 8.25 skate mafia which I actually just set back up to try again. 10 years ago when I last gave skating a shot I mostly rode zeros or elements and liked them enough. Iím thinking of going with a hockey or FA deck next as I think the fuller shape might help with stability.

I had thunders back then which never turned, and Iím currently on Indy 139s. They turn nicely, but sort of too easily, like I donít feel stable and will often step off when doing 180s. Iím thinking theyíre too high and also not wide enough for 8.25 decks, so Iím considering getting wider trucks, maybe ace or venture. Also have bones hard bushings and 1/8 risers.

Wheels are 54mm 99a conical fulls formula fours and bearings are bones Swiss, happy with both of those.

Open to any suggestions on deck shapes, sizes, and brands. Especially looking to try a different truck as I think that is the main culprit. Took me a while to get comfortable with the indys and maybe Iím still not completely, even though Iíve had them 4 months.

Thanks in advance and apologies for the essay.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 09:27:30 PM by Fat Tony »

JB77

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2020, 05:58:20 AM »
The wider the setup, the more stable.  You might try an 8.5Ē deck with Indy 159ís and swap the stock bushings with harder ones.  Could fix you up.

baustin

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2020, 06:18:18 AM »
If you want stable, Indy and Ace are anything but. I would recommend you try out some Venture or Thunders in the same width as your deck or 1/8-1/4Ē wider. A full/square shape deck if you can find one, and youíll be feeling much more stable.

FrozenIndustries

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2020, 06:26:38 AM »
A huge thing for me with stability is bushings. On Indy especially, I would recommend swapping the stocks for a harder barrel bushing...92-96 are all great, though the latter has a hell of a break in period. The Indy aftermarkets are super nice and some harder bushings will make it so you have to work a little harder to turn without actually changing the geometry.

Give that a try before you go out and buy some new trucks and go down that rabbit hole. Also, you might feel better on the Skatemafia because it has a longer wheelbase or overall length. I would measure the two and see how they compare.

jay_nev

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2020, 06:35:28 AM »
Good points to compare length and wheelbase. Longer wheelbase will feel more "stable"

How tall are you/weight? That plays in to bushings and overall set up stability.

I'd consider checking out the set up thread to see combos, like this would be a nice stable set up. 8.75" trucks, 8.5" deck..

I cleaned house and played Santa lately. Now I am starting fresh with this and a new cruiser this weekend.

5boro 8.5 w/Jessup
Venture 6.1


RichardBarkley

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2020, 07:14:08 AM »
Setup venture los and you'll notice the difference

ballintoohard

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2020, 08:22:24 AM »
I took an equally long break from skating and had lots of issues at first. Here is what you need to consider:

1. If you are on standard Indys theyíre 55mm and your risers are 3mm. Your trucks a decade ago were likely around 47-48, so youíre 1cm higher! First lose the risers and perhaps try a truck that is 50-53mm like Thunder or Indy with a forged baseplate. Go for a 144-149, I personally like 144/44/5.6/148.

2. Your decks likely were shorter and had a shorter wheelbase. Iíd wager your Baker isnít far off but Iíd measure both boards. For me too short feels tippy with modern high trucks, too long feels heavy and my pop is horrible. 14.25 is about mid range so Iíd look for a deck around there and then calibrate.

3. I remember Elements having a lot of concave, which I hated and made me feel more unstable. I loved older Girl or Alien decks, but mostly I liked things that tended to be flat width wise and have moderate kicks. An FA/Hockey will feel really steep I bet. Iíd trend towards a brand made by BBS in a standard popsicle and fuck with the variables above then Iíd go for more square or novel shapes. When I first tried an FA it felt weird and Iíd often land then slip out from too much pressure on the kicks. That plus short wheelbase didnít help much.

Wizard0f0dds

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2020, 09:37:24 AM »
I ride Ace myself and although they are my favorite trucks, I wouldn't recommend them if you think your indys turn too easily. If you're looking for a stable ride, I would say Venture or Thunders would work best, but I would mostly recommend Venture, as I think Thunders might be a little too "twitchy" of a turn maybe.

I would recommend venture 5.8 (8.5 inches) on a 8.25 or 8.38 deck. I see some have mentioned  venture 6.1 on a 8.5, but 8.5 might be a little harder to flip so your flip tricks might feel harder to do.

The wider the trucks, the more stable your ride will feel, but like I said, flip tricks require more effort so I wouldn't go too big either.

Let us know what you decided to do! And most of all, keep having fun! ;)

Sluggloaph

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2020, 09:49:48 AM »
If you've lurked here that long, you kno these fellas are legit. Certainly go in on that setup thread.
Have fun, obviously.
And just get ventures, if you can, it was kinda dick for me to get em lika year ago.
Whatever. Scum co has deep concave as well.
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moonordie

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2020, 09:55:10 AM »
Polar 8.5
Venture 5.8
F4 99 conical full 54mm
Swiss

skateandphotos

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2020, 12:09:55 PM »
One of my favorite "stable" setups is an aws or habitat 8.5 thunder 149 and formula fours
alien shapes are very full and have a shovel nose which makes my ollies super high stable and consitant

DarkPools

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2020, 12:49:32 PM »
Curious what your shoe size is? I like to compare that to board size and feel to help mitigate the tiny or unstable feeling when the board is too small for your feet.

My personal recommendation is to stick with Indy Trucks but get the 144 or 149 size in the forged baseplate, which is 53.5mm in height versus the standard of 55m height. Also, if it's turning too easily, you may need a slightly harder bushing durometer to be just responsive enough but not sloppy loose. I'd recommend the Orange 92A (Medium) or Blue 92A (Medium-Hard) in the Cone Barrel style.

144 - fits 8.18 - 8.38 comfortably.
149 - fits 8.25 - 8.75 comfortably. I used to run 149 on 8.25 and had no real issues.  Either of these should be fine if 8.25-8.38 is your ideal size.
Also, ditch the risers, Indys stock height are perfect with 54mm Conical Fulls, that may be the main issue with feeling like the board is too tall and not as stable.

Boards: Alien Workshop, Habitat, Polar, FA/Hockey, WKND all have fuller shapes (on the nose, while some of their tails are stubby and others more pointy) I'd pick from any of these to try. Don't think you'll be disappointed  :)

Colt 45 Cannon


IpathCats

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2020, 01:14:05 PM »
Get at least an 8.25 with at least a 14.25 wheelbase, linger wb = more stable. Throw some thunders or ventures in there with some 99a radials or conical fulls, and you'll have a pretty stable setup.
.....Nah

shredslap

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2020, 03:06:12 PM »
You want stable? Go 8.62-8.75 Anti-Hero (Cardiel shape) with 149 Indy's, and some 58mm F4 Spitfires...

Mantracker

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2020, 03:24:52 PM »
Ditto going for a longer wheelbase to feel more stable - Try Baker B2, they have a wider nose and tail and a fuller shape. Also give REAL a shot, they have multiple 8.38 with long wheelbases. Would be the best happy medium between the current deck size you ride and the larger 8.5+ decks other are recommending.

I think the wheelbase and your trucks affect the feel of the board the most. Keep in mind with larger trucks you'll wheelbite easier, which makes me feel less stable and less in control of my board. That could just be my personal preference though.

Also try a slightly softer and larger wheel - maybe Spitfire 97 duro in 54mm or a comparable wheel

Harder bushings in the trucks you currently have should make a huge difference. Buy some bones hard bushings.

DA BIG BODY BENZ

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2020, 03:41:55 PM »
ive got a 7.75 (31.5x14) workshop full shape, with venture 5.0 lo (bones hard bushings) and 48 mm spitfire bighead classics and it is very stable and probably my favorite set up ive ever had.

Kneesles

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2020, 04:28:02 PM »
Just get some indy black barrel bushings, remove the risers and maybe try a smaller wheel. Go for 50-52mm wheels and use 2 washers on the inside of each wheel to push them out further to the edge. That will make the same board/truck combo feel much more stable and it doesn't cost much to try.

Xen

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2020, 05:11:46 PM »
Lower, and wider. 14.25"+ Wheelbase

Probably the best setups I've had were 8.3s with either Thunder forged or Indy forged 149s or 144/148s with a 14.353 WB + 52mm wheels + Medium kick and cave.

Recently an 8.5" with a 14.25"WB+149 Ventures did the trick.

Currently riding an 8.25" Polar (14.3" WB, and Wheel Wells)+ ACE 44s + 50mm wheels - it's sooooo stable and comfy.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 07:35:45 PM by Xen »

Fat Tony

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2020, 08:32:27 PM »
Thanks for the advice everyone, much appreciated!

I left off some details I should have included so here it goes. Iím 5í9Ē, 200lbs, size 9.5 shoe. I do have the bones hard bushings installed and never even tried the stock Indy as I read they were crap enough on here. I think my weight and the board height are a losing combo, so was thinking lower trucks and might as well try a new brand too.

Went out today on the skate mafia and loved it compared to the baker Iíd been on lately. Wheelbase is 14.25 on the SM and 14 on the baker, so probably something to that. Hockey and FA do seem to have shorter wheelbases, so maybe thatís not what I want. Figured a shorter wheelbase would give higher ollies, but if itís harder to land due to instability, that doesnít work.

Not sure if I want to go all the way up to an 8.5, but wider and lower trucks do sound like the way to go. Guess venture is preferred over ace, if looking for stability.

Ok

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2020, 08:18:20 AM »
Iíd just stick where you are at, equipment wise. Youíve got decent stuff, itís approximately the Ďrightí size: itís not your setup. Debating the subtle nuances of different equipment combinations is far from a hard science, there arenít any established parameters with sizes, ratios, body measurements....itís just a bunch of us throwing out ideas, and neurotic sounding ramblings.
14Ē wb is less stable than 14.25Ē, but youíll adjust. Indys are less stable than ventures, but again, youíll adjust. If youíve had a big layoff from skating, just skate, skate for distance, fun, just get out there. Buying new shit ainít it.

-sincerely, a person who has tons of equipment and isnít any closer to finding the right combo.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2020, 04:07:00 PM »

I do have the bones hard bushings installed and never even tried the stock Indy as I read they were crap enough on here.

Wheelbase is 14.25 on the SM and 14 on the baker, so probably something to that.



Indy bushings are soft.

Are the trucks tight enough / no wheelbite?  Using the metal washers, or even putting the stock Indy smaller washer under the bottom Bones bushing and the thin flat one on the top of the upper bushing will give you a more stable setup on those trucks too.  A lot of people ride Bones bushings without metal washers, but they actually help on standard Indy trucks of any size.

Most boards have a 14.25 to 14.38 wheelbase in 8.25 sizes anyway, and decent skate shops should let you stand on boards before you buy them, if you can make it in to a local shop, or more than one so you get a good view of what is out there.  DLX shapes are awesome (yes I am totally biased) on good wood and have FULL shapes too, which you have probably seen in this thread:

https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=85076.840


One thing I haven't seen in questions is what do you skate and what do you want to do?  Flip / tech tricks are easier on smaller boards, but if you want more stability first and foremost, a bit bigger and wider board (with wider trucks) will be a lot easier to build up strength and skill and then other tricks will come from that, rather than the smaller lighter board that flips easily with less control.  If you are more keen just to roll around, a bigger board will definitely be easier.




I talk too much.  Sorry.

TumKayo

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2020, 04:38:08 PM »
Venture lo trucks are stable AF! They basically don't turn. They make my 7.8" n 14" wb DGK board feel less squirrely than my 9" popsicle with 15" wb on 169s. Terrible for carving, but great if you want stability..

rocklobster

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2020, 05:59:05 PM »
Venture lo trucks are stable AF! They basically don't turn. They make my 7.8" n 14" wb DGK board feel less squirrely than my 9" popsicle with 15" wb on 169s. Terrible for carving, but great if you want stability..

Really? New Ventures with fresh bushings don't turn but after 1.5 sessions they soften up and turn reasonably well. Never as good as Thunders or Indys but sufficiently, but I couldn't want to carve transition on them. I tried them with Bones soft bushings (blue), turned excellently at the expense of stability.
Did any of you guys ever notice that if you took off the end "er" from his name, moved the "b" to after the "i" and then added an "l" to the "b" that you just moved, you'd spell "Bible"?

TumKayo

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2020, 07:37:05 PM »
Expand Quote
Venture lo trucks are stable AF! They basically don't turn. They make my 7.8" n 14" wb DGK board feel less squirrely than my 9" popsicle with 15" wb on 169s. Terrible for carving, but great if you want stability..
[close]

Really? New Ventures with fresh bushings don't turn but after 1.5 sessions they soften up and turn reasonably well. Never as good as Thunders or Indys but sufficiently, but I couldn't want to carve transition on them. I tried them with Bones soft bushings (blue), turned excellently at the expense of stability.

Do you have the low ones? The regular height ventures carve much better, more like an Indy. I'm 222lbs, have a set of V 5.0 lows with stock bushings and the nuts as loose as they'll go, and I still have to tic tac. I can't carve them, but I love that for certain applications. I have about 6 hours on them.

They are super stable feeling, they make small boards feel stable. They are very confidence inspiring for setting up a trick, but landing them clean is harder because the tighter truck as standard is harder to manipulate IMO.

All this talk makes me want a pair of 5.2 los to, for 8" decks.

Fat Tony

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2020, 07:50:20 PM »
I do have the bottom washer on, but not the top. Theyíre Indy hollows too btw, so not forged. And theyíre as tight as a virgin on prom night.

Still working up to kick flips, so definitely not as good as many here. Thereís really no reason I couldnít land a kick flip or pop shove it tomorrow, other than commitment and not feeling comfortable on the board. So mostly skating street or in a skatepark, no ramps or bowls. Did some pretty decent ollies on my giant 9.5 or so cruiser today just riding around, which is higher than my normal setup, so maybe the width isnít a bad thing either.

Do they make 5.8 ventures in a low? Iíve searched the thread and various sites, including venture, and it doesnít seem so.

I do appreciate that I donít want to end up with tons of extra stuff Iíll never use. I feel bad trying to move on from these trucks that are only a few months old, which for someone who canít grind, are basically brand new.


Mbrimson88

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2020, 08:11:21 PM »
I do have the bottom washer on, but not the top. Theyíre Indy hollows too btw, so not forged. And theyíre as tight as a virgin on prom night.

Still working up to kick flips, so definitely not as good as many here. Thereís really no reason I couldnít land a kick flip or pop shove it tomorrow, other than commitment and not feeling comfortable on the board. So mostly skating street or in a skatepark, no ramps or bowls. Did some pretty decent ollies on my giant 9.5 or so cruiser today just riding around, which is higher than my normal setup, so maybe the width isnít a bad thing either.

Do they make 5.8 ventures in a low? Iíve searched the thread and various sites, including venture, and it doesnít seem so.

I do appreciate that I donít want to end up with tons of extra stuff Iíll never use. I feel bad trying to move on from these trucks that are only a few months old, which for someone who canít grind, are basically brand new.

Thankfully there is nothing in skateboarding that says you have to do anything - skate within your own personal limits while you are comfortable and do what you are able.

I guess I have helped a lot of people who bought wrong size product with trade in options, but I also understand I am not the common majority.  Shops are usually not at all interested in trade ins when they buy the product at wholesale prices.  That said, you might be able to move anything barely used (eg trucks barely grinded) for a good amount to someone else in a private sale, which will help with the upgrade to a more comfortable size or even a straight swap if someone else had more worn in but still good wider trucks.

Anyone (be it shop guy or anyone else) trying to push you into a sale is not doing you any good either, so take your time and work things out, but if there is anyone else you know who has a wider board you can have a roll on, or even see what else you have that would feel different you can set up, it definitely helps to work out exactly what would be a good fit.


I talk too much.  Sorry.

Fat Tony

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2020, 08:39:12 PM »
Yeah, I wish there was a way to check out some of the gear in person, but not really possible nowadays. My local would be uprise in Chicago and they are curbside only. Even if they were open like normal Iím not sure theyíd set up some trucks for me to stand on and check out. So sort of trial and error, and virtual.

I think Iíll try a full shape, probably dlx or at least bbs, and some venture trucks.

Donít want to blame the equipment as Iím really not very good, but I think the instability is also not doing me any favors.

Really appreciate all the feedback and advice.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2020, 09:49:46 PM »
Yeah, I wish there was a way to check out some of the gear in person, but not really possible nowadays. My local would be uprise in Chicago and they are curbside only. Even if they were open like normal Iím not sure theyíd set up some trucks for me to stand on and check out. So sort of trial and error, and virtual.


Damn, I forget we are pretty much covid free and back to normal in Australia.  Yes that would be a pain with not being able to do anything like that.

Any day I can get out and roll is a good day, no matter what I end up doing.  The older I get, the harder it is to get back up though.


I talk too much.  Sorry.

rocklobster

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2020, 10:53:00 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Venture lo trucks are stable AF! They basically don't turn. They make my 7.8" n 14" wb DGK board feel less squirrely than my 9" popsicle with 15" wb on 169s. Terrible for carving, but great if you want stability..
[close]

Really? New Ventures with fresh bushings don't turn but after 1.5 sessions they soften up and turn reasonably well. Never as good as Thunders or Indys but sufficiently, but I couldn't want to carve transition on them. I tried them with Bones soft bushings (blue), turned excellently at the expense of stability.
[close]

Do you have the low ones? The regular height ventures carve much better, more like an Indy. I'm 222lbs, have a set of V 5.0 lows with stock bushings and the nuts as loose as they'll go, and I still have to tic tac. I can't carve them, but I love that for certain applications. I have about 6 hours on them.

They are super stable feeling, they make small boards feel stable. They are very confidence inspiring for setting up a trick, but landing them clean is harder because the tighter truck as standard is harder to manipulate IMO.

All this talk makes me want a pair of 5.2 los to, for 8" decks.

Yup, ride the 5.2 Lo V-Hollow Lo and 5.6 V-Hollow too. The Los perform best on boards with steep kicks for me. too mellow and the board refuses to go airborne. Pinch on them is fantastic too, nothing like locking in a long smith or crooked grind on them. They turn sufficiently, will need to tic tak if I'm turning sharply, but I would willingly trade that for better pinch on my grinds.
Did any of you guys ever notice that if you took off the end "er" from his name, moved the "b" to after the "i" and then added an "l" to the "b" that you just moved, you'd spell "Bible"?

Fat Tony

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Re: Stable setup advice
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2020, 05:59:46 AM »
So I have an update. Thanks to Mbrimson88, I put my bottom washers on (closest to the board) and it made a huge difference. Itís 5x more stable at least. I have to tic tak to turn if I tighten them all the way down. I never put those on since what I read in the trucks thread said not to, and if you have more balance and skills than I do I could see that working for you. Not sure how a washer did so much, but it did.

Of course I already ordered venture 5.8s before trying that, so I guess now I can try a wider board as well if I wanted, but these are plenty tight and stable now, even being 8Ē on an 8.25Ē board.

So if anyone else is reading this and looking to stabilize their board, make sure you have both sets of washers on your trucks.