Author Topic: Shape stealing  (Read 2446 times)

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flintstagram

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Shape stealing
« on: February 25, 2022, 08:05:45 AM »
Iíve always wondered, in an industry where companies borrow lots of ideas from other companies, if a board brand discontinues a shape, is another board company allowed to pick it up and/or get the mold?

For example, if Baker/Deathwish abandons a shape, can another company that also uses BBS to manufacture their boards scoop up that particular mold? Is there a process involved in negotiating that? Is it fair game, or considered a dick move?

Noble Experiment

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2022, 08:29:19 AM »
The shape that Provost uses for his boards on Creature is just a rip off of the Baker 8.475 shape, except with just a few millimeters shaved off or added here n there. The shape of the nose and tail, wheelbase, and the concave pretty much matches the Baker 8.475 shape to a T.

Also, I know Theotisí shape for Baker is just a rip off of a Krooked shape, heís stated this in interviews before.

Mean salto

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2022, 08:31:30 AM »
Isn't there a guy Mariano shape that every company made a version of for years

FrozenIndustries

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2022, 08:57:26 AM »
Isn't there a guy Mariano shape that every company made a version of for years

Yeah, his 7.5" Girl shape, originally PS-pressed. Louie Barletta uses it for his personal Enjoi boards.

The Anti-Hero huffer shape is another one. Girl has their woodshop press them as the Phawt shape, but I've seen at least one other small brand do BBS-pressed huffers.

The big-nosed square shape that FA/Hockey, Quasi, etc. use is an AWS shape. I think the first time I ever saw one was maybe 2008/9-ish and it was an early Dylan pro board.

Ok

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2022, 09:39:20 AM »
I wish there was a version of those old girl shapes, readily available (guy, sheffey being my favorites).
Also with some slightly scaled up versions were in play.

I wouldnít rush to ride a creature board, but bakers b16 is harder to find, and to me that was their best shape. I am vaguely aware that times and tastes change.

Anyone have an opinion on the phawt vs huffer? Had the huffer several times, and itís sick. Havenít tried it with ace 55 classics, which are now the only appropriate sized trucks I have.

Interesting topic thanks for starting and contributing


flintstagram

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2022, 10:26:00 AM »
I wish there was a version of those old girl shapes, readily available (guy, sheffey being my favorites).
Also with some slightly scaled up versions were in play.

I wouldnít rush to ride a creature board, but bakers b16 is harder to find, and to me that was their best shape. I am vaguely aware that times and tastes change.

Anyone have an opinion on the phawt vs huffer? Had the huffer several times, and itís sick. Havenít tried it with ace 55 classics, which are now the only appropriate sized trucks I have.

Interesting topic thanks for starting and contributing

I think that maybe Kelly Hart based his visit shape off of the old girl boards, but I could be remembering that wrong.

I really want to see someone make Jamie Flyís old shape again (not the twin tail). Iíve got a pile of them currently, but one of these days Iím going to run out, and itís going to be sad. In the meantime Iím still looking for a suitable replacement while running through whatís Iíve got. I just picked up a Creature stump to try out. I think itís the closest Iíve found so far.

Maybe I need to start campaigning to every company that uses bbs to get someone to start using the Foy85 shape.

Glad I brought it up, because Iíve been sitting on this topic for awhile. Thanks everybody. Letís keep it going!

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2022, 10:39:14 AM »
Whatís the foy85? He had a wide short one that I wanted to try and never saw.

flintstagram

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2022, 11:05:53 AM »
Whatís the foy85? He had a wide short one that I wanted to try and never saw.

Itís 8.5x31.75, 14.25 wb, itís my favorite. Iíve purchased a lot of them, 33 to be exact.

If you can find the Deathwish paisley script deck, itís that size. Where are you located? There are a few shops that still shows them online, some in the U.S., some outside.

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2022, 11:37:34 AM »
33!
So so so sick.
I am so envious of this level of consistency. I am heading out the door to go skate, Iím taking at least 2 setups. One is a 7.75 with small wheels and small low trucks, the other is over 9, big trucks, big wheels. I was just lusting over some shaped boards that are so whimsical, I can only imagine they make skating more difficult. And skating is already so difficult for me.
Hearing someone ride the same stuff, seems so rad. I could, in theory, do the same. But Iím apparently opposed on cellular level to just chilling out and doing it.

flintstagram

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2022, 12:43:23 PM »
Right on. I think itís rad that you can jump to different setups and not be bothered by it. Iím worried Iím a bit too stuck in my ways, and itís going to come back to bite me eventually.

TastyBurrito

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2022, 01:47:42 PM »
I think Axel Crusher used to ride a Heroin egg board and just covered them in Toy stickers before Toy literally just recreated the shape for him.

FrozenIndustries

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2022, 02:01:15 PM »
I think Axel Crusher used to ride a Heroin egg board and just covered them in Toy stickers before Toy literally just recreated the shape for him.

Yeah, I have a Axel on ice and I'm 90% sure its the same shape. It is even on BBS wood which is an anomaly for Toy Machine.

Primitive also uses the shape for Franky's board.

theloniousmonk

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2022, 06:26:16 PM »
Chico has a barnyard up for sale now

When Shane OíNeil started April, he took the primitive 8.25 shape with him. At least something very similar. Now the primitive 8.25 has changed (6.5 tail) and the April still has the long one

I feel like the business and co shapes were probably really good

10 years ago someone on here said one of the welcome boards was the same shape as the Jason Lee American icons. The welcome was ps stix though, so even though technically the shape could be the same, but the mold would make it feel different.

Jason adams punk point has been on a few shapes I think.

Didnít nyjah take his shape from element for disorder?



Woodshop

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2022, 06:50:26 PM »
Right on. I think itís rad that you can jump to different setups and not be bothered by it. Iím worried Iím a bit too stuck in my ways, and itís going to come back to bite me eventually.


There are the two opposites with this, but on the one hand I like to have something weird and new to test out on a semi regular basis, but I will always go back to my current tried and tested shape and buy as many of them as I can (within reason) as long as that shape is still currently being made - BBS 8.38 or 8.5 with 14.5 wb boards.

If it stopped, I do know I have a couple of slightly different shapes as backups so I would not be left without my usual comfortable ride.  That said, I don't know exactly how many boards I currently have of the current specific shape I like, but there are a few boxes.

When I rode the black eagle in 8.12 I still had over ten of them new in shrink when I finally thought I should move up to 8.38 or 8.5 permanently, but there are people I know who like them, so I am slowly passing them on as needed.



As to shapes and specific measurements, everything in skateboarding seems to be a lot more fluid, in that anyone and everyone can pretty much copy anything that someone else has and do it themselves, with minimal or no accountability.

As already stated, quite a few riders of one brand / team take a liking to another brand's board shape, so their own brand more often than not will get one of those boards, copy it to be produced by their own woodshop or even use the same woodshop it comes from and do their own board on said shape.

I would think that it would depend on who had the presses and the shape details, but even that has changed from having a solid wood shape to use as a guide, to now having everything completely digital / computer controlled.

Even some shaped boards for certain brands can be left undrilled or the wheelbase changed for another brand, but I think for the specific brands like Welcome or Polar, their shapes are very much their own so PS Stix and now BBS would not have free license to use those shapes for another brand unless there was some agreement between them.

Another woodshop straight up copying a shape from someone else would leave little to no recourse, unless something had been trademarked, or copywrite or patent filed, but I have never heard of this happening.  That is not to say that someone has not or would not try to claim something, but I just don't think it is worth the trouble.


TastyBurrito

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2022, 06:32:14 AM »
Didnít nyjah take his shape from element for disorder?

I donít think so. Iím pretty sure he raped a drunk girl.

Freelancevagrant

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2022, 06:59:23 AM »
Expand Quote
I think Axel Crusher used to ride a Heroin egg board and just covered them in Toy stickers before Toy literally just recreated the shape for him.
[close]

Yeah, I have a Axel on ice and I'm 90% sure its the same shape. It is even on BBS wood which is an anomaly for Toy Machine.

Primitive also uses the shape for Franky's board.

Yeah Iím almost positive that Axel is on heroin shaped toy board.

Just like the huffer and the Phawt.

I also have a theory that Black Label used the huffer as a template to create the Reuter egg. It is the same shape just shaved of 0.18 of width and reduced a little over a quarter inch of wheelbase.   
He has the exact same look as my stepbrother, who I DO NOT respect.

mattchew

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2022, 07:37:54 AM »
Fascinating thread. Always wondered if there was exclusive rights/trademarking/IP to certain shapes etc. and/or if itís the wood shop that owns the shape. Itís especially wild to leave one company and just start your own with the exact same shapeódefinitely canít do that in most other industries lol
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kneebone

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2022, 08:13:13 AM »
Fascinating thread. Always wondered if there was exclusive rights/trademarking/IP to certain shapes etc. and/or if itís the wood shop that owns the shape. Itís especially wild to leave one company and just start your own with the exact same shapeódefinitely canít do that in most other industries lol
I remember an interview with one of the guys that started Welcome, and he talked about how he had to pay PS Stix to create new/proprietary shapes and that they were exclusive to Welcome.  Obviously the Welcome shapes are much more unique than some of the more subtle popsicle differences we're talking about here. but it was def a thing he talked about ("owning" the shapes)

LebowskisRug

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2022, 01:07:25 PM »
Isnít the Foy shape just the Anti Hero blue eagle?

flintstagram

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2022, 03:32:36 PM »
Isnít the Foy shape just the Anti Hero blue eagle?

Oh shit! I donít know! Iím going to have to look into that for sure! I know deluxe has a shape thatís similar, but didnít think they had the same shape.

Paco Supreme

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2022, 03:35:59 PM »
How about across brands under one distro?

I couldíve sworn an almost 8.5 is not the same as an enjoi but reading specs on pretty accurate sites makes me think otherwise now

LebowskisRug

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2022, 03:48:22 PM »
Expand Quote
Isnít the Foy shape just the Anti Hero blue eagle?
[close]

Oh shit! I donít know! Iím going to have to look into that for sure! I know deluxe has a shape thatís similar, but didnít think they had the same shape.

Those dimensions are just about the same as the 8.5 shorty they do in all their brands, pretty common shape. Might help you a bit in the future to check it out.

Woodshop

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2022, 04:53:15 PM »
How about across brands under one distro?

I couldíve sworn an almost 8.5 is not the same as an enjoi but reading specs on pretty accurate sites makes me think otherwise now


I recall some places have thousands of shapes, which seems ridiculous, but I guess when they are all CAD based now, people can do what they like on a whim and change this a bit or that a lot, the end result being another dozen shapes right there and then to add to the list.

It seems there are fairly generic shapes for many products, but there are also some more specific shapes for specific brands under the one distro as well, even if it does seem like they might be almost the same as another existing shape too.


Do we also include different presses, so different concave in the equation too, eg with Dwindle I see more mellow concave options on Enjoi pro boards, be it mellow concave steep kicks than on the cheaper Darkstar boards, which are mostly full concave steep kicks.  I can't remember what the most recent Almost was, but I think it was mellow concave too.

I know with some other boards, not just BBS, but with them certain shapes are only done on mellow molds, certain other shapes are only done on steeper molds too, some even just for the specific board or team rider's pro model as well.



augustmoon

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2022, 07:41:16 PM »
Always heard someone literally stole the double vision mold from vision to create the Barnyard deck
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Fooj

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2022, 08:30:11 PM »
Love this shape. Feels like it was made to use with Venture HIs
When Shane OíNeil started April, he took the primitive 8.25 shape with him. At least something very similar. Now the primitive 8.25 has changed (6.5 tail) and the April still has the long one


flintstagram

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2022, 09:52:51 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Isnít the Foy shape just the Anti Hero blue eagle?
[close]

Oh shit! I donít know! Iím going to have to look into that for sure! I know deluxe has a shape thatís similar, but didnít think they had the same shape.
[close]

Those dimensions are just about the same as the 8.5 shorty they do in all their brands, pretty common shape. Might help you a bit in the future to check it out.

Youíre right, they are super close. Iíve skated a Real that was this shape a few years ago, but the concave was a little steeper on the real than the Deathwish, and the nose and tail are the slightest bit different. I acknowledge how insanely nitpicky this is. Iím a mess.

Is there any difference in concave or shape of noses and tails between real/krooked/antihero?

Woodshop

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2022, 10:09:29 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Isnít the Foy shape just the Anti Hero blue eagle?
[close]

Oh shit! I donít know! Iím going to have to look into that for sure! I know deluxe has a shape thatís similar, but didnít think they had the same shape.
[close]

Those dimensions are just about the same as the 8.5 shorty they do in all their brands, pretty common shape. Might help you a bit in the future to check it out.
[close]

Youíre right, they are super close. Iíve skated a Real that was this shape a few years ago, but the concave was a little steeper on the real than the Deathwish, and the nose and tail are the slightest bit different. I acknowledge how insanely nitpicky this is. Iím a mess.

Is there any difference in concave or shape of noses and tails between real/krooked/antihero?


Same boards regardless, but you might find there are significant differences between I to IV in the concave.

If you hadn't had the talk about the different number in the press, I is the top so steeper concave and IV is the bottom which is more mellow concave.

If you prefer more mellow, you want to look for boards that have IV on the top between the front bolts, but there have still been some funny ones depending on which press, eg some are super mellow and others are more normal, regardless of the number on top.


Woodshop

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2022, 10:12:08 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Isnít the Foy shape just the Anti Hero blue eagle?
[close]

Oh shit! I donít know! Iím going to have to look into that for sure! I know deluxe has a shape thatís similar, but didnít think they had the same shape.
[close]

Those dimensions are just about the same as the 8.5 shorty they do in all their brands, pretty common shape.

Might help you a bit in the future to check it out.



I definitely agree with this.


Gray Imp Sausage Metal

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2022, 12:26:16 AM »
Passport spade shape is pretty much a polar surf jr. With minor tweaks.
Didnít dill steal all his ideas/ shapes from old Adrenalin boards?

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cucktard

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Re: Shape stealing
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2022, 12:39:19 AM »
I wish there was a version of those old girl shapes, readily available (guy, sheffey being my favorites).
Also with some slightly scaled up versions were in play.

Thereís a boutique wood shop on insta, the guy who runs it is meticulous about shapes, and specializes in custom shapes, especially older ones (he has a ton of stencils) and can size them up digitally to get the exact specs you want.

https://instagram.com/pretty_rad?utm_medium=copy_link
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