Author Topic: True correlation between wheel size and hardness.  (Read 1128 times)

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Mugen_G

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True correlation between wheel size and hardness.
« on: May 11, 2021, 07:16:48 AM »
I read somewhere that the smaller a wheel gets the harder it wants to be...
No I wasn't sure what to make of this, did that mean that a 97a wheel would be softer at 56 mm and much harder at 52 mm?

Or would that mean that a 56 mm 97a wheel would be softer at 56 mm and then progressively get harder as it wears down to 52 mm?


The reason I ask is because I have discovered that I love slimeballs vomit's 97a formula I find it the perfect balance between speed, grip and slide without rattling my teeth off...

I have the 54mm and kind of wish they made a 52mm.
So I've looked for alternative brands.
So far besides generics I found Autobahn makes a 52mm 97a...
But they're hard as hell and even kind of brittle...
I think the only reason they're not icy is because I've yet to wear off the thread on them.
If their 97a feels like a 101a...
I'd hate to see what THEIR 101a feels like....

Does anyone have any experience wearing down a wheel by at least 4mm to know if they change in hardness?

Mugen_G

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Re: True correlation between wheel size and hardness.
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2021, 09:15:09 PM »
Appreciate the response.
Those are massive threads...(couldn't find where they metion size affecting hardness)
But they all immediately seem to point to spitfire f4 97a's.

I have a handful of wheels at the moment including some 53mm 99a spitfire tablets and bones 50mm 99a V1's as well as some mini logo 56mm 95a's side cuts.

But I tend to gravitate towards conical or asymmetrical (spitfire seems to call these "lock ons") shapes.
The vomit minis are obviously a perfect example.

The mini logo's are a nice mix of soft, smooth and grip with a tiny bit of slide...but they're heavy and bouncy.
I wonder if the 52mm 95a would harden enough and be lighter...

I also have these bizarre eulogy anti rocker roller bones that I've been skating on my Tensor mag lows.
They're 47mm and 101a but they feel super smooth and actually have a slight glide to them...
But they're not even true wheels....lol

I've noticed no one ever talks about Speedlab wheels..
They also have a 53mm in 97a is their quality just not up to par?

Lazyskater

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Re: True correlation between wheel size and hardness.
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2021, 06:37:16 AM »
Appreciate the response.
Those are massive threads...(couldn't find where they metion size affecting hardness)
But they all immediately seem to point to spitfire f4 97a's.

I have a handful of wheels at the moment including some 53mm 99a spitfire tablets and bones 50mm 99a V1's as well as some mini logo 56mm 95a's side cuts.

But I tend to gravitate towards conical or asymmetrical (spitfire seems to call these "lock ons") shapes.
The vomit minis are obviously a perfect example.

The mini logo's are a nice mix of soft, smooth and grip with a tiny bit of slide...but they're heavy and bouncy.
I wonder if the 52mm 95a would harden enough and be lighter...

I also have these bizarre eulogy anti rocker roller bones that I've been skating on my Tensor mag lows.
They're 47mm and 101a but they feel super smooth and actually have a slight glide to them...
But they're not even true wheels....lol

I've noticed no one ever talks about Speedlab wheels..
They also have a 53mm in 97a is their quality just not up to par?

Speedlab have great 97a wheels. I have the 58s on my bowl setup. Their wheels have a really wide contact patch that may turn people off.

sketchyrider

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Re: True correlation between wheel size and hardness.
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2021, 06:54:05 AM »
i think the idea that "the smaller the wheel size, the harder the wheel wants to be" really is an observation that small, soft durometer wheels are pretty much no good for anything.

soft durometer urethane is inherently slower, and small wheels are inherently slower too. so put the two together and you've got a slow, mushy, less durable wheel with no real reason to exist.

baustin

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Re: True correlation between wheel size and hardness.
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2021, 07:24:15 AM »
I could see how a wheel getting smaller thus leaving less urethane material between you and the axles of your trucks/bearings could produce a “harder” feeling wheel, even if the wheel isn’t technically harder. Maybe it could be compared to lowering a car and fitting your wheels with lower profile tires- you’re sure to feel the bumps in the road a lot more than if you were on some supple tires in an SUV

Eric Dolphy

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Re: True correlation between wheel size and hardness.
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2021, 09:48:26 AM »
I could see how a wheel getting smaller thus leaving less urethane material between you and the axles of your trucks/bearings could produce a “harder” feeling wheel, even if the wheel isn’t technically harder. Maybe it could be compared to lowering a car and fitting your wheels with lower profile tires- you’re sure to feel the bumps in the road a lot more than if you were on some supple tires in an SUV
This. The amount of rebound and shock absorption diminishes as the wheel shrinks. In terms of say, an insole, a thick foam insole is going to feel more soft and squishy than a thinner insole of the same density foam.

Frank and Fred

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Re: True correlation between wheel size and hardness.
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2021, 10:11:33 AM »
Surely there is a point where Urethane is 'fully cured' and stops getting any harder?

phlap

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Re: True correlation between wheel size and hardness.
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2021, 12:00:18 PM »
Small wheels might "feel" harder purely because there's less urethane between the street and your bearing.

Think of it this way. A big thick rug is always going to feel softer to walk on than a thinner one made of the same material, purely because there's more of it between your foot and the floor underneath

A small soft wheel is the worst of all possible worlds. Shit slide, and they'll hit every crack.

Go big or go hard or go home.
-Summer of George-

Mugen_G

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Re: True correlation between wheel size and hardness.
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2021, 01:34:05 PM »
I don't mind a large contact patch as the slime balls have it as well. I've never found it to make much of a difference on smooth concrete.

Finally got the autobahn 97a on smooth concrete and they're actually not as bad as I thought as far as grip and slip. In fact I'm starting to see why they're a fairly well regarded brand.
But man they are hard... They sound like porcelain when they hit the concrete.

Rebound is something I didn't really understand.
I just read up on it and didn't know harder wheels have a higher rebound.

The comparison with low profile car wheels makes perfect sense.
As well as the thought as to whether small soft durometer Wheels really serve any purpose beyond cruising...
I actually have a 52 mm 95a set of generics and they're rather odd feeling both hard yet very grippy... Almost in a chunky kind of way...

I would like to try the spitfire F4 97a's as well as the speedlab bill danford 54 mm 97a
But I guess for now I better get to learning how to powerslide and wear down those 54 mm double take vomits...lol
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 01:43:11 PM by Mugen_G »

Mugen_G

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Re: True correlation between wheel size and hardness.
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2021, 01:50:42 PM »
Small wheels might "feel" harder purely because there's less urethane between the street and your bearing.

Think of it this way. A big thick rug is always going to feel softer to walk on than a thinner one made of the same material, purely because there's more of it between your foot and the floor underneath

A small soft wheel is the worst of all possible worlds. Shit slide, and they'll hit every crack.

Go big or go hard or go home.

I agree with this up to a certain extent...
I think 97a is the happy medium.
And considering I've skated up to 90mm...
To me 54mm is small even 56mm isn't THAT big...
I do believe if I was a better skater, the 56mn 95a mini logo's would be the perfect small hill street shredding wheel.
They have a predictable slide on rough surfaces and are still small enough for basic knee level tricks.

But for smooth park type concrete, I do think I'll stick to 97a either in 53 or 54mm

« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 03:45:30 PM by Mugen_G »