Author Topic: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.  (Read 4612 times)

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Ghost Face

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Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« on: May 05, 2021, 01:26:08 AM »
There's been loads of threads about skaters salaries over the years and even the post with DC's financials and payments to their Pro's which were astounding at the time.

Pinkbike just released the results of the survey they do on the top 40 riders in 4 MTB disciplines and the numbers are pretty interesting.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/how-much-do-professional-mountain-bikers-get-paid-pinkbikes-state-of-the-sport-survey.html

Almost 30% of riders polled made less than $5k a year.

It would be pretty interesting if Jenkem did something similar.
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cky enthusiast

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2021, 05:43:33 AM »
there’s a lot more $ in MTB.

Mike Oxwelling

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2021, 06:04:06 AM »
Who says "in Skate"?   Not skateboarders.

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2021, 07:23:47 AM »
S H A L O M

manysnakes

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2021, 07:33:04 AM »
there’s a lot more $ in MTB.

Yes and no. A lot more mountain bikes than skateboards are sold by dollar, but competitive and high level mountain biking has negligible interest and public support as opposed to skating. Brands are not nearly as excited to shower a hot young downhill rider with cash and product as they are a young skater, because skateboarding as a sport has a much broader global reach and has produced some legitimate superstars in a way that mountain biking never has (Tinker Juarez isn’t a household name the way that Tony Hawk is).

So anyway, this is to say that there isn’t a strong A-to-B here between MTB and skate. They reflect very different demographics and the money comes from very different places. The one similarity is they’re mostly all broke.
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cky enthusiast

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2021, 08:19:22 AM »
that’s def true, but i think the amount of $ santa cruz syndicate has to fuck around with (just as an example) is gonna be more than idk birdhouse/girl/pick a company because the cost of entry is higher and the margins are better. i have no data to back this up besides skating a lot and working in the bike industry.

at least in xc there’s a few people who are a big part of the advertising/brand for the big producers (jolanda neff etc) that i’m sure are getting paid more than the bigger name pros are.

mushroom slice

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2021, 08:43:19 AM »

Hevonen

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2021, 09:01:44 AM »
Anyone have that DC document still or know where to find it? What I remember is that Cobra was making like 500k per year and fucking Mikey Taylor like 300k and that just seems kinda crazy.

Would be interesting if someone did a similar anonymous survey in skateboarding.

Drain Bamage

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2021, 09:06:27 AM »
Anyone got a link on the DC salaries story?

more$steez

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2021, 10:32:57 AM »
I think this MTB article is interesting, but pro MTBing isn’t a comparable world to skating.

Yes, some bike companies make a lot more than skate (board) companies. And some pro mountain bikers are going to make the same or more or less than pro skaters. But skate culture is a worldwide phenomenon. Mountain biking isn’t. It’s a very niche world. Bikes cost thousands and thousands of dollars. And although the industry is growing, there is not the same demand for the culture - vids, mags, clothing, shoes, etc - as there is for skate products around the world.

Mountain biking doesn’t have NIKE (cons), Adidas, Vans and New Balance all paying hundreds of bikers to bike every year. Of those companies, I believe New Balance has the smallest market cap, and it’s at least a few billion dollars. They also DON’T have a much smaller secondary shoe market - Lakai, Emerica, Fallen, DC (more of a mid player between Corpo and smaller) paying living wages to their skate teams. All these are companies just paying skaters to wear there skate specific footwear. And footwear is a huge and expensive market to create product for and distribute worldwide.

On top of that, brands like Palace, Supreme (now VF Corp) and to a lesser extent Dime and Alltimers etc, have transcended skateboarding and are more worldwide fashion brands that help drive trends and the global hype machine. They do this through skate culture, which gives them legitimacy. It’s because skateboarding is “cool” they have cache. That “cool” is derived from the skaters those brands and all skate brands are associated with.

VF Corp, which owns Vans, dickies, the north face, didn’t buy Supreme because they sell the most* clothing. They bought it for the brand and the ability to market and create trends that drive culture. And they paid billions for it. Nothing like that exists in Mountain Biking.

In fact, there’s nothing really from Mountain Biking that had infiltrated mainstream culture as a trend. Yes, certain mountain bikers have videos on YouTube with millions of views and Red Bull helmets on. But those videos aren’t driving fashion and consumer trends on the streets of global cities like Milan, Shanghai and New York....

As for skate salaries, I think it really depends on who the skater skates for.

The big shoe brands - Adidas, Nike (cons), Vans, and NB - all have deep rosters of pros and flow pros and ams. It depends on the tier the skater is at within those companies for their salaries. And those salaries probably range from the high six figures (300,000-500,000$ +) at the very top end, to 40-60,000$ per year (USD) depending on the pros status or marketability. Pick out a pro on their team. Ask yourself if they are more of a niche “skaters skater”, a guy who wins Xgames every year, or a skater regularly up for SOTY (hell, they could be all of those things). If they are one of those things or more, adjust their salary accordingly.

If you use the supreme kids for example, those guys are probably getting a salary from supreme, a salary from a corpo shoe brand, and a salary from a board brand. They are likely making a really solid above average living wage from their collective sponsors. None of them likely have an energy drink sponsor because they don’t need them. The board brands they’re associated with sell well. They all have shoe deals. And the Supreme factor makes them more appealing to their sponsors, buying extra “cool points” (I know it’s corny) which translates into extra dollars.

Board brands aren’t likely the main source of income for most* pros now. That said, board brands that sell lots of boards probably pay pros decently. And board brands that sell a lot of clothes, think Palace, probably pay quite well too.

Like all industries - picture a pyramid - the people at the top are likely making the most. Most pros are going to be somewhere in the middle or bottom third of the triangle.

That said, the economics of skating are super strange. There are pros that slap loves that are probably getting the odd check from an indie board and maybe “pro flow” payments from a corpo shoe brand. They might make 20-30K USD a year. And work a part-time job to support themselves. Shit, some guys making “pro” salaries might be in this range and work.

But brands pay for “cool” - it’s what gives them legitimacy. So a skater without even a pro board on the wall and a pro status from a corpo shoe brand might be making pro dollars from that corpo shoe brand as they build a following. Lots of “ams” are making more than pros, especially if they are sponsored by a corpo shoe brand, an energy drink and a clothing brand.

TLDR: the economics of pro skating are strange, but they aren’t likely the best comparison for mountain biking because the skate industry is too large and too diverse and too popular, resonating beyond just skateboarding and into global fashion/trends.

shannamal

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2021, 10:40:15 AM »
as someone in the bike industry:

"professional" in the bike industry, especially the mountain bike world, is different than other places. 'pro' is just a license designation; you can race pro races without having a single sponsor (if you were good enough/rich enough).

IMO the equivalent designation in skating for a whole lotta these dudes would be am. they get products, get to travel to compete/film, and receive a small salary.


Mountain biking doesn’t have NIKE (cons), Adidas, Vans and New Balance all paying hundreds of bikers to bike every year.


adidas is in cycling, they own five ten, and sponsor a lotta people, including some of the most popular, media wise. danny mcaskill, etc


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gumsole

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2021, 10:48:55 AM »
I know it isn't mtb but in bmx adidas (five ten) pays brad simms a solid amount for sure. Definitely higher than the median amount a male between 20-50 makes in Texas through any job.

more$steez

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2021, 10:54:42 AM »


adidas is in cycling, they own five ten, and sponsor a lotta people, including some of the most popular, media wise. danny mcaskill, etc
[/quote]

I didn’t know adidas owned Five Ten. But to me this is like saying NIKE is in surfing because they own Hurley.

Adidas and Nike are two of the largest global fashion brands in the world. Their combined market cap is north of 100 billion dollars. I don’t doubt that they have some inroads into plenty of industries through subsidy brands they’ve bought.

But that said, I don’t see adidas creating a line of mountain biking products themselves. Whereas they have a pretty sizable skate collection that includes pro shoes and clothing, all under the 3-stripe banner. I think that speaks to the popularity and legitimacy of skateboarding...

now there is a plenty and plenty of speculation as to whether these skate programs make the big corpo shoe brands any money or not, but I don’t think they’re going anywhere anytime soon. Yes, the skate programs are likely expensive. But they’re a fraction of a cost compared to other sport divisions like Basketball. And the cool that skating gives these huge brands is likely worth the cost on the balance sheet, which is why the skate programs continue to exist (and in many cases, grow).

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« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 11:35:56 AM by shannamal »


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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2021, 11:54:45 AM »
Anyone have that DC document still or know where to find it? What I remember is that Cobra was making like 500k per year and fucking Mikey Taylor like 300k and that just seems kinda crazy.

I was the one who originally posted it -- the numbers were buried deep in the Quiksilver bankruptcy filings. I remember looking at it again shortly thereafter and some of the info had already been redacted. Just did a cursory search for it right now and it seems like the whole thing has been scrubbed from the internet unless it's still available in some kind of subscription service legal documents database. Unfortunately, I did not save it or screenshot it and the thread only lasted here on Slap for a day at the most before the powers that be deleted it so the info might just be lost to time. Like you said, I also recall Mikey Taylor making an obnoxious amount of money that year(like $50k a month).

ManimalChin

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2021, 09:13:36 PM »
So anyway, this is to say that there isn’t a strong A-to-B here between MTB and skate. They reflect very different demographics and the money comes from very different places. The one similarity is they’re mostly all broke.

A mountain bike pro could be anyone who enters races in the pro/elite categories and earns money. A pro skateboarder is generally considered someone who is sponsored by a brand and has their name on something, most often a skateboard deck. It used to be similar in skateboarding in that you had to work your way through the amateur circuit at skate competitions until you were good enough to be pro.

Which makes this an even harder comparison, as the definition of pro is pretty different between the two. A lot of money in mountain biking but a lot of that money goes to brands and therefore products, development, research, advertising, etc. I do know that Aaron Gwin recently stated that he clears about $1m a year across everything from sponsorships to race winnings.  Only people who ride like he does (very few) are going to make anything significant like that.


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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2021, 04:20:21 AM »
Expand Quote
Anyone have that DC document still or know where to find it? What I remember is that Cobra was making like 500k per year and fucking Mikey Taylor like 300k and that just seems kinda crazy.
[close]

I was the one who originally posted it -- the numbers were buried deep in the Quiksilver bankruptcy filings. I remember looking at it again shortly thereafter and some of the info had already been redacted. Just did a cursory search for it right now and it seems like the whole thing has been scrubbed from the internet unless it's still available in some kind of subscription service legal documents database. Unfortunately, I did not save it or screenshot it and the thread only lasted here on Slap for a day at the most before the powers that be deleted it so the info might just be lost to time. Like you said, I also recall Mikey Taylor making an obnoxious amount of money that year(like $50k a month).

It’s hard to think Mikey Taylor has ever had a single fan

Giza Butler

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2021, 04:31:42 AM »
With the salary issue, it also comes along another problem that I feel is the Elephant in the Room, and it's been somehow addressed by Stevie Williams but (for my prospesctive) in a goofy/tough guy way.

In his NineClub Stop and Chat, he referred to a skateboard police, who basically regulates what's cool and what's not, but seriously think about if we had a union, basically stating: if you have a shoe sponsor, you should be paid minimum X $'s, if it's a board brand X and so and so.

Same it would go with X brand entering the scene, there should be minimum quotas to be reached in order for it to be validated and making sure that they're properly giving back etc.

But I know this is utopic at its finest. I'll crawl back under my Das Kapital.
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manysnakes

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2021, 07:06:49 AM »
Expand Quote
So anyway, this is to say that there isn’t a strong A-to-B here between MTB and skate. They reflect very different demographics and the money comes from very different places. The one similarity is they’re mostly all broke.
[close]

A mountain bike pro could be anyone who enters races in the pro/elite categories and earns money. A pro skateboarder is generally considered someone who is sponsored by a brand and has their name on something, most often a skateboard deck. It used to be similar in skateboarding in that you had to work your way through the amateur circuit at skate competitions until you were good enough to be pro.

Which makes this an even harder comparison, as the definition of pro is pretty different between the two. A lot of money in mountain biking but a lot of that money goes to brands and therefore products, development, research, advertising, etc. I do know that Aaron Gwin recently stated that he clears about $1m a year across everything from sponsorships to race winnings.  Only people who ride like he does (very few) are going to make anything significant like that.



Oh definitely. I worked in the bike industry for almost two decades so I couldn’t count the number of “pro” (as in UCI or USAC pro-licensed) cyclists I’ve known. Two of them were on top pros teams in Europe, and those are the only two who ever made a living at it, meaning that they made like $36,000 or something, plus bonuses and winnings (which they had to share with their team). Both are in America now, working regular jobs. One was, until recently, still selling his old team kits on Craigslist.

For every Gwin-level pro, there are literally thousands of nobodies who make literally nothing.
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shannamal

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2021, 09:33:27 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
So anyway, this is to say that there isn’t a strong A-to-B here between MTB and skate. They reflect very different demographics and the money comes from very different places. The one similarity is they’re mostly all broke.
[close]

A mountain bike pro could be anyone who enters races in the pro/elite categories and earns money. A pro skateboarder is generally considered someone who is sponsored by a brand and has their name on something, most often a skateboard deck. It used to be similar in skateboarding in that you had to work your way through the amateur circuit at skate competitions until you were good enough to be pro.

Which makes this an even harder comparison, as the definition of pro is pretty different between the two. A lot of money in mountain biking but a lot of that money goes to brands and therefore products, development, research, advertising, etc. I do know that Aaron Gwin recently stated that he clears about $1m a year across everything from sponsorships to race winnings.  Only people who ride like he does (very few) are going to make anything significant like that.


[close]

Oh definitely. I worked in the bike industry for almost two decades so I couldn’t count the number of “pro” (as in UCI or USAC pro-licensed) cyclists I’ve known. Two of them were on top pros teams in Europe, and those are the only two who ever made a living at it, meaning that they made like $36,000 or something, plus bonuses and winnings (which they had to share with their team). Both are in America now, working regular jobs. One was, until recently, still selling his old team kits on Craigslist.

For every Gwin-level pro, there are literally thousands of nobodies who make literally nothing.

hahhaha please tell me it's rock racing kits


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cky enthusiast

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2021, 04:45:53 AM »
it’s almost been long enough for rock racing to come back

Babyyoghurt

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Re: Salaries in Skate? This is what MTB riders make.
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2021, 08:09:12 AM »
it’s almost been long enough for rock racing to come back

Legion of Los Angeles is basically the modern day version of RR.