Author Topic: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?  (Read 2843 times)

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rocklobster

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2021, 09:12:17 AM »
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Edit, also, try keep weight evenly centered between legs. Lift you back leg but dont jump from one leg to the other.
[close]

This is actually kind of interesting to me. I know it's getting into major overthinking territory, but bear with me... I've felt like I have to have my weight shifted towards the nose during the setup. Otherwise I have a hard time getting my sliding foot all the way up to the nose. With weight forward, I feel like I jump and pop 'behind me' and that gives me enough room to slide up to the nose. Is that not correct? You want your weight distributed evenly?

I'll play around with it, thanks for giving me something to think about.

As a side note, I did manage this one yesterday, taking the advice of just doing the lowest possible version and focusing on keeping it straight. First one I've done that 'looked right' with a decent looking slide and push forward, so thanks a bunch, I might be back on the right track.

https://streamable.com/046axs

Last one is looking better than the ones in the garage, still a little turn but way less than before. Setup a low obstacle but with some width, that way you can focus on dragging forward and over. Instead of just upwards.
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shitsandwich

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2021, 09:19:03 AM »
You seem to have your back foot on the toe edge of the tail, your boards wants to go backside and your body counters this by going fronstside, try to ollie with your (back) toes in the middle,close to the edge of the tail (end of your board),

Edit, also, try keep weight evenly centered between legs. Lift you back leg but dont jump from one leg to the other.

Other than the shoulders thing that everyone is saying, this is true too. When every I try to get up something high I'll put my back foot farther back but it'll make me go frontside

ArgonautJon

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2021, 10:36:26 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Edit, also, try keep weight evenly centered between legs. Lift you back leg but dont jump from one leg to the other.
[close]

This is actually kind of interesting to me. I know it's getting into major overthinking territory, but bear with me... I've felt like I have to have my weight shifted towards the nose during the setup. Otherwise I have a hard time getting my sliding foot all the way up to the nose. With weight forward, I feel like I jump and pop 'behind me' and that gives me enough room to slide up to the nose. Is that not correct? You want your weight distributed evenly?

I'll play around with it, thanks for giving me something to think about.

As a side note, I did manage this one yesterday, taking the advice of just doing the lowest possible version and focusing on keeping it straight. First one I've done that 'looked right' with a decent looking slide and push forward, so thanks a bunch, I might be back on the right track.

https://streamable.com/046axs
[close]

Last one is looking better than the ones in the garage, still a little turn but way less than before. Setup a low obstacle but with some width, that way you can focus on dragging forward and over. Instead of just upwards.

Thanks! Unfortunately I still haven't figured out how to keep even a single one perfectly straight, no matter how small or slow, so I've had to just give up for now. It was just making me too frustrated and ruining skating for me. I just can't seem to do make my body do it, but I'm so damn close to having it cracked. Maybe one day...

fs1/2cab

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2021, 11:17:06 AM »
As others suggested, try some fakie ollies every now and then. And I know everybody has a different foot position for ollies, but to me it looks like you use too much of your front foot. To get that forward motion with my front foot, I angle my big toe of my front foot towards the lower, left front bolt. You know 4 bolts in the front truck, keep your foot angled to the lower ones. But as said before, everyone has their own little technique. You got this!
IG: @flowterspace

ArgonautJon

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2021, 11:29:46 AM »
As others suggested, try some fakie ollies every now and then. And I know everybody has a different foot position for ollies, but to me it looks like you use too much of your front foot. To get that forward motion with my front foot, I angle my big toe of my front foot towards the lower, left front bolt. You know 4 bolts in the front truck, keep your foot angled to the lower ones. But as said before, everyone has their own little technique. You got this!
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try them.

As a more general update -- unfortunately, it's been about a montj since my first post, and I'm still about where I started. Haven't been able to keep a single one straight. If anyone has any other ideas, I would really love to hear them. I'm pretty much at the bottom of the barrel at this point and I don't really know what to do or how to proceed.

jimgrude

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2021, 07:00:07 PM »
Quote
As a more general update -- unfortunately, it's been about a montj since my first post, and I'm still about where I started. Haven't been able to keep a single one straight. If anyone has any other ideas, I would really love to hear them. I'm pretty much at the bottom of the barrel at this point and I don't really know what to do or how to proceed.

I don't say this in an insulting way, but I don't think you're quite ready to learn ollies yet.
You've been skating for what, 7 months now? It took me over 2 years of skating to be ready to learn them properly. Ollie isn't something you should even bother with until you are very confident on your board in general, and it varies greatly from person to person how long that will take.
Most of the advice you've gotten so far has to do with what to do up until you pop the tail, but I believe your issue lies all in what your body does after the pop. I can tell from your videos that your body isn't yet comfortable enough with standing sideways, resulting in your stance unraveling once you try to ollie. Your back foot, especially, pushes the tail frontside as you're leveling out, and your front foot is helping along as well when stomping down. Also, despite having good posture with your shoulders parallel when setting up, I think your upper body resists the position somewhat, wanting to save you from landing sideways, resulting in a frontside turn.
I think the only way to remedy this is to get better at skateboarding. Ride, turn, manual, learn transition, kickturn etc. I don't know what your general skill level is here, though.

Enjoy skating and don't worry too much. Once you're able to thrash around with speed, aggression and confidence, I'm sure you'll be able to curb your bad habits with sheer will. Skateboarding is very mental, after all.

ArgonautJon

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2021, 07:33:22 PM »
Quote
Expand Quote
As a more general update -- unfortunately, it's been about a montj since my first post, and I'm still about where I started. Haven't been able to keep a single one straight. If anyone has any other ideas, I would really love to hear them. I'm pretty much at the bottom of the barrel at this point and I don't really know what to do or how to proceed.
[close]

I don't say this in an insulting way, but I don't think you're quite ready to learn ollies yet.
You've been skating for what, 7 months now? It took me over 2 years of skating to be ready to learn them properly. Ollie isn't something you should even bother with until you are very confident on your board in general, and it varies greatly from person to person how long that will take.
Most of the advice you've gotten so far has to do with what to do up until you pop the tail, but I believe your issue lies all in what your body does after the pop. I can tell from your videos that your body isn't yet comfortable enough with standing sideways, resulting in your stance unraveling once you try to ollie. Your back foot, especially, pushes the tail frontside as you're leveling out, and your front foot is helping along as well when stomping down. Also, despite having good posture with your shoulders parallel when setting up, I think your upper body resists the position somewhat, wanting to save you from landing sideways, resulting in a frontside turn.
I think the only way to remedy this is to get better at skateboarding. Ride, turn, manual, learn transition, kickturn etc. I don't know what your general skill level is here, though.

Enjoy skating and don't worry too much. Once you're able to thrash around with speed, aggression and confidence, I'm sure you'll be able to curb your bad habits with sheer will. Skateboarding is very mental, after all.

Thanks for the input. That's an unbelievably, extremely discouraging assessment but I do appreciate the honesty...

I just don't know that I'll be content to simply ride around for two years, nor do I even have that amount of time. I'm 31 so I only have a few more viable skating years left in me. Plus no access to transition, so that really limits the range of what I can do.

I think I've just gotta keep banging my head against the problem, even if it's an impossible task. Thanks for the advice though, even if it's not what I want to hear....

Mbrimson88

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2021, 08:51:09 PM »
Age is not as important as you might think, sure when I was pre twenties, I thought I would be done by 25, yet I am now almost 46 and still doing my thing on a skateboard, even with injuries and other things getting in the way over the 30+ years I have been on a skateboard, but what I find the most pleasure is not just how high I can ollie or what flip or other tricks I can still do or anything like that, but more just being able to roll around.

With that rolling around, enjoying it more and then being able to think about a couple of tricks here and there, which sometimes work, sometimes don't, but I have learned not to get frustrated and blow my top, get upset, lose it and then lose the interest in it, which I had often done when younger, as well as seeing some major meltdowns and mental breakdowns from beginners and pro skaters alike over the years, self included.

The biggest thing that I will always come back to from when I did lessons and ran skateboard events, especially for your situation, is that it is not about timeframe in reaching goals, but more in relaxing and getting your body to get more used to being on the board, which in turn will allow you to do more on it.  In any group there was always the kid who could do whatever trick we taught him within a session or two, but then most took a lot longer, some took the whole term to learn, but we worked with them and they usually got there in the end.  Some were always going to be better at it than others.

Trying the same thing over and over will not only make you more tense but will also teach your body to move in the wrong ways sometimes, and bad muscle memory is not a good thing - there are some tricks nowdays that I just do not want to land and I will almost do anything to get my feet from landing on the board rather than being comfortable landing and rolling away - 360 flips is a big one for me - but to take it back a step, if you keep practicing the trick and not doing it right, you are going to keep doing it like that a lot more often, than if you left it for a bit, just roll around and do other things, then come back to it every so often after trying other tricks.

This is why skateboarding is so completely different from anything else - there are no rules, there are no guidelines on timeframes, points of achievement, qualifications for reaching certain levels or anything else the way almost every other part of our lives can be measured, rated, outcomes achieved, etc.  Every single person is different and I know while I was growing up, I was maybe the least skilled kid on our street, with some guys I skated with going pro and others well on their way there, but I stuck with it and enjoyed it for what it was - a fun thing to do. Never forget that.

I could quote so many amazing people right now, but really, this simple wooden toy has become more to us than we would have ever thought and we have been able to do more on it than anyone ever believed possible from back when this all started.  Every day someone else pushes boundaries and does something more insane than the last guy (which we all see via social media or instant access), but it is not for us to compare ourselves to him or what he can do, more so for us to take note what others do, but for our own selves, just to do what we can do on it, on any given day and accept it for what it is.

Today things might not turn out as you planned
But there is always tomorrow, so you can try again




I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

IUTSM

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2021, 10:05:03 PM »
Someone on on a skating discord suggested that I try holding on to a rail while ollie-ing to see if I could isolate the issue without the other variables. Oddly I found that after playing with this for a couple of hours over a few days, I couldn't keep myself from turning for even one attempt.

This issue is really puzzling me and I'm worried that every time I practice I'm just digging myself deeper in the hole of bad muscle memory.

Does anyone have any suggestions about this? Am I going crazy? With my arms planted, it seems like I should be able to keep it straight, but it just doesn't seem to be possible.

https://streamable.com/f37p21
https://streamable.com/ev8oyr
https://streamable.com/f2f5b6

Thanks for any assistance you may be able to provide!

Hey dude, in the  2nd clip where you're holding onto the chainlink fence the first thing I noticed is that you're pelvis is rotating so that the front hip is going toward your back before the tail has even left the ground. Your shoulders are staying parallel but that front hip is what's turning your board back. Watch the clip and you'll see it

Frankly, you're skating just like any kid who is fresh to skating is gonna skate, you're just 31 and don't have the stamina of a 13 year old. Seems like you've got perseverance though, so get some. Hanging onto a fence is probably a bad idea, but I mighta tried something like that when I was learning too. I don't remember. just keep ollieing. once you loosen up you'll start floating straight.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 10:28:47 AM by IusedToSkateMore »
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j....soy.....

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2021, 10:46:38 PM »
Maybe try tightening your trucks?  You hang your heels a lot and between that, the force your putting maybe pushes you in that direction. 

As much as jumping as high as you can.....ollieing is also as easy as just lifting your legs....you're trying really really hard and maybe that's what forces that torque.....can you do smaller in control ollies? 

You're getting good height....which is good though.

fs1/2cab

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2021, 10:24:13 AM »
Hey op, please don't feel discouraged. I was always the worst kid in my crew and nowadays I am the only one who still skates. But you know what's even better as ollies, kickflips and boardslides?

Just get on your board, push as fast as you can and forget all that other bullshit out there.

No need to rush your ollie skills, honestly. It is the most fundamental trick and I personally needed ~5 years to learn fast and good ollies. Nothing beats a stable foundation.
Pushing with both feet, carving frontside and backside in every stance, slappys, bonelesses, whatever. There is so much more to learn than "just" the ollie. I feel you on transition, never really been my thing. All you need is a empty parking lot. Flatground wheelies and nosewheelies are also fun and difficult enough.

Keep your head up, you are still young.
IG: @flowterspace

ArgonautJon

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2021, 12:50:12 PM »

Hey dude, in the  2nd clip where you're holding onto the chainlink fence the first thing I noticed is that you're pelvis is rotating so that the front hip is going toward your back before the tail has even left the ground. Your shoulders are staying parallel but that front hip is what's turning your board back. Watch the clip and you'll see it

Frankly, you're skating just like any kid who is fresh to skating is gonna skate, you're just 31 and don't have the stamina of a 13 year old. Seems like you've got perseverance though, so get some. Hanging onto a fence is probably a bad idea, but I mighta tried something like that when I was learning too. I don't remember. just keep ollieing. once you loosen up you'll start floating straight.
Yeah I was just doing it to try to prove that it wasn't the shoulder turning problem. Shoulders can't turn if your arms are bolted on to something. I don't need the fence. I've been doing them rolling for 6 or 7 months or so.

Maybe try tightening your trucks?  You hang your heels a lot and between that, the force your putting maybe pushes you in that direction. 

As much as jumping as high as you can.....ollieing is also as easy as just lifting your legs....you're trying really really hard and maybe that's what forces that torque.....can you do smaller in control ollies? 

You're getting good height....which is good though.

The trucks are about medium tightness. I've toyed with it before though and it doesn't make much of a difference. I think my problem is on the way 'down' if that makes sense. My guess is that it's not a problem with the takeoff. Could be wrong, I'll play with it.

As for smaller ollies, no, I'm unable to keep those straight either. As far as I'm aware I've never been able to land one straight, low or otherwise.

Hey op, please don't feel discouraged. I was always the worst kid in my crew and nowadays I am the only one who still skates. But you know what's even better as ollies, kickflips and boardslides?

Just get on your board, push as fast as you can and forget all that other bullshit out there.

No need to rush your ollie skills, honestly. It is the most fundamental trick and I personally needed ~5 years to learn fast and good ollies. Nothing beats a stable foundation.
Pushing with both feet, carving frontside and backside in every stance, slappys, bonelesses, whatever. There is so much more to learn than "just" the ollie. I feel you on transition, never really been my thing. All you need is a empty parking lot. Flatground wheelies and nosewheelies are also fun and difficult enough.

Keep your head up, you are still young.

Yeah thanks, I appreciate it. It's really hard not to get down because nearly everyone I know that skates was already had ollies long before this point, so I just have a hard time believing that there's not some way to improve them and dig myself out of this hole. Trying to keep my head up though. I've joked that this I've never spent more blood sweat and tears on anything else in my life, and it's honestly not even an exaggeration. One day it'll click, but I've just gotta keep beating my head on it for now.

I'll keep at it.


Anyway here's some more recent clips in case they're needed...

https://streamable.com/bxtqf6
https://streamable.com/ottdix
https://streamable.com/y8skhk
https://streamable.com/rdrjde
https://streamable.com/laa51w



IUTSM

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2021, 01:42:48 PM »
Expand Quote

Hey dude, in the  2nd clip where you're holding onto the chainlink fence the first thing I noticed is that you're pelvis is rotating so that the front hip is going toward your back before the tail has even left the ground. Your shoulders are staying parallel but that front hip is what's turning your board back. Watch the clip and you'll see it

Frankly, you're skating just like any kid who is fresh to skating is gonna skate, you're just 31 and don't have the stamina of a 13 year old. Seems like you've got perseverance though, so get some. Hanging onto a fence is probably a bad idea, but I mighta tried something like that when I was learning too. I don't remember. just keep ollieing. once you loosen up you'll start floating straight.
[close]
Yeah I was just doing it to try to prove that it wasn't the shoulder turning problem. Shoulders can't turn if your arms are bolted on to something. I don't need the fence. I've been doing them rolling for 6 or 7 months or so.


Anyway here's some more recent clips in case they're needed...

https://streamable.com/bxtqf6
https://streamable.com/ottdix
https://streamable.com/y8skhk
https://streamable.com/rdrjde
https://streamable.com/laa51w

for sure, I was trying to point out that yes, the shoulder turning isn't a problem.

it still looks like you're micro rotating the front hip as you're coming off the ground off the ground. the shoulders aren't what's turning you back, it's pelvic movement. if you watch your first clip from what I quoted above, in slow mo, I did it by pausing a bunch, you'll see it. it's subtle but that's where the turn originates.

what's your weight distribution like while standing still? is one side dominant? it is in most people. Oftentimes there's an almost imperceptible pull on the low back/hip/pelvic complex via the psoas, which is a really, really deep core muscle that controls hip flexion (walking, standing, leaning, etc), connecting around Thoracic 5 vertebrae, wrapping over the hip, and connecting at the lower end of the pelvis, in the region of the upper femur. It is extremely common for one side to be stretched longer than the other, which in turn pulls the opposite hip/low back down and back. If this is at all relatable, it could be beneficial to look up the yoga pose suptapadangusthansasana. All it requires is laying on your back and a strap/belt to hold your foot. speaking as a restorative yoga instructor that works with folks rehabbing from injuries and as someone who has used restorative yoga to rehab the psoas and related ailments, if you stick with it, it's a game changer.

keep pushin homie
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 04:37:11 PM by IusedToSkateMore »
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gaoag

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2021, 12:53:19 AM »
i started at 21. took me 3 years to get a decent ollie down :((

like everyone has said, it's the fact that your hips are turning can you just stand off the board and just do the jump+pop+slide motion? close your eyes, imagine you're on the board, and do it? then what happens?

the slide fucks w/ people. im just standing up in my room right now, sliding my foot up and pausing to look at my hip orientation, and i look like a dog about to pee on something - the hips naturally kind of open up when i slide in some ways versus in others. see if you can get a little slide/raise (As people have mentioned) of your front foot, but _without_ opening your hips at all (i'd be curious to see vid clips just of this happening).



lazer69

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2021, 08:58:50 PM »
You have a lot of advice here on this thread. I dont have much to add, except for dont try so hard. Looks real forceful. Once you get the pop just relax.

I also recommend just riding around, cruise, turn, flow, ride fast. Then come back to the ollie.

ArgonautJon

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Re: Strange ollie frontside turn issue - any assistance?
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2021, 05:15:01 AM »
Sorry I've been meaning to update this thread forever. I think I finally got it more or less sorted out towards the middle of February. After a bunch of experimenting, I found that the key was to actively try to do a backside 180. Like, wind up in advance and everything. What ends up coming out is an ollie that doesn't turn. Oddly it does move "in front of me" as in in the direction of my toes, but the board stays straight.

Shortly after figuring that out, I managed to keep an ollie straight over my curb height box:

https://streamable.com/thwagh

Spent a few weeks baking it into muscle memory so that I didn't have to think so much about it as I was doing it. Shortly after that I finally ollied onto my first curb.

https://streamable.com/ajak3f
https://streamable.com/stwscd

I still get a lot of frontside turn going up and over obstacles as you can see especially in that first one. I can fight it but it still takes a lot of conscious effort.

I'm going to keep at it but this was really the benchmark I was shooting for -- the minimum that I'd consider an acceptable, usable ollie. Thanks everyone for the assistance. I hope if there's anyone else out there googling for ideas they might find this helpful. Again to reiterate - my fix was to actively try to do a backside 180, complete with wind up before.