Author Topic: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad  (Read 9409 times)

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sus

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #90 on: January 13, 2021, 09:53:32 AM »
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Reynolds left emerica because emerica did not want to renew his contract.
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Your comments in this thread have been fairly agreeable.

I do disagree that Reynolds doesn't care about money. I worked for a clothing brand he was trying to get onto and the conversation was all about money - which is why he ended up at RVCA as they put the biggest salary on the table. That was what he was after. The fact that a brand would do fuck all to market him didn't matter. It was money and nothing more.

However, this bit I've quoted above is totally untrue.
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Not surprised as he probably has to rely mainly on shoes/clothing sponsor to bring food to his table.
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Yeah.

Reynolds left because he wanted to wear different shoes and try something different after two decades of riding for the same company, it wasn't because Emerica didn't want to renew. I highly doubt they would refuse to renew his contract when there were still plenty of Reynolds shoes in the catalog for future seasons. He also left before anything had fully been negotiated at vans, so there was no guarantee that he was even going to be announced to the team at the time he left.

ilikebigbutts

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #91 on: January 13, 2021, 10:02:27 AM »
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I see ownership in a way like Spanky is doing Baker graphics, or other older pros are now doing back-end stuff for brands.

Having Reynolds and Koston as part owners of both 'es and Emerica whould have rejuvinated the company, and probably kept a tighter team without having so many people leaving and creating a sort of identity hole.

In the end Nike or Vans or any other bigger shoes brand doesn't offer this but pays well and it's a great way for an aging professional to fade out.

Now basically all SoleTech brands have lost a lot of history and a lot of branding that even Koston or Reynolds brought to the table.
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This literally.
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idk man. This board is filled with older heads saying 40+ year old skateboarders would have rejuvenated a dying small footwear company. do younger kids really care much about either Koston or Reynolds? No doubt they are legends but obviously having Reynolds on wasn't cutting it for Emerica towards the end. would I have loved to see both have ownership? Yes, but I don't think it would save either brand (Reynolds owned Altamont and that shit still went under). the big companies offer the best contracts and can afford the most advertising and that's that. This board just circle jerks around everything these brands have messed up over the years but in reality, the second the big names came in with good money it was done no matter what, it just does not make sense to turn that down.

Lets be real, you and everyone you know has been skating nike and vans for the past decade and that is not gonna change anytime soon. I think we can stop talking about this on every soletech/lakai thread.
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Fuck knows, but what's for sure is kids couldn't a spec of a damn about fuckin' Soletech. And I'm pretty sure that if younger skaters were privy to the fact Emerica or eS is owned by it they'd be pretty bummed also. I know my couple of emerica fan mates were when they realised it's affiliation with etnies.. In the Uk etnies is kinda some wasteman shopping centre brand shit.

It's sometimes weird coming on here, I forget how in real life a lot of people who skate don't actually delve into the background of things too deep, kinda wish I was naive to some of this bullshit too...
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Did the same kids just realize Nike SB is actually affiliated with Nike? Not cool Nike, the Nike your mom bought you from mega-chain-x as a kid. That weird Nike old people wear and so on.
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If you spoke to a young person on which was cool, nike or etnies? I think you'd be sadly surprised man.

I just don't think 'skater owned' companies workout for new generations when said skater becomes totally irrelevant, there's no face, it's just another company, especially when you realise that an even bigger company owns all 3. Hence why people are saying if Koston or Reynolds had ownership over the 2 other brands it probably would have helped over the last decade... maybe? When the company seems like 'just another company' it's all down to marketing and guess who trumps that?

I think the world's moved on too much in the last decade for these boarderline-skaterowned/corpo cyborgs companies i.e soletech and lakai, there's a dwindling market for it now. No one gives a shit anymore unless you have the small business 'mindfulness' direction of better product, more ethically produced/sourced and backed by likeminded skaters, ie Last Resort, although some of those points are contested, it's still an attempt that people can get behind. The other 4 companies are offering nothing different to nike other than nostalgia and the fake 'bbUt wER'rE sKatEr OwNed' puppy eyes of guilt effect on all the older heads lol.
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You're probably right, and I agree with everything you said.

I feel that there has been a huge gap little over 10 years ago where "skater owned" footwear brands didn't fought back the big Corpo brands or maybe they have underestimated them. During this time, those ownership deals could have "maybe" saved the face of Soletech/Lakai/DVS ?  Too late now.

Too late now yes, but even getting rid of drew now is not gonna save emerica, why not go down with Drew on board, honoring all his contributions thus far.
I could see this ďrestructuringĒ of emerica turning into  another creative hiatus like the one eS had.

KDP

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #92 on: January 13, 2021, 10:10:57 AM »
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I see ownership in a way like Spanky is doing Baker graphics, or other older pros are now doing back-end stuff for brands.

Having Reynolds and Koston as part owners of both 'es and Emerica whould have rejuvinated the company, and probably kept a tighter team without having so many people leaving and creating a sort of identity hole.

In the end Nike or Vans or any other bigger shoes brand doesn't offer this but pays well and it's a great way for an aging professional to fade out.

Now basically all SoleTech brands have lost a lot of history and a lot of branding that even Koston or Reynolds brought to the table.
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This literally.
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idk man. This board is filled with older heads saying 40+ year old skateboarders would have rejuvenated a dying small footwear company. do younger kids really care much about either Koston or Reynolds? No doubt they are legends but obviously having Reynolds on wasn't cutting it for Emerica towards the end. would I have loved to see both have ownership? Yes, but I don't think it would save either brand (Reynolds owned Altamont and that shit still went under). the big companies offer the best contracts and can afford the most advertising and that's that. This board just circle jerks around everything these brands have messed up over the years but in reality, the second the big names came in with good money it was done no matter what, it just does not make sense to turn that down.

Lets be real, you and everyone you know has been skating nike and vans for the past decade and that is not gonna change anytime soon. I think we can stop talking about this on every soletech/lakai thread.
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Fuck knows, but what's for sure is kids couldn't a spec of a damn about fuckin' Soletech. And I'm pretty sure that if younger skaters were privy to the fact Emerica or eS is owned by it they'd be pretty bummed also. I know my couple of emerica fan mates were when they realised it's affiliation with etnies.. In the Uk etnies is kinda some wasteman shopping centre brand shit.

It's sometimes weird coming on here, I forget how in real life a lot of people who skate don't actually delve into the background of things too deep, kinda wish I was naive to some of this bullshit too...
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Did the same kids just realize Nike SB is actually affiliated with Nike? Not cool Nike, the Nike your mom bought you from mega-chain-x as a kid. That weird Nike old people wear and so on.
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If you spoke to a young person on which was cool, nike or etnies? I think you'd be sadly surprised man.

I just don't think 'skater owned' companies workout for new generations when said skater becomes totally irrelevant, there's no face, it's just another company, especially when you realise that an even bigger company owns all 3. Hence why people are saying if Koston or Reynolds had ownership over the 2 other brands it probably would have helped over the last decade... maybe? When the company seems like 'just another company' it's all down to marketing and guess who trumps that?

I think the world's moved on too much in the last decade for these boarderline-skaterowned/corpo cyborgs companies i.e soletech and lakai, there's a dwindling market for it now. No one gives a shit anymore unless you have the small business 'mindfulness' direction of better product, more ethically produced/sourced and backed by likeminded skaters, ie Last Resort, although some of those points are contested, it's still an attempt that people can get behind. The other 4 companies are offering nothing different to nike other than nostalgia and the fake 'bbUt wER'rE sKatEr OwNed' puppy eyes of guilt effect on all the older heads lol.
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You're probably right, and I agree with everything you said.

I feel that there has been a huge gap little over 10 years ago where "skater owned" footwear brands didn't fought back the big Corpo brands or maybe they have underestimated them. During this time, those ownership deals could have "maybe" saved the face of Soletech/Lakai/DVS ?  Too late now.
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Too late now yes, but even getting rid of drew now is not gonna save emerica, why not go down with Drew on board, honoring all his contributions thus far.
I could see this ďrestructuringĒ of emerica turning into  another creative hiatus like the one eS had.

This angle is based on a myth that emerica didn't want to renew his contract, which has been pointed out as untrue.

Glurmpz

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #93 on: January 13, 2021, 10:19:55 AM »
Gotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!!

HORSES

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #94 on: January 13, 2021, 01:38:59 PM »
Didn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?

Glurmpz

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #95 on: January 13, 2021, 01:56:57 PM »
Didn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?

I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.

But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.

radcunt

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #96 on: January 13, 2021, 02:04:37 PM »
Oooh a nice backside Prissy Trimble!! 

HORSES

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #97 on: January 13, 2021, 02:14:46 PM »
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Didn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?
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I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.

But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.

I remember reading an interview with one of the riders at the time (maybe Mike Anderson?) that there was no transparency from eS, and one day the program was just done with no warning.

You can be upset at both.

heckler

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #98 on: January 13, 2021, 02:22:16 PM »
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Didn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?
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I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.

But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.
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I remember reading an interview with one of the riders at the time (maybe Mike Anderson?) that there was no transparency from eS, and one day the program was just done with no warning.

You can be upset at both.

From Bobby Worrest's Chrome Ball interview a few years ago:
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CBI: Something that Iím still trying to wrap my head around is what happened with the end of that first era of eS. Didnít you just put out a shoe, like, a week before?

Bobby Worrest: Yeah, Iíd just put out a shoe and a little video part thing before all that went down.

CBI: Did you see the end coming?

Bobby Worrest: Yes and no. Weíd gone through multiple dudes at the company pretty quickly. And Scuba had told me at one point that we werenít looking so good. I guess theyíd hired some guy to try turning the company around but we never really heard anything more about it. And then one day, I get a call from Don Brown. Itís over.
Ha SLAP's resident libtard and NY pro cocksucker.

Glurmpz

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #99 on: January 13, 2021, 02:42:18 PM »
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Didn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?
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I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.

But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.
[close]

I remember reading an interview with one of the riders at the time (maybe Mike Anderson?) that there was no transparency from eS, and one day the program was just done with no warning.

You can be upset at both.
[close]

From Bobby Worrest's Chrome Ball interview a few years ago:
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CBI: Something that Iím still trying to wrap my head around is what happened with the end of that first era of eS. Didnít you just put out a shoe, like, a week before?

Bobby Worrest: Yeah, Iíd just put out a shoe and a little video part thing before all that went down.

CBI: Did you see the end coming?

Bobby Worrest: Yes and no. Weíd gone through multiple dudes at the company pretty quickly. And Scuba had told me at one point that we werenít looking so good. I guess theyíd hired some guy to try turning the company around but we never really heard anything more about it. And then one day, I get a call from Don Brown. Itís over.
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So yeah, sounds like there were warning signs, and then Don called Worrest to make it official. Doesn't sound like Manderson got any notice though.

The thing is - I'm not bummed at Sole Tech OR Nike etc for moves like that. It's business and all I'm saying is hating on ST for doing it but worshipping at the altar of Nike etc is silly. They care even less about skaters than a company like Sole Tech. At the end of the day I find this all really interesting because I've never really factored behind the scenes business into my like/dislike for brands. I just care about the skating and products.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 02:58:09 PM by Glurmpz »

RichardBarkley

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #100 on: January 13, 2021, 03:10:41 PM »
Gotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!!

Well put

Prince

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #101 on: January 13, 2021, 04:12:48 PM »
i've really enjoyed the tentacles of this thread. it's gone in a few interesting directions and prompted quite a bit of discussion. slap is really interesting in how much it can make you think about skateboarding holistically from the act, to pros and kooks, to the product, to the industry - it's fun, but as others have mentioned, also kind of makes your skating experience a lot more loaded than it seems for friends who don't care about slap/background info/company ownership blah blah etc.

some days i feel like i get my skateboarding dose without physically getting a skate in, just by soaking up all this jazz. much more fulfilling than just watching skate vids when you're not skating. it's cool.
kiss your enemies like you know you should, then jerk your body like a horny pony would

Glurmpz

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #102 on: January 13, 2021, 05:41:47 PM »
The more this subject comes up on Slap, the more I realize my support for Sole Tech brands in 2021 is akin to the guys who still fucked with Powell after the 80's. Lol. I guess the shit just plain ain't cool anymore to the newer generation.

HugeBodBoyle

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #103 on: January 13, 2021, 05:43:01 PM »
I wonder how much of Emerica being seen as "on the ropes" is due to their largely So-Cal based team juxtaposed against a world where skateboarding is being seen more and more as a less Cali-centric thing?

Also, how much of it has to do with the influx of streetwear culture in skateboarding and that butting up against the idea that you probably wouldn't wear some of these brands clothing with a pair of Figgy shoes?

ilikebigbutts

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #104 on: January 13, 2021, 05:43:39 PM »
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Gotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!!
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Well put

Nobody was offering koston or drew money when they left ST. They wanted to stay and keep contributing to the company, in exchange of a well deserved part ownership or salary increase and were rejected instead.

Glurmpz

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #105 on: January 13, 2021, 06:12:30 PM »
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Gotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!!
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Well put
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Nobody was offering koston or drew money when they left ST. They wanted to stay and keep contributing to the company, in exchange of a well deserved part ownership or salary increase and were rejected instead.

Not quite accurate.

From Koston's CBI interview...

"For years on eS, I had a standing offer at Lakai. And this was not only to be part of something with my friends, but also as part owner! Partial ownership of eS for me was never an option, I was only ever going to be a contracted rider there. But that only lasts for so long. After that, Iím done...  I left a pretty big contract at eS but I had to be realistic about things. I made the decision that I needed to be an owner and be part of this thing forever. But obviously, that changed. In reality, itís not as pretty as it sounds. Owning shit is not that great, especially with partners that are questionable."

CHONGO

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #106 on: January 13, 2021, 06:13:25 PM »
karate chop!!!!!!

ilikebigbutts

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #107 on: January 13, 2021, 06:56:56 PM »
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Gotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!!
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Well put
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Nobody was offering koston or drew money when they left ST. They wanted to stay and keep contributing to the company, in exchange of a well deserved part ownership or salary increase and were rejected instead.
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Not quite accurate.

From Koston's CBI interview...

"For years on eS, I had a standing offer at Lakai. And this was not only to be part of something with my friends, but also as part owner! Partial ownership of eS for me was never an option, I was only ever going to be a contracted rider there. But that only lasts for so long. After that, Iím done...  I left a pretty big contract at eS but I had to be realistic about things. I made the decision that I needed to be an owner and be part of this thing forever. But obviously, that changed. In reality, itís not as pretty as it sounds. Owning shit is not that great, especially with partners that are questionable."

You just confirmed what I said, he wanted ownership and they said no, he didnít leave because some big corporate was offering him more money that ST couldnít match.

Glurmpz

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #108 on: January 13, 2021, 07:29:12 PM »
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Gotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!!
[close]

Well put
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Nobody was offering koston or drew money when they left ST. They wanted to stay and keep contributing to the company, in exchange of a well deserved part ownership or salary increase and were rejected instead.
[close]

Not quite accurate.

From Koston's CBI interview...

"For years on eS, I had a standing offer at Lakai. And this was not only to be part of something with my friends, but also as part owner! Partial ownership of eS for me was never an option, I was only ever going to be a contracted rider there. But that only lasts for so long. After that, Iím done...  I left a pretty big contract at eS but I had to be realistic about things. I made the decision that I needed to be an owner and be part of this thing forever. But obviously, that changed. In reality, itís not as pretty as it sounds. Owning shit is not that great, especially with partners that are questionable."
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You just confirmed what I said, he wanted ownership and they said no, he didnít leave because some big corporate was offering him more money that ST couldnít match.

You said no one was offering Koston money, which is directly refuted by his own words. Lakai had an offer for years, and he could get ownership too (which he says in hindsight is not actually a great deal). I will agree it sounds like ownership WAS the bigger motivator at the time though. But there most certainly was an offer, that's why I said "not quite accurate".
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 07:47:01 PM by Glurmpz »

roger baglady

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #109 on: January 13, 2021, 07:50:40 PM »
i thought this was that nigga who usedta eat raw fish and peanut butter at pier 7.
 free max bee

Glurmpz

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #110 on: January 13, 2021, 09:23:09 PM »
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Didn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?
[close]

I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.

But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.
[close]

I remember reading an interview with one of the riders at the time (maybe Mike Anderson?) that there was no transparency from eS, and one day the program was just done with no warning.

You can be upset at both.
[close]

It was virtually overnight. No one internally really knew either. Maybe the executive team. One day people came in and their jobs and team rider slots and the brand were gone and everyone was scrambling to fabricate a narrative. "Creative hiatus" was a lie. Banks were involved. It was a multi million dollar budget cut essentially. In other words "they are just going to abandon skateboarding and skateboarders when it's not lucrative anymore!"

Damn. So it was that abrupt. Weak.

It doesn't affect my opinion on their products and team, but interesting to hear it was as bleak as a lot of people suspected when the whole "creative hiatus" explanation was put out there. Didn't they come back only a year later or something? Wonder what changed? Less investment in team for sure.

ilikebigbutts

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #111 on: January 13, 2021, 09:37:25 PM »
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Gotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!!
[close]

Well put
[close]

Nobody was offering koston or drew money when they left ST. They wanted to stay and keep contributing to the company, in exchange of a well deserved part ownership or salary increase and were rejected instead.
[close]

Not quite accurate.

From Koston's CBI interview...

"For years on eS, I had a standing offer at Lakai. And this was not only to be part of something with my friends, but also as part owner! Partial ownership of eS for me was never an option, I was only ever going to be a contracted rider there. But that only lasts for so long. After that, Iím done...  I left a pretty big contract at eS but I had to be realistic about things. I made the decision that I needed to be an owner and be part of this thing forever. But obviously, that changed. In reality, itís not as pretty as it sounds. Owning shit is not that great, especially with partners that are questionable."
[close]

You just confirmed what I said, he wanted ownership and they said no, he didnít leave because some big corporate was offering him more money that ST couldnít match.
[close]

You said no one was offering Koston money, which is directly refuted by his own words. Lakai had an offer for years, and he could get ownership too (which he says in hindsight is not actually a great deal). I will agree it sounds like ownership WAS the bigger motivator at the time though. But there most certainly was an offer, that's why I said "not quite accurate".

Ok, what I meant was that they didn't quit because some other company, big corporate or not, offered them more money or ownership, they both wanted and were motivated to continue to stay in the brand and ST said no because they didn't want to give a small percentage of the company to them, even though they had contributed so much for so many years. Reynolds pretty much used all of his most productive time as a skater with them.

Glurmpz

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #112 on: January 13, 2021, 10:15:30 PM »
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Didn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?
[close]

I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.

But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.
[close]

I remember reading an interview with one of the riders at the time (maybe Mike Anderson?) that there was no transparency from eS, and one day the program was just done with no warning.

You can be upset at both.
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It was virtually overnight. No one internally really knew either. Maybe the executive team. One day people came in and their jobs and team rider slots and the brand were gone and everyone was scrambling to fabricate a narrative. "Creative hiatus" was a lie. Banks were involved. It was a multi million dollar budget cut essentially. In other words "they are just going to abandon skateboarding and skateboarders when it's not lucrative anymore!"
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Damn. So it was that abrupt. Weak.

It doesn't affect my opinion on their products and team, but interesting to hear it was as bleak as a lot of people suspected when the whole "creative hiatus" explanation was put out there. Didn't they come back only a year later or something? Wonder what changed? Less investment in team for sure.
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Very weak. Yeah, came back a few years later with very little overheard, barely paying skaters. Recycling one old shoe after another. You know, really progressive and giving back to skateboarding. Happy to see those evil "corpo" brands took care of the riders that Sole abandoned, glad so many landed on their feet. TX, Bobby, Manderson, Terps, etc. Scuba and Rattray working at Nike and so on. Ironic huh?

I personally love Accel slims, and the slim plus, and the Swift. The SLB 97 with the toe cap was so good I had about 5 pairs in a row when they remade it. Quattros look really dope, as does the Silo redone with the Quattro sole.

I don't think the recycling old shoe designs argument is a good one to make when we're comparing a company like es' to the majors like Nike. Blazer, Dunk, Bruin... ahem. The Janoski is a copy of a damn boat shoe. Most pros are lucky to get a colorway while being buried in an imageless team hundreds of riders deep. I agree it's good they're getting paid well, but Nike and the other sport brands almost exclusively rely on previous shoe designs they recycled for the skate market. I'm not hating on them for it at all - just pointing out it's a normal practice for the majors too, possibly even more so.

I don't think the major sport brands are evil, even if I wish they weren't involved in skateboarding. My reason for not liking them is because to me they represent two things - sports, and the jocks who harassed me for simply being a skateboarder during my youth. It bums me out they've infiltrated skateboarding and I genuinely do not like to see huge sport logos on shoes in media. Even still, I would never fault a pro for quitting a "core" brand to ride for the majors - you'd be dumb to turn that down. As much as I back Sole Tech, it's a new era and they have less money/relevance than ever for up and coming skaters.

Lou Strux

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #113 on: January 13, 2021, 10:35:58 PM »
Kinda wild that the Sole Tech brands were who pros aspired to sign with back in the late 90s & early 00s, where as now (bless their little hearts) theyíre practically the Duffs, or Dekline of the contemporary skate shoe industry.
Nutty.
Hang in there Sole Tech.

Glurmpz

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #114 on: January 13, 2021, 10:49:28 PM »
Kinda wild that the Sole Tech brands were who pros aspired to sign with back in the late 90s & early 00s, where as now (bless their little hearts) theyíre practically the Duffs, or Dekline of the contemporary skate shoe industry.
Nutty.
Hang in there Sole Tech.

For sure - that's what I was getting about my support for them being akin to dudes who still liked Powell post 80's. I gotta start skipping past the Sole Tech hate because it just reminds me that I'm old as fuck and the skate aesthetic that appeals to me is not very popular anymore.

That being said - that new Johnny Wilson video might have been best of the year. Hard to remember, there's been so many. But I looked past he Nikes for that one, lol.

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #115 on: January 14, 2021, 12:28:58 AM »
Etnies is the best of the three brands and has been the  most consistent of the three, in my opinion. Emerica, a close second. Es was supreme until 2006 and then they drifted away from relevance gradually. I blame it on the vulc shoe trend at that time. Really didn't do much for them aside from the Square One.

The whole Es goin under in 2012 just sounds unfortunate and not malicious from what I've seen/heard. Especially if it has something to do with banks/finances being cut/affected so abruptly. It's hard to give people enough notice when you didn't even get notice that everything was being dropped, and you have to tell your riders right after...
However, if I don't know something or am missing info about, I'm happy to be corrected.

I'll gladly still buy etnies. I think they make the best quality shoes right now: those Michelin cupsoles are incredible shoes!
Colt 45 Cannon

backagain420

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #116 on: January 14, 2021, 02:33:52 AM »
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Didn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?
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I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.

But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.
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I remember reading an interview with one of the riders at the time (maybe Mike Anderson?) that there was no transparency from eS, and one day the program was just done with no warning.

You can be upset at both.
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It was virtually overnight. No one internally really knew either. Maybe the executive team. You don't often tell people they are getting laid off before they are laid off. That's standard HR procedure. One day people came in and their jobs and team rider slots and the brand were gone and everyone was scrambling to fabricate a narrative. "Creative hiatus" was a lie. Banks were involved. Don mentioned it in an interview once. It was a multi million dollar budget cut essentially. In other words "they are just going to abandon skateboarding and skateboarders when it's not lucrative anymore!"
Slow down bro don't make up information that's untrue. Post the article where Don Brown talks about how eS was involved with banks and that's why it went on hiatus.

backagain420

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #117 on: January 14, 2021, 02:43:25 AM »
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Etnies is the best of the three brands and has been the  most consistent of the three, in my opinion. Emerica, a close second. Es was supreme until 2006 and then they drifted away from relevance gradually. I blame it on the vulc shoe trend at that time. Really didn't do much for them aside from the Square One.

The whole Es goin under in 2012 just sounds unfortunate and not malicious from what I've seen/heard. Especially if it has something to do with banks/finances being cut/affected so abruptly. It's hard to give people enough notice when you didn't even get notice that everything was being dropped, and you have to tell your riders right after...
However, if I don't know something or am missing info about, I'm happy to be corrected.

I'll gladly still buy etnies. I think they make the best quality shoes right now: those Michelin cupsoles are incredible shoes!
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And now you see the full circle journey and the beginning of the end, stemming from shitty decisions that lead to things like losing Koston, Paul, PJ, Antwuan, Penny, Mikey Taylor  (all heavies at the time) and others which causes the aforementioned chain reaction I mentioned earlier in this thread. Malicious? No. Dumb and digging their own grave? Yes. Imagine losing your brand (and hundreds of millions over the course of a decade) because you donít want to properly compensate key riders and employees with a tiny fraction of your revenue then blaming other brands and everyone but yourself for your downfall? Lol.

Edit: keep in mind around the same time Emerica lost Ellington and a few others, etnies lost Janoski. Company-wide exodus. Do you really think thatís all just a coincidence?
No bro not at all. You have to understand the relationship of industry heads and riders. I can go into detail and talk about why these riders left and did something else but it would fall on deaf ears. What you need to get the idea of riders being the main idea of the brand out of your head. What Sole tech does with their companies reflects their ideas and the riders being apart of it at that time is what promotes their ideas. You need start just looking at the branding and quality of the products before you just start talking about how they fell off.

Frank

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #118 on: January 14, 2021, 02:43:55 AM »
Edit: keep in mind around the same time Emerica lost Ellington and a few others, etnies lost Janoski. Company-wide exodus. Do you really think thatís all just a coincidence?

ellington was on supra right from the start though, that was when, 2005? janoski was already a couple years on nike and already had his pro model out by 2012. same with p-rod, who was on nike pretty early on. so i wouldn't call that a company wide exodus. koston went to lakai around fully flared. all these people have been off and well established on other companies when es kicked it/went on hiatus. it sucked most for bobby and kellen james, who just had a promodel released or were about to respectively. that kj shoe was dope as hell, like a modern sal.

Frank

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Re: Pierre Andre/Crazy Etnies Ad
« Reply #119 on: January 14, 2021, 03:07:13 AM »
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Edit: keep in mind around the same time Emerica lost Ellington and a few others, etnies lost Janoski. Company-wide exodus. Do you really think thatís all just a coincidence?
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ellington was on supra right from the start though, that was when, 2005? janoski was already a couple years on nike and already had his pro model out by 2012. same with p-rod, who was on nike pretty early on. so i wouldn't call that a company wide exodus. koston went to lakai around fully flared. all these people have been off and well established on other companies when es kicked it/went on hiatus. it sucked most for bobby and kellen james, who just had a promodel released or were about to respectively. that kj shoe was dope as hell, like a modern sal.
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This was an example completely separate from talk of the hiatus.
alright, i thought we were talking about a 1-2 year timeline of exits leading up to the hiatus. not disagreeing that these exits were signs that es/sole tech was on the relevancy downturn.