some girl contest skater making a huge fuss over losing to a trans woman

[conqueso]

Expand Quote

i don't get how people are so confident with these topics and insensitive to people being confused, taking pause, questioning, etc... there's a lot of tricky things that will likely pop up. is it naive or wrong to ask what it means to be a woman in the context of these events? is there some type of definition or qualification or is it simply a matter of someone saying they are a woman when they register? wouldn't that leave open competing in different events as different sexes on different days? would it even be possible to identify as both a man and a woman and compete in both events on the same day. if being both sexes isn't a thing, why not? if someone says they are both who's to say they aren't. if competing at different events as different sexes on different days shouldn't be allowed, why not? do the organizers of the events have any say in these matters being the ones who are creating the categories or is the concept of male and female now essentially unregulated.

there's so many things that can pop up around these evolving understandings of gender and identity and i really don't get why people are being complete a holes about this in both directions. what happened to talking about things in rational ways.

[close]

If you are confused and seek answers to these questions, asking them in the middle of a heated discussion might not be the best move. Instead, contact an LGBTQ advocacy group in your area and see if they can help you. I would be interested to find out what your opinion is after talking to them.

 In this particular case, however, there should be no confusion if you believe that trans women are women.

to be fair all he did is bring up some reasonable questions that nobody here has been able answer with out lashing out negatively and emotionally

[concerned_parent]

As G.I.M.S. said above....(posted screen shots for pals that don't use Instagram)

imagine placing in a contest and being given a natural ply blank skateboard deck as a prize

[TwisT]

I saw a reply that said the woman who won Was a child. Specifically “half her age” don’t out the winner, because so far in haven’t seen the winner tagged, but is it true?

[dofrenzy]

i don't get how people are so confident with these topics and insensitive to people being confused, taking pause, questioning, etc... there's a lot of tricky things that will likely pop up. is it naive or wrong to ask what it means to be a woman in the context of these events? is there some type of definition or qualification or is it simply a matter of someone saying they are a woman when they register? wouldn't that leave open competing in different events as different sexes on different days? would it even be possible to identify as both a man and a woman and compete in both events on the same day. if being both sexes isn't a thing, why not? if someone says they are both who's to say they aren't. if competing at different events as different sexes on different days shouldn't be allowed, why not? do the organizers of the events have any say in these matters being the ones who are creating the categories or is the concept of male and female now essentially unregulated.

there's so many things that can pop up around these evolving understandings of gender and identity and i really don't get why people are being complete a holes about this in both directions. what happened to talking about things in rational ways.

I agree.  My wife and I had a nice discussion about this last night.  The best word to describe how I feel about this is conflicted.  Ultimately, I believe Taylor Silverman is in the right.  Maybe her tagging of a potential lynch mob of transphobic people was a little over the top but I’m sure her emotions were running high.

I am trying to put this in the context of history.  Even today, women are fighting for equal pay for equal work.  They only got the right to vote across the whole United States in 1920.  The proper way to introduce a married couple is still “Mr and Mrs. Insert-man’s-name-here”. 

I wonder how the 1st place winner feels.

I (we?) would LOVE to hear from a transitioned woman about how they feel about this situation.

[Alan]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

i don't get how people are so confident with these topics and insensitive to people being confused, taking pause, questioning, etc... there's a lot of tricky things that will likely pop up. is it naive or wrong to ask what it means to be a woman in the context of these events? is there some type of definition or qualification or is it simply a matter of someone saying they are a woman when they register? wouldn't that leave open competing in different events as different sexes on different days? would it even be possible to identify as both a man and a woman and compete in both events on the same day. if being both sexes isn't a thing, why not? if someone says they are both who's to say they aren't. if competing at different events as different sexes on different days shouldn't be allowed, why not? do the organizers of the events have any say in these matters being the ones who are creating the categories or is the concept of male and female now essentially unregulated.

there's so many things that can pop up around these evolving understandings of gender and identity and i really don't get why people are being complete a holes about this in both directions. what happened to talking about things in rational ways.

[close]

If you are confused and seek answers to these questions, asking them in the middle of a heated discussion might not be the best move. Instead, contact an LGBTQ advocacy group in your area and see if they can help you. I would be interested to find out what your opinion is after talking to them.

 In this particular case, however, there should be no confusion if you believe that trans women are women.

[close]

to be fair all he did is bring up some reasonable questions that nobody here has been able answer with out lashing out negatively and emotionally

That's my point. He won't get the answers he seeks here, especially since some of them are highly unlikely hypotheticals that aren't relevant to the topic at hand, which is that a woman complained about another women being better than her in a contest.

[Magnolia]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

i don't get how people are so confident with these topics and insensitive to people being confused, taking pause, questioning, etc... there's a lot of tricky things that will likely pop up. is it naive or wrong to ask what it means to be a woman in the context of these events? is there some type of definition or qualification or is it simply a matter of someone saying they are a woman when they register? wouldn't that leave open competing in different events as different sexes on different days? would it even be possible to identify as both a man and a woman and compete in both events on the same day. if being both sexes isn't a thing, why not? if someone says they are both who's to say they aren't. if competing at different events as different sexes on different days shouldn't be allowed, why not? do the organizers of the events have any say in these matters being the ones who are creating the categories or is the concept of male and female now essentially unregulated.

there's so many things that can pop up around these evolving understandings of gender and identity and i really don't get why people are being complete a holes about this in both directions. what happened to talking about things in rational ways.

[close]

If you are confused and seek answers to these questions, asking them in the middle of a heated discussion might not be the best move. Instead, contact an LGBTQ advocacy group in your area and see if they can help you. I would be interested to find out what your opinion is after talking to them.

 In this particular case, however, there should be no confusion if you believe that trans women are women.

[close]

to be fair all he did is bring up some reasonable questions that nobody here has been able answer with out lashing out negatively and emotionally

I think Alan's response was pretty solid. The narrative around trans women competing in sports is pretty much entirely driven by right wing outrage, so stepping back and learning more about trans people's experiences in a less biased environment is definitely going to be more helpful than trying to put figure it out from a thread like this. The questions like "what if a man just registers as a woman to win" are baseless hypotheticals used to justify discrimination against trans people.

[Giftedly Hater’d]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

i don't get how people are so confident with these topics and insensitive to people being confused, taking pause, questioning, etc... there's a lot of tricky things that will likely pop up. is it naive or wrong to ask what it means to be a woman in the context of these events? is there some type of definition or qualification or is it simply a matter of someone saying they are a woman when they register? wouldn't that leave open competing in different events as different sexes on different days? would it even be possible to identify as both a man and a woman and compete in both events on the same day. if being both sexes isn't a thing, why not? if someone says they are both who's to say they aren't. if competing at different events as different sexes on different days shouldn't be allowed, why not? do the organizers of the events have any say in these matters being the ones who are creating the categories or is the concept of male and female now essentially unregulated.

there's so many things that can pop up around these evolving understandings of gender and identity and i really don't get why people are being complete a holes about this in both directions. what happened to talking about things in rational ways.

[close]

If you are confused and seek answers to these questions, asking them in the middle of a heated discussion might not be the best move. Instead, contact an LGBTQ advocacy group in your area and see if they can help you. I would be interested to find out what your opinion is after talking to them.

 In this particular case, however, there should be no confusion if you believe that trans women are women.

[close]

to be fair all he did is bring up some reasonable questions that nobody here has been able answer with out lashing out negatively and emotionally

[close]

That's my point. He won't get the answers he seeks here, especially since some of them are highly unlikely hypotheticals that aren't relevant to the topic at hand, which is that a woman complained about another women being better than her in a contest.

“Answers” is an optimistic-bordering-on-impossible outcome for this issue in any venue. My reading of Sleazy’s comment was an attempt to change the tenor of the conversation to something more productive and rooted in good faith.  I’m all for that.  I get what you’re saying… that this is a “heated” discussion and generally rough and tumble format to have it in… but why does it have to be? 

[mamba]

I think banning would just make anyone who sides with her feel more sure about how they feel. Just let her continue to not be good enough to qualify for anything decent.

As far as them not following anyone on insta, did anyone follow them before their post? Maybe they unfollowed everyone to save them from potential backlash/collateral damage.

i followed her a few months ago and she wasn’t following anyone

[conqueso]

ok. so anyone who asks questions is driven by 'right wing outrage'

you realize how insane that is?

[assvogel]

Alan is correct.

The topic really isn't about "trans women in contests", especially when those arguments aren't in good faith at all. It's about a skateboarder complaining about losing a competition and calling all the worst shit heels to go after and harass another, marginalized, skateboarder and the people who organized the competition, so she would have her moment.

The fact that the person who won, is a trans woman and the way she presented herself and the words she used in her post, shows that she isn't acting because of "equality in contest" but from a point of hate, discrimination and prejudice.

The fact a dumb ass like Tim Poo is batting for her, shows she's not on the right side of things. And shit like that doesn't have a place in skateboarding.

[Ignatius J Reilly]

Expand Quote

i don't get how people are so confident with these topics and insensitive to people being confused, taking pause, questioning, etc... there's a lot of tricky things that will likely pop up. is it naive or wrong to ask what it means to be a woman in the context of these events? is there some type of definition or qualification or is it simply a matter of someone saying they are a woman when they register? wouldn't that leave open competing in different events as different sexes on different days? would it even be possible to identify as both a man and a woman and compete in both events on the same day. if being both sexes isn't a thing, why not? if someone says they are both who's to say they aren't. if competing at different events as different sexes on different days shouldn't be allowed, why not? do the organizers of the events have any say in these matters being the ones who are creating the categories or is the concept of male and female now essentially unregulated.

there's so many things that can pop up around these evolving understandings of gender and identity and i really don't get why people are being complete a holes about this in both directions. what happened to talking about things in rational ways.

[close]

I agree.  My wife and I had a nice discussion about this last night.  The best word to describe how I feel about this is conflicted.  Ultimately, I believe Taylor Silverman is in the right.  Maybe her tagging of a potential lynch mob of transphobic people was a little over the top but I’m sure her emotions were running high.

I am trying to put this in the context of history.  Even today, women are fighting for equal pay for equal work.  They only got the right to vote across the whole United States in 1920.  The proper way to introduce a married couple is still “Mr and Mrs. Insert-man’s-name-here”. 

I wonder how the 1st place winner feels.

I (we?) would LOVE to hear from a transitioned woman about how they feel about this situation.  For now, I’ll leave it at congratulations to Taylor Silverman on her 1st place win in the women’s competition.

no she isn't. she's a subpar skateboarder who's complaining that she only won $3k six months after the fact and attempting to create a controversy and go viral as a means to springboard a career as a reactionary. multiple people who seem to know her, or have experience with her, or judged the contest, have pointed out that she's been a sore loser in the past; that she's competed (and placed) in men's competitions and didn't seem to find any issue with that; and that the first place winner in this particular contest deserved the win. the fact that taylor tagged some of the most notorious talking heads on the far right should be an indication to everyone here that none of this is being approached or treated in good faith, and beyond the "politics" of this whole mess, demanding "acknowledgement for your win" is some of the absolute wackest shit imaginable - the kind of stuff austin seaholm got blacklisted for almost two decades ago. and anyone who's defending her, and by proxy all of this nonsense, is outing themselves as, at best, ignorant (but not beyond help or learning), and at worse, a bigot who should be ostracized from skateboarding going forward

"congratulations to Taylor Silverman on her 1st place win in the women’s competition" get the fuck outta here

[Magnolia]

Expand Quote

i don't get how people are so confident with these topics and insensitive to people being confused, taking pause, questioning, etc... there's a lot of tricky things that will likely pop up. is it naive or wrong to ask what it means to be a woman in the context of these events? is there some type of definition or qualification or is it simply a matter of someone saying they are a woman when they register? wouldn't that leave open competing in different events as different sexes on different days? would it even be possible to identify as both a man and a woman and compete in both events on the same day. if being both sexes isn't a thing, why not? if someone says they are both who's to say they aren't. if competing at different events as different sexes on different days shouldn't be allowed, why not? do the organizers of the events have any say in these matters being the ones who are creating the categories or is the concept of male and female now essentially unregulated.

there's so many things that can pop up around these evolving understandings of gender and identity and i really don't get why people are being complete a holes about this in both directions. what happened to talking about things in rational ways.

[close]

I agree.  My wife and I had a nice discussion about this last night.  The best word to describe how I feel about this is conflicted.  Ultimately, I believe Taylor Silverman is in the right.  Maybe her tagging of a potential lynch mob of transphobic people was a little over the top but I’m sure her emotions were running high.

I am trying to put this in the context of history.  Even today, women are fighting for equal pay for equal work.  They only got the right to vote across the whole United States in 1920.  The proper way to introduce a married couple is still “Mr and Mrs. Insert-man’s-name-here”. 

I wonder how the 1st place winner feels.

I (we?) would LOVE to hear from a transitioned woman about how they feel about this situation.  For now, I’ll leave it at congratulations to Taylor Silverman on her 1st place win in the women’s competition.

Trans woman here to kindly say your post sucks.
Tagging a bunch of reactionary media figures will at best lead to the winner being harassed, and has a real likelihood of inciting violence against her/other trans skaters.
Taylor competed against a better skater and lost, shit happens. By saying she's the real 1st place winner, you're denying that trans women are actually women (yes this is transphobic).
Can you explain the stuff you added for historical context? I fail to see its relevance to this

[Magnolia]

ok. so anyone who asks questions is driven by 'right wing outrage'

you realize how insane that is?

That literally isn't what I said but go off ig

All the furor around trans women participating in sports isn't actually based in reality. There isn't some fucking agenda where we transition to dunk on cis women for money or glory or whatever. If your questions around trans identities are focused on whether or not it's acceptable for them to compete in women's sports, you are literally regurgitating reactionary talking points

[excitableboy]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

i don't get how people are so confident with these topics and insensitive to people being confused, taking pause, questioning, etc... there's a lot of tricky things that will likely pop up. is it naive or wrong to ask what it means to be a woman in the context of these events? is there some type of definition or qualification or is it simply a matter of someone saying they are a woman when they register? wouldn't that leave open competing in different events as different sexes on different days? would it even be possible to identify as both a man and a woman and compete in both events on the same day. if being both sexes isn't a thing, why not? if someone says they are both who's to say they aren't. if competing at different events as different sexes on different days shouldn't be allowed, why not? do the organizers of the events have any say in these matters being the ones who are creating the categories or is the concept of male and female now essentially unregulated.

there's so many things that can pop up around these evolving understandings of gender and identity and i really don't get why people are being complete a holes about this in both directions. what happened to talking about things in rational ways.

[close]

If you are confused and seek answers to these questions, asking them in the middle of a heated discussion might not be the best move. Instead, contact an LGBTQ advocacy group in your area and see if they can help you. I would be interested to find out what your opinion is after talking to them.

 In this particular case, however, there should be no confusion if you believe that trans women are women.

[close]

to be fair all he did is bring up some reasonable questions that nobody here has been able answer with out lashing out negatively and emotionally

[close]

I think Alan's response was pretty solid. The narrative around trans women competing in sports is pretty much entirely driven by right wing outrage, so stepping back and learning more about trans people's experiences in a less biased environment is definitely going to be more helpful than trying to put figure it out from a thread like this. The questions like "what if a man just registers as a woman to win" are baseless hypotheticals used to justify discrimination against trans people.

I do see what you and Alan are saying. Although you just gave a valid answer, so things seem to be working. But I guess a good faith discussion is more than this thing merits, seeing as it was born out of blatant bigotry.

[conqueso]

Expand Quote

ok. so anyone who asks questions is driven by 'right wing outrage'

you realize how insane that is?

[close]

That literally isn't what I said but go off ig

All the furor around trans women participating in sports isn't actually based in reality. There isn't some fucking agenda where we transition to dunk on cis women for money or glory or whatever. If your questions around trans identities are focused on whether or not it's acceptable for them to compete in women's sports, you are literally regurgitating reactionary talking points

i did not give you an opinion about anyone or the issue even

did this really happen or not? how is it not based in reality?

using logic to express curiosity about something is not a 'reactionary talking point'

just be nice to people it'll work better

[Freelancevagrant]

Imagine being a skateboarder who has only received any form of recognition for being a transphobic, bigoted, piece of shit. Instead of coverage in a core publication, you get coverage by republican news outlets. That is fucking embarrassing.

@NotTheCars Ive gnarred you and some other pals need to gnar you as well. Huge shout out to you.

In no fucking way is Taylor in the right. @dofrenzy you’re better than this, or at least I thought you were.

It is transphobic to deny the accomplishments of trans women. Period. Point blank.

It also bears noting that no amount of TERF rhetoric makes this any less transphobic or misogynistic. All her message accomplishes is reinforcing the patriarchal thought process that women aren’t as talented or athletically gifted. Which is absolute horse shit.

She tried to get Ben Shapiro’s attention. That should tell you the whole fucking story.

Trans women are women, and if you’re against trans rights, you’re against women’s rights. End of story.

She is a transphobic, sore loser.

[mamba]

Alan is correct.

The topic really isn't about "trans women in contests", especially when those arguments aren't in good faith at all. It's about a skateboarder complaining about losing a competition and calling all the worst shit heels to go after and harass another, marginalized, skateboarder and the people who organized the competition, so she would have her moment.

The fact that the person who won, is a trans woman and the way she presented herself and the words she used in her post, shows that she isn't acting because of "equality in contest" but from a point of hate, discrimination and prejudice.

The fact a dumb ass like Tim Poo is batting for her, shows she's not on the right side of things. And shit like that doesn't have a place in skateboarding.

retweet

[fredgallSOTY]

absolutely bitchmade

[DaleSr]

Imagine being a skateboarder who has only received any form of recognition for being a transphobic, bigoted, peace of shit. Instead of coverage in a core publication, you get coverage by republican news outlets. That is fucking embarrassing.

@NotTheCars Ive gnarred you and some other pals need to gnar you as well. Huge shout out to you.

In no fucking way is Taylor in the right.

It is transphobic to deny the accomplishments of trans women. Period. Point blank.

It also bears noting that no amount of TERF rhetoric makes this any less transphobic or misogynistic. All her accomplishes is reinforcing the patriarchal thought process that women aren’t as talented or athletically gifted. Which is absolute horse shit.

She tried to get Ben Shapiro’s attention. That should tell you the whole fucking story.

If you’re against trans rights, you’re against women’s right. Period.

She is a transphobic, sore loser.

If you're a skater and you're trying to get Tim pool or Ben Shapiro to retweet your lame anti Trans crusade, then you are a total loser. Roller backpack energy to the max

[somefucker]

Expand Quote

i don't get how people are so confident with these topics and insensitive to people being confused, taking pause, questioning, etc... there's a lot of tricky things that will likely pop up. is it naive or wrong to ask what it means to be a woman in the context of these events? is there some type of definition or qualification or is it simply a matter of someone saying they are a woman when they register? wouldn't that leave open competing in different events as different sexes on different days? would it even be possible to identify as both a man and a woman and compete in both events on the same day. if being both sexes isn't a thing, why not? if someone says they are both who's to say they aren't. if competing at different events as different sexes on different days shouldn't be allowed, why not? do the organizers of the events have any say in these matters being the ones who are creating the categories or is the concept of male and female now essentially unregulated.

there's so many things that can pop up around these evolving understandings of gender and identity and i really don't get why people are being complete a holes about this in both directions. what happened to talking about things in rational ways.

[close]

I agree.  My wife and I had a nice discussion about this last night.  The best word to describe how I feel about this is conflicted.  Ultimately, I believe Taylor Silverman is in the right.  Maybe her tagging of a potential lynch mob of transphobic people was a little over the top but I’m sure her emotions were running high.

I am trying to put this in the context of history.  Even today, women are fighting for equal pay for equal work.  They only got the right to vote across the whole United States in 1920.  The proper way to introduce a married couple is still “Mr and Mrs. Insert-man’s-name-here”. 

I wonder how the 1st place winner feels.

I (we?) would LOVE to hear from a transitioned woman about how they feel about this situation.

just having a hard time understanding , so let me get this straight

all these women knowingly, and willingly entered the contest, right?

they were aware of who their competitors are, right?

the moment the contest started, everyone there accepted whatever the outcome was

bitching, moaning, trying to get your way after the fact is just ignorant and immature

taylor being transphobic is icing on the cake

[Freelancevagrant]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

ok. so anyone who asks questions is driven by 'right wing outrage'

you realize how insane that is?

[close]

That literally isn't what I said but go off ig

All the furor around trans women participating in sports isn't actually based in reality. There isn't some fucking agenda where we transition to dunk on cis women for money or glory or whatever. If your questions around trans identities are focused on whether or not it's acceptable for them to compete in women's sports, you are literally regurgitating reactionary talking points

[close]

i did not give you an opinion about anyone or the issue even

did this really happen or not? how is it not based in reality?

using logic to express curiosity about something is not a 'reactionary talking point'

just be nice to people it'll work better

Don’t tell a trans person to be nice. Just by existing they’re subjected to relentless violence and declared an enemy by the the vast majority of the population, they have every right to be angry.

[fredgallSOTY]

entitlement is truly the worst attitude one can have. everybody likes to bring up that #hellride jake phelps quote about it, and while its far too overused, it pertains to this situation

believing that skateboarding owes you anything, let alone money is kooky to start
putting down the person who rightfully beat you, desperately clinging to the hope you'll be the right-wing talking heads media darling for a couple hours is pathetic

previous stories about this person, such as calling the police to the skatepark on somebody drinking a beer, or bullying other girls within their skate scene show an aggressively privileged, cruel and out-of-touch mindset.

TL;DR:  taylor is a zionist kook and tim pool is bald

[pistachio]

Would having a trans/gender fluid bracket that skaters could enter prevent all arguments here?

[Giftedly Hater’d]

Would having a trans/gender fluid bracket that skaters could enter prevent all arguments here?

Only as much as separate but equal solved this country’s racial issues. 

[mamba]

Would having a trans/gender fluid bracket that skaters could enter prevent all arguments here?

Why not just separate contests based on sex and not gender? Anyways contest skating is reetarded . Who cares

Because to do so would further alienate trans athletes. Trans men are men. Trans women are women. And should be treated as such.

[conqueso]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

ok. so anyone who asks questions is driven by 'right wing outrage'

you realize how insane that is?

[close]

That literally isn't what I said but go off ig

All the furor around trans women participating in sports isn't actually based in reality. There isn't some fucking agenda where we transition to dunk on cis women for money or glory or whatever. If your questions around trans identities are focused on whether or not it's acceptable for them to compete in women's sports, you are literally regurgitating reactionary talking points

[close]

i did not give you an opinion about anyone or the issue even

did this really happen or not? how is it not based in reality?

using logic to express curiosity about something is not a 'reactionary talking point'

just be nice to people it'll work better

[close]

Don’t tell a trans person to be nice. Just by existing they’re subjected to relentless violence and declared an enemy by the the vast majority of the population, they have every right to be angry.

angry at me? for what?

i accept all people of different identities/race/gender and never gave a stance on this issue

so i am not sure how to respond

[PuffinMuffin]

As G.I.M.S. said above....(posted screen shots for pals that don't use Instagram)

She placed second in a MEN'S contest. She called the cops on people drinking at her local. She's transphobic. She vibes out other women who skate. She's a contest skater yet she can't ollie up a curb. She tagged alt-right assholes with an "outrage" story.

No one on SLAP is actually going to bat for her. It's a ruse. They get off on enforcing the status quo because they themselves haven't accomplished anything in life.

[Swithflip]

Expand Quote

As G.I.M.S. said above....(posted screen shots for pals that don't use Instagram)

[close]

She placed second in a MEN'S contest. She called the cops on people drinking at her local. She's transphobic. She vibes out other women who skate. She's a contest skater yet she can't ollie up a curb. She tagged alt-right assholes with an "outrage" story.

No one on SLAP is actually going to bat for her. It's a ruse. They get off on enforcing the status quo because they themselves haven't accomplished anything in life.

Wouui thats change my opinion about it. She really sucks.

[dofrenzy]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

i don't get how people are so confident with these topics and insensitive to people being confused, taking pause, questioning, etc... there's a lot of tricky things that will likely pop up. is it naive or wrong to ask what it means to be a woman in the context of these events? is there some type of definition or qualification or is it simply a matter of someone saying they are a woman when they register? wouldn't that leave open competing in different events as different sexes on different days? would it even be possible to identify as both a man and a woman and compete in both events on the same day. if being both sexes isn't a thing, why not? if someone says they are both who's to say they aren't. if competing at different events as different sexes on different days shouldn't be allowed, why not? do the organizers of the events have any say in these matters being the ones who are creating the categories or is the concept of male and female now essentially unregulated.

there's so many things that can pop up around these evolving understandings of gender and identity and i really don't get why people are being complete a holes about this in both directions. what happened to talking about things in rational ways.

[close]

I agree.  My wife and I had a nice discussion about this last night.  The best word to describe how I feel about this is conflicted.  Ultimately, I believe Taylor Silverman is in the right.  Maybe her tagging of a potential lynch mob of transphobic people was a little over the top but I’m sure her emotions were running high.

I am trying to put this in the context of history.  Even today, women are fighting for equal pay for equal work.  They only got the right to vote across the whole United States in 1920.  The proper way to introduce a married couple is still “Mr and Mrs. Insert-man’s-name-here”. 

I wonder how the 1st place winner feels.

I (we?) would LOVE to hear from a transitioned woman about how they feel about this situation.  For now, I’ll leave it at congratulations to Taylor Silverman on her 1st place win in the women’s competition.

[close]

Trans woman here to kindly say your post sucks.
Tagging a bunch of reactionary media figures will at best lead to the winner being harassed, and has a real likelihood of inciting violence against her/other trans skaters.
Taylor competed against a better skater and lost, shit happens. By saying she's the real 1st place winner, you're denying that trans women are actually women (yes this is transphobic).
Can you explain the stuff you added for historical context? I fail to see its relevance to this

I appreciate your response.  I get it about the tagging of reactionary media figures and addressed it in my post.  I am NOT going to pretend I have the right opinion or that I am “right”.  I am simply participating in the conversation

I see you quoted my bit about congratulating Taylor for first place.  That was inappropriate and I removed the comment before you posted your reply but you got to it first.

I have to admit that I don’t understand the word “woman”, so I looked it up in the dictionary (Merriam-Webster).I hope we can ALL appreciate that our languages are filled with gender bias and we probably do not have the correct terms to deal with this properly, but Since you stated that I am “denying that trans women are actually women” I looked it up.  Let’s keep it simple.   We’ll use the first definition in the dictionary:

noun
wom·​an | \ ˈwu̇-mən , especially Southern ˈwō- , or ˈwə-  \
plural wom​en \ ˈwi-mən  \
Definition
1a : an adult female person

adjective
fe·​male | \ ˈfē-ˌmāl  \
Definition (Entry 1 of 2)
1a(1) : of, relating to, or being the sex that typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs

So no, according to these definitions I think we can all agree that a trans woman is not a woman, unless of course I am missing something about transitioning that allows a a trans woman to produce eggs and carry babies.

But as I said, we are limited here by gender biased language and the fact that the word “woman” has multiple definitions, we could just use other definitions of the same word:

Woman
3 : distinctively feminine nature
 
Female
b : having a gender identity that is the opposite of male

So yes, according to these definitions I think we can all agree that a trans woman is a woman.

So, it seems our language has not evolved, except maybe by adding “different” definitions for the same word.  I doubt that a 1950s dictionary said that a female is someone who identifies as a female.

So here we are, bound by language and gender bias.  There is also the idea that there are more than 2 genders but we still are stuck with “man” and “woman” for the most part.

Also, please, accept my apology if I offended you in any way.  I am still learning and I try to be compassionate and understanding as much as possible, but I also suffer from bias that has been programmed in me by society and language; this thread has certainly educated me a bit more.

Regarding historical context, women egg-bearing humans have been fighting for rights (not just equal rights, but also human rights) for….well forever it seems.  My position is simply that it is unfair IF an egg-bearing individual enters a contest called “a contest for egg-bearers” and loses to a non-egg-bearing contestant.

But that is clearly not the case here; it was a women’s contest, and all the contestants were indeed women, so I concede that I am ultimately in the wrong here.

[lilboosie]

Waiting for someone to post in this thread with a "Ben Shapiro" username