Author Topic: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?  (Read 5055 times)

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yourbreakfsat

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Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« on: June 18, 2022, 09:36:40 PM »
Hello nerds, it's time for another political thread but also a topic I've been thinking about for a long time.

Indy's Iron Cross logo was cancelled for its relationship to Nazis, and generally hate symbols are banned or shunned from skateboard graphics. That being said, why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?



















Imperial Japan flew under the Rising Sun flag during its colonization expansion during the 1930s and WW2, and allied with this Axis powers (Nazi Germany and Italy being the other two primary members). During this time, they committed so many war crimes and crimes against humanity that even literal Nazis tried to stop them. This includes, but not limited to, genocide, rape houses, sport killing, human experimentation, cannibalism, and biological warfare. Two officers even had a contest to see who could kill more people with a sword, which Japanese media publicized as war heroism.

Why does this symbol get a pass, especially in skateboarding? I asked a few friends about this and they believe that it may be due to a lack of education of Japan's war crimes under this flag, with one of them only learning about it a couple years ago. Apparently US schools go over Nazi Germany in great detail, but barely cover Japan in the same time period. It may also be a case of Asian romanticism, and this flag being seen as "cool Japan thing."

I always found this double standard to be strange. If hate symbols should be taken out, it should be all of them instead of only a select few. I don't find the argument of "Japan still uses it, so it's okay" valid as Germany still uses the Iron Cross but this symbol has been basically removed from skateboarding.

What do you think? I do take this a bit personally due to my ethnicity, but maybe there's something I'm missing.

Also if you feel strongly about this, this isn't a call to harass and cancel brands or people that use this flag. I am only using these images as examples.

cucktard

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2022, 09:58:29 PM »
As far as I know, it doesnít get a Ďpassí, at least on SLAP. Itís been criticized on here whenever it comes up.
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Tear Up a Trick

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SaySo

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2022, 10:12:41 PM »
It's also a very sensitive issue in Asia, even in Japan. Many people in Japan tend to associate it with the far right wing, but it is still seen far more often than I'm comfortable with.

That being said, a lot of people here are fundamentally unaware/ignorant of the atrocities that occurred in WWII, ostensibly in their name, because the standardized education system is very whitewashed and textbooks have been chosen for political purposes (many of which paint Japan as the victim - don't get me started on the f*cked up mental gymnastics one would have to do to create books like that.) So they don't see what the fuss is about when people get upset about the Kyokujitsu Ki rising sun flag.

Granted, the current version in use by the JSDF forces is slightly different (the sun is shifted to the left, not dead center like the war flag), so an argument of semantics can occur saying that "it's not the same flag."

On a related note, I've seen people wearing actual nazi insignias/uniforms, and hanging nazi flags in stores being blissfully unaware of how utterly wrong it is. I saw a young woman wearing suspenders (braces for those who speaks the Queen's), with swastika (not the Buddhist kind), and iron cross buttons, 18 hole Docs with red and white laces. I asked her point blank why she was doing it and she said "because it's cute."

Long story short, the rising sun should be retired to the dustbin of history.
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Mean salto

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2022, 10:19:35 PM »
A) Because America did a bombs and doesn't really want people to look into it.
B) Because racism people see big Germans and their architecture and machines and are still scared but see Japanese as little nerdy salarymen who have cartoons on everything and just live to work and drink.
C) there's still a bit of grey area with the rising sun flag as people still rep it in Japan (altho it's being seen more and more negatively) and unlike nazi shit being completely banned in Germany Japan still shows it in a positive light regarding history and is still used in the navy
D) skateboarders are stupid and just think it looks cool

jgonzalez

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2022, 10:30:04 PM »
Iím tired of seeing this hate symbol


nothing's been the since same

Sick_McCrank_

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2022, 10:47:04 PM »
Japan Never reflected well on their imperial past. Their navy still uses the rising sun flag afaik.
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Gray Imp Sausage Metal

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2022, 11:41:51 PM »
As far as I know, it doesnít get a Ďpassí, at least on SLAP. Itís been criticized on here whenever it comes up.
this! I've always criticized it, even before I was on SLAP.

Devils advocate though: non-Japanese people don't understand the severity of it, just like Japanese people don't understand the severity of the swazi
(which doesn't make it right, but I'd be willing to bet Hosoi or Muska didn't have a single clue about its historical meaning whereas Jason Jesse certainly knew what he was doing with his edge lord steeze)
« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 12:10:17 AM by Gray Imp Sausage Metal »

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veritas

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2022, 11:49:13 PM »
Everything offends me so this should too

HeapsCool

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2022, 12:24:36 AM »
Iím tired of seeing this hate symbol



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fernando the skater

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2022, 01:11:33 AM »
Hosoi was the main proponent of the rising sun as a way to reflect Japanese heritage back in the early 80s. The Muska and DGK being take-offs of his Sims design, as was a Penny board under his name. It was pointed out to him that people in Korea were offended by the Penny design, and he hasn't used the red and white design since.

It can be argued that the red and black Hosoi deck pictured above takes cues from rising sun, but it has a cross on top, wrong colours, different shafts of light. I'd give him a pass.

Mean salto

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2022, 01:26:28 AM »
Hosoi was the main proponent of the rising sun as a way to reflect Japanese heritage back in the early 80s. The Muska and DGK being take-offs of his Sims design, as was a Penny board under his name. It was pointed out to him that people in Korea were offended by the Penny design, and he hasn't used the red and white design since.

It can be argued that the red and black Hosoi deck pictured above takes cues from rising sun, but it has a cross on top, wrong colours, different shafts of light. I'd give him a pass.
Was still seeing rising sun hosoi boards for years after he said he wasn't doing them anymore. New stock too. Sold out now but last time this was brought up (couple months max) this was still available https://selectskateshop.com/collections/hosoi-skateboards/products/copy-of-hosoi-rising-sun-logo-t-shirt-white hosoi's a weird one tho on one hand I'd say just changing the colours isn't enough because everyone knows what it represents but then it could be argued that with hosoi it's got a seperate meaning within skateboarding. Guess same argument for Indy.

SaySo

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2022, 02:00:11 AM »
Hello nerds, it's time for another political thread but also a topic I've been thinking about for a long time.

Indy's Iron Cross logo was cancelled for its relationship to Nazis, and generally hate symbols are banned or shunned from skateboard graphics. That being said, why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?



















Imperial Japan flew under the Rising Sun flag during its colonization expansion during the 1930s and WW2, and allied with this Axis powers (Nazi Germany and Italy being the other two primary members). During this time, they committed so many war crimes and crimes against humanity that even literal Nazis tried to stop them. This includes, but not limited to, genocide, rape houses, sport killing, human experimentation, cannibalism, and biological warfare. Two officers even had a contest to see who could kill more people with a sword, which Japanese media publicized as war heroism.

Why does this symbol get a pass, especially in skateboarding? I asked a few friends about this and they believe that it may be due to a lack of education of Japan's war crimes under this flag, with one of them only learning about it a couple years ago. Apparently US schools go over Nazi Germany in great detail, but barely cover Japan in the same time period. It may also be a case of Asian romanticism, and this flag being seen as "cool Japan thing."

I always found this double standard to be strange. If hate symbols should be taken out, it should be all of them instead of only a select few. I don't find the argument of "Japan still uses it, so it's okay" valid as Germany still uses the Iron Cross but this symbol has been basically removed from skateboarding.

What do you think? I do take this a bit personally due to my ethnicity, but maybe there's something I'm missing.

Also if you feel strongly about this, this isn't a call to harass and cancel brands or people that use this flag. I am only using these images as examples.

The Japanese/Rising Sun could also have "gotten a pass" or overlooked simply because [trigger alert]...racism?

The victims in Asia were primarily, Asian, so perhaps Asians killing other Asians just didn't (don't) garner the same amount of anger/disgust, as the genocide of people who were at the time, somewhat "white-adjacent" in Europe. Non-white casualties weren't (and still continue to not be) "worth as much."

Even the murders of Russians (of which conservative estimates cite around civilians 10 million were killed), Roma, and homosexuals, etc., who were also slaughtered by the nazis, weren't really covered in my primary and secondary educations in California when discussing WWII.

I mean, up until relatively recently, the US didn't even turn an introspective eye to look at the MJ man in the mirror and own up to incarcerating their own citizens in WWII. That was barely a footnote in the unit about WWII when I was in high school. "oh yeah, by the way the Japanese Americans were put into 'relocation camps.' But enough of that. Now, for the next unit; the golden age of the fifties!"

Basically, what we are taught in school, and I suppose for a large part every standardized education system, is in essence, a PR/propaganda machine for whatever state we grow up in and and the overall social/political/economic system values that underlie that state.

Anyhow, that might be another reason (of many) why not as much focus has been placed on the rising sun flag and Japanese atrocities in WWII.
"I've got a friend of polar nature, and it's all peace. You and I seek similar stars, but can't sit at the same feast."

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fernando the skater

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2022, 02:04:13 AM »
Expand Quote
Hosoi was the main proponent of the rising sun as a way to reflect Japanese heritage back in the early 80s. The Muska and DGK being take-offs of his Sims design, as was a Penny board under his name. It was pointed out to him that people in Korea were offended by the Penny design, and he hasn't used the red and white design since.

It can be argued that the red and black Hosoi deck pictured above takes cues from rising sun, but it has a cross on top, wrong colours, different shafts of light. I'd give him a pass.
[close]
Was still seeing rising sun hosoi boards for years after he said he wasn't doing them anymore. New stock too. Sold out now but last time this was brought up (couple months max) this was still available https://selectskateshop.com/collections/hosoi-skateboards/products/copy-of-hosoi-rising-sun-logo-t-shirt-white hosoi's a weird one tho on one hand I'd say just changing the colours isn't enough because everyone knows what it represents but then it could be argued that with hosoi it's got a seperate meaning within skateboarding. Guess same argument for Indy.

If in doubt, blame Brad Dorfman. That usually holds true...

ok boomer

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2022, 06:02:33 AM »
Probably climate change

manysnakes

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2022, 06:06:51 AM »
Everything offends me so this should too
This is not my SOTY. I'm telling my kids there was no SOTY for 2021

SneakySecrets

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2022, 06:10:18 AM »
Expand Quote
Iím tired of seeing this hate symbol


[close]

The only country to ever nuke another country.

Can we please stop posting the flag of terrorist war criminals?  Itís just bad taste.
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j....soy.....

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2022, 07:21:28 AM »
Holmes already let it goÖ..so itís goneÖ

Vds

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2022, 07:38:39 AM »
Even Hosoi mentioned (i think on nine club) that he is never gonna use it again , even he mentioned that some countries in Asia is not allowed to sell it


Mean salto

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2022, 08:10:41 AM »
Even Hosoi mentioned (i think on nine club) that he is never gonna use it again , even he mentioned that some countries in Asia is not allowed to sell it
Yeah this was all around embarrassing. 4 dummies like oh wow had no idea crazy. Then hosoi said it and proceeded to do fuck all about it. Years later theres still plenty of new shit available with his name on a rising sun

The Ghost of Lenny Kirk

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2022, 08:38:44 AM »
I donít think itís widely known as a hate symbol in pop culture and probably why itís still prevalent.

pro club blanks

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2022, 09:00:19 AM »
Yeah its just straight up ignorance

People dont know enough about Japan in general and think its just a widely accepted and universal symbol for Japan.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 09:09:21 AM by pro club blanks »

Coastal Fever

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2022, 09:16:41 AM »
An old buddy of mine, white guy, went by NinjaSteve online and has a rising sun half sleeve tattoo.  To be fair, they were different times back then.

skate_or_dingus

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2022, 09:26:42 AM »
 Unit 731 was NOT wavy, dude.

Willie

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2022, 09:31:27 AM »

livin on a speyer

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2022, 09:36:24 AM »
Rising sun was also quite popular with bands in the 80's. Shirts, headbands etc

SneakySecrets

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2022, 09:38:16 AM »
It does look pretty cool
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cucktard

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2022, 10:02:00 AM »
When we talk about it not getting a ‘pass’ let’s clarify that that is in ‘western’ cultures.
Eastern countries that were colonized by Japan have varying negative reactions to the rising sun, the worst of them seeing it like we see swastikas here.

Within Japan, as others said, it has very right-wing connotations, and functions pretty much like the confederate flag does in the US. The same kind of people use it, with the same kind of reasoning.

Most people tend to be wary of it, but there are kind of right-wing nationalist sentiments in some areas of skateboarding and music here which are a bit uncomfortable.

One of them unfortunately being the Skull Skates store and associated crew in Japan, who tend to commiserate with bikers and kinda Uyoku punks, and have released a Japan only Skull Skates t-shirt with the rising sun on it.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CePt8Cbpo_S/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

I’ve been to the shop a few times, and the neighboring bowl. The Japanese shop owner has always been nice enough, but I’ve gotten weird vibes from some of the crew there.

I’ve written PD about this, but never heard anything.
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Craig Lutzka

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2022, 10:06:10 AM »







SmilingBoy

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Re: Why does the Rising Sun flag get a pass?
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2022, 10:09:18 AM »
Probably due to general lack of education about the flag. Most Americans probably see the rising sun flag and just think Japan, and not the context surrounding the flag.