Author Topic: Gear madness support thread  (Read 369250 times)

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mstuntbless

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2280 on: August 08, 2024, 09:47:38 PM »
^this was my next idea.

Xen

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2281 on: August 08, 2024, 10:50:12 PM »
@xen I would be switching from 5.8 to 5.6 standard. I honestly need to be talked out of it

@mstuntbless I'd second the smaller wheelbase with the trucks you have; I've bounced back and forth with 5.8s/5.6s (as well as withint other brands) and I've found that regardless of truck, 149s just feel better to me.

If you're stateside and can't shake it, I have some gently touched 5.6s I'll never ride again ;)

rikki

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2282 on: August 09, 2024, 02:49:28 AM »
I've been loving 149s/5.8s on a 8.38 deck recently. Such a solid-feeling setup. Previously rode 144s on 8.25 and 8.38 decks, and always felt that there's a tiny something that puts me off just a bit. With the current combo I can skate everything from flatground to bigger tranny, which is awesome as I want to skate everything (vert excluded).

Try it! Taking the risk is part of the madness.

BeachChicken

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2283 on: August 09, 2024, 07:13:02 AM »
Wait till you try 5.6 with 3 washers inside and realize that yes, maybe you can have it all!

Anyone else run 4 total washers per wheel? Either inside or outside I've grown to really hate wearing my axle ends down.

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2284 on: August 09, 2024, 07:36:53 AM »
Wait till you try 5.6 with 3 washers inside and realize that yes, maybe you can have it all!

Anyone else run 4 total washers per wheel? Either inside or outside I've grown to really hate wearing my axle ends down.

i need to get some thinner washers (were these ever called ‘speed rings’? am i just being a dumbass, is this a safety belt vs seat belt thing i’ve made up in my head?)

4 is a little hard for me to pull off, if they are the wrong thickness i run out of axle, and i’m more worried about the nut/wheel falling off.
i do run 2 on the inside, and wide wheels, on my 5.6s on an 8.25 deck.
the 5.6s are fine, and i’ve stuck with them for longer than i normally do. i am using forged plate 5.6s, and they don’t excite me the way the 6.1s did, but i have no business on a truck that big.

Xen

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2285 on: August 09, 2024, 09:27:40 AM »
I've been loving 149s/5.8s on a 8.38 deck recently. Such a solid-feeling setup. Previously rode 144s on 8.25 and 8.38 decks, and always felt that there's a tiny something that puts me off just a bit. With the current combo I can skate everything from flatground to bigger tranny, which is awesome as I want to skate everything (vert excluded).

Try it! Taking the risk is part of the madness.

I hovered around 8.25/8.3 forever, 148/149 back and forth and yeah, there's just 'something' off to me about 8.25" trucks vs 149s...(but I can easily skate either) and 'adding more speedrings' doesn't actually fix it other than visually for me. However, like 149s on 8.25, 148s on 8.125 (or even an 8 ) is the jam.

What's even more fuel is I skate royals and while the hangers are the same as other brands, the actual axles are shorter than a comparable competitors truck. So, a 149 royal actually fits better on 8.25/8.38 (or the 159s on the 8.62 I'm setting up) because the axle tip are ever so slightly tucked in so less bolt overhang...then of course, there is the taper on some decks...8.62 in the front....8.5 in the back, the mullets of decks.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2024, 10:41:19 AM by Xen »

CarcassToss

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2286 on: August 09, 2024, 09:39:08 AM »
I rode a Quasi proto once, 8.25 w/8.5 trucks and it tapers a lot in the back and it was fucking weird to look down at.

Mbrimson88

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2287 on: August 09, 2024, 06:47:55 PM »
Expand Quote
Wait till you try 5.6 with 3 washers inside and realize that yes, maybe you can have it all!

Anyone else run 4 total washers per wheel? Either inside or outside I've grown to really hate wearing my axle ends down.
[close]

i need to get some thinner washers (were these ever called ‘speed rings’? am i just being a dumbass, is this a safety belt vs seat belt thing i’ve made up in my head?)

4 is a little hard for me to pull off, if they are the wrong thickness i run out of axle, and i’m more worried about the nut/wheel falling off.
i do run 2 on the inside, and wide wheels, on my 5.6s on an 8.25 deck.
the 5.6s are fine, and i’ve stuck with them for longer than i normally do. i am using forged plate 5.6s, and they don’t excite me the way the 6.1s did, but i have no business on a truck that big.


Re different size washers, yes, I got a pack of 1000 or so from ebay a number of years ago now (from China) and they are significantly thinner, so I can fit four of those on the inside of each with some wheels with the axle nuts on safely, but I tend to stick with regular washers, usually three on the insides and they work just fine for everything for me.

As long as the nuts are never just finger tight, they all work well and the nut is never down past the end of the axle anyway, so all my trucks don't have issues in that regard, but also getting a box of axle nuts helped to ensure that I never have any issues there either.

I don't ever really bother with any washers on the outside - the nuts have a built in taper to them so they sit well on the bearings, but I know some people who always must have at least one washer on either side, so that is just another version of madness there too - not a worry to me.


Re "Speed rings" yes they were called this a lot back in the day and were even in marketing from skate brands as speed rings for a while too, although I haven't heard them called that for a while now.


Gone since 1988.  I talk too much about skateboards.  Sorry.

mstuntbless

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2288 on: August 09, 2024, 08:23:41 PM »
I rock two washers on the outside of my wheels trying to shrink my 5.8s lol. I’m going to take the suggestions posted here and go for a smaller wheelbase for my next board. I am on a frog 8.4 with a 14.25 and I kind of made a deal with myself that I can buy one skate product a month. So this month I needed shoes. I def want to get a short wb board but  too much switching messes me up! Gonna hold out till next month.

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2289 on: August 10, 2024, 01:25:08 AM »
I've been in 8.25 for a while now and I was like "I feel like an 8.5" (which I skated for a numbers of years and all good).
So I got a 8.5 and I think I'm hating it.
Don't want to setup a 8.25 since my pride would be hurt on the sense of "I couldn't manage an 8.5" which is pretty dumb but is how things are.
Most likely tomorrow I'll post on the setup threads that I out together an 8.25 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gosh I love skateboarding.
Sir, I'm going to politely, but firmly, ask you and your common sense to leave this establishment.

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2290 on: August 10, 2024, 07:16:46 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Wait till you try 5.6 with 3 washers inside and realize that yes, maybe you can have it all!

Anyone else run 4 total washers per wheel? Either inside or outside I've grown to really hate wearing my axle ends down.
[close]

i need to get some thinner washers (were these ever called ‘speed rings’? am i just being a dumbass, is this a safety belt vs seat belt thing i’ve made up in my head?)

4 is a little hard for me to pull off, if they are the wrong thickness i run out of axle, and i’m more worried about the nut/wheel falling off.
i do run 2 on the inside, and wide wheels, on my 5.6s on an 8.25 deck.
the 5.6s are fine, and i’ve stuck with them for longer than i normally do. i am using forged plate 5.6s, and they don’t excite me the way the 6.1s did, but i have no business on a truck that big.
[close]


Re different size washers, yes, I got a pack of 1000 or so from ebay a number of years ago now (from China) and they are significantly thinner, so I can fit four of those on the inside of each with some wheels with the axle nuts on safely, but I tend to stick with regular washers, usually three on the insides and they work just fine for everything for me.

As long as the nuts are never just finger tight, they all work well and the nut is never down past the end of the axle anyway, so all my trucks don't have issues in that regard, but also getting a box of axle nuts helped to ensure that I never have any issues there either.

I don't ever really bother with any washers on the outside - the nuts have a built in taper to them so they sit well on the bearings, but I know some people who always must have at least one washer on either side, so that is just another version of madness there too - not a worry to me.


Re "Speed rings" yes they were called this a lot back in the day and were even in marketing from skate brands as speed rings for a while too, although I haven't heard them called that for a while now.


makes sense, i’m old.

i should try the no washer on the outside, for some reason i just don’t, won’t.

CarcassToss

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2291 on: August 10, 2024, 01:14:38 PM »
I've been in 8.25 for a while now and I was like "I feel like an 8.5" (which I skated for a numbers of years and all good).
So I got a 8.5 and I think I'm hating it.
Don't want to setup a 8.25 since my pride would be hurt on the sense of "I couldn't manage an 8.5" which is pretty dumb but is how things are.
Most likely tomorrow I'll post on the setup threads that I out together an 8.25 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gosh I love skateboarding.

There are way more factors than width that would dictate if you like or hate a shape did you get one close to your normal? I find I like to keep the nose relatively the same and preferably wheelbase. I had a Sci Fi 8.25 I liked and got an AH 8.5 eagle right after I hated. The Eagle was noticeably shorter, shorter tail, nose slightly shorter as well. Had an 8.5 Quasi after that was 14.25, nice longer nose, measured closer to the Sci Fi and skated great.

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2292 on: August 11, 2024, 12:42:06 AM »
Expand Quote
I've been in 8.25 for a while now and I was like "I feel like an 8.5" (which I skated for a numbers of years and all good).
So I got a 8.5 and I think I'm hating it.
Don't want to setup a 8.25 since my pride would be hurt on the sense of "I couldn't manage an 8.5" which is pretty dumb but is how things are.
Most likely tomorrow I'll post on the setup threads that I out together an 8.25 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gosh I love skateboarding.
[close]

There are way more factors than width that would dictate if you like or hate a shape did you get one close to your normal? I find I like to keep the nose relatively the same and preferably wheelbase. I had a Sci Fi 8.25 I liked and got an AH 8.5 eagle right after I hated. The Eagle was noticeably shorter, shorter tail, nose slightly shorter as well. Had an 8.5 Quasi after that was 14.25, nice longer nose, measured closer to the Sci Fi and skated great.
I'd say that weight was a factor in here and lenght also, that 8.5 was 32.1 which felt way too much after being in 31.6 for a while. Pretty sure that the Toy one I just setup (8.25 x 31.98 x 14.25) will feel great.
Sir, I'm going to politely, but firmly, ask you and your common sense to leave this establishment.

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2293 on: August 11, 2024, 07:41:27 AM »
Expand Quote
I've been in 8.25 for a while now and I was like "I feel like an 8.5" (which I skated for a numbers of years and all good).
So I got a 8.5 and I think I'm hating it.
Don't want to setup a 8.25 since my pride would be hurt on the sense of "I couldn't manage an 8.5" which is pretty dumb but is how things are.
Most likely tomorrow I'll post on the setup threads that I out together an 8.25 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gosh I love skateboarding.
[close]

There are way more factors than width that would dictate if you like or hate a shape did you get one close to your normal? I find I like to keep the nose relatively the same and preferably wheelbase. I had a Sci Fi 8.25 I liked and got an AH 8.5 eagle right after I hated. The Eagle was noticeably shorter, shorter tail, nose slightly shorter as well. Had an 8.5 Quasi after that was 14.25, nice longer nose, measured closer to the Sci Fi and skated great.
The 8.5 eagle measured a hair under 8.4 if I remember correctly. The shape reminds me of the Baker 8.475 which has similar dimensions but a bit flatter. Been awhile on both of those but i remember flip trips being very consistent but it was so much harder to pop higher that it wasn't worth it.

BeachChicken

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2294 on: August 11, 2024, 09:03:07 AM »
I personally don't love that eagle shape. It's 8.38 with 14.2 and 31.8. Even the Baker 8.25 feels better to me somehow.

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2295 on: August 11, 2024, 09:39:39 AM »
I personally don't love that eagle shape. It's 8.38 with 14.2 and 31.8.

Someone else who agrees with me. IMHO, the DLX 8.5 and 8.38 are the same shape, with just slightly different dimensions. I hate both of them. Meanwhile the DLX 8.25/14.38 and 8.75/14.62 a super close to the same shape...and I love both of those. How surprising.
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mstuntbless

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2296 on: August 11, 2024, 10:54:30 AM »
I also agree^ if we are talking about the same shape. I had a dlx 8.5x31.8x14.25 and it was not even close to the measurements. More like an 8.25 and it was ridiculously tapered.

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2297 on: August 11, 2024, 11:09:15 AM »
People love it tho so it stays as is. I can only imagine someone going from the normal 14.5wb 8.5 to that choad shape and being really confused at how off it felt. I've legit never had a good session on one even after giving it a few weeks.

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2298 on: August 12, 2024, 04:55:00 PM »
What truck is suited better for someone that doesn’t have a lot of power in their popping foot? Injuries have made it hard to pop my board. Should I be looking at trucks that pop fast and are light (Thunder hollow lights, lower truck, extend wheelbase) or something that lightens the pop? (ace/indy)

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2299 on: August 12, 2024, 06:02:59 PM »
What truck is suited better for someone that doesn’t have a lot of power in their popping foot? Injuries have made it hard to pop my board. Should I be looking at trucks that pop fast and are light (Thunder hollow lights, lower truck, extend wheelbase) or something that lightens the pop? (ace/indy)


I think it is more down to a lower angle of kicks on the board - more mellow board, than the trucks, but in saying that, Indy work well for me with almost everything, compared to Thunder, Venture or Ace (or others) but that might also be because I am way more used to Indy standard trucks in general, even though I do have all the other trucks on boards anyway, including forged baseplates, ti or hollow axles, smaller to wider options, etc.

Lighter doesn't always mean better, but for the most part, Indy forged baseplates / hollow hangers might be easier in the weight department for some people too.  Whatever the reason, something that you know has worked for you can also be the easiest option, eg if you are used to skating a certain brand of truck, that is where I would start, over getting into other options you may not have really skated a whole lot in the past, which might not be too hard to adapt to, but can sometimes be frustrating in getting to that point.

For me though - ankle injuries have meant that having more mellow kicks, or a more mellow tail in particular means I find things way easier to be happy and just do what I do, not really thinking about getting a lot of height from ollies, and more just enjoying rolling around, but still pop if or when needed, more so than ghost popping everything on a steeper tail.

Others might have different options, but that is my take on it anyway.




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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2300 on: August 12, 2024, 06:21:06 PM »
What truck is suited better for someone that doesn’t have a lot of power in their popping foot? Injuries have made it hard to pop my board. Should I be looking at trucks that pop fast and are light (Thunder hollow lights, lower truck, extend wheelbase) or something that lightens the pop? (ace/indy)
I would suggest a lower truck over a truck that shortens your overall wheelbase. I hesitated to try Thunders after spending 15 years on independent and ace, but my flip tricks have never felt more solid (I’m using the inverted edition 148s with riptides and ace low/high mix hards.)

BeachChicken

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2301 on: August 12, 2024, 06:42:14 PM »
I ruptured every ligament in my ankle in 2021 and it was rough getting back on the board. These days I skate Indy's or Ventures and think that the full year of rehab helped me get better pop than before my injury.

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2302 on: August 12, 2024, 07:27:06 PM »
Expand Quote
What truck is suited better for someone that doesn’t have a lot of power in their popping foot? Injuries have made it hard to pop my board. Should I be looking at trucks that pop fast and are light (Thunder hollow lights, lower truck, extend wheelbase) or something that lightens the pop? (ace/indy)
[close]


I think it is more down to a lower angle of kicks on the board - more mellow board, than the trucks, but in saying that, Indy work well for me with almost everything, compared to Thunder, Venture or Ace (or others) but that might also be because I am way more used to Indy standard trucks in general, even though I do have all the other trucks on boards anyway, including forged baseplates, ti or hollow axles, smaller to wider options, etc.

Lighter doesn't always mean better, but for the most part, Indy forged baseplates / hollow hangers might be easier in the weight department for some people too.  Whatever the reason, something that you know has worked for you can also be the easiest option, eg if you are used to skating a certain brand of truck, that is where I would start, over getting into other options you may not have really skated a whole lot in the past, which might not be too hard to adapt to, but can sometimes be frustrating in getting to that point.

For me though - ankle injuries have meant that having more mellow kicks, or a more mellow tail in particular means I find things way easier to be happy and just do what I do, not really thinking about getting a lot of height from ollies, and more just enjoying rolling around, but still pop if or when needed, more so than ghost popping everything on a steeper tail.

Others might have different options, but that is my take on it anyway.

oh yeah, definitely found that I prefer mellow boards on any truck. That is a given. I would say Ace is my home base, but been on Thunders for almost a year. Thunders pop feels better but flip tricks felt better on the ace (more consistent) So not entirely sure where to go from here.

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2303 on: August 12, 2024, 10:30:56 PM »
What truck is suited better for someone that doesn’t have a lot of power in their popping foot? Injuries have made it hard to pop my board. Should I be looking at trucks that pop fast and are light (Thunder hollow lights, lower truck, extend wheelbase) or something that lightens the pop? (ace/indy)

I broke my leg (fib) just above ankle in early 2019. There was also significant ligament damage. Two surgeries. Lot of internal hardware. Off board for a year. Had to learn to walk, let alone skate again. Yes, some of it is age, but I will never again skate the same way I did before the injury. My ankle is far less flexible than it once was, and not as strong. I am regular foot, and my left foot is the one I jacked. So, that means nollie and switch stuff took the brunt of it. I tinkered with my set-ups pre injury, but the real Madness for me did not start until I was cleared to start skating again. And the Madness happened for good reason: (1) My body no longer functioned and moved the same way it used to, and (2) I needed/wanted to capitalize on whatever incremental advantages equipment tweaks had to offer at this stage of the game. This is literally to say I was not same person (physically) as I was pre-injury, so maybe that also necessitated a change in equipment to better match the “new” me?? Enter the Madness.

During that time I literally tried everything from 7.75 decks with venture lows and 50mm wheels to 9" shaped decks with standard 169s and big-ass wheels. And guess what? I ended up almost back on the exact same set-up I had pre-injury (with some minor tweaks).

Long time readers of this thread (and the DLX thread) will know that I like flatter decks. That is because of the injury. Flatter decks offer me two advantages. First, I don't have to bend/flex my ankle as much just standing on the board, let alone doing tricks. Second, flatter decks help avoid ghost pop (yes, you can also adjusting via truck height and wheel size, too), and with taller/steeper kicks, you need more power to get a good snap. But too flat, and too low, and it's like trying to ollie on just a deck on the carpet with no trucks on it…so you need some power there, too, to really get off the ground. The key is to find your optimal middle ground between steepness and height. For this exact reason, I ride Indy Forged trucks. 53.5mm tall. Right in the middle. Not as high as standard Indy, not as low as others. It's a good middle ground. I ride 53mm wheels, because they are also a nice height/pop compromise. Wheelbase (deck and truck) also comes into play here, too. Oddly, deck width also came into play for me, too. Narrower boards had me more on my toes (e.g. lots of ankle use). With a wider deck, I could be a little more flat-footed, with less strain on ankle. These days I go back and forth between an 8.75 and an 8.25, depending on the mood.

As to your original question, I do not think there is a magic bullet that is applicable to all people in similar situations. You will just have to embrace the Madness and find out what combination of kick steepness, board height, weight, etc. works best for you. That said, flatter and lower is probably going to be your friend.   

Last, if you know you have an injury (like mine), that will forever impact how your body works, the hardest pill to swallow is adjusting your expectations. If you’re lucky enough to skate long enough, age will eventually force you to do that, too.

EDIT: When my orthopedic surgeon cleared me to skate again, he said something I will never forget. "You no longer have any restrictions, but you will certainly have some limitations. What exactly those are, and how to manage them, is for you to discover." Good life advice there, too. I wish you the best of luck with your...discoveries.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2024, 07:48:12 AM by Sedition »
"When life goes bad, make it go wronger"  -Gerwer

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2304 on: August 13, 2024, 12:12:05 AM »
Thanks for the solid advice. These thunders aren’t doing it for me so time to experiment. That being said, how do Indy and ace compare pop wise?

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2305 on: August 13, 2024, 07:35:24 AM »
Thanks for the solid advice. These thunders aren’t doing it for me so time to experiment. That being said, how do Indy and ace compare pop wise?

How does vanilla ice cream compare to chocolate and strawberry ? Depends on who you ask.

For me, forged Indys are the best truck ever made. Hard stop. Your mileage, however, may vary.

Also, I clarified (e.g. edited) a few things in my above longer post. Might want to re-read it. I wish you luck with all this.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2024, 07:51:46 AM by Sedition »
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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2306 on: August 13, 2024, 08:07:45 AM »
have been wanting to own a pair of every brand of trucks
the only ones i havent tried that i want to are slappy and lurpiv
i really dont have money to be buying more trucks though :(
but then i think about it and really i think i actually like the way thunder and venture are more than indy and ace... so why dont i just stay with those brands? i dont skate hardly any transition anyway... dont think thats gonna change too mcuh unless i move or something

i started sakting small wheels and i didnt feel like i was sakting way more tech or anything. i went back to the big wheels and i like it way more so i am just stayin with that from now on too.

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2307 on: August 13, 2024, 10:06:25 AM »
have been wanting to own a pair of every brand of trucks
the only ones i havent tried that i want to are slappy and lurpiv
i really dont have money to be buying more trucks though :(
but then i think about it and really i think i actually like the way thunder and venture are more than indy and ace... so why dont i just stay with those brands? i dont skate hardly any transition anyway... dont think thats gonna change too mcuh unless i move or something

i started sakting small wheels and i didnt feel like i was sakting way more tech or anything. i went back to the big wheels and i like it way more so i am just stayin with that from now on too.

As someone that pretty much does (I am not dipping on Lurpivs, as I don't have a need), it's not worth it :P I've a BOX of trucks, all brands and sizes, configs...

What's helped my madness is when I want a thunder/venture feel I go Royal (when I want less wheelbite and more turn but still stable), when I want ACE/Indy I go Slappy (better turn than thunder/vent, taller, better grind/clearance, has that camps feel).

It's odd that I've landed on fringe trucks but they both fill that need (had I not bought them I'd have never known, however). But then again, I prefer STFs over Spits...I just like that glassy slide.

If you don't NEED an ACE turn (I don't) then go for Indy, if you hate how heavy (or slow) indy are, get slappys. I don't need as much turn as ACE gives (or Lurpiv...I'm not Oski skating heavy tranny)..

Slappy has quickly become my go to, they're very close to how theeve feel. And it's only when I ride them for a a bit that I feel the limitations of royals turn in comparison to that slappy/indy style turn.

BeachChicken

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2308 on: August 13, 2024, 11:52:45 AM »
I've had a sorta similar journey through my truck preferences.

I actually really like Indy cast hollows. IDK how they work bc on paper I shouldn't like them, but if I put the blue barrel bushings in I don't really need to crank them and they're stable enough (just barely). I'm used to how to pinch them and the pop has a good balance of heft and lightness with the heft coming more from the height. Ventures give me a similar pop feel with the heft coming more from the WB extension. Ventures end up more stable with better pinch as expected, but I feel once I am approaching 54 wheels they do get a bit too hefty for my tastes. If I was rocking 52's or 53's I could really pick one over the other on any day and it wouldn't matter.

I also do love Thunders, but after trying them out recently realized that the pop feel is substantially different from the 2 above and that I need to use the pocket more. This is a bit weird to get used to for fakie tricks as it puts my foot closer to a point that makes the trucks lean more and can throw off timing. They are best for manual tricks for me and a reliable back-up, but right now I'm just kinda feeling the general pop I get from Indy cast hollows or the Venture V cast so I'm going with it and accepting any small nuances.

Xen

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Re: Gear madness support thread
« Reply #2309 on: August 13, 2024, 12:24:47 PM »
It's been mentioned a couple of times here, so you and I are not the first, fakie tricks on thunders (and i guess switch for some depending on where you shift/hold your weight) are tricky compared to say a venture in terms of forgiveness (same for royals); it's all subjective and based on what your needs and style are. Do I *need* a thunder vs a venture? Personally no. I'm not good enough for it to matter and both provide enough turn for me.

I've a love/hate with thunders as I love how nimble/agile they are (but not good enough to land bolts everytime to avoid wheebite and can't/choose not to ride super tight), nothing comes close to them in that regard.

Slappys are the 'nimble' ACE/Indy vs super turny/slow carvy. Royals are just a quicker intial turning venture.

We could all skate any of them, anywhere, if we had too especially someone not riding 100% bowls or who skates supertight.