Weird Mark Appleyard / Geoff Rowley / Active Email

[Mullet Man]

I'm just curious - how do you reckon they don't care about skateboarding? Like, how did you come to that conclusion? And how do they hurt local shops? Wouldn't the average kid rather walk into a shop and get his shit immediately than wait? Seems like mail order is for kids who don't have a local shop, so it's a non-issue, isn't it?

[grimcity]

I'm just curious - how do you reckon they don't care about skateboarding? Like, how did you come to that conclusion? And how do they hurt local shops? Wouldn't the average kid rather walk into a shop and get his shit immediately than wait? Seems like mail order is for kids who don't have a local shop, so it's a non-issue, isn't it?

It's an issue... I write for a skate site that caters to young skaters, and in the forums there, there are tons of kids that talk about having two or three shops, but then they order a CCS or Bam deck because the shops in their neighborhood don't have either. It's hair-pullingly-frustrating, but a lot of kids don't quite understand the bigger picture, or even know that there is one.

I will say this though... core shops need to really make sure they educate their locals. These kids are getting shiny new CCS catalogs all the time, and making impulse buys. I've even heard of kids bringing in mailorder boards into their local shops to get them set up.

[mr wilson]

We were e-mailed some interesting information from Geoff Rowley and Mark Appleyard today. Straight from the horses' mouths...


Mark Appleyard:
"I quit Active today due to some disagreements, and I no longer feel I can support them as an endorsed rider. I hope they will move forward and support skateboarding in a positive and fair way for the good of everyone, and in this I wish them the best of luck."

Geoff Rowley:
"As of immediately, I am no longer able to endorse Active mail order as a team rider. Differences of opinion and direction have been a problem for quite some time and I am quitting for my own ethical reasons. I will be concentrating my focus on my main sponsors, and working with them to support the bigger picture of skateboarding as a whole."

Thats from the Transworld site, though I'm pretty sure they did not write those letters.  I dont think Apples would say "endoresed rider" at any point in his life.

I find it completely lame that TWS is quick to jump the gun on news like this without any solid evidence. their site sucks, and they try too hard to be real and cutting edge with skateboarding.

it seems a bit reaching and ill-fitting to feature pin ups of the month http://www.skateboarding.com/skate/stories/article/0,23271,1614177,00.html to young kids and then call women, wenches, hos, and bitches elsewhere http://www.skateboarding.com/skate/stories/article/0,23271,1613332,00.html  on their crappy site.

[Tuna]

They got your email adress because either your shop is connected with blitz(selling boards etc.) or maybe you entered to win some shit from one of their sites. when you enter those contests they ask for your email and oftentimes to enter a mailing list.

[plastic bench nerd]

who cares.

[SRFC]

I'm just curious - how do you reckon they don't care about skateboarding? Like, how did you come to that conclusion? And how do they hurt local shops? Wouldn't the average kid rather walk into a shop and get his shit immediately than wait? Seems like mail order is for kids who don't have a local shop, so it's a non-issue, isn't it?

It's a fairly simple conclusion to come to (for me). Active's a little harder to nail down, but here's a little info about CCS:

http://www.alloymarketing.com/mediakit/

Just check out that link, and then look around the site. Maybe start on "About Us". It's pretty clear that CCS is not skater owned/operated. That is usually a sign of someone not caring about skateboarding. Why would they if they're not actual skateboarders. There's nothing particularly wrong with what they're doing, it's "just business", but the more the youth support companies like this, the less they support the independent/local shops. My opinion is that the less independent shops that are out there, the worse "for skateboarding".

As mentioned above, mail order shops DO affect local shops. You would think kids want their stuff immediately, but amazingly enough, they're ALWAYS getting stuff from CCS (and Active to a lesser extent). It's near impossible for shops to compete with their selections. Maybe it's easier for the kids to get Mom and Dad's money if the parent's don't need to leave the house? Who knows. It's been said many times, but you get the kids that will try on sizes in the local store just to go order it online, and like Grim said, they'll bring in the stuff they got online to be assembled in your store.

Competition? So be it, but the fact that they have the support of the manufacturers, and as this thread is all about, the pros (many other pros are still on these company's teams), it's just creating more and more hurdles for the local shops to make ends meet. It all goes back to the "World Without Pros" debate, which this Appleyard/Rowley email thing reeks of.

[Vlade Divac]

I'm definitely not backing CCS' practices, but all you shit-talkers sound ignorant as fuck: they do "exclusives" with damn near every company you rep...

Example #1 (shoes)
http://shop.ccs.com/browse.do?categoryID=823&sidenavTrack=shoes.guys.exclusives

Example #2 (skate)
http://shop.ccs.com/browse.do?categoryID=259&sidenavTrack=skate.exclusives

[golgo13]

all an exclusve means is they had enough money to get a run of a 100 pairs of a certian colorway.

[brooklyn brawler]

A friend here was gonna do a DC "Toronto" exclusive shoe a few years ago. I think the idea got dropped, because the CN Tower ended up looking like a penis.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

I just am a bit creeped out by active. Going down on trips to southern califronia it seems like there are lame chain skateshops everywhere. No personality, no flavor. Maybe that doesn't bother you. It bothers me. I hope active doesn't spread much further than it has. I don't mind ccs so much, only because they existed when skating wasn't a good profit well, and for a while it was the only place I knew of to get a board. Eventually I learned of a local tennis store that had a skate section (the son of the owner skated) and gave up on ccs. but its not like they realized skating was huge and started selling skate shit to make a quick buck. Those guys seem in it for the long haul- for better or for worse.

[brooklyn brawler]

I give CCS and CSE credit for mailing out those free catalogues you'd read in highschool.

You'd see all the cool shit you couldn't get in your own local shop. Eventually, you'd end up thinking your local shop was a piece of crap for only having 50 boards, but not the exact same one you saw in the catalogue.

[rollo]

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I'm just curious - how do you reckon they don't care about skateboarding? Like, how did you come to that conclusion? And how do they hurt local shops? Wouldn't the average kid rather walk into a shop and get his shit immediately than wait? Seems like mail order is for kids who don't have a local shop, so it's a non-issue, isn't it?

[close]

It's an issue... I write for a skate site that caters to young skaters, and in the forums there, there are tons of kids that talk about having two or three shops, but then they order a CCS or Bam deck because the shops in their neighborhood don't have either. It's hair-pullingly-frustrating, but a lot of kids don't quite understand the bigger picture, or even know that there is one.

I will say this though... core shops need to really make sure they educate their locals. These kids are getting shiny new CCS catalogs all the time, and making impulse buys. I've even heard of kids bringing in mailorder boards into their local shops to get them set up.

I've even heard of kids bringing in mailorder boards into their local shops to get them set up.
LOL*thank god im not a shop owner these days

[phillip dominguez]

I've even heard of kids bringing in mailorder boards into their local shops to get them set up.

when kids or their parents used to do that at the shop i worked at we'd charge them $10-$20. 

[Mullet Man]

So you're mad at Active for giving kids what they want? I don't get it.

Sorry, but if you don't wanna carry Bam decks because you think he's wack and not "core" then you're not good at business. It sells. You run a shop to make $ because it's a business. Let the kids get what they want and don't blame Active for being better at business.

[phillip dominguez]

if you're talking to me i was never mad at anyone, i just didn't particularly like that the parents would order the exact same product our shop had,  because the guy who was in charge of ordering kept similar inventory to ccs/active to avoid losing business to them, then expect me to assemble it for free. 

[otis b driftwood]

It's an issue... I write for a skate site that caters to young skaters, and in the forums there, there are tons of kids that talk about having two or three shops, but then they order a CCS or Bam deck because the shops in their neighborhood don't have either. It's hair-pullingly-frustrating, but a lot of kids don't quite understand the bigger picture, or even know that there is one.

I will say this though... core shops need to really make sure they educate their locals. These kids are getting shiny new CCS catalogs all the time, and making impulse buys. I've even heard of kids bringing in mailorder boards into their local shops to get them set up.

so you 'educate' kids by telling them they shouldn't get the board they want, they should get one from your best friends shop instead?

because it's good for the scene i.e you get a park and to be in documentaries.

[grimcity]

So you're mad at Active for giving kids what they want? I don't get it.

S'cool.

Sorry, but if you don't wanna carry Bam decks because you think he's wack and not "core" then you're not good at business. It sells. You run a shop to make $ because it's a business. Let the kids get what they want and don't blame Active for being better at business.

I don't think shops should stoop to becoming toy stores if they don't want to... especially not when they can guide skaters into being more mature about skateboarding. That is, if you think a core shop should play a role with the skaters that means something more than brokering product to them.

Beyond that, a lot of kids just don't think about it in depth... they take their shops for granted, and it doesn't hit them that buying something via mailorder may be taking away from the local scene.

[otis b driftwood]

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So you're mad at Active for giving kids what they want? I don't get it.

[close]

S'cool.

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Sorry, but if you don't wanna carry Bam decks because you think he's wack and not "core" then you're not good at business. It sells. You run a shop to make $ because it's a business. Let the kids get what they want and don't blame Active for being better at business.

[close]

I don't think shops should stoop to becoming toy stores if they don't want to... especially not when they can guide skaters into being more mature about skateboarding. That is, if you think a core shop should play a role with the skaters that means something more than brokering product to them.

Beyond that, a lot of kids just don't think about it in depth... they take their shops for granted, and it doesn't hit them that buying something via mailorder may be taking away from the local scene.

so kids shouldn't be able to buy what they want? they need to be guided?

are you in the iasc?

[grimcity]

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It's an issue... I write for a skate site that caters to young skaters, and in the forums there, there are tons of kids that talk about having two or three shops, but then they order a CCS or Bam deck because the shops in their neighborhood don't have either. It's hair-pullingly-frustrating, but a lot of kids don't quite understand the bigger picture, or even know that there is one.

I will say this though... core shops need to really make sure they educate their locals. These kids are getting shiny new CCS catalogs all the time, and making impulse buys. I've even heard of kids bringing in mailorder boards into their local shops to get them set up.

[close]

so you 'educate' kids by telling them they shouldn't get the board they want, they should get one from your best friends shop instead?

Actually, I try to educate kids here on every aspect of skating that I can... I feel obligated to do so. As far as telling kids what they can and can't do, no... but I have explained why the shop doesn't carry certain brands. They're free to do what they want, but our locals tend to support the place.

because it's good for the scene i.e you get a park and to be in documentaries.

I'm not sure what's being implied, but all of us associated with the shop continually fight for skateboarding here. Every single one of us actively fights for skateboarders, and that's something that our entire community knows (going beyond the skate community). We fought every step of the way to get what we have, from statewide legislation that makes Louisiana more public park friendly, to actually helping other cities with their skatepark campaigns. On top of that, we continually write to our politicos to make sure that our interests are considered (we've had two successful construction phases at our park, and we're pushing a third), we also write to our local papers to make sure our concerns are heard, as well as respond to negative press that skateboarding sometimes gets here (all of our published pieces are scanned and archived on our site).

But we're lucky here... our locals know what the shop does for skateboarding, and they support us. I'd also bet that our groms are some of the smartest, most well versed kids anywhere when it comes to any skate related topic. On top of that, I'd venture to say that our kids can articulate why they love skateboarding better than any other kids.

Come see our scene first hand and you'll know what role a shop can play in creating and maintaining a skate community.

[grimcity]

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So you're mad at Active for giving kids what they want? I don't get it.

[close]

S'cool.

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Sorry, but if you don't wanna carry Bam decks because you think he's wack and not "core" then you're not good at business. It sells. You run a shop to make $ because it's a business. Let the kids get what they want and don't blame Active for being better at business.

[close]

I don't think shops should stoop to becoming toy stores if they don't want to... especially not when they can guide skaters into being more mature about skateboarding. That is, if you think a core shop should play a role with the skaters that means something more than brokering product to them.

Beyond that, a lot of kids just don't think about it in depth... they take their shops for granted, and it doesn't hit them that buying something via mailorder may be taking away from the local scene.

[close]

so kids shouldn't be able to buy what they want? they need to be guided?

They can buy whatever they want, they just can't buy it at Small Times.

And yes, I think young skaters need to be guided. My number one concern is that kids might be skating so they can get sponsored, which is a mentality I try to help guide them away from.

are you in the iasc?

Nice.

[Stand and Deliver]

Grim- as long as we're on the topic of mail orders, what is your feeling on actual shops or distributors that go into the mail order business?

[donnie_murdo]

No one think that maybe someone at Active pissed of Fox and Deacon - which in turn led to them making the whole team quit the shop ?

I'm suprised Active are still carrying Flip or related products just now

[grimcity]

Grim- as long as we're on the topic of mail orders, what is your feeling on actual shops or distributors that go into the mail order business?

I don't have a completely absolutist opinion on it... for example, if a kid lives in the middle of nowhere with no access to a skateshop whatsoever, I can see mail order as an option for them.

Having said that, I have a very pro-skateshop bias. When was a kid, I lived an hour away from the closest skate shop... so I would find ways to get there because I had a relationship with that shop. The people that ran the shop were involved with skateboarding, and they contributed to my enthusiasm for skating as any good shop should do. Along with that, I could stand on the boards in house and determine what decks I liked by actually handling them.

My overall opinion is that mail order places competing with real shops is the same thing as a mall store competing with a real shop.  As far as skateshops and distributors doing the mail order is concerned, I don't personally support the practice if that's part of their business model. Then again, I don't get paid to run a shop, so I have the luxury of having that opinion, as idealistic as it may be.

I do understand that there are nuances in every situation, but aside from that, I think anything that does harm to a proper shop is in turn harming skateboarding. It takes away from the community aspect that I think skateboarding should have. We have a best-case scenario here, where kids and adults can walk in and build a relationship with the Hammond scene just by talking to Kerry and other skaters. Parents can come in and learn why Abec 7's are more expensive than Abec 5's, and kids can meet other skaters and learn simple things about skateboarding that all of us older guys take for granted. No phone operator can provide that, nor can they provide local insight.

I don't like seeing skateboarding becoming some impersonal activity on any level... I think that that's part of the reason why skateboarding has cliques these days... a lot of skaters don't feel like they're a part of a larger family anymore. Along with that, I think that the business of skateboarding has introduced a new mentality in skating... a mentality that makes a kid start making sponsor-me videos the day he or she learns a kickflip. I think a good shop environment tempers that mindset by pushing the raw fun of what we do, versus the sterility of a phone call that simply involves a kid handing over money for a product.

[brooklyn brawler]

It sucks how kids can now choose their boards off regular television programming, and not some video they randomly dubbed off a friend.

I guess you can Tivo MTV now.

[Mullet Man]

I say that any shop, mail order or otherwise, that puts boards into kids' hands, is good for skateboarding.

Can't skate without a skateboard.

Even Bam is good for skateboarding for this reason. He gets kids wanting a skateboard, which is always the very first step.

[brooklyn brawler]

My rule of thumb:

If you can't put together the complete you just bought, get the fuck out of the store.

[Math Professor]

My rule of thumb:

If you can't put together the complete you just bought, get the fuck out of the store.

True.  But everyone's gotta start somewhere.

[Stand and Deliver]

I think there are varying degrees of evil (not the right word, just the first that comes to mind) in the skateboard mail order world and I don't think you can just lump them all into the same category.

CCS is obviously the most vile out of the lot.  As another poster posted earlier in the thread, they're not owned by skateboarders; nor do they give back to skateboarding by providing anything other than products.  No signings, no demos, no contests - jack shit.  They're like fucking Hot Topic and Active combined.

I think that Active is slightly less vile because they do actually have shops (even though they're staffed by 16 year old girls) and they do give something back to the kids by having demos / signings, etc. where they have shops.

Lastly would be someone like SPoT or DNA; for example. Both of which have a mail order service.  They wouldn't help out with your local scene and the sense of community you're trying to build, but they have given back to the skateboard world as a whole for years.

[brooklyn brawler]

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My rule of thumb:

If you can't put together the complete you just bought, get the fuck out of the store.

[close]

True.  But everyone's gotta start somewhere.

Hey, there's nothing better than the sight of seeing your first complete put together in front of you. Or getting help fixing your first broken bearing or kingpin.

I find it 100% ignorant when I see some kids never touching a tool, or a skate shop worker behind the counter with clean hands.

[miff]

Active's seemed weird for a while though. Don't know if it's entirely a bad thing or a good thing, but have you seen their catalogs?

I've seen local goof kids, who "rip"... but there attire is always a little strange. Just a jumble of brands and styles. Like you can clearly see that these kids are really into skating, but the
clash of Zero and Ice cream and Lakai and _______ makes you scratch your head.

So is it a bad thing... that some younger skaters seem to have a "no color lines" feel when it comes to brands? Or can you blame places like active? The point about their catalogs, is that there is no differentiation between anything... You'll see the ice cream hoodie, next to the zero, next to the ipath beanie. If I was unaware of all brands (wish I was) and headed to Active to get some clothes or whatever... I'd look like a real goof too (If I didn't already)