Author Topic: Switch kickflip  (Read 667 times)

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Solex

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Switch kickflip
« on: April 25, 2022, 12:17:21 PM »
Hi pals!

I crumpled a bit my regular flick foot ankle recently, so I try to improve my very small switch game, and while I've never been so close to get some switch/nollie heelflips landed, I can't say the same about switch/nollie kickflips.

No matter the front foot and shoulders positioning, or how I delay the flick, the board usually rotates around the wrong axis rocking vertically and the tail flips over the nose.

Any help would be appreciated!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 03:27:42 PM by Solex »

gin

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2022, 01:10:50 PM »
That sounds like you're getting too much drag if it's forward flipping. Do you have any clips of the attempts? I always find reviewing footage helps identify the problems.
The problem could also be the direction of the flick, where you're flipping too forward and straight off the nose rather than more through the pocket.

dr.prestige

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2022, 01:27:01 PM »
Perhaps you're focusing on the flick too much. Try putting your feet in switch flip position and then putting the idea in your head that you're going to switch ollie

I should say that my own personal experience with switch flips has been that it took me trying it forever with no success to eventually have them start working. I didn't really change my approach to them, I just attempted them over and over until I started making them. It also helped to not think about it for a while and let myself focus on other skate shit, and then eventually come back to them after a decent amount of time has passed.

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Solex

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2022, 02:45:14 PM »
I really appreciate it. Thanks!

I edited the first post to make it clear. The board tends to rock vertically.

I already try to be as light as possible, especially with the front foot, so I think it's actually a flick direction problem, but I didn't find how to solve that. I also tried to think 'ollie', but the same thing happens.

If it doesn't get better in a near futur, like you said I'll probably put that trick aside for a moment and think about other stuffs, and sometimes give it some tries to see how it goes.

Footage is probably a good idea but I'm really not used to do that (filming, editing, uploading...). If I find the time I'll maybe do that.

Skatebeard

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2022, 01:39:40 AM »
idk if this helps but i was getting much closer to them nollie (could get the full rotation of the spin at least), so might be worth working them nollie for a while and seeing if that unlocks something for the switch flips.

Billy Bitchcakes

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2022, 02:57:02 AM »
Hard to say without seeing what you're doing but a few guesses...

Open your shoulders. You get so used to looking down at your front foot that when learning switch it can be hard to get used to turning and looking at the other foot.

Point your foot a bit more. Again hard to get used to for similar reasons

Most likely one at a guess - Lean your body more over the heelside of your board. I'll bet you're hunching slightly over the toeside making it hard to flick your foot off at the right angle. Lean back a bit and open up so you can really see where your foot needs flick off to.

Good luck. They're pretty much the only trick I have left, hella fun.
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Solex

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2022, 03:54:16 AM »
idk if this helps but i was getting much closer to them nollie (could get the full rotation of the spin at least), so might be worth working them nollie for a while and seeing if that unlocks something for the switch flips.
I already do both, without noticeable difference unfortunatly!

Hard to say without seeing what you're doing but a few guesses...

Open your shoulders. You get so used to looking down at your front foot that when learning switch it can be hard to get used to turning and looking at the other foot.

Point your foot a bit more. Again hard to get used to for similar reasons

Most likely one at a guess - Lean your body more over the heelside of your board. I'll bet you're hunching slightly over the toeside making it hard to flick your foot off at the right angle. Lean back a bit and open up so you can really see where your foot needs flick off to.

Good luck. They're pretty much the only trick I have left, hella fun.
Your advices make sense. I'll try to focus on these points and see how it goes.

Many thanks guys!

Dimitrov

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2022, 04:10:43 AM »
You need to strengthen the ankle. Set up the board in a stationary way with the tail touching the ground and drag your foot off the spot on the nose to train yourself between tries

Mark Renton

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2022, 05:14:37 AM »
If I understand properly the problem is in your front foot positioning.
Try and put your front foot way more to the side and not inside the board as you would do for normal kick flips.
Once you learn them you can always readjust but Iíd say start to learn them that way.

Shoulders should be perfectly parallel.
This trick is pretty easy if you have decent sw ollies.
Try and jump a lot it will help you loads.

Then itís just a matter of keep trying them and they will come pretty quick.
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SaySo

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2022, 01:03:41 AM »
I'm by no means consistent with this trick or nollie flips (or most tricks...), but stretching, strengthening, and improving overall foot "dexterity" or sensitivity has helped me out with switch flick and for tricks overall.

Like tracing the alphabet regular (from left to right) and then mirror (from right to left) using the big toe as the "stylus."

This also helps for rehab (ankle rehab).
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silhouette

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2022, 01:18:52 AM »
My mental process for that trick:

1/ shoulders parallel, maybe even pretend to face your nose a wee bit if for some reason your reflexes insist on opening them up (similarly to how switch ollies down stuff can feel like a backwards trick);

2/ foot positioning, for some reason I feel like the back foot in particular is especially important, I know I feel like I really use my big toe in the center of the nose (... 'tail') to get the right controlled pop for that trick and also help the concave stick to the front foot better, so from that point on I can just extend my leg in the direction I'm going to automatically get the flip, back foot I also set up at a slight angle;

3/ think about the ideal, Keenan Milton, and embrace the reality that your humble contribution to the world of switch flips is but a mere sacrifice as you do land and ride away clean.

They can be quite the spiritual and physical process to figure out if you let them, but once you get them you get why they're one of the best tricks in skateboarding.

Solex

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2022, 03:19:34 AM »
Thank you all.

I really think front leg/foot dexterity is a big part of the problem  During the last session I succeeded a few times to get the board flip about right when I was really focused on the trajectory, but it will need a certain amount of work to get that move naturally.

Anyway, I now have heel pain for a few days, so let's make another break...it's a hard comeback.

2/ foot positioning, for some reason I feel like the back foot in particular is especially important, I know I feel like I really use my big toe in the center of the nose (... 'tail') to get the right controlled pop for that trick and also help the concave stick to the front foot better, so from that point on I can just extend my leg in the direction I'm going to automatically get the flip, back foot I also set up at a slight angle;
I'm not sure to understand the foot positioning you describe!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 05:50:29 AM by Solex »

silhouette

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2022, 06:25:20 AM »
Thank you all.

I really think front leg/foot dexterity is a big part of the problem  During the last session I succeeded a few times to get the board flip about right when I was really focused on the trajectory, but it will need a certain amount of work to get that move naturally.

Anyway, I now have heel pain for a few days, so let's make another break...it's a hard comeback.

Expand Quote
2/ foot positioning, for some reason I feel like the back foot in particular is especially important, I know I feel like I really use my big toe in the center of the nose (... 'tail') to get the right controlled pop for that trick and also help the concave stick to the front foot better, so from that point on I can just extend my leg in the direction I'm going to automatically get the flip, back foot I also set up at a slight angle;
[close]
I'm not sure to understand the foot positioning you describe!

Sorry if I worded that in a confusing manner, I meant the popping foot, I set it up at an angle (for stability and I feel like to build a certain tension) and really use my big toe when I pop, where feels like somewhere around the center of whichever end of the board you pop off switch. There just are skaters who pop off the nose of their board switch (the 'classic way') and then others who turn their boards around and skate the tail and so explaining switch tricks it can get tricky conveying which foot or side of the board I mean. Front foot rests in the concave, mostly laying flat and ready to react to the pop somewhere near the truck bolts then as soon as I pop I just extend my leg, honestly once you've figured out the flick just the foot positioning itself does most of the work. From that point on, if one ends up doing switch frontside flips by accident then it's the shoulders thing.

Solex

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2022, 09:09:01 AM »
Sorry if I worded that in a confusing manner, I meant the popping foot, I set it up at an angle (for stability and I feel like to build a certain tension) and really use my big toe when I pop, where feels like somewhere around the center of whichever end of the board you pop off switch. There just are skaters who pop off the nose of their board switch (the 'classic way') and then others who turn their boards around and skate the tail and so explaining switch tricks it can get tricky conveying which foot or side of the board I mean. Front foot rests in the concave, mostly laying flat and ready to react to the pop somewhere near the truck bolts then as soon as I pop I just extend my leg, honestly once you've figured out the flick just the foot positioning itself does most of the work. From that point on, if one ends up doing switch frontside flips by accident then it's the shoulders thing.
OK! So unless I miss something your popping foot is quite in the heel side isn't it? Don't you tend to lean back?

P.S: I have a Crob twin 'paddle', so you know, 'nose'...'tail'... :D
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 09:35:10 AM by Solex »

silhouette

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2022, 01:31:55 PM »
Feels more like the very tip of the board than the heel side, for a quick snap and vertical pop and yeah, I guess I kind of lean back but then again I do the same for switch ollies over stuff or relatively high ones on flat. For switch ollie you really slam down on the pop and then bring the board up with your knees, switch flip is basically the same just with an extension to the movement. I also think it only matters so much to set up each of your feet in this or that specific manner, what's important is that the front foot placement should respond to the back foot placement and pop. Don't mob down, really switch ollie and then basically kick out in front of you with a flick at the apex. Once you've figured out the 'correct' way to form the flip, your switch flip is basically as good as your switch ollies are. Maybe sometimes they do feel a bit like 'fakie nollie flips', I don't know, I kinda do both equally and so both blend together for me.

Solex

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2022, 02:32:15 PM »
OK I got it. No matter the stance, I tend to put my back foot at the very tip most of the time anyway. I will try to move that foot a little bit in the heel side to see how it goes with the flick.

Thank you for taking the time!

silhouette

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2022, 10:47:48 PM »
All cool, by the way when I was saying popping foot at an angle I meant an open angle (think of a duck-like stance), outwards not inwards. But definitely please experiment and find the sweet spot for the right pop that works for you, no one does things the same, what matters at the end of the day is to be in control of what you're doing regardless of how you're doing it.

Another tip I've given before on switch flips that seems to really help people is to think of their deck width as non-existent anywhere past the truck hardware, basically pretend your board is outrageously narrow and try to place your toes somewhere on that axis and work with just that line. Helps visualize everything a lot better because you really don't need any other parameter for a straight trick like (but not limited to) switch flip, encourages pointy toe action too and thus may help find the flick.

Or something that really worked for me was to purposefully ignore that I was working on switch flip on a particular day but instead was just trying to fix my normal kickflip just from a weird positioning. Helped desacralize the concept of the trick in my head and also allowed me to realize how much about my current goal I already knew (from my normal stance) if that makes sense. And I mean people lie to themselves about worst things all the time.

Solex

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2022, 05:37:11 AM »
No worries, I do experiment!

Thanks a lot. :)

SaySo

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2022, 06:58:18 AM »
Went out for a session this evening, and something I realized I do when my switch and nollie flip flick are more consistent and controlled is by "leading with my knee."

I never really stopped to think about it, but this thread got me analyzing what I do when things work better.

When I set up,  I have my popping foot more in the pocket with my heel hanging off and the ball of my foot on the center axis of the board (in the truck width area that Silhouette was referring to). My flicking foot is right behind the bolts with the ball of my foot also bisecting the centerline of the board. Weight distribution is even for me at this point.

What I mean by "leading with my knee," is to make sure that my knee is up and in front of/past the tail (switch nose) just slightly before the peak of the pop. I think by doing this it allows me to have a lighter flick because my hips are already open and have less of a tendency to "throw out the board," or for the board to get stuck on my flicking foot - both of which seem to happen if I flick too early while the board is still rising.

I'm not sure this makes much sense.

Take this all with a grain of salt, since honestly I am not consistent at all with landing this trick...Terminal case of front wuss foot.

If anyone has a remedy for this ailment, please hook a brother up.

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willphansbiggestfan

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2022, 09:46:59 AM »
Get really good at switch Ollieís and flicking the switch flip but stepping off, really focus on the feeling of how that ankle rolls. Then just focus on doing a switch ollie and mid air incorporate that flick. Since you focus on the switch ollie first, your shoulders will already be naturally committed.
When youíre adding the flick itís easy to fuck your shoulders up or miss the pop but after a lot of practice it should come a lot more easier and consistent. Doing a ton of switch Ollieís to warmup will really help get the timing and make ghost pop less frequent
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layzieyez

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Re: Switch kickflip
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2022, 01:26:30 PM »
You're doing a switch dolphin naturally. Land that if you can. Just for fun. If I could get close naturally I would see if I could roll away from one.
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