Greco's New Film “Glass Carousel”

[heckler]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

Better question: how is it not?

[pizzafliptofakie]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

"Stop filming me"
*keeps filming them*


c'mon.

[mattchew]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

[close]

Better question: how is it not?

I literally answered that in the post you quoted. So better question, dont deflect and explain how this is exploitative. And yes I’m aware we have had this exact debate already years ago and you took an L. People do it all the time in videos but this is not an example of it.

[heckler]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

[close]

Better question: how is it not?

[close]

I literally answered that in the post you quoted. So better question, dont deflect and explain how this is exploitative. And yes I’m aware we have had this exact debate already years ago and you took an L. People do it all the time in videos but this is not an example of it.

You literally did not. You just explained why you think it's so filming homelessness is so integral for a skate video, as if there's no other way to convey "the world is fucked and some people have it rough" than putting a human being's lowest moments on blast without their consent, then you said it's bad when some videos do it poorly, and then said this isn't it. You didn't explain what makes Jim Greco's video so overwhelmingly different, nor did you explain how these shots are not exploitative of the people being filmed.

Now, please explain why the exploitation of people without homes and people dealing with addiction is good when Jim Greco does it in this video, but why others who exploit these people with more or less the same tactics in other videos is bad. While you're at it, please explain what the overarching "message" of this video is that couldn't be properly conveyed without individual, identifying shots of homeless people shot without their consent.

I remember our conversation in the past and while I don't remember an outcome (because I'm not a nine year old who qualifies discussions as "Ws" or "Ls"), I see you certainly still think of yourself as the smartest person in the room at all times.

Edit: while we're at it, feel free to respond to @pizzafliptofakie's point as well.

[Style Police]

I'm backing Gonzgreco.

[Frank and Fred]

Super subjective. I don't think there is really a way to convince each other whether this was homeless exploitation or not. Depends on your experience, comfort levels and interpretation. I don't think this is an argument that can be 'won.'

[pizzafliptofakie]

Super subjective. I don't think there is really a way to convince each other whether this was homeless exploitation or not. Depends on your experience, comfort levels and interpretation. I don't think this is an argument that can be 'won.'

They were literally antagonizing a guy to the point where he had to chase them away. In what universe is that not exploitation?

[companguero]

There's something very decisive about the body language with the little lighter toss to thigh mount.

[mattchew]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

[close]

Better question: how is it not?

[close]

I literally answered that in the post you quoted. So better question, dont deflect and explain how this is exploitative. And yes I’m aware we have had this exact debate already years ago and you took an L. People do it all the time in videos but this is not an example of it.

[close]

You literally did not. You just explained why you think it's so filming homelessness is so integral for a skate video, as if there's no other way to convey "the world is fucked and some people have it rough" than putting a human being's lowest moments on blast without their consent, then you said it's bad when some videos do it poorly, and then said this isn't it. You didn't explain what makes Jim Greco's video so overwhelmingly different, nor did you explain how these shots are not exploitative of the people being filmed.

Now, please explain why the exploitation of people without homes and people dealing with addiction is good when Jim Greco does it in this video, but why others who exploit these people with more or less the same tactics in other videos is bad. While you're at it, please explain what the overarching "message" of this video is that couldn't be properly conveyed without individual, identifying shots of homeless people shot without their consent.

I remember our conversation in the past and while I don't remember an outcome (because I'm not a nine year old who qualifies discussions as "Ws" or "Ls"), I see you certainly still think of yourself as the smartest person in the room at all times.

Edit: while we're at it, feel free to respond to @pizzafliptofakie's point as well.

I absolutely don't think it's integral to film homeless people for a skate video and never said that. I have continually reiterated that most people do this very poorly but that does not mean that every single instance is shitty as you seem to think. There are numerous positive (as well as negative) examples of interacting with street people in almost every Sabotage and GX video for instance. Being out on the street and filming your surroundings and the general culture of the street isn't inherently exploitative. It's good it makes you uncomfortable, it should.

I am definitely not the smartest guy in the room but since you need someone to hold your hand through our pal Jimmy's oeuvre: in his fourth film well known recovering addict Jim Greco is skating a now abandoned mall due to the effects of a global pandemic and the failure of capitalism. Like his other flicks, the area he is skating is utterly fucking desolate coupled with the theme of addiction. I don't live in LA but I'd wager a guess since its a fucking mall on Main St in downtown surrounded by large buildings wheres CEO's commute to work in helicopters, this was once a bustling mecca of capital, but now its utterly overrun by homeless people, trash, addiction, mental health issues, disease, and likely more--he is skating a single spot and giving us a glimpse into the reality of that space, which is fucking BLEAK. Everything about this film is extremely jarring and in stark contrast what life in LA is presented to us through other forms of culture. It's far more offensive to not include that, it would whitewash the reality of existing in LA in 2020; a straight up visual gentrification. This is a skate video (documentary, really) about a specific spot in a very specific time and he's showing us what it looks like, which is important. Just the fact that I live in the woods of Massachusetts but have now spent over an hour watching and writing about homelessness on a skate forum is proving my point--he's sparking dialogue about how harsh reality is right now which is not something to be ignored. I'm not trying to be a smartass but it's also shallow/naive when people think every instance of documented homelessness in a skate video is negative, and also annoying to have to reiterate these same points years later.

[Frank and Fred]

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Super subjective. I don't think there is really a way to convince each other whether this was homeless exploitation or not. Depends on your experience, comfort levels and interpretation. I don't think this is an argument that can be 'won.'

[close]

They were literally antagonizing a guy to the point where he had to chase them away. In what universe is that not exploitation?

That's an assumption.

[mattchew]

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Super subjective. I don't think there is really a way to convince each other whether this was homeless exploitation or not. Depends on your experience, comfort levels and interpretation. I don't think this is an argument that can be 'won.'

[close]

They were literally antagonizing a guy to the point where he had to chase them away. In what universe is that not exploitation?

No question thats the most (only, imo) questionable clip in the video. Dude says if you keep filming me I'll fucking kill you and then proceeds to try to attack them, but we also don't know what happened off camera. I didn't pick up on Greco or Sinko antagonizing him, kind of seemed like the opposite tbh, though I am not about to blame the dude. It's certainly not clear how that confrontation manifested, and I don't think it's exploitative to include an encounter with someone trying to assault you.

[heckler]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

[close]

Better question: how is it not?

[close]

I literally answered that in the post you quoted. So better question, dont deflect and explain how this is exploitative. And yes I’m aware we have had this exact debate already years ago and you took an L. People do it all the time in videos but this is not an example of it.

[close]

You literally did not. You just explained why you think it's so filming homelessness is so integral for a skate video, as if there's no other way to convey "the world is fucked and some people have it rough" than putting a human being's lowest moments on blast without their consent, then you said it's bad when some videos do it poorly, and then said this isn't it. You didn't explain what makes Jim Greco's video so overwhelmingly different, nor did you explain how these shots are not exploitative of the people being filmed.

Now, please explain why the exploitation of people without homes and people dealing with addiction is good when Jim Greco does it in this video, but why others who exploit these people with more or less the same tactics in other videos is bad. While you're at it, please explain what the overarching "message" of this video is that couldn't be properly conveyed without individual, identifying shots of homeless people shot without their consent.

I remember our conversation in the past and while I don't remember an outcome (because I'm not a nine year old who qualifies discussions as "Ws" or "Ls"), I see you certainly still think of yourself as the smartest person in the room at all times.

Edit: while we're at it, feel free to respond to @pizzafliptofakie's point as well.

[close]

I absolutely don't think it's integral to film homeless people for a skate video and never said that. I have continually reiterated that most people do this very poorly but that does not mean that every single instance is shitty as you seem to think. There are numerous positive (as well as negative) examples of interacting with street people in almost every Sabotage and GX video for instance. Being out on the street and filming your surroundings and the general culture of the street isn't inherently exploitative. It's good it makes you uncomfortable, it should.

I am definitely not the smartest guy in the room but since you need someone to hold your hand through our pal Jimmy's oeuvre: in his fourth film well known recovering addict Jim Greco is skating a now abandoned mall due to the effects of a global pandemic and the failure of capitalism. Like his other flicks, the area he is skating is utterly fucking desolate coupled with the theme of addiction. I don't live in LA but I'd wager a guess since its a fucking mall on Main St in downtown surrounded by large buildings wheres CEO's commute to work in helicopters, this was once a bustling mecca of capital, but now its utterly overrun by homeless people, trash, addiction, mental health issues, disease, and likely more--he is skating a single spot and giving us a glimpse into the reality of that space, which is fucking BLEAK. Everything about this film is extremely jarring and in stark contrast what life in LA is presented to us through other forms of culture. It's far more offensive to not include that, it would whitewash the reality of existing in LA in 2020; a straight up visual gentrification. This is a skate video (documentary, really) about a specific spot in a very specific time and he's showing us what it looks like, which is important. Just the fact that I live in the woods of Massachusetts but have now spent over an hour watching and writing about homelessness on a skate forum is proving my point--he's sparking dialogue about how harsh reality is right now which is not something to be ignored. I'm not trying to be a smartass but it's also shallow/naive when people think every instance of documented homelessness in a skate video is negative, and also annoying to have to reiterate these same points years later.

Congrats, you didn't address any the points raised, but at least you didn't invoke Ocean Howell talking about coexisting with homeless people in these spaces as if coexisting and filming are the same thing. That's a start, I guess.

Also, many thanks for explaining for me that the groundbreaking fucking messages of this video film are "Los Angeles is vapid" and "2020 is bad." Can't believe this is the first time they've been explored in depth, I'm sure the dude smoking crack and the man visibly agitated at being filmed (among others) are thrilled to have their images shared in such revolutionary work.

[mattchew]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

[close]

Better question: how is it not?

[close]

I literally answered that in the post you quoted. So better question, dont deflect and explain how this is exploitative. And yes I’m aware we have had this exact debate already years ago and you took an L. People do it all the time in videos but this is not an example of it.

[close]

You literally did not. You just explained why you think it's so filming homelessness is so integral for a skate video, as if there's no other way to convey "the world is fucked and some people have it rough" than putting a human being's lowest moments on blast without their consent, then you said it's bad when some videos do it poorly, and then said this isn't it. You didn't explain what makes Jim Greco's video so overwhelmingly different, nor did you explain how these shots are not exploitative of the people being filmed.

Now, please explain why the exploitation of people without homes and people dealing with addiction is good when Jim Greco does it in this video, but why others who exploit these people with more or less the same tactics in other videos is bad. While you're at it, please explain what the overarching "message" of this video is that couldn't be properly conveyed without individual, identifying shots of homeless people shot without their consent.

I remember our conversation in the past and while I don't remember an outcome (because I'm not a nine year old who qualifies discussions as "Ws" or "Ls"), I see you certainly still think of yourself as the smartest person in the room at all times.

Edit: while we're at it, feel free to respond to @pizzafliptofakie's point as well.

[close]

I absolutely don't think it's integral to film homeless people for a skate video and never said that. I have continually reiterated that most people do this very poorly but that does not mean that every single instance is shitty as you seem to think. There are numerous positive (as well as negative) examples of interacting with street people in almost every Sabotage and GX video for instance. Being out on the street and filming your surroundings and the general culture of the street isn't inherently exploitative. It's good it makes you uncomfortable, it should.

I am definitely not the smartest guy in the room but since you need someone to hold your hand through our pal Jimmy's oeuvre: in his fourth film well known recovering addict Jim Greco is skating a now abandoned mall due to the effects of a global pandemic and the failure of capitalism. Like his other flicks, the area he is skating is utterly fucking desolate coupled with the theme of addiction. I don't live in LA but I'd wager a guess since its a fucking mall on Main St in downtown surrounded by large buildings wheres CEO's commute to work in helicopters, this was once a bustling mecca of capital, but now its utterly overrun by homeless people, trash, addiction, mental health issues, disease, and likely more--he is skating a single spot and giving us a glimpse into the reality of that space, which is fucking BLEAK. Everything about this film is extremely jarring and in stark contrast what life in LA is presented to us through other forms of culture. It's far more offensive to not include that, it would whitewash the reality of existing in LA in 2020; a straight up visual gentrification. This is a skate video (documentary, really) about a specific spot in a very specific time and he's showing us what it looks like, which is important. Just the fact that I live in the woods of Massachusetts but have now spent over an hour watching and writing about homelessness on a skate forum is proving my point--he's sparking dialogue about how harsh reality is right now which is not something to be ignored. I'm not trying to be a smartass but it's also shallow/naive when people think every instance of documented homelessness in a skate video is negative, and also annoying to have to reiterate these same points years later.

[close]

Congrats, you didn't address any the points raised, but at least you didn't invoke Ocean Howell talking about coexisting with homeless people in these spaces as if coexisting and filming are the same thing. That's a start, I guess.

Also, many thanks for explaining for me that the groundbreaking fucking messages of this video film are "Los Angeles is vapid" and "2020 is bad." Can't believe this is the first time they've been explored in depth, I'm sure the dude smoking crack and the man visibly agitated at being filmed (among others) are thrilled to have their images shared in such revolutionary work.

Expert level cop out/deflection, sincerely impressed. Have a gnar heckler.

[Frank and Fred]

I don't think the depictions were insensitive. People need to see that shit. And if you live in a big West Coast city, it is part of the experience if you are out in the streets skateboarding. I've worked with houseless young people for twenty years. Very little annoys me more than lack of compassion and understanding of how and why people are on the streets.

[heckler]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

[close]

Better question: how is it not?

[close]

I literally answered that in the post you quoted. So better question, dont deflect and explain how this is exploitative. And yes I’m aware we have had this exact debate already years ago and you took an L. People do it all the time in videos but this is not an example of it.

[close]

You literally did not. You just explained why you think it's so filming homelessness is so integral for a skate video, as if there's no other way to convey "the world is fucked and some people have it rough" than putting a human being's lowest moments on blast without their consent, then you said it's bad when some videos do it poorly, and then said this isn't it. You didn't explain what makes Jim Greco's video so overwhelmingly different, nor did you explain how these shots are not exploitative of the people being filmed.

Now, please explain why the exploitation of people without homes and people dealing with addiction is good when Jim Greco does it in this video, but why others who exploit these people with more or less the same tactics in other videos is bad. While you're at it, please explain what the overarching "message" of this video is that couldn't be properly conveyed without individual, identifying shots of homeless people shot without their consent.

I remember our conversation in the past and while I don't remember an outcome (because I'm not a nine year old who qualifies discussions as "Ws" or "Ls"), I see you certainly still think of yourself as the smartest person in the room at all times.

Edit: while we're at it, feel free to respond to @pizzafliptofakie's point as well.

[close]

I absolutely don't think it's integral to film homeless people for a skate video and never said that. I have continually reiterated that most people do this very poorly but that does not mean that every single instance is shitty as you seem to think. There are numerous positive (as well as negative) examples of interacting with street people in almost every Sabotage and GX video for instance. Being out on the street and filming your surroundings and the general culture of the street isn't inherently exploitative. It's good it makes you uncomfortable, it should.

I am definitely not the smartest guy in the room but since you need someone to hold your hand through our pal Jimmy's oeuvre: in his fourth film well known recovering addict Jim Greco is skating a now abandoned mall due to the effects of a global pandemic and the failure of capitalism. Like his other flicks, the area he is skating is utterly fucking desolate coupled with the theme of addiction. I don't live in LA but I'd wager a guess since its a fucking mall on Main St in downtown surrounded by large buildings wheres CEO's commute to work in helicopters, this was once a bustling mecca of capital, but now its utterly overrun by homeless people, trash, addiction, mental health issues, disease, and likely more--he is skating a single spot and giving us a glimpse into the reality of that space, which is fucking BLEAK. Everything about this film is extremely jarring and in stark contrast what life in LA is presented to us through other forms of culture. It's far more offensive to not include that, it would whitewash the reality of existing in LA in 2020; a straight up visual gentrification. This is a skate video (documentary, really) about a specific spot in a very specific time and he's showing us what it looks like, which is important. Just the fact that I live in the woods of Massachusetts but have now spent over an hour watching and writing about homelessness on a skate forum is proving my point--he's sparking dialogue about how harsh reality is right now which is not something to be ignored. I'm not trying to be a smartass but it's also shallow/naive when people think every instance of documented homelessness in a skate video is negative, and also annoying to have to reiterate these same points years later.

[close]

Congrats, you didn't address any the points raised, but at least you didn't invoke Ocean Howell talking about coexisting with homeless people in these spaces as if coexisting and filming are the same thing. That's a start, I guess.

Also, many thanks for explaining for me that the groundbreaking fucking messages of this video film are "Los Angeles is vapid" and "2020 is bad." Can't believe this is the first time they've been explored in depth, I'm sure the dude smoking crack and the man visibly agitated at being filmed (among others) are thrilled to have their images shared in such revolutionary work.

[close]

Expert level cop out/deflection, sincerely impressed. Have a gnar heckler.

Wow, I just realized you actually think you answered my questions. Wow. Just a heads up: you can convey the message of "this place is fucked up!" and "homelessness is rampant here" without showing an actual homeless person. Did you drop out after Film 101 or something?

[pizzafliptofakie]

Even if it wasn't a homeless guy we were talking about, filming someone without their consent, being told to stop, and then continuing to do so is 100% antagonistic behavior. I am shocked that anyone would argue otherwise. Either way, I stand by it being a very trite artistic statement. It's been done to death and it isn't any sort of biting commentary on the status quo. And the fact that there is practically a library's worth of other examples of this within skateboarding media alone proves as such. This does nothing different other than put a fancy film filter over it.

[mattchew]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

[close]

Better question: how is it not?

[close]

I literally answered that in the post you quoted. So better question, dont deflect and explain how this is exploitative. And yes I’m aware we have had this exact debate already years ago and you took an L. People do it all the time in videos but this is not an example of it.

[close]

You literally did not. You just explained why you think it's so filming homelessness is so integral for a skate video, as if there's no other way to convey "the world is fucked and some people have it rough" than putting a human being's lowest moments on blast without their consent, then you said it's bad when some videos do it poorly, and then said this isn't it. You didn't explain what makes Jim Greco's video so overwhelmingly different, nor did you explain how these shots are not exploitative of the people being filmed.

Now, please explain why the exploitation of people without homes and people dealing with addiction is good when Jim Greco does it in this video, but why others who exploit these people with more or less the same tactics in other videos is bad. While you're at it, please explain what the overarching "message" of this video is that couldn't be properly conveyed without individual, identifying shots of homeless people shot without their consent.

I remember our conversation in the past and while I don't remember an outcome (because I'm not a nine year old who qualifies discussions as "Ws" or "Ls"), I see you certainly still think of yourself as the smartest person in the room at all times.

Edit: while we're at it, feel free to respond to @pizzafliptofakie's point as well.

[close]

I absolutely don't think it's integral to film homeless people for a skate video and never said that. I have continually reiterated that most people do this very poorly but that does not mean that every single instance is shitty as you seem to think. There are numerous positive (as well as negative) examples of interacting with street people in almost every Sabotage and GX video for instance. Being out on the street and filming your surroundings and the general culture of the street isn't inherently exploitative. It's good it makes you uncomfortable, it should.

I am definitely not the smartest guy in the room but since you need someone to hold your hand through our pal Jimmy's oeuvre: in his fourth film well known recovering addict Jim Greco is skating a now abandoned mall due to the effects of a global pandemic and the failure of capitalism. Like his other flicks, the area he is skating is utterly fucking desolate coupled with the theme of addiction. I don't live in LA but I'd wager a guess since its a fucking mall on Main St in downtown surrounded by large buildings wheres CEO's commute to work in helicopters, this was once a bustling mecca of capital, but now its utterly overrun by homeless people, trash, addiction, mental health issues, disease, and likely more--he is skating a single spot and giving us a glimpse into the reality of that space, which is fucking BLEAK. Everything about this film is extremely jarring and in stark contrast what life in LA is presented to us through other forms of culture. It's far more offensive to not include that, it would whitewash the reality of existing in LA in 2020; a straight up visual gentrification. This is a skate video (documentary, really) about a specific spot in a very specific time and he's showing us what it looks like, which is important. Just the fact that I live in the woods of Massachusetts but have now spent over an hour watching and writing about homelessness on a skate forum is proving my point--he's sparking dialogue about how harsh reality is right now which is not something to be ignored. I'm not trying to be a smartass but it's also shallow/naive when people think every instance of documented homelessness in a skate video is negative, and also annoying to have to reiterate these same points years later.

[close]

Congrats, you didn't address any the points raised, but at least you didn't invoke Ocean Howell talking about coexisting with homeless people in these spaces as if coexisting and filming are the same thing. That's a start, I guess.

Also, many thanks for explaining for me that the groundbreaking fucking messages of this video film are "Los Angeles is vapid" and "2020 is bad." Can't believe this is the first time they've been explored in depth, I'm sure the dude smoking crack and the man visibly agitated at being filmed (among others) are thrilled to have their images shared in such revolutionary work.

[close]

Expert level cop out/deflection, sincerely impressed. Have a gnar heckler.

[close]

Wow, I just realized you actually think you answered my questions. Wow. Just a heads up: you can convey the message of "this place is fucked up!" and "homelessness is rampant here" without showing an actual homeless person. Did you drop out after Film 101 or something?

Of course you can. Be he didn’t. And it wasn’t exploitative. Are you really being that obtuse right now? Bad day? Would gnar you again if I could buddy; it’s hard out here!

[heckler]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

[close]

Better question: how is it not?

[close]

I literally answered that in the post you quoted. So better question, dont deflect and explain how this is exploitative. And yes I’m aware we have had this exact debate already years ago and you took an L. People do it all the time in videos but this is not an example of it.

[close]

You literally did not. You just explained why you think it's so filming homelessness is so integral for a skate video, as if there's no other way to convey "the world is fucked and some people have it rough" than putting a human being's lowest moments on blast without their consent, then you said it's bad when some videos do it poorly, and then said this isn't it. You didn't explain what makes Jim Greco's video so overwhelmingly different, nor did you explain how these shots are not exploitative of the people being filmed.

Now, please explain why the exploitation of people without homes and people dealing with addiction is good when Jim Greco does it in this video, but why others who exploit these people with more or less the same tactics in other videos is bad. While you're at it, please explain what the overarching "message" of this video is that couldn't be properly conveyed without individual, identifying shots of homeless people shot without their consent.

I remember our conversation in the past and while I don't remember an outcome (because I'm not a nine year old who qualifies discussions as "Ws" or "Ls"), I see you certainly still think of yourself as the smartest person in the room at all times.

Edit: while we're at it, feel free to respond to @pizzafliptofakie's point as well.

[close]

I absolutely don't think it's integral to film homeless people for a skate video and never said that. I have continually reiterated that most people do this very poorly but that does not mean that every single instance is shitty as you seem to think. There are numerous positive (as well as negative) examples of interacting with street people in almost every Sabotage and GX video for instance. Being out on the street and filming your surroundings and the general culture of the street isn't inherently exploitative. It's good it makes you uncomfortable, it should.

I am definitely not the smartest guy in the room but since you need someone to hold your hand through our pal Jimmy's oeuvre: in his fourth film well known recovering addict Jim Greco is skating a now abandoned mall due to the effects of a global pandemic and the failure of capitalism. Like his other flicks, the area he is skating is utterly fucking desolate coupled with the theme of addiction. I don't live in LA but I'd wager a guess since its a fucking mall on Main St in downtown surrounded by large buildings wheres CEO's commute to work in helicopters, this was once a bustling mecca of capital, but now its utterly overrun by homeless people, trash, addiction, mental health issues, disease, and likely more--he is skating a single spot and giving us a glimpse into the reality of that space, which is fucking BLEAK. Everything about this film is extremely jarring and in stark contrast what life in LA is presented to us through other forms of culture. It's far more offensive to not include that, it would whitewash the reality of existing in LA in 2020; a straight up visual gentrification. This is a skate video (documentary, really) about a specific spot in a very specific time and he's showing us what it looks like, which is important. Just the fact that I live in the woods of Massachusetts but have now spent over an hour watching and writing about homelessness on a skate forum is proving my point--he's sparking dialogue about how harsh reality is right now which is not something to be ignored. I'm not trying to be a smartass but it's also shallow/naive when people think every instance of documented homelessness in a skate video is negative, and also annoying to have to reiterate these same points years later.

[close]

Congrats, you didn't address any the points raised, but at least you didn't invoke Ocean Howell talking about coexisting with homeless people in these spaces as if coexisting and filming are the same thing. That's a start, I guess.

Also, many thanks for explaining for me that the groundbreaking fucking messages of this video film are "Los Angeles is vapid" and "2020 is bad." Can't believe this is the first time they've been explored in depth, I'm sure the dude smoking crack and the man visibly agitated at being filmed (among others) are thrilled to have their images shared in such revolutionary work.

[close]

Expert level cop out/deflection, sincerely impressed. Have a gnar heckler.

[close]

Wow, I just realized you actually think you answered my questions. Wow. Just a heads up: you can convey the message of "this place is fucked up!" and "homelessness is rampant here" without showing an actual homeless person. Did you drop out after Film 101 or something?

[close]

Of course you can. Be he didn’t. And it wasn’t exploitative. Are you really being that obtuse right now? Bad day? Would gnar you again if I could buddy; it’s hard out here!

I'm gonna stop responding because we're back to this point, which you're treating as fact but still haven't explained why it's fact. Maybe try googling "exploitative" first so you know have a better idea of what the word means.

[waltercronkite]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

[close]

Better question: how is it not?

[close]

I literally answered that in the post you quoted. So better question, dont deflect and explain how this is exploitative. And yes I’m aware we have had this exact debate already years ago and you took an L. People do it all the time in videos but this is not an example of it.

[close]

You literally did not. You just explained why you think it's so filming homelessness is so integral for a skate video, as if there's no other way to convey "the world is fucked and some people have it rough" than putting a human being's lowest moments on blast without their consent, then you said it's bad when some videos do it poorly, and then said this isn't it. You didn't explain what makes Jim Greco's video so overwhelmingly different, nor did you explain how these shots are not exploitative of the people being filmed.

Now, please explain why the exploitation of people without homes and people dealing with addiction is good when Jim Greco does it in this video, but why others who exploit these people with more or less the same tactics in other videos is bad. While you're at it, please explain what the overarching "message" of this video is that couldn't be properly conveyed without individual, identifying shots of homeless people shot without their consent.

I remember our conversation in the past and while I don't remember an outcome (because I'm not a nine year old who qualifies discussions as "Ws" or "Ls"), I see you certainly still think of yourself as the smartest person in the room at all times.

Edit: while we're at it, feel free to respond to @pizzafliptofakie's point as well.

[close]

I absolutely don't think it's integral to film homeless people for a skate video and never said that. I have continually reiterated that most people do this very poorly but that does not mean that every single instance is shitty as you seem to think. There are numerous positive (as well as negative) examples of interacting with street people in almost every Sabotage and GX video for instance. Being out on the street and filming your surroundings and the general culture of the street isn't inherently exploitative. It's good it makes you uncomfortable, it should.

I am definitely not the smartest guy in the room but since you need someone to hold your hand through our pal Jimmy's oeuvre: in his fourth film well known recovering addict Jim Greco is skating a now abandoned mall due to the effects of a global pandemic and the failure of capitalism. Like his other flicks, the area he is skating is utterly fucking desolate coupled with the theme of addiction. I don't live in LA but I'd wager a guess since its a fucking mall on Main St in downtown surrounded by large buildings wheres CEO's commute to work in helicopters, this was once a bustling mecca of capital, but now its utterly overrun by homeless people, trash, addiction, mental health issues, disease, and likely more--he is skating a single spot and giving us a glimpse into the reality of that space, which is fucking BLEAK. Everything about this film is extremely jarring and in stark contrast what life in LA is presented to us through other forms of culture. It's far more offensive to not include that, it would whitewash the reality of existing in LA in 2020; a straight up visual gentrification. This is a skate video (documentary, really) about a specific spot in a very specific time and he's showing us what it looks like, which is important. Just the fact that I live in the woods of Massachusetts but have now spent over an hour watching and writing about homelessness on a skate forum is proving my point--he's sparking dialogue about how harsh reality is right now which is not something to be ignored. I'm not trying to be a smartass but it's also shallow/naive when people think every instance of documented homelessness in a skate video is negative, and also annoying to have to reiterate these same points years later.

[close]

Congrats, you didn't address any the points raised, but at least you didn't invoke Ocean Howell talking about coexisting with homeless people in these spaces as if coexisting and filming are the same thing. That's a start, I guess.

Also, many thanks for explaining for me that the groundbreaking fucking messages of this video film are "Los Angeles is vapid" and "2020 is bad." Can't believe this is the first time they've been explored in depth, I'm sure the dude smoking crack and the man visibly agitated at being filmed (among others) are thrilled to have their images shared in such revolutionary work.

[close]

Expert level cop out/deflection, sincerely impressed. Have a gnar heckler.

[close]

Wow, I just realized you actually think you answered my questions. Wow. Just a heads up: you can convey the message of "this place is fucked up!" and "homelessness is rampant here" without showing an actual homeless person. Did you drop out after Film 101 or something?

[close]

Of course you can. Be he didn’t. And it wasn’t exploitative. Are you really being that obtuse right now? Bad day? Would gnar you again if I could buddy; it’s hard out here!

Just so we are clear you are not trying to make any real points here and decided to engage just to be antagonistic and win an argument.

[ChuckRamone]

I loved it. I'm not saying it was executed terribly well as a "film", or even a skate vid, but it felt haphazard and thrown together in a way that feels genuine to his personality, and like others have said, it felt authentic to going skating by yourself in COVIDays

But really, it's mainly that his skating is just so damn good. 42 years old, arguably more stylish than ever. I could give a shit if it's 100% low impact, this is the kinda shit i like to watch, and I will gladly suffer the nausea from shaky cam that comes with it

What qualifies as low impact? Do you have to skate rails and stairs for it to not be? You could get seriously smoked trying some of these tricks at those spots. Is low impact very literal meaning there are no significant drops or heights involved?

[Croquet temper]

I mean, if that spot really was surrounded by homeless people smoking crack, it would be dishonest to not show it. I see it as a bit of journalistic integrity and a sign of the times, as I think it's meant to be.

[Lenny the Fatface]

I swear to fucking god that auteur Greco is the best Greco. This is coming from someone who loved Dickies Greco.

[mattchew]

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It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

[close]

Yes, it is.

[close]

How?

[close]

Better question: how is it not?

[close]

I literally answered that in the post you quoted. So better question, dont deflect and explain how this is exploitative. And yes I’m aware we have had this exact debate already years ago and you took an L. People do it all the time in videos but this is not an example of it.

[close]

You literally did not. You just explained why you think it's so filming homelessness is so integral for a skate video, as if there's no other way to convey "the world is fucked and some people have it rough" than putting a human being's lowest moments on blast without their consent, then you said it's bad when some videos do it poorly, and then said this isn't it. You didn't explain what makes Jim Greco's video so overwhelmingly different, nor did you explain how these shots are not exploitative of the people being filmed.

Now, please explain why the exploitation of people without homes and people dealing with addiction is good when Jim Greco does it in this video, but why others who exploit these people with more or less the same tactics in other videos is bad. While you're at it, please explain what the overarching "message" of this video is that couldn't be properly conveyed without individual, identifying shots of homeless people shot without their consent.

I remember our conversation in the past and while I don't remember an outcome (because I'm not a nine year old who qualifies discussions as "Ws" or "Ls"), I see you certainly still think of yourself as the smartest person in the room at all times.

Edit: while we're at it, feel free to respond to @pizzafliptofakie's point as well.

[close]

I absolutely don't think it's integral to film homeless people for a skate video and never said that. I have continually reiterated that most people do this very poorly but that does not mean that every single instance is shitty as you seem to think. There are numerous positive (as well as negative) examples of interacting with street people in almost every Sabotage and GX video for instance. Being out on the street and filming your surroundings and the general culture of the street isn't inherently exploitative. It's good it makes you uncomfortable, it should.

I am definitely not the smartest guy in the room but since you need someone to hold your hand through our pal Jimmy's oeuvre: in his fourth film well known recovering addict Jim Greco is skating a now abandoned mall due to the effects of a global pandemic and the failure of capitalism. Like his other flicks, the area he is skating is utterly fucking desolate coupled with the theme of addiction. I don't live in LA but I'd wager a guess since its a fucking mall on Main St in downtown surrounded by large buildings wheres CEO's commute to work in helicopters, this was once a bustling mecca of capital, but now its utterly overrun by homeless people, trash, addiction, mental health issues, disease, and likely more--he is skating a single spot and giving us a glimpse into the reality of that space, which is fucking BLEAK. Everything about this film is extremely jarring and in stark contrast what life in LA is presented to us through other forms of culture. It's far more offensive to not include that, it would whitewash the reality of existing in LA in 2020; a straight up visual gentrification. This is a skate video (documentary, really) about a specific spot in a very specific time and he's showing us what it looks like, which is important. Just the fact that I live in the woods of Massachusetts but have now spent over an hour watching and writing about homelessness on a skate forum is proving my point--he's sparking dialogue about how harsh reality is right now which is not something to be ignored. I'm not trying to be a smartass but it's also shallow/naive when people think every instance of documented homelessness in a skate video is negative, and also annoying to have to reiterate these same points years later.

[close]

Congrats, you didn't address any the points raised, but at least you didn't invoke Ocean Howell talking about coexisting with homeless people in these spaces as if coexisting and filming are the same thing. That's a start, I guess.

Also, many thanks for explaining for me that the groundbreaking fucking messages of this video film are "Los Angeles is vapid" and "2020 is bad." Can't believe this is the first time they've been explored in depth, I'm sure the dude smoking crack and the man visibly agitated at being filmed (among others) are thrilled to have their images shared in such revolutionary work.

[close]

Expert level cop out/deflection, sincerely impressed. Have a gnar heckler.

[close]

Wow, I just realized you actually think you answered my questions. Wow. Just a heads up: you can convey the message of "this place is fucked up!" and "homelessness is rampant here" without showing an actual homeless person. Did you drop out after Film 101 or something?

[close]

Of course you can. Be he didn’t. And it wasn’t exploitative. Are you really being that obtuse right now? Bad day? Would gnar you again if I could buddy; it’s hard out here!

[close]

I'm gonna stop responding because we're back to this point, which you're treating as fact but still haven't explained why it's fact. Maybe try googling "exploitative" first so you know have a better idea of what the word means.

You’re going to stop responding because you literally can’t explain why you believe this to be exploitative all the while insisting that I’ve not explained why I believe it is in fact not (which I’ve done in multiple posts).

[Alois Hitler Jr.]

skating in this one is actually amazing.

[ralf_]

meeh

[Dr-Feelgood]

Even if it wasn't a homeless guy we were talking about, filming someone without their consent, being told to stop, and then continuing to do so is 100% antagonistic behavior. I am shocked that anyone would argue otherwise. Either way, I stand by it being a very trite artistic statement. It's been done to death and it isn't any sort of biting commentary on the status quo. And the fact that there is practically a library's worth of other examples of this within skateboarding media alone proves as such. This does nothing different other than put a fancy film filter over it.

you would think at this point in grecos career/life he would know better....anyway i enjoyed some of the skate footage

[camel filters]

I'm too amazed that the guy who turned a case of beer into a "zero pack" is now doing stuff like this. Can't even begin to judge the artistic merit of it all.

[fongool]

both sides of the argument have merit -- in this instance the spot itself(and its current state during the pandemic) is clearly a co-star of this video

also should note that this spot has been featured as a recurring spot in many of his previous videos so its not as if he specifically went to some random homeless encampment to document the hijinks

also didnt realize there was so much other random stuff to skate there  -- he should've hit the Muska curved rail!

[Madam, I'm Adam]

It’s not tasteless y’all. It’s worse to be skating spots like that and completely ignore the surroundings as if no one is suffering right now; literally the entire planet is fucked. It’s like a gross whitewash/visual gentrification to pretend people aren’t camped out there smoking rock in the middle of the day when that’s the stone cold reality. Skateboarding is a part of street culture, just like graffiti, and yes homelessness. Street skating videos are just that, a documentation of street culture. He’s providing visibility to the social underbelly everyone chooses to disregard like trash, and in turn sparking a conversation about how fucked it all is. It’s good that these images upset you, they should be upsetting, but it’s shortsighted to say it’s tasteless or indefensible. I also want to be explicitly clear that it is extremely easy to completely exploit homelessness in skate videos and it happens regularly, but this ain’t it. Go scold GX for vollies instead.

Well okay, here's my response. Respectfully Matt, I don't see street skating (videos) as a documentation of street culture - I see them as a documentation of skateboarding. Yes, skating is part of the streets, it's part of the underground, but that doesn't mean we need to showcase every single other part of what happens in the streets.

And why do we watch skate vids? We watch them for entertainment. To get excited, stoked on skating. To me, it's incongruous to add lots of footage of those less fortunate because I don't believe that a skate video is a compatible medium to spark conversation about the wounded underbelly of a society, unless a clear point is made from the beginning of the video that that is in fact the intended point. And lots of videos do that properly. That's why I'm uncomfortable with the footage - not because I turn my head at the sight of a homeless person.

If we don't have that understanding of what we're watching from the beginning, then it smacks of immaturity and wanting to use footage of the homeless because it's "entertaining." Honestly it reminds me of a small local video I watched many years back where the kids in the video were filming a man with a mental illness for fun, and even though he told them to stop, they continued to film while giggling. Not too far removed.

Also, I'm not against critiquing other videos for their at-times gratuitous footage of the homeless. I wasn't totally comfortable with Gerwer's instagram account years back either, for example. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy other output from GX or Sabotage or whomever, I'll enjoy watching the skating, but yeah - it does turn me off from being really stoked on them. That's how I feel.

And remember in Guy Mariano's Epicly Later'd when O'Dell was filming the homeless in LA as he was driving by in his car, and a guy literally screamed at him "Don't be filming me motherfucker?" Do you think homeless people appreciate being filmed? Like they want the nadir of their existence recorded and put on display? Do you think that man thought for a second that his image and situation was going to be used for a greater purpose and that it was all right? It's not as one-sided as some make it seem.

[Nicki]

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Even if it wasn't a homeless guy we were talking about, filming someone without their consent, being told to stop, and then continuing to do so is 100% antagonistic behavior. I am shocked that anyone would argue otherwise. Either way, I stand by it being a very trite artistic statement. It's been done to death and it isn't any sort of biting commentary on the status quo. And the fact that there is practically a library's worth of other examples of this within skateboarding media alone proves as such. This does nothing different other than put a fancy film filter over it.

[close]

you would think at this point in grecos career/life he would know better....anyway i enjoyed some of the skate footage

Yeah, you’d think but Jim seems kinda stuck on this current stage, and it’s getting boring. As usual some amazing skating, but this is easily the worst of the “Sober Trilogy”. Time to move on to the next Greco.

And yes, a professional landlord filming homeless people for content for his art is very uncomfortable.

“I’m looking to buy more property—to take all my earnings from skateboarding and buy as much property as possible. I do not want to be rich; I just want to live comfortably...going where I want, when I want and doing what I want without worries and without having to rely on skateboarding at a professional level forever to do so. I feel this is achievable by owning property”(Greco, 2016).