"Loose" trucks; Hard v. Soft Bushings?

[EvenStevieNicks]

Hey pals,

For the loose truck crowd;

What's the difference between my habit of flush kingpin nut with soft bushings vs. rattle-loose with harder bushings?

I know some heads go the rattling loose, maybe no washer or whatever, and hard bushings... What's the scoop there?

[The real veganshawn]

Hard bushings give more rebound so they're more stable even when loose

[Mbrimson88]

The slightly harder bushings that are not tightened down as much works well for me.

If the bushings don't fit in the trucks and the nut is almost falling off, cut the top bushing down, if you cannot get bushings with low tops.

Works so much better for kingpin clearance too.

[EvenStevieNicks]

The slightly harder bushings that are not tightened down as much works well for me.

If the bushings don't fit in the trucks and the nut is almost falling off, cut the top bushing down, if you cannot get bushings with low tops.

Works so much better for kingpin clearance too.

I'll buy a set of Bones hard and try removing the washer... I'm so curious about how it feels! I've always had my trucks basically factory tight my whole life. I started using the Bones medium a couple of years ago, and I like the surfy double conical feel.

I watch guys like Ronnie Sandoval with his rattly Aces and my mind is just blown at how smooth and surfy his style is!

[Mbrimson88]

Expand Quote

The slightly harder bushings that are not tightened down as much works well for me.

If the bushings don't fit in the trucks and the nut is almost falling off, cut the top bushing down, if you cannot get bushings with low tops.

Works so much better for kingpin clearance too.

[close]

I'll buy a set of Bones hard and try removing the washer... I'm so curious about how it feels! I've always had my trucks basically factory tight my whole life. I started using the Bones medium a couple of years ago, and I like the surfy double conical feel.

I watch guys like Ronnie Sandoval with his rattly Aces and my mind is just blown at how smooth and surfy his style is!

I know a lot of people who use the Bones hard with no metal washers at first, then when they squash some, you can always add the metal washers in at any time too, stock ones or the included ones.  As they come with the small black flat washer, you can put one on top, or even one underneath as well if you ended up with more than one set.

If they are too firm, you can always run a medium top and hard bottom or vice versa - people find that works too.

[Xen]

Wouldn’t recommend hard bottom soft top, unless you want zero rebound. Boo does it, med.bones bottom soft top. YMMV, but I wasn’t a fan after a few sessions…and getting how well ace bushings work I’d find it hard to convince myself they’ve got it backwards.

[johnes]

Well I’ve run soft bushings with no washer and it was so squirrelly like almost out of control. I prefer medium bushings with no washer with rattle.
I’ve also used hard bushings and I’ve mixed and matched hard top, soft bottom, but for me, medium just feels best.
I think you might feel more stable on hard with no washer compared to soft with washer.
But bushings are pretty cheap, why not just go ahead and give it a try and see how it feels fit yourself?
I use mini logo bushings.
I’ve also used bones medium and hard bushings without washers but I prefer the regular ML bushings.

[billy_pilgrimspecker]

Anyone finding that Bones black bushings are harder than white ones? I have two pairs of Bones Med and Bones Hard, one pair black and one pair white (stocked up after they were sold out everywhere), and the black ones are noticeably harder in both medium and hard sets. Could just be a fluke, curious if anyone else has noticed this.

[IpathCats]

Hard bushings loose trucks, that's the way I like to fu..... But seriously figuring this out really helped dial some of (not all) my madness down. I highly suggest this especially if you're in the 170+ lbs range and still line to ride loose trucks. Like others have stated, it gives you maneuverability and stability. I also HATE that mushy truck feeling with the same level of low-no resistance throughout the turn. When you have that point of higher resistance, it almost mimics the effects of having tighter trucks when it comes to flip tricks. Makes it easier to find that money spot to pop from.

Edit: in summary, get hard bushings if you're a decent size person and want to ride loose trucks. Tighten the nut to flush, and it they are still too tight for your liking, start sanding/cutting the top bushing down until you have your desired feel with a flush kingpin nut. Make sure it's the top bushing, so you don't change the geometry of your trucks.

[jimgrude]

I sometimes like medium-hard bushings, rattly loose with a flat top washer only. It gives a quick, responsive turn, but with enough resistance to help out with sketchy landings.

Recently I prefer soft bottom with decent rebound, and slightly harder top for even more response. I run flat washers on top and bottom to make them just flush. This setup gives a bit more stability on center, but still really surfy with gradual resistance.

Also, barrel bottom only. If I want more turn, I just go softer.

[billy_pilgrimspecker]

I just switched to stock barrel bottom on my Indy trucks, hard Bones top with no washer. Stock Indy bushings are squishy as hell at 170lbs. Real question though: do those stock bushings firm up or soften up over time? I've heard both claims on Slap, and I've always gone with Bones except on my Ace trucks. Bones hard were too hard for me until I started using Rip Tide pivot cups, and they make such a difference that I won't think about ever not using them even though they're fuckin $17 or some shit--I got em on all my setups. But yeah, the stock barrel bottom/hard Bones top isn't loose enough unless the bottom bushing softens up, but if it doesn't I got a pile of bushings to feed the madness.

[Mbrimson88]

Anyone finding that Bones black bushings are harder than white ones? I have two pairs of Bones Med and Bones Hard, one pair black and one pair white (stocked up after they were sold out everywhere), and the black ones are noticeably harder in both medium and hard sets. Could just be a fluke, curious if anyone else has noticed this.

In a few sets I had (all well used from other people) the all black bushings were so much softer than the white ones.

People had said that there were issues with some batches, even the possibility that the wrong colour tops were put on on, eg medium ended up with black tops when they should have been yellow, or just the fact that some of the urethane compounds of the bushings were not mixed well.

Any which way, there were definitely some significant differences in how much the bushings would squeeze with a pair of grips / pliers, which is how I can feel out bushings way more easily now.  I used to have to put them on a board and test them, but the pliers method works so well.

Edit: in summary, get hard bushings if you're a decent size person and want to ride loose trucks. Tighten the nut to flush, and it they are still too tight for your liking, start sanding/cutting the top bushing down until you have your desired feel with a flush kingpin nut. Make sure it's the top bushing, so you don't change the geometry of your trucks.

Yep, definitely agree with this.  Others used to do this long before I started experimenting, but I feel like I have it very well sorted nowdays, in being able to modify bushings to make them work well for whatever situation is required.

[Mbrimson88]

I just switched to stock barrel bottom on my Indy trucks, hard Bones top with no washer. Stock Indy bushings are squishy as hell at 170lbs. Real question though: do those stock bushings firm up or soften up over time? I've heard both claims on Slap, and I've always gone with Bones except on my Ace trucks. Bones hard were too hard for me until I started using Rip Tide pivot cups, and they make such a difference that I won't think about ever not using them even though they're fuckin $17 or some shit--I got em on all my setups. But yeah, the stock barrel bottom/hard Bones top isn't loose enough unless the bottom bushing softens up, but if it doesn't I got a pile of bushings to feed the madness.

Looking back over, I forgot to add info for this one, but it is easy enough in another post.

Re bushings wearing in, it is different for different brands or even for different bushings from the same brand.

Bones definitely get squashed and go a lot softer when worn in, hards go from almost rock solid when first put in, to compressed to about medium feel when almost dead, which is fine if that is what you want, but for a few people I know, they go through Bones hard bushings every month or two as they just compress and squash out.  Even to look at them, they are so different when "dead" compared to when new.

Indy aftermarket bushings get softer as they wear in, so might start off fairly solid feeling but then then have an easier flex and snap feeling when worn in, if that makes sense.

Indy stock bushings start off totally mushy with not much snap back but as they wear in, they tend to feel like they firm up a bit and definitely have a really good flex and snap back from about half a dozen sessions in until the end of their life, which for the new ones is still a long time as they are still good, as far as I am concerned.


The only other thing to note is when people crank them down too hard or don't treat them with care when new, they will tend to not work as well as they should or have a much shorter life.  Some of my boards have very old bushings in them that others have looked after and are still perfect, even if they look like they are well past it, but some other almost new ones have pretty much been left as "unusable" after being destroyed by people who didn't quite understand how bushings need to wear in.  That goes for other brands too, not just Indy, Bones, or Thunder, Ace, etc.

[LebowskisRug]

I’m surprised loose folks would describe stock Indy as mushy and squirrelly. For standard kingpin I never ever adjust them and they work great. For Mids I had to crank 2 full turns to get the same feel. I tried Bones Medium and they felt not as good, but not bad. I’ve debated trying the Indy Blue in my Mids and backing off a bit, but prob won’t.

[Mbrimson88]

I’m surprised loose folks would describe stock Indy as mushy and squirrelly. For standard kingpin I never ever adjust them and they work great. For Mids I had to crank 2 full turns to get the same feel. I tried Bones Medium and they felt not as good, but not bad. I’ve debated trying the Indy Blue in my Mids and backing off a bit, but prob won’t.

To me it is down to responsiveness of the bushings, along with getting a whole lot of used gear to test and pass on to others, so often well used bushings just feel so much better than brand new ones, especially the stock Indy bushings - which are in all my cruisers with the nut flush and are almost wobbly loose, compared to my usual boards, which are still wheelbite loose when pushed hard to either side, but very much more stable (on the 92 duro with low or cut down tops, same as the blue ones only way more kingpin clearance).

[Movies]

Expand Quote

Anyone finding that Bones black bushings are harder than white ones? I have two pairs of Bones Med and Bones Hard, one pair black and one pair white (stocked up after they were sold out everywhere), and the black ones are noticeably harder in both medium and hard sets. Could just be a fluke, curious if anyone else has noticed this.

[close]

In a few sets I had (all well used from other people) the all black bushings were so much softer than the white ones.

People had said that there were issues with some batches, even the possibility that the wrong colour tops were put on on, eg medium ended up with black tops when they should have been yellow, or just the fact that some of the urethane compounds of the bushings were not mixed well.

Any which way, there were definitely some significant differences in how much the bushings would squeeze with a pair of grips / pliers, which is how I can feel out bushings way more easily now.  I used to have to put them on a board and test them, but the pliers method works so well.

Expand Quote

Edit: in summary, get hard bushings if you're a decent size person and want to ride loose trucks. Tighten the nut to flush, and it they are still too tight for your liking, start sanding/cutting the top bushing down until you have your desired feel with a flush kingpin nut. Make sure it's the top bushing, so you don't change the geometry of your trucks.

[close]

Yep, definitely agree with this.  Others used to do this long before I started experimenting, but I feel like I have it very well sorted nowdays, in being able to modify bushings to make them work well for whatever situation is required.

Same issue here with the black hard bones... my sets have all been softer than the white hard ones. I actually was wondering the same, as if they mixed up the batches or something. The white hards never seem to get crushed/split in the same way as the black ones do and seem to last way longer for me. I thought I was crazy.

[Mean salto]

For a while I would ride low trucks, kingpin just flush with 4 white doh dohs top bushings. Weird times but I liked it.

[newguy]

bones medium for life. I ride mine until they turn into powder, when youre in that end of the line zone you really get into crazy shit.

[Murge]

Is there a bushing combo that gives stability and rebound but allows more pinch for crooks? I got some blue bushings 96a I think  in my Indy’s they feel great. I’m bigger dude 6’1 225ish. And to get pinch I keep loosening my trucks but then feel less stable on flip tricks. Where am I fucking up? There’s no perfect is there? Just tell me to get better.

[IpathCats]

Is there a bushing combo that gives stability and rebound but allows more pinch for crooks? I got some blue bushings 96a I think  in my Indy’s they feel great. I’m bigger dude 6’1 225ish. And to get pinch I keep loosening my trucks but then feel less stable on flip tricks. Where am I fucking up? There’s no perfect is there? Just tell me to get better.

conical bushings have more give by nature. Maybe try a harder conical bushing

[billy_pilgrimspecker]

Expand Quote

Is there a bushing combo that gives stability and rebound but allows more pinch for crooks? I got some blue bushings 96a I think  in my Indy’s they feel great. I’m bigger dude 6’1 225ish. And to get pinch I keep loosening my trucks but then feel less stable on flip tricks. Where am I fucking up? There’s no perfect is there? Just tell me to get better.

[close]

conical bushings have more give by nature. Maybe try a harder conical bushing

You can also try a softer pivot cup. I love Rip Tide, which is more of a longboarding brand I guess (and pricey), but I've seen Khiro offer different durometer pivot cups if anyone has em in stock. I've also used a pocketknife to make a pile of wax shavings and then pack them around all the contact points on my bushings and stock pivot cups--takes care of any squeaking and might make em a little smoother and turnier. Sometimes I have to remind myself to stop fucking with my setup and just skate, sure y'all can relate.

[fs1/2cab]

I can't believe I am saying that, but riptide pivot cups are really worth their money. I am running them in my 144s with 92a aftermarket indy bushings and it is damn near perfect. Although not fully broken in yet.

[billy_pilgrimspecker]

I can't believe I am saying that, but riptide pivot cups are really worth their money. I am running them in my 144s with 92a aftermarket indy bushings and it is damn near perfect. Although not fully broken in yet.

That's what I have in my 149 Indy hollows (92a conical indy bushings w/riptide cups) and there's no making them better. Sidenote: my hollows are forged and my standards are cast, but the hollows have a shorter wheelbase on the exact same deck (I'd guess 1/16" shorter). I read that the standards are supposed to have the shorter wheelbase, so I'm wondering if the Indy conical bottom bushings are shorter, because the standards are the same with stock or Bones bottom bushings. I would change the bushings in my hollows to compare, but I might not adjust the kingpin nut for the rest of the trucks' lives since they're dialed in.

[kenjiro]

Well looks like all this bushing talk got me to try some of the new ace hard bushings.

[Maccat]

Soft and loose is too much squish for me. When I started riding looser trucks immediately I thought weight had more to do with what bushing duro to go with.

I run 159 Mindys with Bones hard bushings, top washer. They’re awesome. Rebound is real. Doesn’t feel like bushings that are frozen.