Lil Wayne Pleads Guilty Federal Gun Charge, Faces 10 Years

[Dinglenuts]

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Unfortunately the world has alot of bad people in it. If one of these people tries to do something terrible to you and/or your loved ones a gun will likely prevent them from doing so. It would be nice to not have to think this way, but its not very realistic nowadays.

[close]

This is reasoning appears sound on the surface, but it is based on the propaganda that gun owners are safer than their peers, which ignores the risks guns pose to the owner (suicide and accidents) and/or their loved ones (domestic violence and accidents)...and a lack of empirical evidence to support the position that ownership actually makes anyone safer.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/



"Unfortunately the world has a lot of bad people in it. If one of these people has a gun and wants to do something terrible to themselves, their family, you, and/or your family the gun will make the damage significantly worse. It would be nice to not have to think this way, but it's not very realistic nowadays."

Honestly, I don't lean super far on the debate, but the superficial logic that is spouted out drives me bonkers. Gun ownership seems to promote a sense of safety, but a sense of safety and actual safety are two very different things.



The propaganda surrounding gun ownership seems pretty effective.

[close]

thanks for the science here Lurper--i for one would love to have you help us interpret the data on that graph--specifically the role that you think that "propaganda" plays in the data and what you think this is supposed to tell us about these various political perspectives.

i wonder what that graph would look like if it was updated to include the tens of millions of gun sales this year, and the millions of "first-time buyers" included in these numbers?

X2

[pugmaster]

What is so wonderful about the multi-verse theory, is that if it is true... in some iteration of reality, somewhere in the galaxy (close or far), at some point in time (past, present, and/or future), SLAP message boards truly ARE the supreme court and by virtue of that SLAP makes definitive judgments that affect the lives of all the people within their nation and/or planet.  I like to think that in 5-10 short years, that version of reality is ours, that place is here, and that time is now.  But actually in about 5 years like I mentioned in the previous sentence.

[Sick_McCrank_]

If you gun guys were as hard as you want to be seen, you wouldnt need a gun. you just wanna be hard without working for it... soft mans power multiplier.

I prefer my knife collection, at least I can use them in a productive way on a daily basis. and if i need one for self defense, at least it is personal.

[Panettone]

If you gun guys were as hard as you want to be seen, you wouldnt need a gun. you just wanna be hard without working for it... soft mans power multiplier.

I prefer my knife collection, at least I can use them in a productive way on a daily basis. and if i need one for self defense, at least it is personal.

Ouch that's GOTTA HURT

[Deputy Wendell]

If you gun guys were as hard as you want to be seen, you wouldnt need a gun. you just wanna be hard without working for it... soft mans power multiplier.

I prefer my knife collection, at least I can use them in a productive way on a daily basis. and if i need one for self defense, at least it is personal.

i teach literature classes in the humanities, one of my last posts in "Music" was about how important the Cocteau Twins are in my life, etc. etc. etc....so which of us "gun guys" who post in here are trying to act "hard"? do you have anything to say that actually addresses all of the leftist "gun guys" who post in here? simply put, do you have anything to say that isn't just a lazy used-up cliche?

and poor sweet Panettone...are you still sniffing around this thread? kisses to you love...

[Panettone]

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If you gun guys were as hard as you want to be seen, you wouldnt need a gun. you just wanna be hard without working for it... soft mans power multiplier.

I prefer my knife collection, at least I can use them in a productive way on a daily basis. and if i need one for self defense, at least it is personal.

[close]

i teach literature classes in the humanities, one of my last posts in "Music" was about how important the Cocteau Twins are in my life, etc. etc. etc....so which of us "gun guys" who post in here are trying to act "hard"? do you have anything to say that actually addresses all of the leftist "gun guys" who post in here? simply put, do you have anything to say that isn't just a lazy used-up cliche?

and poor sweet Panettone...are you still sniffing around this thread? kisses to you love...

And you to big dog xxx

[fakie nollie]

Came here because I heard this thread was a dumpster fire. Y’all lived up to the hype.

[Deputy Wendell]

Came here because I heard this thread was a dumpster fire. Y’all lived up to the hype.

it's all Panettone's fault

[Panettone]

Sorry guys lol

Joking aside much love

[Deputy Wendell]

THUG life

[IUTSM]

it'd be fun if we could all go listen to closure, do some tricks on cellar doors, and shoot some rounds off together for the holidays. lil something for everyone <3

[Krooked antihero]

This debate about US vs EU and guns has been popping up steadily here in Slap, we’re coming from so different enviroments that arguing is so stupid as we clearly can’t see each other’s backgrounds. Like, I’m from Europe, first time I saw live gun was when I was in military training in my late teens. Haven’t seen one since, I’m 37 now but I can imagine dude in my age coming from LA has a totally different story... Killing is wrong imo but who am I to judge if you don’t know any better than that?

[OldieButFrenchie]

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Europe is heaven. Safe with good people.

[close]

going back and forth with Panettone is a wasted portion of my life that i will never get back--i'm assuming English is not his first language and that is why he makes so little sense. but that quote above just kills me and says so much about what a quintessentially delusional and myopic utopian masturbator he is. yeah Panettone, most Europeans don't have guns, just the state (in its various forms) does in each country, and where better to look at what a fucked and precarious situation that is, then in Germany and all of the aspiring Nazis and far-right extremists the police and military are lousy with there...amassing arms, training, mobilizing, etc....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/world/europe/germany-military-neo-nazis-ksk.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/world/europe/germany-nazi-infiltration.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-report.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/world/europe/german-special-forces-far-right.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-chat-group.html

yeah Panettone, thank god that these are the only people in Germany with the weapons...it's good to see that privileged white hypocrites hiding behind security and privilege talk the same cowardly shit in Europe as they do here in the USA--the USA currently plagued with armed confrontations escalating in the streets and far-right terrorist groups armed to the teeth plotting to kidnap politicians (greetings from Michigan love) and mobilizing and training...

...in addition to the daily issues with safety when ones lives around increasingly desperate criminals that poverty is squeezing, this country is collapsing and--just like across Europe--the far-right shift and growing threat from organized racists and xenophobes is more real than it has been in a long time...

...but this is all ok because as things continue to get worse, privileged kooks like Panettone can Tweet some clever and edgy shit i'm sure...

My man Wendell, I feel I have to correct you here, as in Europe the main threat to ordinary people like you and me is not the far-right. The only far-right attack I can think of in the last 20 years is Anders Brevik. Whereas we had dozens and dozens of bombings/shootings/beheadings by islamist radicals. Almost a hundred in the last 3 years Europe-wide.... You probably don't hear about most of them in the US, but it goes on and on, and it's been like that for over 20 years. I came very close myself to being blown up by a bomb in the Paris metro back in 95. We actually had so many of these attacks in the last few years in France, I was worried some far-right nut would go and shoot arabs/muslims in "retaliation", but nothing happened, fortunately. It's a really fucked situation, you can't reason with religious people.

Also to whoever said it: yes Lil Wayne has some bonafide classics in his repertoire. Undeniable.

Finally I gotta say it's real strange for Europeans to see left-wing leaning guys defending gun rights. Like Killer Mike from RTJ for instance. It's just a mystery to us.

[Deputy Wendell]

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Europe is heaven. Safe with good people.

[close]

going back and forth with Panettone is a wasted portion of my life that i will never get back--i'm assuming English is not his first language and that is why he makes so little sense. but that quote above just kills me and says so much about what a quintessentially delusional and myopic utopian masturbator he is. yeah Panettone, most Europeans don't have guns, just the state (in its various forms) does in each country, and where better to look at what a fucked and precarious situation that is, then in Germany and all of the aspiring Nazis and far-right extremists the police and military are lousy with there...amassing arms, training, mobilizing, etc....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/world/europe/germany-military-neo-nazis-ksk.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/world/europe/germany-nazi-infiltration.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-report.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/world/europe/german-special-forces-far-right.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-chat-group.html

yeah Panettone, thank god that these are the only people in Germany with the weapons...it's good to see that privileged white hypocrites hiding behind security and privilege talk the same cowardly shit in Europe as they do here in the USA--the USA currently plagued with armed confrontations escalating in the streets and far-right terrorist groups armed to the teeth plotting to kidnap politicians (greetings from Michigan love) and mobilizing and training...

...in addition to the daily issues with safety when ones lives around increasingly desperate criminals that poverty is squeezing, this country is collapsing and--just like across Europe--the far-right shift and growing threat from organized racists and xenophobes is more real than it has been in a long time...

...but this is all ok because as things continue to get worse, privileged kooks like Panettone can Tweet some clever and edgy shit i'm sure...

[close]

My man Wendell, I feel I have to correct you here, as in Europe the main threat to ordinary people like you and me is not the far-right. The only far-right attack I can think of in the last 20 years is Anders Brevik. Whereas we had dozens and dozens of bombings/shootings/beheadings by islamist radicals. Almost a hundred in the last 3 years Europe-wide.... You probably don't hear about most of them in the US, but it goes on and on, and it's been like that for over 20 years. I came very close myself to being blown up by a bomb in the Paris metro back in 95. We actually had so many of these attacks in the last few years in France, I was worried some far-right nut would go and shoot arabs/muslims in "retaliation", but nothing happened, fortunately. It's a really fucked situation, you can't reason with religious people.

Also to whoever said it: yes Lil Wayne has some bonafide classics in his repertoire. Undeniable.

Finally I gotta say it's real strange for Europeans to see left-wing leaning guys defending gun rights. Like Killer Mike from RTJ for instance. It's just a mystery to us.

cheers Frenchie...we do get word of most of the attacks that you mention, but that's completely missing the point of my post. the point is, Europe is experiencing its own shift to the far right in places--fuck man, you're in France, how long has your country been dealing with the Le Pen family? how much power and support do they wield still? what does " “ensauvagement” mean exactly and how and who is this word rhetorically effective on?

in your post you're talking about what's happened up to this point--in mine i'm talking about what may very well happen in the future and if you don't see that as a "threat," then i don't know what to tell you. you totally skipped all of those NYT articles on a very real and growing threat in Germany--these animals are present throughout the police and the military, they're highly trained and organized, and they have been amassing stolen arms and  ordnance for who knows how long. and lets' be honest, they've been murdering immigrants for decades. i mean, fuck man, Europe is historically the part of the planet where the foulest example(s) of fascism has taken/was allowed to take place, and that in the past century...what, but it could never happen there again?

regarding the "mystery" that those of us on the left in the US who are gun advocates are to you fine people in Europe, all i can say is, of course we are...just like for some of us, the fact that none of you seem to feel the need to be armed is a mystery as well...

[OldieButFrenchie]

>Wendell
sorry I don't have the time right now, I could go on for hours about the Le Pen family....and you are right, they've been a big part of French politics for at least 40 years. I'll try to answer when I have a bit more time.

I just wanted to say here: I said the 'main' threat. I do see the far-right as a threat, but the reality right now is they are far less active than djihadists. It might change, but for over 30 years the main terrorist threat here has been radical islam. and talking of 'animals', you've probably heard of the teacher that was beheaded in a Paris suburb a few months ago....how is that for barbaric? Plus these two extremes stoke each other....(am I wording that right?) Oh and I did not 'skip' the NYT articles, I was aware of all that! Honestly I don't need an American newspaper to tell me what is going on here! 

cheers

[Deputy Wendell]

>Wendell
sorry I don't have the time right now, I could go on for hours about the Le Pen family....and you are right, they've been a big part of French politics for at least 40 years. I'll try to answer when I have a bit more time.

I just wanted to say here: I said the 'main' threat. I do see the far-right as a threat, but the reality right now is they are far less active than djihadists. It might change, but for over 30 years the main terrorist threat here has been radical islam. and talking of 'animals', you've probably heard of the teacher that was beheaded in a Paris suburb a few months ago....how is that for barbaric? Plus these two extremes stoke each other....(am I wording that right?) Oh and I did not 'skip' the NYT articles, I was aware of all that! Honestly I don't need an American newspaper to tell me what is going on here! 

cheers

i appreciate the response and your perspective Frenchie--i guess i can see why the far right seems like less of a threat from where you stand. am i wrong to assume though, that despite being the European Union, things differ as drastically from country to country as they do here in the US from state to state (and from region to region)? (edit:) either way, "stoke each other" sounds right man, and i agree that most of the time political extremes act as catalysts to one another.

i’ve only been to Berlin, and that was with the chair of my dissertation committee--and we were there researching how Berlin deals with history/memory in its landscape (so basically our days were spent looking at/for traces of the Third Reich and its brutalities in the architecture and geography)--so my experience in/of Europe is quite limited.

and i can also appreciate that you don’t “need an American newspaper to tell [you] what is going on” in Europe...copy that. that’s kind of the same thing that turned this thread into the meandering mess that it is--Panettone’s comment about many Americans and our "death machines." similarly, we also don’t really need input from Europeans who don’t know anything about living in this collapsing country regarding--amongst other things--whether or not we should be armed...

[IUTSM]

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Europe is heaven. Safe with good people.

[close]

going back and forth with Panettone is a wasted portion of my life that i will never get back--i'm assuming English is not his first language and that is why he makes so little sense. but that quote above just kills me and says so much about what a quintessentially delusional and myopic utopian masturbator he is. yeah Panettone, most Europeans don't have guns, just the state (in its various forms) does in each country, and where better to look at what a fucked and precarious situation that is, then in Germany and all of the aspiring Nazis and far-right extremists the police and military are lousy with there...amassing arms, training, mobilizing, etc....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/world/europe/germany-military-neo-nazis-ksk.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/world/europe/germany-nazi-infiltration.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-report.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/world/europe/german-special-forces-far-right.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-chat-group.html

yeah Panettone, thank god that these are the only people in Germany with the weapons...it's good to see that privileged white hypocrites hiding behind security and privilege talk the same cowardly shit in Europe as they do here in the USA--the USA currently plagued with armed confrontations escalating in the streets and far-right terrorist groups armed to the teeth plotting to kidnap politicians (greetings from Michigan love) and mobilizing and training...

...in addition to the daily issues with safety when ones lives around increasingly desperate criminals that poverty is squeezing, this country is collapsing and--just like across Europe--the far-right shift and growing threat from organized racists and xenophobes is more real than it has been in a long time...

...but this is all ok because as things continue to get worse, privileged kooks like Panettone can Tweet some clever and edgy shit i'm sure...

[close]

My man Wendell, I feel I have to correct you here, as in Europe the main threat to ordinary people like you and me is not the far-right. The only far-right attack I can think of in the last 20 years is Anders Brevik. Whereas we had dozens and dozens of bombings/shootings/beheadings by islamist radicals. Almost a hundred in the last 3 years Europe-wide.... You probably don't hear about most of them in the US, but it goes on and on, and it's been like that for over 20 years. I came very close myself to being blown up by a bomb in the Paris metro back in 95. We actually had so many of these attacks in the last few years in France, I was worried some far-right nut would go and shoot arabs/muslims in "retaliation", but nothing happened, fortunately. It's a really fucked situation, you can't reason with religious people.

Also to whoever said it: yes Lil Wayne has some bonafide classics in his repertoire. Undeniable.

Finally I gotta say it's real strange for Europeans to see left-wing leaning guys defending gun rights. Like Killer Mike from RTJ for instance. It's just a mystery to us.

Can I ask why it's a mystery that lefties are into gun rights? What about guns, other than traditional/contemporary social-political narrative, makes them a right wing issue? I mean, in the states, it was the right wing capitalist class that initially enacted gun control laws to keep firearms from the hands of poor with the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Mulford Act set by Reagan in California in 1967 to keep gun from people of color.

I'm just curious on your take. thanks

[TheLurper]

My man Wendell, I feel I have to correct you here, as in Europe the main threat to ordinary people like you and me is not the far-right. The only far-right attack I can think of in the last 20 years is Anders Brevik.

Far-right attacks are up in Europe and just as they are up in the West as a whole.

https://www.visionofhumanity.org/resources/
https://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/GTI-2020-web-1.pdf

[IUTSM]

^^^
and that's only increased in 2020. certain cities have sections that are like war zones whenever the right shows up. I'm also curious if those statistics take into account attacks on people of color, particularly black males, by civilians and LE.

[cucktard]

I’m reminded of Bowling for Columbine, and an interview i saw with Michael Moore afterwards. And he said something that kind of took me by surprise, since the whole film focused on lack of gun control.

Basically that gun control by itself is not really the point. He went on to explain, but ill put out my own thoughts here.

I think we know the point, and we think gun control is a path towards it. Just like many of us feel that Universal Healthcare is not an end, in itself, but a step towards a goal.

The goal being a saner, less violent society.

I used to think the US was more ‘Leave it to Beaver’ than ‘Rambo’, but I don’t feel that way anymore. It is a society that mythologizes violence, its revolutions, its Wild West justice, the only way to deal with tyranny is through war, its endless military incursions since the turn of the century its founding.

It’s cartoons, its comic books, its TV, popular music (since we’re talking about Lil Wayne), everything is dripping with violence. And gun ownership, and the logic that gives birth to it is all found in this culture where violence is taken for granted.

So i think we all intuitively understand this, and gun control has the emotional appeal that we can legislate a more peaceful society. Just like universal healthcare feels like a step towards institutionalizing human caring over selfishness. 

Which, i think is true. What is allowed and permissible shapes and is shaped by the culture at large. Canadians are generally gentler Americans, because the cultural myths of violence are not as much a part of our cultural identity. Even though we have similar levels of gun ownership, they are almost largely hunting, not defense.

So Gun Control will not work on its own, and an end unto itself. The cultural identification with the right to use deadly violence to settle problems is so ingrained that any attempt to soften it is met with a backlash. It has to be backed up with other challenges to the dominant narrative of violence. Especially the military and its part of the American mythos.

It’s important that the social and emotional NEED for guns is reduced when reducing the actual guns.

[behavioralguide]

/thread

[OldieButFrenchie]

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Europe is heaven. Safe with good people.

[close]

going back and forth with Panettone is a wasted portion of my life that i will never get back--i'm assuming English is not his first language and that is why he makes so little sense. but that quote above just kills me and says so much about what a quintessentially delusional and myopic utopian masturbator he is. yeah Panettone, most Europeans don't have guns, just the state (in its various forms) does in each country, and where better to look at what a fucked and precarious situation that is, then in Germany and all of the aspiring Nazis and far-right extremists the police and military are lousy with there...amassing arms, training, mobilizing, etc....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/world/europe/germany-military-neo-nazis-ksk.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/world/europe/germany-nazi-infiltration.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-report.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/world/europe/german-special-forces-far-right.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-chat-group.html

yeah Panettone, thank god that these are the only people in Germany with the weapons...it's good to see that privileged white hypocrites hiding behind security and privilege talk the same cowardly shit in Europe as they do here in the USA--the USA currently plagued with armed confrontations escalating in the streets and far-right terrorist groups armed to the teeth plotting to kidnap politicians (greetings from Michigan love) and mobilizing and training...

...in addition to the daily issues with safety when ones lives around increasingly desperate criminals that poverty is squeezing, this country is collapsing and--just like across Europe--the far-right shift and growing threat from organized racists and xenophobes is more real than it has been in a long time...

...but this is all ok because as things continue to get worse, privileged kooks like Panettone can Tweet some clever and edgy shit i'm sure...

[close]

My man Wendell, I feel I have to correct you here, as in Europe the main threat to ordinary people like you and me is not the far-right. The only far-right attack I can think of in the last 20 years is Anders Brevik. Whereas we had dozens and dozens of bombings/shootings/beheadings by islamist radicals. Almost a hundred in the last 3 years Europe-wide.... You probably don't hear about most of them in the US, but it goes on and on, and it's been like that for over 20 years. I came very close myself to being blown up by a bomb in the Paris metro back in 95. We actually had so many of these attacks in the last few years in France, I was worried some far-right nut would go and shoot arabs/muslims in "retaliation", but nothing happened, fortunately. It's a really fucked situation, you can't reason with religious people.

Also to whoever said it: yes Lil Wayne has some bonafide classics in his repertoire. Undeniable.

Finally I gotta say it's real strange for Europeans to see left-wing leaning guys defending gun rights. Like Killer Mike from RTJ for instance. It's just a mystery to us.

[close]

Can I ask why it's a mystery that lefties are into gun rights? What about guns, other than traditional/contemporary social-political narrative, makes them a right wing issue? I mean, in the states, it was the right wing capitalist class that initially enacted gun control laws to keep firearms from the hands of poor with the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Mulford Act set by Reagan in California in 1967 to keep gun from people of color.

I'm just curious on your take. thanks

plain and simple, I think most euros view guns as a redneck thing. Maybe cause the only people who own firearms in Europe for leisure are hunters? also isn't the NRA super right-wing?

[IUTSM]

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Europe is heaven. Safe with good people.

[close]

going back and forth with Panettone is a wasted portion of my life that i will never get back--i'm assuming English is not his first language and that is why he makes so little sense. but that quote above just kills me and says so much about what a quintessentially delusional and myopic utopian masturbator he is. yeah Panettone, most Europeans don't have guns, just the state (in its various forms) does in each country, and where better to look at what a fucked and precarious situation that is, then in Germany and all of the aspiring Nazis and far-right extremists the police and military are lousy with there...amassing arms, training, mobilizing, etc....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/world/europe/germany-military-neo-nazis-ksk.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/world/europe/germany-nazi-infiltration.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-report.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/world/europe/german-special-forces-far-right.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-chat-group.html

yeah Panettone, thank god that these are the only people in Germany with the weapons...it's good to see that privileged white hypocrites hiding behind security and privilege talk the same cowardly shit in Europe as they do here in the USA--the USA currently plagued with armed confrontations escalating in the streets and far-right terrorist groups armed to the teeth plotting to kidnap politicians (greetings from Michigan love) and mobilizing and training...

...in addition to the daily issues with safety when ones lives around increasingly desperate criminals that poverty is squeezing, this country is collapsing and--just like across Europe--the far-right shift and growing threat from organized racists and xenophobes is more real than it has been in a long time...

...but this is all ok because as things continue to get worse, privileged kooks like Panettone can Tweet some clever and edgy shit i'm sure...

[close]

My man Wendell, I feel I have to correct you here, as in Europe the main threat to ordinary people like you and me is not the far-right. The only far-right attack I can think of in the last 20 years is Anders Brevik. Whereas we had dozens and dozens of bombings/shootings/beheadings by islamist radicals. Almost a hundred in the last 3 years Europe-wide.... You probably don't hear about most of them in the US, but it goes on and on, and it's been like that for over 20 years. I came very close myself to being blown up by a bomb in the Paris metro back in 95. We actually had so many of these attacks in the last few years in France, I was worried some far-right nut would go and shoot arabs/muslims in "retaliation", but nothing happened, fortunately. It's a really fucked situation, you can't reason with religious people.

Also to whoever said it: yes Lil Wayne has some bonafide classics in his repertoire. Undeniable.

Finally I gotta say it's real strange for Europeans to see left-wing leaning guys defending gun rights. Like Killer Mike from RTJ for instance. It's just a mystery to us.

[close]

Can I ask why it's a mystery that lefties are into gun rights? What about guns, other than traditional/contemporary social-political narrative, makes them a right wing issue? I mean, in the states, it was the right wing capitalist class that initially enacted gun control laws to keep firearms from the hands of poor with the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Mulford Act set by Reagan in California in 1967 to keep gun from people of color.

I'm just curious on your take. thanks

[close]

plain and simple, I think most euros view guns as a redneck thing. Maybe cause the only people who own firearms in Europe for leisure are hunters? also isn't the NRA super right-wing?

thanks for your take. A portion of the States views guns as redneck thing too. The NRA is super right wing and has unfortunately controlled an extreme media narrative one one side whereas the centrist Democrats/liberals have controlled a narrative on the other side. So it goes. Again, thanks for your thoughts.

[Deputy Wendell]

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Europe is heaven. Safe with good people.

[close]

going back and forth with Panettone is a wasted portion of my life that i will never get back--i'm assuming English is not his first language and that is why he makes so little sense. but that quote above just kills me and says so much about what a quintessentially delusional and myopic utopian masturbator he is. yeah Panettone, most Europeans don't have guns, just the state (in its various forms) does in each country, and where better to look at what a fucked and precarious situation that is, then in Germany and all of the aspiring Nazis and far-right extremists the police and military are lousy with there...amassing arms, training, mobilizing, etc....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/world/europe/germany-military-neo-nazis-ksk.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/world/europe/germany-nazi-infiltration.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-report.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/world/europe/german-special-forces-far-right.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/world/europe/germany-police-far-right-chat-group.html

yeah Panettone, thank god that these are the only people in Germany with the weapons...it's good to see that privileged white hypocrites hiding behind security and privilege talk the same cowardly shit in Europe as they do here in the USA--the USA currently plagued with armed confrontations escalating in the streets and far-right terrorist groups armed to the teeth plotting to kidnap politicians (greetings from Michigan love) and mobilizing and training...

...in addition to the daily issues with safety when ones lives around increasingly desperate criminals that poverty is squeezing, this country is collapsing and--just like across Europe--the far-right shift and growing threat from organized racists and xenophobes is more real than it has been in a long time...

...but this is all ok because as things continue to get worse, privileged kooks like Panettone can Tweet some clever and edgy shit i'm sure...

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My man Wendell, I feel I have to correct you here, as in Europe the main threat to ordinary people like you and me is not the far-right. The only far-right attack I can think of in the last 20 years is Anders Brevik. Whereas we had dozens and dozens of bombings/shootings/beheadings by islamist radicals. Almost a hundred in the last 3 years Europe-wide.... You probably don't hear about most of them in the US, but it goes on and on, and it's been like that for over 20 years. I came very close myself to being blown up by a bomb in the Paris metro back in 95. We actually had so many of these attacks in the last few years in France, I was worried some far-right nut would go and shoot arabs/muslims in "retaliation", but nothing happened, fortunately. It's a really fucked situation, you can't reason with religious people.

Also to whoever said it: yes Lil Wayne has some bonafide classics in his repertoire. Undeniable.

Finally I gotta say it's real strange for Europeans to see left-wing leaning guys defending gun rights. Like Killer Mike from RTJ for instance. It's just a mystery to us.

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Can I ask why it's a mystery that lefties are into gun rights? What about guns, other than traditional/contemporary social-political narrative, makes them a right wing issue? I mean, in the states, it was the right wing capitalist class that initially enacted gun control laws to keep firearms from the hands of poor with the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Mulford Act set by Reagan in California in 1967 to keep gun from people of color.

I'm just curious on your take. thanks

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plain and simple, I think most euros view guns as a redneck thing. Maybe cause the only people who own firearms in Europe for leisure are hunters? also isn't the NRA super right-wing?

Frenchie...brother...thanks for the conversation. me and many other gun "advocates" in the US will never be members of the NRA, but their history is not a simple one to tell. funny enough, since you mention Killer Mike above, what he breaks down here in just a few minutes is enough to complicate lazy generalizations about the complexity of the NRA's history:



Killer Mike is seriously one of the most perspicacious political and social commentators out there these days

[OldieButFrenchie]

->  IusedToSkateMore  : glad to converse in a civilised manner!   

->Lurper: I've been trying to answer you in detail for 30 minutes and the slap website keeps bugging so fuck it....anyways considering all the shit that happened in Paris and Brussels these last few years, you can probably understand where I'm coming from. and that shit is not over.

->Wendell: thanks that was an interesting watch! agree on Killer Mike 100%. but I like him more as a rapper hahaha.....I got to see RTJ live before the pandemic and it was an awesome show!

[Uh Oh]

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If you gun guys were as hard as you want to be seen, you wouldnt need a gun. you just wanna be hard without working for it... soft mans power multiplier.

I prefer my knife collection, at least I can use them in a productive way on a daily basis. and if i need one for self defense, at least it is personal.

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i teach literature classes in the humanities, one of my last posts in "Music" was about how important the Cocteau Twins are in my life, etc. etc. etc....so which of us "gun guys" who post in here are trying to act "hard"? do you have anything to say that actually addresses all of the leftist "gun guys" who post in here? simply put, do you have anything to say that isn't just a lazy used-up cliche?

and poor sweet Panettone...are you still sniffing around this thread? kisses to you love...

Ironically both Robin Guthrie and Liz Fraser are hard, stubborn people. Beautiful art made in a tumultuous space.

[Deputy Wendell]

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If you gun guys were as hard as you want to be seen, you wouldnt need a gun. you just wanna be hard without working for it... soft mans power multiplier.

I prefer my knife collection, at least I can use them in a productive way on a daily basis. and if i need one for self defense, at least it is personal.

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i teach literature classes in the humanities, one of my last posts in "Music" was about how important the Cocteau Twins are in my life, etc. etc. etc....so which of us "gun guys" who post in here are trying to act "hard"? do you have anything to say that actually addresses all of the leftist "gun guys" who post in here? simply put, do you have anything to say that isn't just a lazy used-up cliche?

and poor sweet Panettone...are you still sniffing around this thread? kisses to you love...

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Ironically both Robin Guthrie and Liz Fraser are hard, stubborn people. Beautiful art made in a tumultuous space.

[EdLawndale]

Makes more sense why Lil Wayne buddied up to Trump recently...he wants that pardon for sure.

[OldieButFrenchie]

->Wendell

cheers Frenchie...we do get word of most of the attacks that you mention, but that's completely missing the point of my post. the point is, Europe is experiencing its own shift to the far right in places--fuck man, you're in France, how long has your country been dealing with the Le Pen family? how much power and support do they wield still? what does " “ensauvagement” mean exactly and how and who is this word rhetorically effective on?


ok now I have a bit of time I'll try to answer your questions. So basically the Front National and the Le Pen family have been big in French politics since the 80's. They are still quite powerful, in some regions they get support up to maybe 30% of the electorate. In the Paris region where I'm from, they are quite weak, less than 10%. But you have to understand they are not the KKK. They've had several arab elected officials for instance. They do have ties to extremist groups, but they try to hide that. On the political spectrum, you could say they are pretty close to Trump IMO.
“ensauvagement” means "becoming wild" and the term has been used to describe minors who are repeat offenders. It kind of started with Chevenement (socialist interior minister) talking about "wildlings" (sauvageons) in the 80's. I think some US politicians talked about "super-predators" right? It's kind of the same thing. The "tough on crime" stance basically.

To get back to far-right violence, we have not really seen anything major in France since the skinhead groups of the 80's. Paris used to be kind of a battleground for skinheads and redskins in the 80's, and I'm happy to say the far-right groups have been basically hunted to death. Remember there was a skinhead in "La Haine"? Well that's clearly a thing of the past and it was already when the movie came out.

If you wanna know more, there's a whole documentary on youtube about that era. I was into punk then and I lived like the tail-end of that.....



so in the 80's, those far-right groups/gangs were scary. But nowadays, as you know, we have to worry about fanatics of a different kind who are way more dangerous....Ever since the Charlie Hebdo attacks, we've had djihadist attacks every few months in France.

edit: damn we got pretty far from Lil Wayne and his legal troubles!

[Brguy]

How stupid someone must be if they're that rich and still can't get a permit to carry a gun? Did he go to jail before or something? That's the only reason I can think for owning a illegal gun in this case.