Author Topic: Place Magazine: What's going on in Ukraine (Ukrainian & Russian skaters comment  (Read 9187 times)

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OldSkater

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Damn, Krugman fucking killed it in his op-ed on how to punish Russia for this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/opinion/russia-ukraine-sanctions-offshore-accounts.html

The short version of this go after all the oligarchs' laundered money in the West, but this would require the West examining its own addiction to easy money from Russian kleptocrats

Krugman is a moron and always has been

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/why-was-paul-krugman-so-wrong/

mtvic

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I'll save you the headache of having to listen to skaters with no geopolitical education talk about the most significant military event Europe in the last 40 years. Just listen to the Economist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aLdwI9s0wc
[close]

instead of getting actual opinions from people who live there

or even seeking out journalistic accounts fro both sides

instead  you should trust a neoliberal western rag who is almost certain to echo the US/NATO line completely. hmmm
What precisely do you see as the US/Nato line?  It seems that they haven't been in lockstep with how to respond to this situation to me, but I could be missing something.  BTW, I completely agree with you that the economist is not the trusted source for this situation, or maybe I should say the only source. 

wane brady

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which head of state has a better back smith

ungzilla

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probably putin due to knowing karate or whatever

newguy

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I always know that threads like this are going to attract dumbass comments, but I am always shocked by the specific contours of idiocy that emerge. This is why I keep coming back to Slap.

If you want some truly rare nutcases and idiotic ideas, just read Opinion pieces in the NYT written by US state department officials

Mr. Kamikazi

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I'll save you the headache of having to listen to skaters with no geopolitical education talk about the most significant military event Europe in the last 40 years. Just listen to the Economist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aLdwI9s0wc

I back this. More often than not social media & an extremely anecdotal experience drives what is then believed to be fact. These sources often do this. 

newguy

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It's crazy how we all feel like we know what's going on, at least to some degree. I find it funny how we choose when to trust/distrust the media. I would wager that the general public (and even more informed folks) probably have no idea what the real reasons for these large scale conflicts are. History shows that the context in which these events begin is usually just BS, and the truth gets uncovered years later. I'm trying to see someone grind a tank gun though, I know that much. FS or BS smith with a solid pop out would be ideal. Just need to build the right ramp for the side of a tank.

War happened cos NATO, an obsolete organization founded by nazis and rabid anti communists, kept pushing russia towards the red line Putin clearly and firmly drew for like the past 20 years. As an added bonus, if the US gets their way, and they will because the EU are liberal pansies whose sole purpose is for "muh free market", they get to sell their expensive gas at a premium to europeans. So basically, another wrestle between two imperialist forces, and the working class stuck in the middle or suffering from the resulting price hikes; literally every fucking guy involved in this conflict is rotten to the core and civilians will pay the price.

somefucker

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which head of state has a better back smith

My Grandfather smoked his whole life. I was about 10 years old when my mother said to him, 'If you ever want to see your grandchildren graduate, you have to stop immediately.'. Tears welled up in his eyes when he realized what exactly was at stake. He gave it up immediately. Three years later he died of lung cancer. It was really sad and destroyed me. My mother said to me- 'Don't ever smoke. Please don't put your family through what your Grandfather put us through." I agreed. At 28, I have never touched a cigarette. I must say, I feel a very slight sense of regret for never having done it, because your post gave me cancer anyway.
oh my god i’m not fucking racist i’m not homophobic i’m not transphobic

versacekid420

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Who look like that & wana ask what's the commotion

TheLurper

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Damn, Krugman fucking killed it in his op-ed on how to punish Russia for this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/opinion/russia-ukraine-sanctions-offshore-accounts.html

The short version of this go after all the oligarchs' laundered money in the West, but this would require the West examining its own addiction to easy money from Russian kleptocrats
[close]

Krugman is a moron and always has been

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/why-was-paul-krugman-so-wrong/

So, you disagree with the notion of punishing the elite Russian kleptocrats? You disagree with the notion of sanctioning them via stopping their ability to launder money in the West?


And, you believe this because of an article from 9 years ago that starts with an attack on Krugman for an issue he openly admits he got wrong, has recanted, and no longer argues. Hmm, alright. Good reasoning. 

I'm convinced that Kurgman's ideas on how to punish Putin is wrong. ::)

Quote from: ChuckRamone
I love when people bring up world hunger. It makes everything meaningless.
"That guy is double parked."
"Who cares? There are people starving to death! Besides, how does that affect you? Does it lessen the joy of parking?

Jonny7.5Alive

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It's crazy how we all feel like we know what's going on, at least to some degree. I find it funny how we choose when to trust/distrust the media. I would wager that the general public (and even more informed folks) probably have no idea what the real reasons for these large scale conflicts are. History shows that the context in which these events begin is usually just BS, and the truth gets uncovered years later. I'm trying to see someone grind a tank gun though, I know that much. FS or BS smith with a solid pop out would be ideal. Just need to build the right ramp for the side of a tank.
[close]

War happened cos NATO, an obsolete organization founded by nazis and rabid anti communists, kept pushing russia towards the red line Putin clearly and firmly drew for like the past 20 years. As an added bonus, if the US gets their way, and they will because the EU are liberal pansies whose sole purpose is for "muh free market", they get to sell their expensive gas at a premium to europeans. So basically, another wrestle between two imperialist forces, and the working class stuck in the middle or suffering from the resulting price hikes; literally every fucking guy involved in this conflict is rotten to the core and civilians will pay the price.

You can't seriously believe that  ;D

You're American I presume?

skunty

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It's crazy how we all feel like we know what's going on, at least to some degree. I find it funny how we choose when to trust/distrust the media. I would wager that the general public (and even more informed folks) probably have no idea what the real reasons for these large scale conflicts are. History shows that the context in which these events begin is usually just BS, and the truth gets uncovered years later. I'm trying to see someone grind a tank gun though, I know that much. FS or BS smith with a solid pop out would be ideal. Just need to build the right ramp for the side of a tank.
[close]

War happened cos NATO, an obsolete organization founded by nazis and rabid anti communists, kept pushing russia towards the red line Putin clearly and firmly drew for like the past 20 years. As an added bonus, if the US gets their way, and they will because the EU are liberal pansies whose sole purpose is for "muh free market", they get to sell their expensive gas at a premium to europeans. So basically, another wrestle between two imperialist forces, and the working class stuck in the middle or suffering from the resulting price hikes; literally every fucking guy involved in this conflict is rotten to the core and civilians will pay the price.
[close]

You can't seriously believe that  ;D

You're American I presume?

Causes come before effects, so put the events on a timeline if you want to know the cause. What happened first, NATO attempts to expand, or Russian military action in Ukraine (or even Georgia for that matter)?

newguy

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It's crazy how we all feel like we know what's going on, at least to some degree. I find it funny how we choose when to trust/distrust the media. I would wager that the general public (and even more informed folks) probably have no idea what the real reasons for these large scale conflicts are. History shows that the context in which these events begin is usually just BS, and the truth gets uncovered years later. I'm trying to see someone grind a tank gun though, I know that much. FS or BS smith with a solid pop out would be ideal. Just need to build the right ramp for the side of a tank.
[close]

War happened cos NATO, an obsolete organization founded by nazis and rabid anti communists, kept pushing russia towards the red line Putin clearly and firmly drew for like the past 20 years. As an added bonus, if the US gets their way, and they will because the EU are liberal pansies whose sole purpose is for "muh free market", they get to sell their expensive gas at a premium to europeans. So basically, another wrestle between two imperialist forces, and the working class stuck in the middle or suffering from the resulting price hikes; literally every fucking guy involved in this conflict is rotten to the core and civilians will pay the price.
[close]

You can't seriously believe that  ;D

You're American I presume?

It's not that i believe in it, it literally is factual you insufferable prick. How about engaging with what I said instead of going "lol u r so dumb and silly u must be american XDDD"

HeavyAndExpensive

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Russia wants a warm water port. If they are allied with Turkey, taking Ukraine would theoretically allow them access to the Mediterranean etc…

newguy

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It's crazy how we all feel like we know what's going on, at least to some degree. I find it funny how we choose when to trust/distrust the media. I would wager that the general public (and even more informed folks) probably have no idea what the real reasons for these large scale conflicts are. History shows that the context in which these events begin is usually just BS, and the truth gets uncovered years later. I'm trying to see someone grind a tank gun though, I know that much. FS or BS smith with a solid pop out would be ideal. Just need to build the right ramp for the side of a tank.
[close]

War happened cos NATO, an obsolete organization founded by nazis and rabid anti communists, kept pushing russia towards the red line Putin clearly and firmly drew for like the past 20 years. As an added bonus, if the US gets their way, and they will because the EU are liberal pansies whose sole purpose is for "muh free market", they get to sell their expensive gas at a premium to europeans. So basically, another wrestle between two imperialist forces, and the working class stuck in the middle or suffering from the resulting price hikes; literally every fucking guy involved in this conflict is rotten to the core and civilians will pay the price.
[close]

You can't seriously believe that  ;D

You're American I presume?
[close]

Causes come before effects, so put the events on a timeline if you want to know the cause. What happened first, NATO attempts to expand, or Russian military action in Ukraine (or even Georgia for that matter)?

Lol, it seems most people forming an opinion on the matter think that the past has no effect on present events, and that causality is a made up word.

newguy

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Russia wants a warm water port. If they are allied with Turkey, taking Ukraine would theoretically allow them access to the Mediterranean etc…

Shoot, I forgot to point that out too. Bumping for visibility

HeavyAndExpensive

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It's crazy how we all feel like we know what's going on, at least to some degree. I find it funny how we choose when to trust/distrust the media. I would wager that the general public (and even more informed folks) probably have no idea what the real reasons for these large scale conflicts are. History shows that the context in which these events begin is usually just BS, and the truth gets uncovered years later. I'm trying to see someone grind a tank gun though, I know that much. FS or BS smith with a solid pop out would be ideal. Just need to build the right ramp for the side of a tank.
[close]

War happened cos NATO, an obsolete organization founded by nazis and rabid anti communists, kept pushing russia towards the red line Putin clearly and firmly drew for like the past 20 years. As an added bonus, if the US gets their way, and they will because the EU are liberal pansies whose sole purpose is for "muh free market", they get to sell their expensive gas at a premium to europeans. So basically, another wrestle between two imperialist forces, and the working class stuck in the middle or suffering from the resulting price hikes; literally every fucking guy involved in this conflict is rotten to the core and civilians will pay the price.

I get that the west isn’t perfect, but you’re getting very “but both sides” and implying the west and the country that literally decided to do this as the same when… only Russia decided to invade. Very sus

skunty

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Russia wants a warm water port. If they are allied with Turkey, taking Ukraine would theoretically allow them access to the Mediterranean etc…

Putin and the oligarchs just want to keep the power and wealth, not to expand it. They would expand if they could, but they know they can't. It's the west that's trying to expand. The west wants to topple their regime so that they can get the profits the oligarchs are enjoying now off of Russian resources, and sell it as spreading democracy and freedom and transparency and make you think you're in favor of a dictator if you oppose neoimperialism. Russian oligarchs suck ass, but they're if you try to topple them of course they're going to start a war for it. So is it worth fighting a war for? Because they have nukes and nothing to lose. 

HeavyAndExpensive

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Russia wants a warm water port. If they are allied with Turkey, taking Ukraine would theoretically allow them access to the Mediterranean etc…
[close]

Putin and the oligarchs just want to keep the power and wealth, not to expand it. They would expand if they could, but they know they can't. It's the west that's trying to expand. The west wants to topple their regime so that they can get the profits the oligarchs are enjoying now off of Russian resources, and sell it as spreading democracy and freedom and transparency and make you think you're in favor of a dictator if you oppose neoimperialism. Russian oligarchs suck ass, but they're if you try to topple them of course they're going to start a war for it. So is it worth fighting a war for? Because they have nukes and nothing to lose.

Gotcha Sergei.

Also - you know what helps keeping power and wealth? Obtaining more of it - I.E. invading an adjacent country that’s very valuable geopolitically.

newguy

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It's crazy how we all feel like we know what's going on, at least to some degree. I find it funny how we choose when to trust/distrust the media. I would wager that the general public (and even more informed folks) probably have no idea what the real reasons for these large scale conflicts are. History shows that the context in which these events begin is usually just BS, and the truth gets uncovered years later. I'm trying to see someone grind a tank gun though, I know that much. FS or BS smith with a solid pop out would be ideal. Just need to build the right ramp for the side of a tank.
[close]

War happened cos NATO, an obsolete organization founded by nazis and rabid anti communists, kept pushing russia towards the red line Putin clearly and firmly drew for like the past 20 years. As an added bonus, if the US gets their way, and they will because the EU are liberal pansies whose sole purpose is for "muh free market", they get to sell their expensive gas at a premium to europeans. So basically, another wrestle between two imperialist forces, and the working class stuck in the middle or suffering from the resulting price hikes; literally every fucking guy involved in this conflict is rotten to the core and civilians will pay the price.
[close]

I get that the west isn’t perfect, but your getting very “but both sides” and implying the west and the country that literally decided to do this as the same when… only Russia decided to invade. Very sus

I'm just putting context where it needs to be though, fact is, this conflict was literally provoqued by the US ever since Clinton approved Putin to succeed Yeltsin in 93 https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-s-a-solid-man-declassified-memos-offer-window-into-yeltsin-clinton-relationship/29462317.html
Not to mention they also funded and supported the far right coup of 2014, and put a literal comedian in charge (foreshadowing  ::)). I'm not supporting Russia or Putin, you can check my post history I made this very clear every time I wrote about the war in relevant threads, I'm just sick of people comparing Putin to Hitler or begging the US to get involved or clowns comparing an actual war where civilians are getting killed in a wrestling match between two right wing nationalist regimes to a Marvel capeshit movie. Call me an asshole but Putin has been saying the same thing for the past 15 years, don't cross my line or I will reply accordingly, the reality is the US benefits from Russia invading, and did everything to push Putin into action. So yes, both sides are equally terrible and cynical.

HeavyAndExpensive

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It's crazy how we all feel like we know what's going on, at least to some degree. I find it funny how we choose when to trust/distrust the media. I would wager that the general public (and even more informed folks) probably have no idea what the real reasons for these large scale conflicts are. History shows that the context in which these events begin is usually just BS, and the truth gets uncovered years later. I'm trying to see someone grind a tank gun though, I know that much. FS or BS smith with a solid pop out would be ideal. Just need to build the right ramp for the side of a tank.
[close]

War happened cos NATO, an obsolete organization founded by nazis and rabid anti communists, kept pushing russia towards the red line Putin clearly and firmly drew for like the past 20 years. As an added bonus, if the US gets their way, and they will because the EU are liberal pansies whose sole purpose is for "muh free market", they get to sell their expensive gas at a premium to europeans. So basically, another wrestle between two imperialist forces, and the working class stuck in the middle or suffering from the resulting price hikes; literally every fucking guy involved in this conflict is rotten to the core and civilians will pay the price.
[close]

I get that the west isn’t perfect, but your getting very “but both sides” and implying the west and the country that literally decided to do this as the same when… only Russia decided to invade. Very sus
[close]

I'm just putting context where it needs to be though, fact is, this conflict was literally provoqued by the US ever since Clinton approved Putin to succeed Yeltsin in 93 https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-s-a-solid-man-declassified-memos-offer-window-into-yeltsin-clinton-relationship/29462317.html]https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-s-a-solid-man-declassified-memos-offer-window-into-yeltsin-clinton-relationship/29462317.html
Not to mention they also funded and supported the far right coup of 2014, and put a literal comedian in charge (foreshadowing  ::)). I'm not supporting Russia or Putin, you can check my post history I made this very clear every time I wrote about the war in relevant threads, I'm just sick of people comparing Putin to Hitler or begging the US to get involved or clowns comparing an actual war where civilians are getting killed in a wrestling match between two right wing nationalist regimes to a Marvel capeshit movie. Call me an asshole but Putin has been saying the same thing for the past 15 years, don't cross my line or I will reply accordingly, the reality is the US benefits from Russia invading, and did everything to push Putin into action. So yes, both sides are equally terrible and cynical.

I truly don’t even know how to respond to this. You’re advocating the “you made me do this to you” abuser logic.

Also, can you tell me what line the US has a crossed recently that justifies Russia invading UKRAINE for perceived US offenses?

skunty

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Russia wants a warm water port. If they are allied with Turkey, taking Ukraine would theoretically allow them access to the Mediterranean etc…
[close]

Putin and the oligarchs just want to keep the power and wealth, not to expand it. They would expand if they could, but they know they can't. It's the west that's trying to expand. The west wants to topple their regime so that they can get the profits the oligarchs are enjoying now off of Russian resources, and sell it as spreading democracy and freedom and transparency and make you think you're in favor of a dictator if you oppose neoimperialism. Russian oligarchs suck ass, but they're if you try to topple them of course they're going to start a war for it. So is it worth fighting a war for? Because they have nukes and nothing to lose.
[close]

Gotcha Sergei.

Also - you know what helps keeping power and wealth? Obtaining more of it - I.E. invading an adjacent country that’s very valuable geopolitically.

Yeah Russia is invading Ukraine to support the separatists to so that Ukraine can't join NATO, try to keep up bud

skunty

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Also, can you tell me what line the US has a crossed recently that justifies Russia invading UKRAINE for perceived US offenses?
[close]

NATO expansion, duh
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HeavyAndExpensive

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Russia wants a warm water port. If they are allied with Turkey, taking Ukraine would theoretically allow them access to the Mediterranean etc…
[close]

Putin and the oligarchs just want to keep the power and wealth, not to expand it. They would expand if they could, but they know they can't. It's the west that's trying to expand. The west wants to topple their regime so that they can get the profits the oligarchs are enjoying now off of Russian resources, and sell it as spreading democracy and freedom and transparency and make you think you're in favor of a dictator if you oppose neoimperialism. Russian oligarchs suck ass, but they're if you try to topple them of course they're going to start a war for it. So is it worth fighting a war for? Because they have nukes and nothing to lose.
[close]

Gotcha Sergei.

Also - you know what helps keeping power and wealth? Obtaining more of it - I.E. invading an adjacent country that’s very valuable geopolitically.
[close]

Yeah Russia is invading Ukraine to support the separatists to so that Ukraine can't join NATO, try to keep up bud

How’s the weather in Moscow?

newguy

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Russia wants a warm water port. If they are allied with Turkey, taking Ukraine would theoretically allow them access to the Mediterranean etc…
[close]

Putin and the oligarchs just want to keep the power and wealth, not to expand it. They would expand if they could, but they know they can't. It's the west that's trying to expand. The west wants to topple their regime so that they can get the profits the oligarchs are enjoying now off of Russian resources, and sell it as spreading democracy and freedom and transparency and make you think you're in favor of a dictator if you oppose neoimperialism. Russian oligarchs suck ass, but they're if you try to topple them of course they're going to start a war for it. So is it worth fighting a war for? Because they have nukes and nothing to lose.
[close]

Gotcha Sergei.

Also - you know what helps keeping power and wealth? Obtaining more of it - I.E. invading an adjacent country that’s very valuable geopolitically.

Remind me again how many countries the US illegally invaded in the past 45 years? By the way, both of you are correct, neolibs would love to topple Putin and piece appart the russian economy, obviously they werent satisfied when yeltsin did it in 91, and Russia is at the moment an imperialist power seeking to maintain its sphere of influence, we're just witnessing the return of feuds between imperial powers, and it sucks for literally everyone except the rich

HeavyAndExpensive

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Also, can you tell me what line the US has a crossed recently that justifies Russia invading UKRAINE for perceived US offenses?
[close]

NATO expansion, duh
[close]

Oh OK better not expand NATO cause asshole dictator doesn’t like it  cause it threatens his asshole power! I always found the best way to fight and combat dictatorships is to do everything they want so you don’t hurt their feelings and it usually ends up well.
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HeavyAndExpensive

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Also - the US unjustly invading countries in the past doesn’t magically absolve every other country for shitty behavior. I guess two wrong suddenly make a right.

newguy

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It's crazy how we all feel like we know what's going on, at least to some degree. I find it funny how we choose when to trust/distrust the media. I would wager that the general public (and even more informed folks) probably have no idea what the real reasons for these large scale conflicts are. History shows that the context in which these events begin is usually just BS, and the truth gets uncovered years later. I'm trying to see someone grind a tank gun though, I know that much. FS or BS smith with a solid pop out would be ideal. Just need to build the right ramp for the side of a tank.
[close]

War happened cos NATO, an obsolete organization founded by nazis and rabid anti communists, kept pushing russia towards the red line Putin clearly and firmly drew for like the past 20 years. As an added bonus, if the US gets their way, and they will because the EU are liberal pansies whose sole purpose is for "muh free market", they get to sell their expensive gas at a premium to europeans. So basically, another wrestle between two imperialist forces, and the working class stuck in the middle or suffering from the resulting price hikes; literally every fucking guy involved in this conflict is rotten to the core and civilians will pay the price.
[close]

I get that the west isn’t perfect, but your getting very “but both sides” and implying the west and the country that literally decided to do this as the same when… only Russia decided to invade. Very sus
[close]

I'm just putting context where it needs to be though, fact is, this conflict was literally provoqued by the US ever since Clinton approved Putin to succeed Yeltsin in 93 https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-s-a-solid-man-declassified-memos-offer-window-into-yeltsin-clinton-relationship/29462317.html]https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-s-a-solid-man-declassified-memos-offer-window-into-yeltsin-clinton-relationship/29462317.html
Not to mention they also funded and supported the far right coup of 2014, and put a literal comedian in charge (foreshadowing  ::)). I'm not supporting Russia or Putin, you can check my post history I made this very clear every time I wrote about the war in relevant threads, I'm just sick of people comparing Putin to Hitler or begging the US to get involved or clowns comparing an actual war where civilians are getting killed in a wrestling match between two right wing nationalist regimes to a Marvel capeshit movie. Call me an asshole but Putin has been saying the same thing for the past 15 years, don't cross my line or I will reply accordingly, the reality is the US benefits from Russia invading, and did everything to push Putin into action. So yes, both sides are equally terrible and cynical.
[close]

I truly don’t even know how to respond to this. You’re advocating the “you made me do this to you” abuser logic.

Also, can you tell me what line the US has a crossed recently that justifies Russia invading UKRAINE for perceived US offenses?

Maybe you don't know how to respond because what I wrote is fact. it's amazing that in a single week criticizing NATO strategy became tantamous to treason and siding with putin...

The fact you're asking me why Russia invaded Ukraine is also weird, I assume you're trying to tie me in a knot or something, the fact the US actively sponsored a far right coup in 2014 is already bad enough but I don't see how the US egging ukraine to join NATO, a military organization geared to fight russia, is not seen as crossing the line.

I mean I'm really tempted to go full dialectical materialist mode here to explain my points because I think we both agree in general but have different ideas on why and how this conflict started

newguy

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Also - the US unjustly invading countries in the past doesn’t magically absolve every other country for shitty behavior. I guess two wrong suddenly make a right.

You're just arguing on bad faith now come on. I never ever said in my posts that Russia was right to invade, they're disguising an invasion as humanitarian aid to donbass, I'm not some useful idiot who goes "US bad and Russia good because they go against US". Besides, the fucking guy who launched this invasion was PUT IN PLACE BY THE US THEMSELVES like come on are you actually reading my posts??

skunty

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I truly don’t even know how to respond to this. You’re advocating the “you made me do this to you” abuser logic.


Meanwhile the US is gaslighting Russia by trying to expand NATO into Ukraine and say no we're not hostile you're just crazy