Poll

What tendency do you align with?

Democratic Socialist
9 (37.5%)
Marxist
1 (4.2%)
Leninist/Trotskyist
0 (0%)
Stalinist/Maoist/Hoxhaist/Juche
1 (4.2%)
Left Communist
0 (0%)
Anarcho-Syndicalist/Anarchist Communist
7 (29.2%)
Autonomist
0 (0%)
Other
6 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Voting closes: February 24, 2049, 03:20:18 PM

Author Topic: Where my leftists at?  (Read 8002 times)

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jorge

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #60 on: June 10, 2021, 08:26:51 AM »
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Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw
[close]

No. I don’t think there’s a place for an entrepreneur and venture capitalist who endorsed Bloomberg for president.


[close]
Even if I want a much stronger social safety net/free education/significantly higher tax rates on corporations & the wealthy/etc?  I certainly do not believe that being an entrepreneur is bad or makes you not liberal/progressive so I guess I'll see myself out.
[close]

The problem with it is that while that would be great as a bandaid his ultimate goal is just to fix for capitalism, which is inherently reactionary. His plans don’t fix anything for the workers of this country (or any other), they simply make their oppression and stagnation mildly more tolerable, and whole heartedly prevent the creation of a post scarcity society.

You don’t have to see yourself out! I think this would be a great thread for you to stick around in. Ultimately it’s your choice, but I think there will probably be some ideas discussed here that would be conducive to your interests, and I apologize for coming across so fucking harsh.
[close]
So you would be....anti capitalism I assume.  Which I get-but I also agree with Mr. Galloway in that what we currently have is not really capitalism.  Do you think that it is impossible to be a "leftist" and also believe that properly functioning capitalism is a workable system?
[close]

Yes, that is pretty much against the tenets of leftism, ie: socialism, which means worker own the means of production.

There are aspects of Capitalism, such as markets, that reworked in left theories like Mutualism, but Capitalism itself? No.

The concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, and the ability to retain huge swaths of private property are fundamentally against leftism, as it’s traditionally understood.

(Terms like ‘leftism’ and ‘libertarian’ have very different meanings in the US compared to traditional and international usages)
Fair enough.  So-if I support a strong safety net, free education, higher taxes on corporations, cap on CEO compensation tied to employee wages, equal rights for all minorities/women/LGBTQ etc/gun control/minimized military spending and global presence etc....but I believe in capitalism can work (as opposed to communism, which I have not seen much evidence of it working)....what does that make me?  Is this not left?  Honestly asking.

S.

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #61 on: June 10, 2021, 08:39:59 AM »
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Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw
[close]

No. I don’t think there’s a place for an entrepreneur and venture capitalist who endorsed Bloomberg for president.


[close]
Even if I want a much stronger social safety net/free education/significantly higher tax rates on corporations & the wealthy/etc?  I certainly do not believe that being an entrepreneur is bad or makes you not liberal/progressive so I guess I'll see myself out.
[close]

The problem with it is that while that would be great as a bandaid his ultimate goal is just to fix for capitalism, which is inherently reactionary. His plans don’t fix anything for the workers of this country (or any other), they simply make their oppression and stagnation mildly more tolerable, and whole heartedly prevent the creation of a post scarcity society.

You don’t have to see yourself out! I think this would be a great thread for you to stick around in. Ultimately it’s your choice, but I think there will probably be some ideas discussed here that would be conducive to your interests, and I apologize for coming across so fucking harsh.
[close]
So you would be....anti capitalism I assume.  Which I get-but I also agree with Mr. Galloway in that what we currently have is not really capitalism.  Do you think that it is impossible to be a "leftist" and also believe that properly functioning capitalism is a workable system?
[close]

Yes, that is pretty much against the tenets of leftism, ie: socialism, which means worker own the means of production.

There are aspects of Capitalism, such as markets, that reworked in left theories like Mutualism, but Capitalism itself? No.

The concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, and the ability to retain huge swaths of private property are fundamentally against leftism, as it’s traditionally understood.

(Terms like ‘leftism’ and ‘libertarian’ have very different meanings in the US compared to traditional and international usages)
[close]
Fair enough.  So-if I support a strong safety net, free education, higher taxes on corporations, cap on CEO compensation tied to employee wages, equal rights for all minorities/women/LGBTQ etc/gun control/minimized military spending and global presence etc....but I believe in capitalism can work (as opposed to communism, which I have not seen much evidence of it working)....what does that make me?  Is this not left?  Honestly asking.

In Germany we would call you a Social Democrat. There are a lot of successful parties who run pretty much on that exact platform in Europe.

They are considered „middle left parties“. The average European finds it pretty bizarre you don‘t really have that party in the US.

Freelancevagrant

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #62 on: June 10, 2021, 09:07:25 AM »
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Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw
[close]

No. I don’t think there’s a place for an entrepreneur and venture capitalist who endorsed Bloomberg for president.


[close]
Even if I want a much stronger social safety net/free education/significantly higher tax rates on corporations & the wealthy/etc?  I certainly do not believe that being an entrepreneur is bad or makes you not liberal/progressive so I guess I'll see myself out.
[close]

The problem with it is that while that would be great as a bandaid his ultimate goal is just to fix for capitalism, which is inherently reactionary. His plans don’t fix anything for the workers of this country (or any other), they simply make their oppression and stagnation mildly more tolerable, and whole heartedly prevent the creation of a post scarcity society.

You don’t have to see yourself out! I think this would be a great thread for you to stick around in. Ultimately it’s your choice, but I think there will probably be some ideas discussed here that would be conducive to your interests, and I apologize for coming across so fucking harsh.
[close]
So you would be....anti capitalism I assume.  Which I get-but I also agree with Mr. Galloway in that what we currently have is not really capitalism.  Do you think that it is impossible to be a "leftist" and also believe that properly functioning capitalism is a workable system?
[close]

Yes, that is pretty much against the tenets of leftism, ie: socialism, which means worker own the means of production.

There are aspects of Capitalism, such as markets, that reworked in left theories like Mutualism, but Capitalism itself? No.

The concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, and the ability to retain huge swaths of private property are fundamentally against leftism, as it’s traditionally understood.

(Terms like ‘leftism’ and ‘libertarian’ have very different meanings in the US compared to traditional and international usages)
[close]
Fair enough.  So-if I support a strong safety net, free education, higher taxes on corporations, cap on CEO compensation tied to employee wages, equal rights for all minorities/women/LGBTQ etc/gun control/minimized military spending and global presence etc....but I believe in capitalism can work (as opposed to communism, which I have not seen much evidence of it working)....what does that make me?  Is this not left?  Honestly asking.
[close]

In Germany we would call you a Social Democrat. There are a lot of successful parties who run pretty much on that exact platform in Europe.

They are considered „middle left parties“. The average European finds it pretty bizarre you don‘t really have that party in the US.

Yeah, pretty much a social Democrat to a T.

In terms of not seeing any examples of it working, I think you might be looking in the wrong places my dude. Look into the Ukrainian Free Territory, The Kronstadt Rebellion, Revolutionary Catalonia, and the Korean People’s Association in Manchuria, to name a few.
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jorge

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2021, 09:50:54 AM »
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Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw
[close]

No. I don’t think there’s a place for an entrepreneur and venture capitalist who endorsed Bloomberg for president.


[close]
Even if I want a much stronger social safety net/free education/significantly higher tax rates on corporations & the wealthy/etc?  I certainly do not believe that being an entrepreneur is bad or makes you not liberal/progressive so I guess I'll see myself out.
[close]

The problem with it is that while that would be great as a bandaid his ultimate goal is just to fix for capitalism, which is inherently reactionary. His plans don’t fix anything for the workers of this country (or any other), they simply make their oppression and stagnation mildly more tolerable, and whole heartedly prevent the creation of a post scarcity society.

You don’t have to see yourself out! I think this would be a great thread for you to stick around in. Ultimately it’s your choice, but I think there will probably be some ideas discussed here that would be conducive to your interests, and I apologize for coming across so fucking harsh.
[close]
So you would be....anti capitalism I assume.  Which I get-but I also agree with Mr. Galloway in that what we currently have is not really capitalism.  Do you think that it is impossible to be a "leftist" and also believe that properly functioning capitalism is a workable system?
[close]

Yes, that is pretty much against the tenets of leftism, ie: socialism, which means worker own the means of production.

There are aspects of Capitalism, such as markets, that reworked in left theories like Mutualism, but Capitalism itself? No.

The concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, and the ability to retain huge swaths of private property are fundamentally against leftism, as it’s traditionally understood.

(Terms like ‘leftism’ and ‘libertarian’ have very different meanings in the US compared to traditional and international usages)
[close]
Fair enough.  So-if I support a strong safety net, free education, higher taxes on corporations, cap on CEO compensation tied to employee wages, equal rights for all minorities/women/LGBTQ etc/gun control/minimized military spending and global presence etc....but I believe in capitalism can work (as opposed to communism, which I have not seen much evidence of it working)....what does that make me?  Is this not left?  Honestly asking.
[close]

In Germany we would call you a Social Democrat. There are a lot of successful parties who run pretty much on that exact platform in Europe.

They are considered „middle left parties“. The average European finds it pretty bizarre you don‘t really have that party in the US.
[close]

Yeah, pretty much a social Democrat to a T.

In terms of not seeing any examples of it working, I think you might be looking in the wrong places my dude. Look into the Ukrainian Free Territory, The Kronstadt Rebellion, Revolutionary Catalonia, and the Korean People’s Association in Manchuria, to name a few.
I am more than fine with being categorized as a social Democrat.  "Middle left" is my comfort zone I guess.  I'm also in my 40s with children a house etc, so I guess I'm not racing to start any bloody revolutions at the moment.

But...those 4 places you listed kind of make my point about communism not having much success.  If these are the best examples....I mean, put them up against the success of places that incorporate a more "socially democratic" philosophy.  Is communism successfully practiced in these places still?  Are these places highly ranked on the worlds happiest countries lists? 

Also I don't want to be the poster boy for capitalism here, not my intention at all ha.

Freelancevagrant

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2021, 10:15:34 AM »
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Is there room here for...mild leftists?  I'm a Scott Galloway guy-fix capitalism don't throw it out.  Dude crushed it on Bill Maher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8AshEYrKw
[close]

No. I don’t think there’s a place for an entrepreneur and venture capitalist who endorsed Bloomberg for president.


[close]
Even if I want a much stronger social safety net/free education/significantly higher tax rates on corporations & the wealthy/etc?  I certainly do not believe that being an entrepreneur is bad or makes you not liberal/progressive so I guess I'll see myself out.
[close]

The problem with it is that while that would be great as a bandaid his ultimate goal is just to fix for capitalism, which is inherently reactionary. His plans don’t fix anything for the workers of this country (or any other), they simply make their oppression and stagnation mildly more tolerable, and whole heartedly prevent the creation of a post scarcity society.

You don’t have to see yourself out! I think this would be a great thread for you to stick around in. Ultimately it’s your choice, but I think there will probably be some ideas discussed here that would be conducive to your interests, and I apologize for coming across so fucking harsh.
[close]
So you would be....anti capitalism I assume.  Which I get-but I also agree with Mr. Galloway in that what we currently have is not really capitalism.  Do you think that it is impossible to be a "leftist" and also believe that properly functioning capitalism is a workable system?
[close]

Yes, that is pretty much against the tenets of leftism, ie: socialism, which means worker own the means of production.

There are aspects of Capitalism, such as markets, that reworked in left theories like Mutualism, but Capitalism itself? No.

The concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, and the ability to retain huge swaths of private property are fundamentally against leftism, as it’s traditionally understood.

(Terms like ‘leftism’ and ‘libertarian’ have very different meanings in the US compared to traditional and international usages)
[close]
Fair enough.  So-if I support a strong safety net, free education, higher taxes on corporations, cap on CEO compensation tied to employee wages, equal rights for all minorities/women/LGBTQ etc/gun control/minimized military spending and global presence etc....but I believe in capitalism can work (as opposed to communism, which I have not seen much evidence of it working)....what does that make me?  Is this not left?  Honestly asking.
[close]

In Germany we would call you a Social Democrat. There are a lot of successful parties who run pretty much on that exact platform in Europe.

They are considered „middle left parties“. The average European finds it pretty bizarre you don‘t really have that party in the US.
[close]

Yeah, pretty much a social Democrat to a T.

In terms of not seeing any examples of it working, I think you might be looking in the wrong places my dude. Look into the Ukrainian Free Territory, The Kronstadt Rebellion, Revolutionary Catalonia, and the Korean People’s Association in Manchuria, to name a few.
[close]
I am more than fine with being categorized as a social Democrat.  "Middle left" is my comfort zone I guess.  I'm also in my 40s with children a house etc, so I guess I'm not racing to start any bloody revolutions at the moment.

But...those 4 places you listed kind of make my point about communism not having much success.  If these are the best examples....I mean, put them up against the success of places that incorporate a more "socially democratic" philosophy.  Is communism successfully practiced in these places still?  Are these places highly ranked on the worlds happiest countries lists? 

Also I don't want to be the poster boy for capitalism here, not my intention at all ha.

Their success shouldn’t be measured off of longevity alone, that would be pretty dismissive. They were all successful in the sense they established autonomous zones with a high standard of living, while also instituting practices that showcase the practical efficacy and organizational framework that are hinging principals of libertarian socialism.

That is why they were successful. They weren’t perfect, but before they had a chance to showcase the power and efficacy of a United working class they were fucking decimated by statist forces.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 12:08:59 PM by Freelancevagrant »
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DaleSr

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2021, 10:19:47 AM »
One of the big issues that i concern myself with is foreign affairs. I think it's incredibly short sighted to create just a social democracy here in the US if it comes at the expense of the rest of the world through brutal imperial policy. That's one of the problems with capitalism as it is currently run here in the US. It necessitates having client states and pseudo colonies to provide us with cheap commodities. And if any of those "partners" in the global market want a better deal or to not just be a potato chip bag that American companies stick their hand in and empty, then they get the boot of the US military or a CIA led coup. Different economic models are possible, it's just that the current one was built to only reward and enrich the classic "capitalist", or owner/CEO/boss. They will constantly hunt for the cheapest labor and materials and will use the state connections they've made to ensure that the global order stays the same.

Sorry for the rant zone, I'm not super well read on theory but i know a lot about world history (RIP Michael Brooks)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 12:57:37 PM by DaleSr »
Sinner really is making the US look like some sort of bandana republic.

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Freelancevagrant

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2021, 12:12:09 PM »
One of the big issues that i concern myself with is foreign affairs. I think it's incredibly short sighted to create just a social democracy here in the US if it comes at the expense of the rest of the world through brutal imperial policy. That's one of the problems with capitalism as it is currently run here in the US. It necessitates having client states and pseudo colonies to provide us with cheap commodities. And if any of those "partners" in the global market want a better deal or to not just be a potato chip bag that American countries stick their hand in and empty, then they get the boot of the US military or a CIA led coup. Different economic models are possible, it's just that the current one was built to only reward and enrich the classic "capitalist", or owner/CEO/boss. They will constantly hunt for the cheapest labor and materials and will use the state connections they've made to ensure that the global order stays the same.

Sorry for the rant zone, I'm not super well read on theory but i know a lot about world history (RIP Michael Brooks)

You bring up a great point in that is that capitalism is one of, if not the main, driving force of imperialism.

To your point about not being well read on theory, don’t sweat that. Knowing the history and conditions is what forms the basis for that theory. Like Marx said, “History repeats itself. First as tragedy, then as farce.”
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ChuckRamone

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2021, 12:37:52 PM »
I came in here to bring up imperialism and it looks like you guys just did. The way the ruling class in the West controls not only capital but also foreign policy is so fucked. They are willing to carry out unbelievably evil actions through the CIA and other intelligence agencies to maintain their power. Imperialism and colonialism never ended, they just morphed into coercive state diplomacy and destabilization efforts through the use of the military, propaganda and CIA. The capitalist oligarchs have us all by the balls in that respect, constantly brainwashing us to view the outside world as enemies. Becoming aware of this in the last few years is what's really opened my eyes to how fucked up late stage capitalism is, and has turned me leftist in my 40s when I was slightly left of center for most of my 20s and 30s. I'm going the reverse trajectory of being a commie in my youth, then a conservative in my old age. I need to read more of the relevant literature and this thread has some good ideas for where to start.

Freelancevagrant

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2021, 01:07:58 PM »
I came in here to bring up imperialism and it looks like you guys just did. The way the ruling class in the West controls not only capital but also foreign policy is so fucked. They are willing to carry out unbelievably evil actions through the CIA and other intelligence agencies to maintain their power. Imperialism and colonialism never ended, they just morphed into coercive state diplomacy and destabilization efforts through the use of the military, propaganda and CIA. The capitalist oligarchs have us all by the balls in that respect, constantly brainwashing us to view the outside world as enemies. Becoming aware of this in the last few years is what's really opened my eyes to how fucked up late stage capitalism is, and has turned me leftist in my 40s when I was slightly left of center for most of my 20s and 30s. I'm going the reverse trajectory of being a commie in my youth, then a conservative in my old age. I need to read more of the relevant literature and this thread has some good ideas for where to start.

Ya love to see it! Let me know if you’d like some more recommendations, because there’s no shortage!

Just so you know, you’re not alone in your reverse trajectory. Here’s a Ted talk from Carne Ross that is well worth the watch. I heard him on a podcast, and sent this video to so many people, glad to sent it to one more!

https://youtu.be/2Hc2_jY4KhY
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DaleSr

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2021, 01:19:59 PM »
I came in here to bring up imperialism and it looks like you guys just did. The way the ruling class in the West controls not only capital but also foreign policy is so fucked. They are willing to carry out unbelievably evil actions through the CIA and other intelligence agencies to maintain their power. Imperialism and colonialism never ended, they just morphed into coercive state diplomacy and destabilization efforts through the use of the military, propaganda and CIA. The capitalist oligarchs have us all by the balls in that respect, constantly brainwashing us to view the outside world as enemies. Becoming aware of this in the last few years is what's really opened my eyes to how fucked up late stage capitalism is, and has turned me leftist in my 40s when I was slightly left of center for most of my 20s and 30s. I'm going the reverse trajectory of being a commie in my youth, then a conservative in my old age. I need to read more of the relevant literature and this thread has some good ideas for where to start.

Hell yeah, i was wondering when you'd pop in here chuck. You were a super welcome contributor in the Kamala and January 6th threads. Speaking of imperialism, i thought i was losing my goddamn mind listening to Kamala spit the most inane drivel about "don't come to the US" in Guatemala and Mexico. They should be saying the same thing to her, please stop coming to our country and fucking it up. Stop training death squads and insane NCOs at the school of the Americas. Stop trying to fucking install psycho Bible thumping freaks in Bolivia, stop trying to push Juan guiado as the "rightful" president of Venezuela, stay the fuck away from Cuba, stop smearing and arresting lula and clearing the way for bolsonaro. I mean fuck, just APOLOGIZE or at least acknowledge the reason why south Americans are fleeing here, because we've been running south America into the ground to keep drugs, cheap fruit, materials and minerals flowing up north.
Sinner really is making the US look like some sort of bandana republic.

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Abyss1

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2021, 01:36:59 PM »

life is a hell ride

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2021, 01:51:36 PM »
i’ve never understood why people bring up catalonia as an example of “functioning” anarcho-syndicalism or whatever because franco crushed them to dust in like a month. was it really “functioning” if it couldn’t organize a worthwhile defense?

i’ve only ever read homage to catalonia so feel free to school me. i’m ostensibly a leftist in that i think dialectical materialism helps explain post industrial struggle in the west but i don’t have much faith in a world post-tech and post-social media to do much other than rearrange deck chairs on the sinking ship of capital.
with that being said. cky enthusiast you seem like the worst dude with a very low attention span, i mean you never have watched a skate video in its entirley, why dont you just shut the fuck up if you never have to say anyt

Freelancevagrant

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2021, 02:27:06 PM »
i’ve never understood why people bring up catalonia as an example of “functioning” anarcho-syndicalism or whatever because franco crushed them to dust in like a month. was it really “functioning” if it couldn’t organize a worthwhile defense?

i’ve only ever read homage to catalonia so feel free to school me. i’m ostensibly a leftist in that i think dialectical materialism helps explain post industrial struggle in the west but i don’t have much faith in a world post-tech and post-social media to do much other than rearrange deck chairs on the sinking ship of capital.

I think that you’re looking at it incorrectly, but I can understand your thought process behind it. But in my opinion, and in that of the rest of libertarian socialists, an example of a functioning anarcho-syndicalist society isn’t measured on how well it can defend itself. It is measured in the sense of how well the workers were able to work cohesively and create a fully functioning, non-hierarchical, truly democratic society that was predicated on the needs of workers and strictly facilitated by the workers.

Also, in tune with your remarks about Franco, they fought for three years (over the largest autonomous zone in history mind you) against Franco and his backings from hitler and as well as allied powers. This was while the CNT-FAI and FIJL were also being suppressed by other republican forces, primarily the POUM, and their soviet backing.

If you want a great book to read on it check this one out

Revolution and the State: Anarchism in The Spanish Civil War 1936-1939

https://www.akpress.org/revolution-and-the-state.html
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GardenSkater77

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #73 on: June 10, 2021, 03:03:50 PM »
I’m not political and I don’t really know what the current definition of leftist means so I took a quiz and it turns out I am left leaning:



You don’t have to sign up for anything and it’s kind of interesting.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2?ec=-4.13&soc=-3.64

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2021, 03:16:35 PM »
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i’ve never understood why people bring up catalonia as an example of “functioning” anarcho-syndicalism or whatever because franco crushed them to dust in like a month. was it really “functioning” if it couldn’t organize a worthwhile defense?

i’ve only ever read homage to catalonia so feel free to school me. i’m ostensibly a leftist in that i think dialectical materialism helps explain post industrial struggle in the west but i don’t have much faith in a world post-tech and post-social media to do much other than rearrange deck chairs on the sinking ship of capital.
[close]

I think that you’re looking at it incorrectly, but I can understand your thought process behind it. But in my opinion, and in that of the rest of libertarian socialists, an example of a functioning anarcho-syndicalist society isn’t measured on how well it can defend itself.

how do you put this at odds with the very real fact that capital will obviously try to crush any society trying to exist outside of its purview? are we kicking the can down the road until power disintegrates?
with that being said. cky enthusiast you seem like the worst dude with a very low attention span, i mean you never have watched a skate video in its entirley, why dont you just shut the fuck up if you never have to say anyt

DaleSr

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #75 on: June 10, 2021, 03:28:59 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqPQ5cVRCxc

Just wanted to spread some positive lefty vibes as well. There's power in a union, there's power in solidarity
Sinner really is making the US look like some sort of bandana republic.

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TheCrimsonShroud

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #76 on: June 10, 2021, 03:44:45 PM »
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A huge contingent of contemporary anarchists are pretty critical of the Left.

I am definitely from a Leftist background (was also a card-carrying member of the IWW at one point) but have to admit I have very little faith left in Leftism... Still share many beliefs with many Leftist friends and no I did not go right-wing... I am done with it all. Sounds like a cop out I know but my occupation, social worker, is really where I focus my 'activism.'

You can catch me hugging trees with John Zerzan... I jest... maybe...
[close]

I can respect that. I probably lean more towards your disposition as I age. While I think sudden and chaotic social upheaval would be the optimum path to actual change, I think the sad realities of the fact are that there are too many bigots, classist, white folks still kicking for any real change to be enacted or stick.
[close]

This is my concern with any revolution that might happen in the US.

IN pre-fascist Spain, there was enough education and a grassroots support prior to the revolution that a critical mass of the population was wiling to go for anarchist-syndicalism principles.

There is nothing like that in the States at large, maybe pockets in California, NYC, and Oregon.

But if the government were to disappear tomorrow, you’d have the majority of the country carved up into either militia-run areas or theocratic states fundamentalist enough to make the Taliban look reasonable.

There needs to be a lot more educational work and support for leftist politics before any revolution. I was hoping a Bernie presidency could have softened a core amount of people to the idea.
Same here, but as with leftism in this country, it was a pipe dream in hindsight. I hate to say it, but this isn’t something that’s going to be resolved in our lifetime. We just have fight a war of attrition. Make every gen more left than the last. I’ve thankfully seen a lot of evidence for that being the case with my son's generation at least.
and he opens his mouth
and just mumbles something in his stupid echuwechuwechuw voice

Freelancevagrant

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #77 on: June 10, 2021, 04:58:16 PM »
@camp chill yourself Where the down fall has been historically is that it comes down to cohesion and solidarity amongst the left. Essentially a United front during the civil war, then autonomy for the respective branches of the front. The problem being, at least from an anarchists prospective, is that statist/party backed division of the front become increasingly more powerful and power hungry, and eventually have the desire to destroy any adjacent forces that have been in place. But, you already knew this.

There’s no cut and dry solution to it because it’s a complex problem, the best solution that I can think of that has been applied with varying degrees of success is by arming the public and the creation of non hierarchical militias, like the black guard or the confederal militias. The militias need to be trained in unconventional warfare. The militias are the most effective when they blend in with the local population, and that local population is armed.

I apologize for the delay in response and potential lack of clarity. Work is kicking my ass with these 14 hour days.

Cough cough **organize*** cough cough

Tl/dr: through a mixture of leftist cohesion, armed and trained militias, and community defense.

@DaleSr fucking beautiful! Billy Bragg is the shit. I’ll contribute as well with some mothafucking T-Bone Slim as done by The Project (who I know literally nothing about).

https://youtu.be/QNSq0dBmWuY
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Lenny the Fatface

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #78 on: June 10, 2021, 05:53:23 PM »
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The most common left thing I’m not in support of is gun control. I agree with the sentiment (and gun culture is corny) but I need to see two things first: Drastic police reform, and a well articulated plan to crack down on the firearms black market; until then it’s a no for me dawg.
[close]


What are your thoughts on other countries implementing gun control after tragic shootings and seeing success? Granted, I don't believe those companies have anywhere near the same level of police corruption as we do, but I still think those numbers mean something. Either way I personally consider myself more of a police abolitionist than anything, but I would hope that addressing both issues in any way would coincide.

I think gun control CAN work, but under the right circumstances. America is laughably bad at shutting down black markets, our police suck, and we’re so used to vilifying others that people will just own hot firearms out of fear. I think it’s a good way of reducing suicides and mass shootings, it won’t do dick to reduce the majority of gun violence.





iKobrakai

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2021, 09:41:18 PM »
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A huge contingent of contemporary anarchists are pretty critical of the Left.

I am definitely from a Leftist background (was also a card-carrying member of the IWW at one point) but have to admit I have very little faith left in Leftism... Still share many beliefs with many Leftist friends and no I did not go right-wing... I am done with it all. Sounds like a cop out I know but my occupation, social worker, is really where I focus my 'activism.'

You can catch me hugging trees with John Zerzan... I jest... maybe...
[close]

I can respect that. I probably lean more towards your disposition as I age. While I think sudden and chaotic social upheaval would be the optimum path to actual change, I think the sad realities of the fact are that there are too many bigots, classist, white folks still kicking for any real change to be enacted or stick.
[close]

This is my concern with any revolution that might happen in the US.

IN pre-fascist Spain, there was enough education and a grassroots support prior to the revolution that a critical mass of the population was wiling to go for anarchist-syndicalism principles.

There is nothing like that in the States at large, maybe pockets in California, NYC, and Oregon.

But if the government were to disappear tomorrow, you’d have the majority of the country carved up into either militia-run areas or theocratic states fundamentalist enough to make the Taliban look reasonable.

There needs to be a lot more educational work and support for leftist politics before any revolution. I was hoping a Bernie presidency could have softened a core amount of people to the idea.
[close]
Same here, but as with leftism in this country, it was a pipe dream in hindsight. I hate to say it, but this isn’t something that’s going to be resolved in our lifetime. We just have fight a war of attrition. Make every gen more left than the last. I’ve thankfully seen a lot of evidence for that being the case with my son's generation at least.

This whole revolution shit the left is fucking obsessed about ain't gonna do shit. People who have no problem with executing other people to impose their will are gonna turn out super shitty. It blows my mind how people who are 20+ can even say shit like "hang land lords" and other trendy shit. Fucking cattle.

Yeah, it is not sexy to implement new slightly more progressive policies but this is the reality. Trust us, ex-commies, shit don't work.

life is a hell ride

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2021, 04:28:37 AM »
if you like landlords idk what to tell you besides ur cucked, even adam smith hated landlords..

i get what u mean tho- most people i’ve met who talked revolution never popped a balloon let alone hung nobody
with that being said. cky enthusiast you seem like the worst dude with a very low attention span, i mean you never have watched a skate video in its entirley, why dont you just shut the fuck up if you never have to say anyt

S.

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #81 on: June 11, 2021, 04:46:08 AM »
I feel that one demand that probably leftists and the center left agrees on, hell even most politicians SHOULD agree on is to get money out of politics. It would give politicians alot more independence and time to get shit done.

It might need violent upheaval, though for any meaningful reform to occur. US political parties more than in most countries I know simply represent different capital interests.






Easy Slider

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2021, 05:00:26 AM »
Looks like I qualify to post in this thread, but just by a hair.  ;D


Frank

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #83 on: June 11, 2021, 05:50:49 AM »
whassup




Sila

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #84 on: June 11, 2021, 06:20:01 AM »



This is me, apparently. First time i've done one of these tests. I'm not too well read and my political literacy is weak at best, but I have been involved in direct action in the past and spent time with a lot of groups that have a similar outlook on things. Wish I had something of substance to add. But i'm happy this thread exists.

Freelancevagrant

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #85 on: June 11, 2021, 06:45:41 AM »
I said why not and tried it too.

The results are shocking…

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Freelancevagrant

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #86 on: June 11, 2021, 06:48:41 AM »



This is me, apparently. First time i've done one of these tests. I'm not too well read and my political literacy is weak at best, but I have been involved in direct action in the past and spent time with a lot of groups that have a similar outlook on things. Wish I had something of substance to add. But i'm happy this thread exists.

@Sila I just had to say that your compass is fucking beautiful and god damn it were happy to have you
Unity cunt, touch one touch all
We’re in this together don’t be silly mate

S.

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #87 on: June 11, 2021, 06:54:39 AM »
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This is me, apparently. First time i've done one of these tests. I'm not too well read and my political literacy is weak at best, but I have been involved in direct action in the past and spent time with a lot of groups that have a similar outlook on things. Wish I had something of substance to add. But i'm happy this thread exists.
[close]

@Sila I just had to say that your compass is fucking beautiful and god damn it were happy to have you

I took the test and I scored "Emma Goldman". Stoked!


TheLurper

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #88 on: June 11, 2021, 07:06:37 AM »

Yeah, it is not sexy to implement new slightly more progressive policies but this is the reality. Trust us, ex-commies, shit don't work.

I think a good question to consider is, "What equals working?" What key variables define a working system?

When I lived in Moscow, the woman I lived with pined for the Soviet Union and was terrified for her adult son's future in Russia. And, she lambasted me for my shit education.

Obviously, Stalin starving people in Ukraine equals not working. Pinochet, Franco, Hitler, and others killing internal enemies equals not working. Not mention, all the death that occured in colonization and capitalist wars.
The States biggest economy in the world, China is number 2 (lead rival once again "communist"... population is a key aspect of their economy but India has a pop advantage as well and isn't doing as well as china in many variables).
Cuba, especially prior to the collapse of the USSR, works on some key variables (I.e.  healthcare, life expectancy = to the States's, and Olympic medals per capita).
The workers dorms and communal apartments of USSLatvia seem miserable, but my friend lives in a (former) communal apartment in Riga today and he has a better set up than a lot of service workers in the States who will never afford even their own apartment, let alone a house, and will forever live in miserable roommate situations.
Cuba and China have large prison populations, the States has a large prison population.
The USSR had an unequal medical system. The States medical system is insanely highly unequal.
Public transit in the States is terrible. The Soviet metro system was amazing (looking at you Moscow).
USSR invading Afghanistan and the USA invading Afghanistan were stupid ideas.
The USSR used to use America's racism and crime as key critiques of it's system.
America brags about its billionaires, i don't care at all. Rather see that money used to create a better life for many.
Killing workers trying to get basic rights/unionize represents a failing system.
Sabotaging democracy (soviet Russia, communist china, capitalist Russia, capitalist Azerbaijan, increasingly present day America and historical America in terms of women and minorities).

As I've gotten older, I've come to believe the northern Euro style socialism is probably the best practice...it just needs to add in Rawls's ideas on redistribution every so often and that is as good as it gets. But if we are going to evaluate what works and what doesn't, laying out the criteria we are using is important.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 07:20:19 AM by TheLurper »

Quote from: ChuckRamone
I love when people bring up world hunger. It makes everything meaningless.
"that guy is double parked."
"Who cares? there are people starving to death! besides, how does that affect you? does it lessen the joy of parking?

lemonchicken91

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Re: Where my leftists at?
« Reply #89 on: June 11, 2021, 07:23:11 AM »
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If by leftist you mean a non-union office worker who listens to Brooklyn-based podcasts then solidarity y'all.
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All i wanna be is el chapo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-EaMFALFVU