Author Topic: is nike cutting skate program soon?  (Read 62738 times)

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Mcidraque

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #210 on: May 04, 2021, 10:18:19 AM »
Do you want your money going to this guy



or this guy?



I couldn't care less that Mike Carroll is not down at the orphanage feeding hungry infants. He's a skateboarder and the other guy is some fucking rich yuppie who can't ollie.

thread finished. nuff said

Mcidraque

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #211 on: May 04, 2021, 10:21:16 AM »

It's not insane because skateboarders should be in charge of their own industry. If given the choice, I will always buy from people who are actually from the scene, and that's not just skateboarding.

also this

ChuckRamone

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #212 on: May 04, 2021, 10:21:44 AM »
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Do you want your money going to this guy



or this guy?



I couldn't care less that Mike Carroll is not down at the orphanage feeding hungry infants. He's a skateboarder and the other guy is some fucking rich yuppie who can't ollie.
[close]

Insane that anyone would care which rich guy got the profit from the purchase of a pair of shoes made by a contractor in a third world factory.
[close]

It's not insane because skateboarders should be in charge of their own industry.
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Why? Does this extend to the countless other companies in the industry owned by non-skaters? Everything from NHS and High-Speed Productions comes to mind.

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If given the choice, I will always buy from people who are actually from the scene, and that's not just skateboarding.
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So you don’t care who exploits third world labor, so long as the person doing it cares about “the scene”?

Yes. I try to buy from skater-owned companies as much as possible, like State, Deluxe, etc. I'm still on Indys because of old habit but I'm thinking of trying out the new Aces.

I think bringing up overseas factories just confuses the issue since all shoes are made that way right now. So I don't even consider that aspect. Then the deciding factor for me becomes supporting skaters over outsiders.

exlurker

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #213 on: May 04, 2021, 11:18:07 AM »
So we might as well bow down before the largest multi-national corporation in the game, which is now on its 3rd attempt to infiltrate the culture, after two catastrophic previous attempts which they dropped immediately. This 3rd one has been pretty fucking lame too, if you ask me, but there's no accounting for taste i guess. Obviously Adidas/NB/etc are also guility of culture vulture-ish venturism, but no company has been as obvious and hamfisted at it as Nike. Any of these will absolutely pull out of skating the moment the balance sheet tips, but we especially know that with nike - they've done it twice before.

There's not a pro-Nike argument in here that isn't 100% whataboutism, but behind the scenes i'm betting it's just lingering sneakerhead fetishism. I'd respect it more if you actually owned it and made that your main argument. Otherwise everything Nike has "done " for skateboarding has been lame or forgettable




Lowcalcium

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #214 on: May 04, 2021, 11:22:30 AM »
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Do you want your money going to this guy



or this guy?



I couldn't care less that Mike Carroll is not down at the orphanage feeding hungry infants. He's a skateboarder and the other guy is some fucking rich yuppie who can't ollie.
[close]

thread finished. nuff said

Mike Carroll's history in skateboarding: (born August 24, 1975) is a professional skateboarder from Daly City, California, United States. He is the co-founder and vice-president of Girl Skateboards and the co-founder of Lakai Limited Footwear.[2] He was also instrumental in the creation of the Chocolate Skateboards subdivision of Girl. Furthermore, Carroll is known for being in the vanguard of innovative, technical, and stylish street skateboarding in the early 1990s and beyond. The success of skateboarding videos like Hokus Pokus, Ban This! and Video Days firmly ensconced street as the premier variation of skating (a position formally held by freestyle and especially vert skateboarding).[3]

Nike CEO, John Donahoe's history in skateboarding:  (born April 30, 1960)[1] is an American businessman who is the CEO of Nike. Early in his career he worked for Bain & Company, becoming the firm's president and CEO in 1999.[2] He is on the board of directors at Nike,[3] The Bridgespan Group [4] and is chairman of PayPal. Donahoe was named president and CEO of ServiceNow, a cloud company, in February 2017.[5][6] He served on the Board of Trustees of Dartmouth College from 2003 to 2012.[7] On January 13, 2020, Donahoe became president and CEO of Nike.

You decide, who probably deserves to sell skate shoes

augustmoon

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #215 on: May 04, 2021, 11:24:11 AM »
.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.

this is fucking hilarious.  thanks for giving me a nice little chuckle to start my day
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Fuck brandon biebel... The lemon thrower

Mr. Stinky

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #216 on: May 04, 2021, 11:31:50 AM »
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.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
[close]

this is fucking hilarious.  thanks for giving me a nice little chuckle to start my day

Not sure why it's "fucking hilarious" to point out that industry leaders call the shots for how their entire industry is run.  Also not sure what's funny about the rest of it, but hey, glad you're easily amused by your ability to experience cheap contempt.

essal

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #217 on: May 04, 2021, 11:38:08 AM »
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Maybe they use bad labor practices, but the reality is that buying skater owned (while you still can) means your money does not go to a globe-spanning behemoth that causes unfathomable environmental harm and human suffering in literally dozens of nations because it's so much cheaper to make every possible kind of shoe and garment when they ravage the land and work their child slaves to death. 

Core companies are literally incapable of that degree of harm just by virtue of being that much smaller and more focused on the skate market, as opposed to trying to take over every aspect of the global shoe and athletic equipment marketplace they possibly can.  Perhaps buying core is harm reduction?  I mostly skate Adidas these days so I'm not perfect on this count by any stretch, but it's food for thought.
[close]

Good point, but just to be clear here: In the early 1990s, a former Airwalk employee set up a process with shoe factories in Korea and later other countries in the region and helped 'core' shoe companies manufacture shoes over there. With huge profit margins.

Do you think these factories were practicing sound environmental or labor practices?

Did the 'core' shoe companies care?

Have you smelled a warehouse full of 'core' shoes in the 1990s? It was like walking into a glue factory.

Looking back, a lot of 'core' shoes since the 1990s have been interchangeable product made for cheap with a logo slapped on for legitimacy. Everyone needs to judge for themselves what constitutes a well-made shoe.
[close]

I concede all that, I don't think there's anything better about the actual manner in which core companies manufacture their goods.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
you're not paying attention to the textiles industry at all are you? nike has open factory lists, you can trace their entire process start to finish and i'm sure they have csr audits that are public. large factories, like the ones nike use, are very often the best factories simply because of their client list demands it. Lakai could demand way stricter policies and have them complied with- but you're the one who would be paying for it; and lets face it, we aren't willing to pay more money for Lakais and not even fucking lena dunham is going to help pull any significant amount of socially conscience customers...

augustmoon

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #218 on: May 04, 2021, 11:41:15 AM »
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.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
[close]

this is fucking hilarious.  thanks for giving me a nice little chuckle to start my day
[close]

Not sure why it's "fucking hilarious" to point out that industry leaders call the shots for how their entire industry is run.  Also not sure what's funny about the rest of it, but hey, glad you're easily amused by your ability to experience cheap contempt.


Lakai's labor practices if Nike never made skate shoes:



sure thing buddy ;D
Quote
Fuck brandon biebel... The lemon thrower

Mr. Stinky

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #219 on: May 04, 2021, 12:01:48 PM »
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.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
[close]

this is fucking hilarious.  thanks for giving me a nice little chuckle to start my day
[close]

Not sure why it's "fucking hilarious" to point out that industry leaders call the shots for how their entire industry is run.  Also not sure what's funny about the rest of it, but hey, glad you're easily amused by your ability to experience cheap contempt.
[close]


Lakai's labor practices if Nike never made skate shoes:



sure thing buddy ;D

It's cool how you just admit you can't really understand the things you read. Pretty brave to own it like that, actually.

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Maybe they use bad labor practices, but the reality is that buying skater owned (while you still can) means your money does not go to a globe-spanning behemoth that causes unfathomable environmental harm and human suffering in literally dozens of nations because it's so much cheaper to make every possible kind of shoe and garment when they ravage the land and work their child slaves to death. 

Core companies are literally incapable of that degree of harm just by virtue of being that much smaller and more focused on the skate market, as opposed to trying to take over every aspect of the global shoe and athletic equipment marketplace they possibly can.  Perhaps buying core is harm reduction?  I mostly skate Adidas these days so I'm not perfect on this count by any stretch, but it's food for thought.
[close]

Good point, but just to be clear here: In the early 1990s, a former Airwalk employee set up a process with shoe factories in Korea and later other countries in the region and helped 'core' shoe companies manufacture shoes over there. With huge profit margins.

Do you think these factories were practicing sound environmental or labor practices?

Did the 'core' shoe companies care?

Have you smelled a warehouse full of 'core' shoes in the 1990s? It was like walking into a glue factory.

Looking back, a lot of 'core' shoes since the 1990s have been interchangeable product made for cheap with a logo slapped on for legitimacy. Everyone needs to judge for themselves what constitutes a well-made shoe.
[close]

I concede all that, I don't think there's anything better about the actual manner in which core companies manufacture their goods.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
[close]
you're not paying attention to the textiles industry at all are you? nike has open factory lists, you can trace their entire process start to finish and i'm sure they have csr audits that are public. large factories, like the ones nike use, are very often the best factories simply because of their client list demands it. Lakai could demand way stricter policies and have them complied with- but you're the one who would be paying for it; and lets face it, we aren't willing to pay more money for Lakais and not even fucking lena dunham is going to help pull any significant amount of socially conscience customers...

Lol, you got me, I have a demanding career, a family, a household to keep running, other hobbies, etc., so my I haven't followed the textiles industry in as much granular detail as I have in the past. 

Besides, I can admit literally all of that and it doesn't really reach my point.  My point is that while those factories might be "the best" (however you're defining that), those operations are still large-scale labor abuse and environmental ruin machines.  (So, not "the best" how I'm defining it.) If Nike were held to higher standards, then the whole industry would likely at least start to move in the same direction. Here's the real important thing, though, which I didn't make as clear as I should have: this is extremely improbable because Nike sets its own standards, which it does not based upon how good something is for the environment or its workers, but upon what will maximize profits. 

The whole problem is that Nike is simply too powerful and too entrenched in the global economy to change without wanting to first.  And changes in consumer's buying habits will likely never amount to as much as it would take to get Nike to want to change, even if a cultural force as universally admired and respected as Lena Dunham (not Lena Dunham!) threw her support behind it.

RichardBarkley

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #220 on: May 04, 2021, 12:06:32 PM »
Hilarious when people use the words Nike and culture in the same sentence.
I want to fight you so badly richard
Please give me your address ill make it my life goal to punsh your face in

shannamal

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #221 on: May 04, 2021, 12:32:56 PM »
buncha behind the scenes dudes at nike just got cut. there could be truth to this rumor this time


i don’t think any of you are real, i think slap was invented by my mom to make me think people want to talk to me

fs180

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #222 on: May 04, 2021, 12:44:17 PM »
Hilarious when people use the words Nike and culture in the same sentence.


its fucking hilarious how you don't understand modern day culture because you live under a tiny skate rock like a fucking ant.

https://youtu.be/diIFhc_Kzng

do you know this fucking song? this is culture you idiot. not saying you have to love anything about it but nike is a HUGE part of modern day culture.

fs180

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #223 on: May 04, 2021, 12:49:39 PM »
you are really saying if it wasn't for nike standards lakai would make better shoes? lmao its the complete opposite.
if it wasn't for the very good functioning nike shoes lakai would still have some relevance but they don't because their shoes are worse.

cariuma looks like vans old skool and last resort like converse one stars cc.
there is no creativity in those designs. making money of big corporations designs. fucking lame.

RichardBarkley

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #224 on: May 04, 2021, 12:52:12 PM »
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Hilarious when people use the words Nike and culture in the same sentence.
[close]


its fucking hilarious how you don't understand modern day culture because you live under a tiny skate rock like a fucking ant.

https://youtu.be/diIFhc_Kzng

do you know this fucking song? this is culture you idiot. not saying you have to love anything about it but nike is a HUGE part of modern day culture.

Lol

You'll say anything for nike won't you
I want to fight you so badly richard
Please give me your address ill make it my life goal to punsh your face in

manysnakes

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #225 on: May 04, 2021, 12:59:31 PM »
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.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
[close]

this is fucking hilarious.  thanks for giving me a nice little chuckle to start my day
[close]

Not sure why it's "fucking hilarious" to point out that industry leaders call the shots for how their entire industry is run.  Also not sure what's funny about the rest of it, but hey, glad you're easily amused by your ability to experience cheap contempt.
[close]


Lakai's labor practices if Nike never made skate shoes:



sure thing buddy ;D

This is essentially what’s being argued here, along with the idea that Mike Carroll, by virtue of being a skateboarder, is deserving of the profits from the labor of third world contractors.

And notice we can really only talk about Lakai, because they are ostensibly the only skater-owned shoe company - to such an extent that posters here are apologizing for riding Indy trucks, because otherwise the argument falls apart.
This is not my SOTY. I'm telling my kids there was no SOTY for 2021

Coldpizza

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #226 on: May 04, 2021, 01:04:16 PM »
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Hilarious when people use the words Nike and culture in the same sentence.
[close]

its fucking hilarious how you don't understand modern day culture because you live under a tiny skate rock like a fucking ant.

https://youtu.be/diIFhc_Kzng

do you know this fucking song? this is culture you idiot. not saying you have to love anything about it but nike is a HUGE part of modern day culture.
And here you are redirecting again. No one is arguing the broad cultural impact of Nike as a whole you dolt.
Please, aside from making shoes that people like to skate, fill me in on what Nike has done for the culture of skateboarding?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jean-Ralphio Zaperstein

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #227 on: May 04, 2021, 01:12:00 PM »
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.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
[close]

this is fucking hilarious.  thanks for giving me a nice little chuckle to start my day
[close]

Not sure why it's "fucking hilarious" to point out that industry leaders call the shots for how their entire industry is run.  Also not sure what's funny about the rest of it, but hey, glad you're easily amused by your ability to experience cheap contempt.
[close]


Lakai's labor practices if Nike never made skate shoes:



sure thing buddy ;D
[close]

This is essentially what’s being argued here, along with the idea that Mike Carroll, by virtue of being a skateboarder, is deserving of the profits from the labor of third world contractors.

And notice we can really only talk about Lakai, because they are ostensibly the only skater-owned shoe company - to such an extent that posters here are apologizing for riding Indy trucks, because otherwise the argument falls apart.

You have good points but you're getting salty man
We're talking about carroll and lakai because that's the example fs180 used

Mr. Stinky

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #228 on: May 04, 2021, 01:15:36 PM »
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.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
[close]

this is fucking hilarious.  thanks for giving me a nice little chuckle to start my day
[close]

Not sure why it's "fucking hilarious" to point out that industry leaders call the shots for how their entire industry is run.  Also not sure what's funny about the rest of it, but hey, glad you're easily amused by your ability to experience cheap contempt.
[close]


Lakai's labor practices if Nike never made skate shoes:



sure thing buddy ;D
[close]

This is essentially what’s being argued here, along with the idea that Mike Carroll, by virtue of being a skateboarder, is deserving of the profits from the labor of third world contractors.

And notice we can really only talk about Lakai, because they are ostensibly the only skater-owned shoe company - to such an extent that posters here are apologizing for riding Indy trucks, because otherwise the argument falls apart.

No one is mad that you skate Nikes.  Basically nothing is manufactured ethically but that doesn't mean Nike isn't running a clinic on how to be an evil corporation.  If Nike used less harmful practices, regulatory policy would likely follow the gajillion dollar company's lead (like it observably does in every fucking industry) and other commercial actors would then have reason to follow their lead.  But they won't until there are commercial reasons that push them in that direction. 

Like I said, keep skating whatever shoes you want, it's up to you to decide what monsters of the global economy you shell out to.

manysnakes

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #229 on: May 04, 2021, 01:18:17 PM »
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.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
[close]

this is fucking hilarious.  thanks for giving me a nice little chuckle to start my day
[close]

Not sure why it's "fucking hilarious" to point out that industry leaders call the shots for how their entire industry is run.  Also not sure what's funny about the rest of it, but hey, glad you're easily amused by your ability to experience cheap contempt.
[close]


Lakai's labor practices if Nike never made skate shoes:



sure thing buddy ;D
[close]

This is essentially what’s being argued here, along with the idea that Mike Carroll, by virtue of being a skateboarder, is deserving of the profits from the labor of third world contractors.

And notice we can really only talk about Lakai, because they are ostensibly the only skater-owned shoe company - to such an extent that posters here are apologizing for riding Indy trucks, because otherwise the argument falls apart.
[close]

You have good points but you're getting salty man
We're talking about carroll and lakai because that's the example fs180 used

I don’t think I’m being salty, I’m just pointing out that, wrt shoes, if your argument against Nike is that shoes companies ought to be skater-owned, then as far as I know, the only widely available shoe in this category is Lakai. This demonstrates the flimsiness of the argument, since so many of the brands with which skaters identify are essentially faceless corporate conglomerates of one kind or another.
This is not my SOTY. I'm telling my kids there was no SOTY for 2021

fs180

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #230 on: May 04, 2021, 01:19:17 PM »
"funny how somebody uses nike and culture in one sentence" implies that nike isn't culture. it is.

as I said, they build skateparks like the one in berlin, they sponsor way to many people without having the need of doing it.
surely they want more market share and more money but who of these companies doesn't.
in my eyes you should either buy nikes/Adidas or some small business like last resort. everything in between has the biggest potential to be a shit shoe with shit labors under shitty circumstances.

i trust my feet a lot more nike who can survive a bad year without having drastic changes in quality.
the story about the fallen warehouse being flooded is just one of the examples how small these companies are even though they simlingly make big money and have a common name.

manysnakes

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #231 on: May 04, 2021, 01:25:47 PM »
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.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
[close]

this is fucking hilarious.  thanks for giving me a nice little chuckle to start my day
[close]

Not sure why it's "fucking hilarious" to point out that industry leaders call the shots for how their entire industry is run.  Also not sure what's funny about the rest of it, but hey, glad you're easily amused by your ability to experience cheap contempt.
[close]


Lakai's labor practices if Nike never made skate shoes:



sure thing buddy ;D
[close]

This is essentially what’s being argued here, along with the idea that Mike Carroll, by virtue of being a skateboarder, is deserving of the profits from the labor of third world contractors.

And notice we can really only talk about Lakai, because they are ostensibly the only skater-owned shoe company - to such an extent that posters here are apologizing for riding Indy trucks, because otherwise the argument falls apart.
[close]

No one is mad that you skate Nikes.  Basically nothing is manufactured ethically but that doesn't mean Nike isn't running a clinic on how to be an evil corporation.  If Nike used less harmful practices, regulatory policy would likely follow the gajillion dollar company's lead (like it observably does in every fucking industry) and other commercial actors would then have reason to follow their lead.  But they won't until there are commercial reasons that push them in that direction. 

Like I said, keep skating whatever shoes you want, it's up to you to decide what monsters of the global economy you shell out to.

I don’t skate Nikes. Please don’t confuse my argument for an advocacy for a particular brand. I’m just trying to emphasize here the extent to which what we identify as “skate culture” has always been sold to us by non-skaters, and the futility of individual, uncoordinated buying decisions to effect change.
This is not my SOTY. I'm telling my kids there was no SOTY for 2021

essal

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #232 on: May 04, 2021, 01:59:37 PM »
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.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
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this is fucking hilarious.  thanks for giving me a nice little chuckle to start my day
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Not sure why it's "fucking hilarious" to point out that industry leaders call the shots for how their entire industry is run.  Also not sure what's funny about the rest of it, but hey, glad you're easily amused by your ability to experience cheap contempt.
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Lakai's labor practices if Nike never made skate shoes:



sure thing buddy ;D
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It's cool how you just admit you can't really understand the things you read. Pretty brave to own it like that, actually.

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Maybe they use bad labor practices, but the reality is that buying skater owned (while you still can) means your money does not go to a globe-spanning behemoth that causes unfathomable environmental harm and human suffering in literally dozens of nations because it's so much cheaper to make every possible kind of shoe and garment when they ravage the land and work their child slaves to death. 

Core companies are literally incapable of that degree of harm just by virtue of being that much smaller and more focused on the skate market, as opposed to trying to take over every aspect of the global shoe and athletic equipment marketplace they possibly can.  Perhaps buying core is harm reduction?  I mostly skate Adidas these days so I'm not perfect on this count by any stretch, but it's food for thought.
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Good point, but just to be clear here: In the early 1990s, a former Airwalk employee set up a process with shoe factories in Korea and later other countries in the region and helped 'core' shoe companies manufacture shoes over there. With huge profit margins.

Do you think these factories were practicing sound environmental or labor practices?

Did the 'core' shoe companies care?

Have you smelled a warehouse full of 'core' shoes in the 1990s? It was like walking into a glue factory.

Looking back, a lot of 'core' shoes since the 1990s have been interchangeable product made for cheap with a logo slapped on for legitimacy. Everyone needs to judge for themselves what constitutes a well-made shoe.
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I concede all that, I don't think there's anything better about the actual manner in which core companies manufacture their goods.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
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you're not paying attention to the textiles industry at all are you? nike has open factory lists, you can trace their entire process start to finish and i'm sure they have csr audits that are public. large factories, like the ones nike use, are very often the best factories simply because of their client list demands it. Lakai could demand way stricter policies and have them complied with- but you're the one who would be paying for it; and lets face it, we aren't willing to pay more money for Lakais and not even fucking lena dunham is going to help pull any significant amount of socially conscience customers...
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Lol, you got me, I have a demanding career, a family, a household to keep running, other hobbies, etc., so my I haven't followed the textiles industry in as much granular detail as I have in the past. 

Besides, I can admit literally all of that and it doesn't really reach my point.  My point is that while those factories might be "the best" (however you're defining that), those operations are still large-scale labor abuse and environmental ruin machines.  (So, not "the best" how I'm defining it.) If Nike were held to higher standards, then the whole industry would likely at least start to move in the same direction. Here's the real important thing, though, which I didn't make as clear as I should have: this is extremely improbable because Nike sets its own standards, which it does not based upon how good something is for the environment or its workers, but upon what will maximize profits. 

The whole problem is that Nike is simply too powerful and too entrenched in the global economy to change without wanting to first.  And changes in consumer's buying habits will likely never amount to as much as it would take to get Nike to want to change, even if a cultural force as universally admired and respected as Lena Dunham (not Lena Dunham!) threw her support behind it.
I've worked in the textile industry for the last 10+ years.

Nike is a longtime member of SAC, which runs the HIGG indexes. That means, very simplified, that Nike is one of the brands that hold themselves to the highest standards in the textiles mass manufacturing world when it comes to sustainability and ethical treatment of workers. So your statement is incorrect, because HIGGs is what the industry uses to define CSR metrics and it's independent from any of the brands.

no company whos main business is selling or even making product has "how good it is for the environment" as their key metric. You can however read several of Nikes public investor reports on sustainability here: https://purpose.nike.com/reports
(it's actually an interesting read if you give a rats ass about sustainability in the textiles industry)

consumer behavior is why you have SAC and HIGGs index. It's why Nike publishes their reports and keeps their factory list public. That's holding them to a higher standard that no core skateshoe brand (that I'm aware of) is being held to. If you don't think it's high enough, that's on you- and if so I hope your normal jeans cost $200 rather than $20.

Utopos

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #233 on: May 04, 2021, 02:11:18 PM »
Find me a skater owned shoe company that can actually make a decent shoe and I will 100% support them. I have run through 90% of the "core" brands and nothing works as well as Nike. I had foot pain for years skating Lakai, I even threw in those gamechanger insoles. About a month into my first pair of blazer mids and the pain was drastically less.

Mr. Stinky

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #234 on: May 04, 2021, 02:20:21 PM »
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.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
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this is fucking hilarious.  thanks for giving me a nice little chuckle to start my day
[close]

Not sure why it's "fucking hilarious" to point out that industry leaders call the shots for how their entire industry is run.  Also not sure what's funny about the rest of it, but hey, glad you're easily amused by your ability to experience cheap contempt.
[close]


Lakai's labor practices if Nike never made skate shoes:



sure thing buddy ;D
[close]

It's cool how you just admit you can't really understand the things you read. Pretty brave to own it like that, actually.

Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
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Maybe they use bad labor practices, but the reality is that buying skater owned (while you still can) means your money does not go to a globe-spanning behemoth that causes unfathomable environmental harm and human suffering in literally dozens of nations because it's so much cheaper to make every possible kind of shoe and garment when they ravage the land and work their child slaves to death. 

Core companies are literally incapable of that degree of harm just by virtue of being that much smaller and more focused on the skate market, as opposed to trying to take over every aspect of the global shoe and athletic equipment marketplace they possibly can.  Perhaps buying core is harm reduction?  I mostly skate Adidas these days so I'm not perfect on this count by any stretch, but it's food for thought.
[close]

Good point, but just to be clear here: In the early 1990s, a former Airwalk employee set up a process with shoe factories in Korea and later other countries in the region and helped 'core' shoe companies manufacture shoes over there. With huge profit margins.

Do you think these factories were practicing sound environmental or labor practices?

Did the 'core' shoe companies care?

Have you smelled a warehouse full of 'core' shoes in the 1990s? It was like walking into a glue factory.

Looking back, a lot of 'core' shoes since the 1990s have been interchangeable product made for cheap with a logo slapped on for legitimacy. Everyone needs to judge for themselves what constitutes a well-made shoe.
[close]

I concede all that, I don't think there's anything better about the actual manner in which core companies manufacture their goods.  However, If Nike were held accountable (not by skaters, but people with power or an overwhelming number of ordinary people) and forced to change its practices, you'd better believe Lakai would have to as well.  Put differently: the whole reason why e.g. Lakai has such low standards for its labor and environmental practices is because an actor like Nike has succeeded at setting the bar so low for itself.
[close]
you're not paying attention to the textiles industry at all are you? nike has open factory lists, you can trace their entire process start to finish and i'm sure they have csr audits that are public. large factories, like the ones nike use, are very often the best factories simply because of their client list demands it. Lakai could demand way stricter policies and have them complied with- but you're the one who would be paying for it; and lets face it, we aren't willing to pay more money for Lakais and not even fucking lena dunham is going to help pull any significant amount of socially conscience customers...
[close]

Lol, you got me, I have a demanding career, a family, a household to keep running, other hobbies, etc., so my I haven't followed the textiles industry in as much granular detail as I have in the past. 

Besides, I can admit literally all of that and it doesn't really reach my point.  My point is that while those factories might be "the best" (however you're defining that), those operations are still large-scale labor abuse and environmental ruin machines.  (So, not "the best" how I'm defining it.) If Nike were held to higher standards, then the whole industry would likely at least start to move in the same direction. Here's the real important thing, though, which I didn't make as clear as I should have: this is extremely improbable because Nike sets its own standards, which it does not based upon how good something is for the environment or its workers, but upon what will maximize profits. 

The whole problem is that Nike is simply too powerful and too entrenched in the global economy to change without wanting to first.  And changes in consumer's buying habits will likely never amount to as much as it would take to get Nike to want to change, even if a cultural force as universally admired and respected as Lena Dunham (not Lena Dunham!) threw her support behind it.
[close]
I've worked in the textile industry for the last 10+ years.

Nike is a longtime member of SAC, which runs the HIGG indexes. That means, very simplified, that Nike is one of the brands that hold themselves to the highest standards in the textiles mass manufacturing world when it comes to sustainability and ethical treatment of workers. So your statement is incorrect, because HIGGs is what the industry uses to define CSR metrics and it's independent from any of the brands.

no company whos main business is selling or even making product has "how good it is for the environment" as their key metric. You can however read several of Nikes public investor reports on sustainability here: https://purpose.nike.com/reports
(it's actually an interesting read if you give a rats ass about sustainability in the textiles industry)

consumer behavior is why you have SAC and HIGGs index. It's why Nike publishes their reports and keeps their factory list public. That's holding them to a higher standard that no core skateshoe brand (that I'm aware of) is being held to. If you don't think it's high enough, that's on you- and if so I hope your normal jeans cost $200 rather than $20.

Save it, dude.  If you think you can get Nikes for what they cost while Nike does good things for the environment and its workers, I don't know what to tell you. They just recently got fingered for using fucking genocide camp slave labor. Ever heard of the Uighurs?  Nike and some other extremely woke corporations lobbied against a bill that would have prohibited imported products made with forced labor, which isn't reflected in the SAC or HIGGs index or whatever you're talking about.  And if you want to trust what a trade association says about how environmentally sustainable the manufacturing processes of the largest actor in a given industry are, shalom brother, you can trust all you want that Nike will abide by unenforceable nonregulations it likely had a hand in writing to cover its own ass.

Lowcalcium

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #235 on: May 04, 2021, 02:21:18 PM »
Find me a skater owned shoe company that can actually make a decent shoe and I will 100% support them. I have run through 90% of the "core" brands and nothing works as well as Nike. I had foot pain for years skating Lakai, I even threw in those gamechanger insoles. About a month into my first pair of blazer mids and the pain was drastically less.

Vans are definitely not skater owned by any means, they are owned by the VF Corporation. but are you seriously telling me that Vans hurt your feet when you skate in them.

If that's case man, you might need to see a Podiatrist or simply stop being a baby. I have extremely flat feet and have sharp pain when I walk...but Vans Ultracush treats me just fine.

Tuff Lover

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #236 on: May 04, 2021, 02:42:19 PM »
When I see someone wearing "core brands," outside of a skate environment I assume that they skate but 90% of the time it turns out that they just wanted a wider shoe...

I don't even count Vans as "core," anymore. Everyone and their mother wears those flimsy things. I mean how good is a shoe if one has to buy insoles to make the shoe comfortable. They're just like Airwalks but with a older legacy and a higher price

I liked the Reebok DGK stuff




Utopos

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #237 on: May 04, 2021, 02:51:21 PM »
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Find me a skater owned shoe company that can actually make a decent shoe and I will 100% support them. I have run through 90% of the "core" brands and nothing works as well as Nike. I had foot pain for years skating Lakai, I even threw in those gamechanger insoles. About a month into my first pair of blazer mids and the pain was drastically less.
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Vans are definitely not skater owned by any means, they are owned by the VF Corporation. but are you seriously telling me that Vans hurt your feet when you skate in them.

If that's case man, you might need to see a Podiatrist or simply stop being a baby. I have extremely flat feet and have sharp pain when I walk...but Vans Ultracush treats me just fine.

Vans are definitely comfortable but I have had issues with them wearing out too fast. They either bag out or I just wear through the sole. 

Donkey Lips

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #238 on: May 04, 2021, 03:22:25 PM »
I liked the Reebok DGK stuff

A true man of class.

Tuff Lover

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Re: is nike cutting skate program soon?
« Reply #239 on: May 04, 2021, 03:55:09 PM »
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I liked the Reebok DGK stuff
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A true man of class.

Lol. They always came with 2 pair of laces (different colors that matched the shoe and outfit) with metal tips. They were wide shoes with a thick sole and had the feel of a proper shoe.