Poll

What tendency do you align with?

Democratic Socialist
9 (37.5%)
Marxist
1 (4.2%)
Leninist/Trotskyist
0 (0%)
Stalinist/Maoist/Hoxhaist/Juche
1 (4.2%)
Left Communist
0 (0%)
Anarcho-Syndicalist/Anarchist Communist
7 (29.2%)
Autonomist
0 (0%)
Other
6 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Voting closes: February 24, 2049, 03:20:18 PM

Author Topic: Where my leftists at?  (Read 8006 times)

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DaleSr

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2021, 01:29:32 PM »
I read through the key Russian anarchist philosophers and while their critiques of everyone else are solid, I find them to be too romantic in their beliefs of what society could look like post capitalism.

Bakunin is gnarly and his critiques of Marx were on point. His critiques of capitalism and power are amazing as well. But, fucking hell, his ideas led to some gnarly actions by the чёрное знамя that make for a good action movie but we're probably bad for society.

Kropotkin had a nice idealistic vision an anarcho society. But, it's too idealistic.

Eventually, having gone through a poli sci theory class at uni, I settled on Rawls as putting forward the best way to structure society and the beat rationale to support this system.


Finally, while the far right idiots are annoying/scary, I'm sometimes bummed in the far left dudes who have the right conclusion but got there in the stupidest way. It creates annoying ideological inconsistencies. I know one far left skate dude who is left only on popular topics but looks the other way when all his friends are exploited by a local "businessman." Also, he gets praised for some insanely selfish shit, which drives me bonkers.

Kropotkin seems sick, but yeah i agree that much of it seems like "if everything goes well and nothing bad happens it would be sick of this was what we could do"

It's a shame that basic social democracy seems like such an impossibility in this country that it constrains our horizons
Sinner really is making the US look like some sort of bandana republic.

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Billy Bitchcakes

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2021, 01:51:53 PM »
Expand Quote
Iím like 85% leftist. In general I think people who share my ideology are too focused on social issues and not pragmatic long term shit.

I agree with most of the major left shit: social safety nets, regulated capitalism, universal healthcare, environmentalism, small business, abortion rights, more space funding, less military funding, police reform, prison reform, etc.

The most ďextremeĒ left view I have is that slave reparations are owed, but hundreds of years of free labor back pay would brick the economy. So I think some form of tax exemption or scholarship for people with predominant slave ancestry is fair. Itís pretty easy to link the legacy of Slavery/Jim crow to poverty in black communities, so miss me with the ďbigotry of low expectationsĒ bullshit.

The most common left thing Iím not in support of is gun control. I agree with the sentiment (and gun culture is corny) but I need to see two things first: Drastic police reform, and a well articulated plan to crack down on the firearms black market; until then itís a no for me dawg.
[close]

I'm with you on the gun control. In my opinion, if you believe that police are violent and racist, it seems pretty foolish to want them to have a monopoly on the means to violence. Only a lib would say that police are bad but no one else should be able to own a gun

The abundance of guns in the USA doesn't seem to have done much to stop police shooting people though?
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sketchyrider

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2021, 02:09:41 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I read through the key Russian anarchist philosophers and while their critiques of everyone else are solid, I find them to be too romantic in their beliefs of what society could look like post capitalism.

Bakunin is gnarly and his critiques of Marx were on point. His critiques of capitalism and power are amazing as well. But, fucking hell, his ideas led to some gnarly actions by the чёрное знамя that make for a good action movie but we're probably bad for society.

Kropotkin had a nice idealistic vision an anarcho society. But, it's too idealistic.

Eventually, having gone through a poli sci theory class at uni, I settled on Rawls as putting forward the best way to structure society and the beat rationale to support this system.


Finally, while the far right idiots are annoying/scary, I'm sometimes bummed in the far left dudes who have the right conclusion but got there in the stupidest way. It creates annoying ideological inconsistencies. I know one far left skate dude who is left only on popular topics but looks the other way when all his friends are exploited by a local "businessman." Also, he gets praised for some insanely selfish shit, which drives me bonkers.
[close]
Do you mind giving an example?
[close]

Tucker Carlson is based now, according to some lefties?

But yeah, neither left, nor right would argue against clean water/better schools, right? However, getting there would not look the same...

i used to think this, but there really are people that don't care if poor people can't access basic needs

TheCrimsonShroud

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2021, 02:48:23 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I read through the key Russian anarchist philosophers and while their critiques of everyone else are solid, I find them to be too romantic in their beliefs of what society could look like post capitalism.

Bakunin is gnarly and his critiques of Marx were on point. His critiques of capitalism and power are amazing as well. But, fucking hell, his ideas led to some gnarly actions by the чёрное знамя that make for a good action movie but we're probably bad for society.

Kropotkin had a nice idealistic vision an anarcho society. But, it's too idealistic.

Eventually, having gone through a poli sci theory class at uni, I settled on Rawls as putting forward the best way to structure society and the beat rationale to support this system.


Finally, while the far right idiots are annoying/scary, I'm sometimes bummed in the far left dudes who have the right conclusion but got there in the stupidest way. It creates annoying ideological inconsistencies. I know one far left skate dude who is left only on popular topics but looks the other way when all his friends are exploited by a local "businessman." Also, he gets praised for some insanely selfish shit, which drives me bonkers.
[close]
Do you mind giving an example?
[close]

Tucker Carlson is based now, according to some lefties?

But yeah, neither left, nor right would argue against clean water/better schools, right? However, getting there would not look the same...
[close]

i used to think this, but there really are people that don't care if poor people can't access basic needs
1000% this. I will say that I'm a leftist and not a liberal. I think there's a very important distinction to be made. I'll also say that part of recognizing that distinction involved becoming aware that the right (at it's root, not necessarily an individual level) absolutely does not care about certain people not having access to basic needs. I'll give you one guess as to what the defining characteristic of those deemed undeserving is.
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SneakySecrets

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2021, 03:27:33 PM »
I guess Iím your typical anarcho-techno-syncrotypic-monolithic-lactose intolerant-hexidecimal-proto-hydrophilic-sycophantic-wedgiecrat looking for likeminded singlesÖ no fatties.
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Deputy Wendell

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2021, 03:32:51 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Iím like 85% leftist. In general I think people who share my ideology are too focused on social issues and not pragmatic long term shit.

I agree with most of the major left shit: social safety nets, regulated capitalism, universal healthcare, environmentalism, small business, abortion rights, more space funding, less military funding, police reform, prison reform, etc.

The most ďextremeĒ left view I have is that slave reparations are owed, but hundreds of years of free labor back pay would brick the economy. So I think some form of tax exemption or scholarship for people with predominant slave ancestry is fair. Itís pretty easy to link the legacy of Slavery/Jim crow to poverty in black communities, so miss me with the ďbigotry of low expectationsĒ bullshit.

The most common left thing Iím not in support of is gun control. I agree with the sentiment (and gun culture is corny) but I need to see two things first: Drastic police reform, and a well articulated plan to crack down on the firearms black market; until then itís a no for me dawg.
[close]

I'm with you on the gun control. In my opinion, if you believe that police are violent and racist, it seems pretty foolish to want them to have a monopoly on the means to violence. Only a lib would say that police are bad but no one else should be able to own a gun
[close]

The abundance of guns in the USA doesn't seem to have done much to stop police shooting people though?

seriously, shut the fuck up...the conversation about guns in the USA is already fucked because of all of the privileged, white, gentrifying hypocrites who've lived such secure and pampered lives that they can't even imagine having to defend themselves against the state in its various forms and/or hateful and/or desperate humans to whom gun laws make no difference...who cares what assholes from other countries who know nothing of what it is to live in the US think. the DEA raided one of the homes that i grew up in, and now that i am actually a law-abiding person in the working class, the ATF looks like it's trying to generate the conditions so that it will ALL OF A SUDDEN have the grounds to do the same to my current home...

Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I read through the key Russian anarchist philosophers and while their critiques of everyone else are solid, I find them to be too romantic in their beliefs of what society could look like post capitalism.

Bakunin is gnarly and his critiques of Marx were on point. His critiques of capitalism and power are amazing as well. But, fucking hell, his ideas led to some gnarly actions by the чёрное знамя that make for a good action movie but we're probably bad for society.

Kropotkin had a nice idealistic vision an anarcho society. But, it's too idealistic.

Eventually, having gone through a poli sci theory class at uni, I settled on Rawls as putting forward the best way to structure society and the beat rationale to support this system.


Finally, while the far right idiots are annoying/scary, I'm sometimes bummed in the far left dudes who have the right conclusion but got there in the stupidest way. It creates annoying ideological inconsistencies. I know one far left skate dude who is left only on popular topics but looks the other way when all his friends are exploited by a local "businessman." Also, he gets praised for some insanely selfish shit, which drives me bonkers.
[close]
Do you mind giving an example?
[close]

Tucker Carlson is based now, according to some lefties?

But yeah, neither left, nor right would argue against clean water/better schools, right? However, getting there would not look the same...
[close]

i used to think this, but there really are people that don't care if poor people can't access basic needs
[close]
1000% this. I will say that I'm a leftist and not a liberal. I think there's a very important distinction to be made. I'll also say that part of recognizing that distinction involved becoming aware that the right (at it's root, not necessarily an individual level) absolutely does not care about certain people not having access to basic needs. I'll give you one guess as to what the defining characteristic of those deemed undeserving is.

speaking of "privileged, white, gentrifying hypocrites," fuck "liberals." i am a far leftist and "liberals" are a whole other kind of shit white person in this country. so, to be clear, fuck "liberals"...there is a dormant Amy Cooper in everyone of them...call the police to lie about being assaulted by an "other," all while being sure to designate that "other" by the latest, most p.c. designation.

"conservatives" and people on the "right" are blatant and shameless about not caring "about certain people not having access to basic needs"..."liberals" on the other hand are subtle and artful about not caring "about certain people not having access to basic needs"

all of that out of the way, it's always interesting to me to see modern-day leftists who are "Wobblies" (this is to you vagrant). i have researched and written on the IWW pretty extensively, including a bunch of archival research on the "Little Red Songbook" at the Newberry Library in Chicago, I've written a few things on Joe Hill, and one of my proudest pieces of writing was on the time Elizabeth Gurley Flynn and Claudia Jones spent in prison together, and My Life as a Political Prisoner: The Alderson Story is on my bookshelf.

not sure how anyone can claim to be of/on the left, and not be unionized...or at least aspiring to it...

DaleSr

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2021, 03:51:36 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Iím like 85% leftist. In general I think people who share my ideology are too focused on social issues and not pragmatic long term shit.

I agree with most of the major left shit: social safety nets, regulated capitalism, universal healthcare, environmentalism, small business, abortion rights, more space funding, less military funding, police reform, prison reform, etc.

The most ďextremeĒ left view I have is that slave reparations are owed, but hundreds of years of free labor back pay would brick the economy. So I think some form of tax exemption or scholarship for people with predominant slave ancestry is fair. Itís pretty easy to link the legacy of Slavery/Jim crow to poverty in black communities, so miss me with the ďbigotry of low expectationsĒ bullshit.

The most common left thing Iím not in support of is gun control. I agree with the sentiment (and gun culture is corny) but I need to see two things first: Drastic police reform, and a well articulated plan to crack down on the firearms black market; until then itís a no for me dawg.
[close]

I'm with you on the gun control. In my opinion, if you believe that police are violent and racist, it seems pretty foolish to want them to have a monopoly on the means to violence. Only a lib would say that police are bad but no one else should be able to own a gun
[close]

The abundance of guns in the USA doesn't seem to have done much to stop police shooting people though?

Unfortunately it's a better pitch to Americans to arm more of us civilians, rather than disarm most police officers. Since i find it highly unlikely we go back to Pre-North Hollywood shootout police tactics and level of militarization, let alone UK firearm-less officers, then it makes sense to advocate arming yourself as a matter of deterrence firstly, threatening violence only as a last resort
Sinner really is making the US look like some sort of bandana republic.

Damn your girl got you kreper kingpins? She's a kreper

TheLurper

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2021, 04:40:38 PM »
Can someone explain how the def of leftist and liberal differ from one another? Where did this break come from? Why aren't they synonyms for one another?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nFvhhCulaw

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smokecrack

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2021, 05:08:36 PM »
Much love to all my fellow comrades. Leftists, socialists, communists, anarchists, activists, organizers, environmentalists, greens, union members, etc. From Karl Marx to Cornel West to Slavoj Zizek to Assata Shakur; to everyone who truly identifies as a leftist and knows that the struggle of one is the struggle of all.

100% agree with what Deputy Wendell said: fuck liberals/neo-libs.

Also, I totally recommend Tonight We Riot to all my gamer brothers and sisters (published by the great people over at Means TV)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72xf32FYiQo

Some other organizations/publications/accounts I support: IWW (International Workers of the World), Jacobin Mag, CrimethInc., Adbusters, Veterans for Peace, IGD (It's Going Down), Shout Politics, ICS (Christian Socialists), Black Powder Press, Rose Warfare, Millennial Review, MintPress News, Unicorn Riot, Gravel Institute.

Not to self plug, but if anyone wants to connect on Instagram, my handle is @smokecrack1. Taking a break from social media atm, but will gladly check in and add anyone from here. My partner's account is pretty solid imo. She doesn't post that often, but it's still worth a follow @revolutionwillnotbetelevised16.

cucktard

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2021, 05:41:43 PM »
I think the majority of Americans, and people in general, don’t care what the government does, as long as it doesn’t disturb them too much.

So you can have the bullshit we have now (until it becomes untenable for a critical mass), or you could have socialized medicine and fee college. The majority would get used to it, like Canada did when it was convinced to go with public healthcare.

The big difference (other than lives saved, of course)is that any of these underlying systems affect your worldview. If you grow up in a country with socialized healthcare, knowing that some of your taxes goes to keeping your fellow citizens healthy is normal and good.

Grow up in the US, and the opposite is true. You become selfish and suspicious of everyone else.

This can be extended to all of us growing up in Capitalism and how it has set certain boundaries in our thinking.

I’ve read Chomsky, Goldman, Crimethinc, Kropotkin, Jensen,and the like, and all of them have expanded and challenged my notions of society and economy, but but recently Murray Bookchin is the person who has the most compelling vision and complete critiques of modern industrial capitalism.
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TheCrimsonShroud

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2021, 05:45:56 PM »
Can someone explain how the def of leftist and liberal differ from one another? Where did this break come from? Why aren't they synonyms for one another?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nFvhhCulaw

I'm not half as read as most of the peeps on this thread. I can define the line for me though. A liberal "cares" about social causes at a surface level. The second things aren't right for them the cause is secondary. The second the order in America could change, they're all for the status quo. Really, they're just Republicans that need a way to sleep at night.
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CorneliusCardew

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2021, 07:59:03 PM »
CPUSA member reporting for duty.

Freelancevagrant

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2021, 09:29:28 PM »
The quickest way I can describe the difference between liberal and leftist is as such:

Both neo and classical liberals believe that our current system of governance and economy are in need of some slight changes, but drastic and immediate change isnít needed. In fact drastic change proves to be a huge threat to their privileged place within the current system. (These are your democrats, soc.dems., center both left and right leaning, and mild conservatives etc)

A leftist is someone who believes that drastic social, democratic, and economic change must occur immediately. Generally speaking, this change would occur through a political upheaval driven by the working class. The differences between leftists are the disagreements on how this revolution would take place, and what would happen afterwards. There are a million tendencies that exist within the confines of revolutionary left but a few of top are marxists (and all the variants of Marxism), socialists/libertarian socialists/anarchists (excluding certain schools of thought within anarchism), and a billion more.

Sorry that got long winded.
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Frank and Fred

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2021, 09:39:31 PM »
A huge contingent of contemporary anarchists are pretty critical of the Left.

I am definitely from a Leftist background (was also a card-carrying member of the IWW at one point) but have to admit I have very little faith left in Leftism... Still share many beliefs with many Leftist friends and no I did not go right-wing... I am done with it all. Sounds like a cop out I know but my occupation, social worker, is really where I focus my 'activism.'

You can catch me hugging trees with John Zerzan... I jest... maybe...

DaleSr

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2021, 09:45:02 PM »
The quickest way I can describe the difference between liberal and leftist is as such:

Both neo and classical liberals believe that our current system of governance and economy are in need of some slight changes, but drastic and immediate change isnít needed. In fact drastic change proves to be a huge threat to their privileged place within the current system. (These are your democrats, soc.dems., center both left and right leaning, and mild conservatives etc)

A leftist is someone who believes that drastic social, democratic, and economic change must occur immediately. Generally speaking, this change would occur through a political upheaval driven by the working class. The differences between leftists are the disagreements on how this revolution would take place, and what would happen afterwards. There are a million tendencies that exist within the confines of revolutionary left but a few of top are marxists (and all the variants of Marxism), socialists/libertarian socialists/anarchists (excluding certain schools of thought within anarchism), and a billion more.

Sorry that got long winded.

I thought it was quite concise and well written.

Also with these new revelations about UFOS posadism becomes more and more enticing by the day
Sinner really is making the US look like some sort of bandana republic.

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iKobrakai

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2021, 11:55:25 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I read through the key Russian anarchist philosophers and while their critiques of everyone else are solid, I find them to be too romantic in their beliefs of what society could look like post capitalism.

Bakunin is gnarly and his critiques of Marx were on point. His critiques of capitalism and power are amazing as well. But, fucking hell, his ideas led to some gnarly actions by the чёрное знамя that make for a good action movie but we're probably bad for society.

Kropotkin had a nice idealistic vision an anarcho society. But, it's too idealistic.

Eventually, having gone through a poli sci theory class at uni, I settled on Rawls as putting forward the best way to structure society and the beat rationale to support this system.


Finally, while the far right idiots are annoying/scary, I'm sometimes bummed in the far left dudes who have the right conclusion but got there in the stupidest way. It creates annoying ideological inconsistencies. I know one far left skate dude who is left only on popular topics but looks the other way when all his friends are exploited by a local "businessman." Also, he gets praised for some insanely selfish shit, which drives me bonkers.
[close]
Do you mind giving an example?
[close]

Tucker Carlson is based now, according to some lefties?

But yeah, neither left, nor right would argue against clean water/better schools, right? However, getting there would not look the same...
[close]

i used to think this, but there really are people that don't care if poor people can't access basic needs

Republicans don't, but nobody is dumb enough to participate in elections on that platform. What they say is "We need to improve our schools" but forget to mention that it is already wealthy/white schools.

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2021, 04:51:04 AM »
the only political text iíve read and adhere to is industrial society and its future
with that being said. cky enthusiast you seem like the worst dude with a very low attention span, i mean you never have watched a skate video in its entirley, why dont you just shut the fuck up if you never have to say anyt

TheCrimsonShroud

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2021, 05:54:31 AM »
A huge contingent of contemporary anarchists are pretty critical of the Left.

I am definitely from a Leftist background (was also a card-carrying member of the IWW at one point) but have to admit I have very little faith left in Leftism... Still share many beliefs with many Leftist friends and no I did not go right-wing... I am done with it all. Sounds like a cop out I know but my occupation, social worker, is really where I focus my 'activism.'

You can catch me hugging trees with John Zerzan... I jest... maybe...

I can respect that. I probably lean more towards your disposition as I age. While I think sudden and chaotic social upheaval would be the optimum path to actual change, I think the sad realities of the fact are that there are too many bigots, classist, white folks still kicking for any real change to be enacted or stick.
and he opens his mouth
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pizzafliptofakie

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2021, 06:03:54 AM »

The most common left thing Iím not in support of is gun control. I agree with the sentiment (and gun culture is corny) but I need to see two things first: Drastic police reform, and a well articulated plan to crack down on the firearms black market; until then itís a no for me dawg.


What are your thoughts on other countries implementing gun control after tragic shootings and seeing success? Granted, I don't believe those companies have anywhere near the same level of police corruption as we do, but I still think those numbers mean something. Either way I personally consider myself more of a police abolitionist than anything, but I would hope that addressing both issues in any way would coincide.

cucktard

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2021, 06:22:51 AM »
Expand Quote
A huge contingent of contemporary anarchists are pretty critical of the Left.

I am definitely from a Leftist background (was also a card-carrying member of the IWW at one point) but have to admit I have very little faith left in Leftism... Still share many beliefs with many Leftist friends and no I did not go right-wing... I am done with it all. Sounds like a cop out I know but my occupation, social worker, is really where I focus my 'activism.'

You can catch me hugging trees with John Zerzan... I jest... maybe...
[close]

I can respect that. I probably lean more towards your disposition as I age. While I think sudden and chaotic social upheaval would be the optimum path to actual change, I think the sad realities of the fact are that there are too many bigots, classist, white folks still kicking for any real change to be enacted or stick.

This is my concern with any revolution that might happen in the US.

IN pre-fascist Spain, there was enough education and a grassroots support prior to the revolution that a critical mass of the population was wiling to go for anarchist-syndicalism principles.

There is nothing like that in the States at large, maybe pockets in California, NYC, and Oregon.

But if the government were to disappear tomorrow, youíd have the majority of the country carved up into either militia-run areas or theocratic states fundamentalist enough to make the Taliban look reasonable.

There needs to be a lot more educational work and support for leftist politics before any revolution. I was hoping a Bernie presidency could have softened a core amount of people to the idea.
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jorge

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2021, 06:50:56 AM »
Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw

Freelancevagrant

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2021, 06:57:52 AM »
Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw

No. I donít think thereís a place for an entrepreneur and venture capitalist who endorsed Bloomberg for president.

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jorge

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2021, 07:05:11 AM »
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Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw
[close]

No. I donít think thereís a place for an entrepreneur and venture capitalist who endorsed Bloomberg for president.


Even if I want a much stronger social safety net/free education/significantly higher tax rates on corporations & the wealthy/etc?  I certainly do not believe that being an entrepreneur is bad or makes you not liberal/progressive so I guess I'll see myself out. 

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2021, 07:11:43 AM »
I am leftist. I am also a political scientist and a school teacher. Marxist theory to me is simply the best way we have for understanding our current political and social environment.

I would also say I am a bit of an uneasy Marxist, though. I distrust the state, I am scared of state burocracies and I find a lot of Marxist political criticism to be weirdly conservative. I am very much pro-union and I have been active in union struggles.


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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2021, 07:13:10 AM »
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Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw
[close]

No. I donít think thereís a place for an entrepreneur and venture capitalist who endorsed Bloomberg for president.


[close]
Even if I want a much stronger social safety net/free education/significantly higher tax rates on corporations & the wealthy/etc?  I certainly do not believe that being an entrepreneur is bad or makes you not liberal/progressive so I guess I'll see myself out.

The problem with it is that while that would be great as a bandaid his ultimate goal is just to fix for capitalism, which is inherently reactionary. His plans donít fix anything for the workers of this country (or any other), they simply make their oppression and stagnation mildly more tolerable, and whole heartedly prevent the creation of a post scarcity society.

You donít have to see yourself out! I think this would be a great thread for you to stick around in. Ultimately itís your choice, but I think there will probably be some ideas discussed here that would be conducive to your interests, and I apologize for coming across so fucking harsh.
Unity cunt, touch one touch all
Weíre in this together donít be silly mate

jorge

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2021, 07:27:14 AM »
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Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw
[close]

No. I donít think thereís a place for an entrepreneur and venture capitalist who endorsed Bloomberg for president.


[close]
Even if I want a much stronger social safety net/free education/significantly higher tax rates on corporations & the wealthy/etc?  I certainly do not believe that being an entrepreneur is bad or makes you not liberal/progressive so I guess I'll see myself out.
[close]

The problem with it is that while that would be great as a bandaid his ultimate goal is just to fix for capitalism, which is inherently reactionary. His plans donít fix anything for the workers of this country (or any other), they simply make their oppression and stagnation mildly more tolerable, and whole heartedly prevent the creation of a post scarcity society.

You donít have to see yourself out! I think this would be a great thread for you to stick around in. Ultimately itís your choice, but I think there will probably be some ideas discussed here that would be conducive to your interests, and I apologize for coming across so fucking harsh.
So you would be....anti capitalism I assume.  Which I get-but I also agree with Mr. Galloway in that what we currently have is not really capitalism.  Do you think that it is impossible to be a "leftist" and also believe that properly functioning capitalism is a workable system? 

cucktard

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2021, 07:55:54 AM »
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Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw
[close]

No. I don’t think there’s a place for an entrepreneur and venture capitalist who endorsed Bloomberg for president.


[close]
Even if I want a much stronger social safety net/free education/significantly higher tax rates on corporations & the wealthy/etc?  I certainly do not believe that being an entrepreneur is bad or makes you not liberal/progressive so I guess I'll see myself out.
[close]

The problem with it is that while that would be great as a bandaid his ultimate goal is just to fix for capitalism, which is inherently reactionary. His plans don’t fix anything for the workers of this country (or any other), they simply make their oppression and stagnation mildly more tolerable, and whole heartedly prevent the creation of a post scarcity society.

You don’t have to see yourself out! I think this would be a great thread for you to stick around in. Ultimately it’s your choice, but I think there will probably be some ideas discussed here that would be conducive to your interests, and I apologize for coming across so fucking harsh.
[close]
So you would be....anti capitalism I assume.  Which I get-but I also agree with Mr. Galloway in that what we currently have is not really capitalism.  Do you think that it is impossible to be a "leftist" and also believe that properly functioning capitalism is a workable system?

Yes, that is pretty much against the tenets of leftism, ie: socialism, which means worker own the means of production.

There are aspects of Capitalism, such as markets, that reworked in left theories like Mutualism, but Capitalism itself? No.

The concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, and the ability to retain huge swaths of private property are fundamentally against leftism, as it’s traditionally understood.

(Terms like ‘leftism’ and ‘libertarian’ have very different meanings in the US compared to traditional and international usages)

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somethingmustbreaknow

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2021, 08:18:01 AM »
i'll forever be grateful for the worker's movements and socialists' achievements. regulated working hours, standards, pay, social insurance, redistribution, welfare state kick ass.

Freelancevagrant

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2021, 08:23:05 AM »
I am leftist. I am also a political scientist and a school teacher. Marxist theory to me is simply the best way we have for understanding our current political and social environment.

I would also say I am a bit of an uneasy Marxist, though. I distrust the state, I am scared of state burocracies and I find a lot of Marxist political criticism to be weirdly conservative. I am very much pro-union and I have been active in union struggles.

Iíve found that all stateist interpretations of Marxism (All that tankie bullshit) veer into authoritarian state capitalism real fucking quick.

Sounds like you flirt with libertarian Marxism/council communism which I can 100% get behind.
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Weíre in this together donít be silly mate

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2021, 08:26:33 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw
[close]

No. I donít think thereís a place for an entrepreneur and venture capitalist who endorsed Bloomberg for president.


[close]
Even if I want a much stronger social safety net/free education/significantly higher tax rates on corporations & the wealthy/etc?  I certainly do not believe that being an entrepreneur is bad or makes you not liberal/progressive so I guess I'll see myself out.
[close]

The problem with it is that while that would be great as a bandaid his ultimate goal is just to fix for capitalism, which is inherently reactionary. His plans donít fix anything for the workers of this country (or any other), they simply make their oppression and stagnation mildly more tolerable, and whole heartedly prevent the creation of a post scarcity society.

You donít have to see yourself out! I think this would be a great thread for you to stick around in. Ultimately itís your choice, but I think there will probably be some ideas discussed here that would be conducive to your interests, and I apologize for coming across so fucking harsh.
[close]
So you would be....anti capitalism I assume.  Which I get-but I also agree with Mr. Galloway in that what we currently have is not really capitalism.  Do you think that it is impossible to be a "leftist" and also believe that properly functioning capitalism is a workable system?
[close]

Yes, that is pretty much against the tenets of leftism, ie: socialism, which means worker own the means of production.

There are aspects of Capitalism, such as markets, that reworked in left theories like Mutualism, but Capitalism itself? No.

The concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, and the ability to retain huge swaths of private property are fundamentally against leftism, as itís traditionally understood.

(Terms like Ďleftismí and Ďlibertarianí have very different meanings in the US compared to traditional and international usages)

It is a widely used neoliberal argument against the criticism of capitalist markets and all their shortcomings, that the markets are simply not free enough to work correctly. However, All markets have always been regulated in some ways.

Free markets are simply a myth, an abstract ideal.

 Just like the false equivalence of capitalism and freedom. It is no coincidence that Milton Friedman and his Chicago school first applied his monetarist theory in the then fascist military dictatorship of Chile and that China is currently doing so well in the global capitalist markets. Freedom in some ways is a problem for capitalism.