Author Topic: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues  (Read 3050 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Landmine

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
  • Rep: 148
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2022, 09:23:23 PM »
I was actually putting together a digital zine about socialism/labor, hacker culture, art/music, and skateboarding.

I did some really cool interviews but ultimately never finished it due to life taking a turn.

Anyone interested in contributing some writing, photos, art? OR get involved in doing some graphic design/page layout to help finish off the existing content?

Pop me a PM if you're interested or just want to learn more.

I'm talentless but totally down to buy a few copies

therealnod

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Rep: 13
  • Brevity is
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2022, 11:09:44 PM »
Sent a pm. That Captcha is pretty ferocious. I must be missing something.

newguy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 478
  • Rep: 30
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2022, 11:49:33 PM »
I was actually putting together a digital zine about socialism/labor, hacker culture, art/music, and skateboarding.

I did some really cool interviews but ultimately never finished it due to life taking a turn.

Anyone interested in contributing some writing, photos, art? OR get involved in doing some graphic design/page layout to help finish off the existing content?

Pop me a PM if you're interested or just want to learn more.

iím so down for that, Iíve always wanted to illustrate something

newguy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 478
  • Rep: 30
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2022, 11:54:43 PM »
And of course lets not forget today is the day of the revolution in Cuba. 68 years and still resisting chuds and pushing through sanctions!

therealnod

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Rep: 13
  • Brevity is
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2022, 12:31:50 AM »
And of course lets not forget today is the day of the revolution in Cuba. 68 years and still resisting chuds and pushing through sanctions!
Impressive how a tiny island just off the coast of Florida can survive under the thumb of an empire that declares their economic system doesn't work anywhere. It's telling that as American influence dwindles in South America they are freeing themselves of the grip of conservative American influence. It's possible that Latin America will become the new seat of democracy at some point. We'll just have to survive to see it happen. It's a longshot and I'm rooting for it.

newguy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 478
  • Rep: 30
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2022, 12:53:36 AM »
Expand Quote
And of course lets not forget today is the day of the revolution in Cuba. 68 years and still resisting chuds and pushing through sanctions!
[close]
Impressive how a tiny island just off the coast of Florida can survive under the thumb of an empire that declares their economic system doesn't work anywhere. It's telling that as American influence dwindles in South America they are freeing themselves of the grip of conservative American influence. It's possible that Latin America will become the new seat of democracy at some point. We'll just have to survive to see it happen. It's a longshot and I'm rooting for it.

Yep yep yep, and Cuba has some of the most advanced cancer treatments in the world and managed to develop a treatment for alzheimer and Parkinsonís currently in Phase III. They literally have so many doctors that theyíre sending them all over latin america to help. Theyíre also really doing great work on rights for the LGBTQ+ community and non traditional families, really a great country.


DaleSr

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 3257
  • Rep: 942
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2022, 08:51:17 AM »
And of course lets not forget today is the day of the revolution in Cuba. 68 years and still resisting chuds and pushing through sanctions!

RIP Fidel, the CIA never got him

El Fapinator

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 3012
  • Rep: -248
  • (0_o) whatever dog you probably suck at it
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2022, 10:01:41 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Centrist anarchism is a right wing psyop. Friedman and Rothbard were paid out the ass to promote that kind of ideology and to derail the term libertarian. Any sort of laissez-faire type political inclination strikes me as idealism. There won't be peace in such a situation, only a violent conquest, anarchist revolution seems to me an alley-oop for a violent regression into fascism, because those forces do not go away post-revolution.
[close]
Yeah Iím going to call bs on this opinion, when I had my heart set with anarchism and left leaning views it became a trap for political apathy, lol.

Iíve had myself in the stew at nonviolent protests in Seattle and Portland as well IMF/WTO in DC.

During this time I was unaware of psychosis I was going through I was sizing up cops and not saying a word, dead staring at cops and their 9mm like if you move in aggressive manner Iím grabbing that 9 and blasting, this is for hours straight my eyes telling my intentions.

I guess my views have lost non of itís potency just Iím jaded towards either side hence the centrist views, both sides are trash including libertarian party.
[close]

This is a thread about leftism dude, youíre just a run of the mill neo-lib  ::)

Ok Iíd like to see you at a demonstration holding it down. Neo lib as you say, nah Iím just jaded about both parties hence my apathy/nihilism towards change.
Dueces Bitch's

Uncle Flea

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 3596
  • Rep: 773
    • Aural Buthcheryers avatar image
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2022, 10:18:52 AM »
I apologize to the revolution for not wanting to get a job.

Iím a kook but I have a drís note
Plz stop killing each other
(A)pl(E)




Freelancevagrant

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 2467
  • Rep: 1218
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2022, 10:20:50 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Centrist anarchism is a right wing psyop. Friedman and Rothbard were paid out the ass to promote that kind of ideology and to derail the term libertarian. Any sort of laissez-faire type political inclination strikes me as idealism. There won't be peace in such a situation, only a violent conquest, anarchist revolution seems to me an alley-oop for a violent regression into fascism, because those forces do not go away post-revolution.
[close]
Yeah Iím going to call bs on this opinion, when I had my heart set with anarchism and left leaning views it became a trap for political apathy, lol.

Iíve had myself in the stew at nonviolent protests in Seattle and Portland as well IMF/WTO in DC.

During this time I was unaware of psychosis I was going through I was sizing up cops and not saying a word, dead staring at cops and their 9mm like if you move in aggressive manner Iím grabbing that 9 and blasting, this is for hours straight my eyes telling my intentions.

I guess my views have lost non of itís potency just Iím jaded towards either side hence the centrist views, both sides are trash including libertarian party.
[close]

This is a thread about leftism dude, youíre just a run of the mill neo-lib  ::)
[close]

Ok Iíd like to see you at a demonstration holding it down. Neo lib as you say, nah Iím just jaded about both parties hence my apathy/nihilism towards change.

I 100% agree with @newguy and @texascybergothic
Your apathy is a great way of telling everyone you never actually gave a shit or understood what the core tenants of libertarian socialism actually are.
Please keep kooking me for talking shit about blading on a SKATEBOARDING message board

Abyss1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 3106
  • Rep: 105
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2022, 10:47:00 AM »

SR ACF

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
  • Rep: -246
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2022, 10:52:56 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Centrist anarchism is a right wing psyop. Friedman and Rothbard were paid out the ass to promote that kind of ideology and to derail the term libertarian. Any sort of laissez-faire type political inclination strikes me as idealism. There won't be peace in such a situation, only a violent conquest, anarchist revolution seems to me an alley-oop for a violent regression into fascism, because those forces do not go away post-revolution.
[close]
Yeah Iím going to call bs on this opinion, when I had my heart set with anarchism and left leaning views it became a trap for political apathy, lol.

Iíve had myself in the stew at nonviolent protests in Seattle and Portland as well IMF/WTO in DC.

During this time I was unaware of psychosis I was going through I was sizing up cops and not saying a word, dead staring at cops and their 9mm like if you move in aggressive manner Iím grabbing that 9 and blasting, this is for hours straight my eyes telling my intentions.

I guess my views have lost non of itís potency just Iím jaded towards either side hence the centrist views, both sides are trash including libertarian party.
[close]

This is a thread about leftism dude, youíre just a run of the mill neo-lib  ::)
[close]

Ok Iíd like to see you at a demonstration holding it down. Neo lib as you say, nah Iím just jaded about both parties hence my apathy/nihilism towards change.

Both parties? Dude I hope you're not referring to the two majority parties in the US and thereby implying that one of them is in any way leftist. You got a long way to go I'd that's where your knowledge is at. Maybe read up a little.

SR ACF

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
  • Rep: -246
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2022, 11:07:05 AM »
Guys I've got a good starter for an actual discussion maybe. I've only recently been getting into my Mark Fisher (yeah I know) and something struck me, both while reading his stuff (mainly referring to the Vampire Castle essay here) and secondary literature discussing it. Some of it, including parts of Fisher's own writing, sound an awful lot like petty infighting to me, but there was an overarching theme that emerged which I really resonated with:

The left of today has lost sight of class analysis and this has paralysed it and made it easy prey for manipulation. The main reason for this (and that's what excited me) is that people aren't so much rejecting the notion of class, but that nobody knows what the word is supposed to actually mean in our world of today. We need a new and modern definition of "class" that makes it obvious that class is at the heart of ALL struggles for equality and justice.

So, what could that definition be? Or do you disagree with the argument because a) you've got a perfectly good definition already or b) class is dead to you?

I'm asking because I do agree with the argument but am not sure about what a good modern definition could be.

(Also wasn't there a thread on here a while ago that exemplifies this problem perfectly where one guy bashed on another guy about class and racism?)

therealnod

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Rep: 13
  • Brevity is
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2022, 11:23:05 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Centrist anarchism is a right wing psyop. Friedman and Rothbard were paid out the ass to promote that kind of ideology and to derail the term libertarian. Any sort of laissez-faire type political inclination strikes me as idealism. There won't be peace in such a situation, only a violent conquest, anarchist revolution seems to me an alley-oop for a violent regression into fascism, because those forces do not go away post-revolution.
[close]
Yeah Iím going to call bs on this opinion, when I had my heart set with anarchism and left leaning views it became a trap for political apathy, lol.

Iíve had myself in the stew at nonviolent protests in Seattle and Portland as well IMF/WTO in DC.

During this time I was unaware of psychosis I was going through I was sizing up cops and not saying a word, dead staring at cops and their 9mm like if you move in aggressive manner Iím grabbing that 9 and blasting, this is for hours straight my eyes telling my intentions.

I guess my views have lost non of itís potency just Iím jaded towards either side hence the centrist views, both sides are trash including libertarian party.
[close]

This is a thread about leftism dude, youíre just a run of the mill neo-lib  ::)
[close]

Ok Iíd like to see you at a demonstration holding it down. Neo lib as you say, nah Iím just jaded about both parties hence my apathy/nihilism towards change.
"This is a thread about leftism dude"

"I don't care for either political party"

This is a thread about leftism dude.

Freelancevagrant

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 2467
  • Rep: 1218
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2022, 01:56:37 PM »
Guys I've got a good starter for an actual discussion maybe. I've only recently been getting into my Mark Fisher (yeah I know) and something struck me, both while reading his stuff (mainly referring to the Vampire Castle essay here) and secondary literature discussing it. Some of it, including parts of Fisher's own writing, sound an awful lot like petty infighting to me, but there was an overarching theme that emerged which I really resonated with:

The left of today has lost sight of class analysis and this has paralysed it and made it easy prey for manipulation. The main reason for this (and that's what excited me) is that people aren't so much rejecting the notion of class, but that nobody knows what the word is supposed to actually mean in our world of today. We need a new and modern definition of "class" that makes it obvious that class is at the heart of ALL struggles for equality and justice.

So, what could that definition be? Or do you disagree with the argument because a) you've got a perfectly good definition already or b) class is dead to you?

I'm asking because I do agree with the argument but am not sure about what a good modern definition could be.

(Also wasn't there a thread on here a while ago that exemplifies this problem perfectly where one guy bashed on another guy about class and racism?)

Quoting this so I can remember to come and post a response later
Please keep kooking me for talking shit about blading on a SKATEBOARDING message board

El Fapinator

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 3012
  • Rep: -248
  • (0_o) whatever dog you probably suck at it
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2022, 02:08:16 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Centrist anarchism is a right wing psyop. Friedman and Rothbard were paid out the ass to promote that kind of ideology and to derail the term libertarian. Any sort of laissez-faire type political inclination strikes me as idealism. There won't be peace in such a situation, only a violent conquest, anarchist revolution seems to me an alley-oop for a violent regression into fascism, because those forces do not go away post-revolution.
[close]
Yeah Iím going to call bs on this opinion, when I had my heart set with anarchism and left leaning views it became a trap for political apathy, lol.

Iíve had myself in the stew at nonviolent protests in Seattle and Portland as well IMF/WTO in DC.

During this time I was unaware of psychosis I was going through I was sizing up cops and not saying a word, dead staring at cops and their 9mm like if you move in aggressive manner Iím grabbing that 9 and blasting, this is for hours straight my eyes telling my intentions.

I guess my views have lost non of itís potency just Iím jaded towards either side hence the centrist views, both sides are trash including libertarian party.
[close]

This is a thread about leftism dude, youíre just a run of the mill neo-lib  ::)
[close]

Ok Iíd like to see you at a demonstration holding it down. Neo lib as you say, nah Iím just jaded about both parties hence my apathy/nihilism towards change.
[close]
"This is a thread about leftism dude"

"I don't care for either political party"

This is a thread about leftism dude.
Well I suppose you got me summed up, I just donít have the energy or the heart. 
Dueces Bitch's

therealnod

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Rep: 13
  • Brevity is
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2022, 02:46:11 PM »
Well I suppose you got me summed up, I just donít have the energy or the heart.
It's perfect for you, then. You don't have to care about Dems or Reps or Greens or even go around calling yourself a leftist. Just fight for what's right. The energy or the heart for that will suffice.

FuzzGNU

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 510
  • Rep: 115
  • The Spectre Haunting SLAP
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2022, 04:12:59 PM »
Guys I've got a good starter for an actual discussion maybe. I've only recently been getting into my Mark Fisher (yeah I know) and something struck me, both while reading his stuff (mainly referring to the Vampire Castle essay here) and secondary literature discussing it. Some of it, including parts of Fisher's own writing, sound an awful lot like petty infighting to me, but there was an overarching theme that emerged which I really resonated with:

The left of today has lost sight of class analysis and this has paralysed it and made it easy prey for manipulation. The main reason for this (and that's what excited me) is that people aren't so much rejecting the notion of class, but that nobody knows what the word is supposed to actually mean in our world of today. We need a new and modern definition of "class" that makes it obvious that class is at the heart of ALL struggles for equality and justice.

So, what could that definition be? Or do you disagree with the argument because a) you've got a perfectly good definition already or b) class is dead to you?

I'm asking because I do agree with the argument but am not sure about what a good modern definition could be.

(Also wasn't there a thread on here a while ago that exemplifies this problem perfectly where one guy bashed on another guy about class and racism?)

This is reminding me of Thomas Frank (of the Baffler) and his book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What%27s_the_Matter_with_Kansas%3F_(book)

Thomas Frank is a sort of Social Democrat, but his point is applicable to this discussion. He basically argues that Fox News (etc.) have effectively and successfully redefined the word "class" in an effort to target and dismantle real class solidarity. Its been a while since I've read it so excuse me if I am a little off base...

He argued that conservative media had basically redefined class to purely (superficial) aesthetic qualities. They made it so to their Fox News viewers: class is NOT your economic position as a worker, but instead class is your consumer tastes and lifestyle choices.

ie) "Regular People" drink coffee and beer, "The Elites" drink lattes and wine. "Regular People" drive pickup trucks and Hummers, "The Elites" drive hybrid/electric cars. "Regular People" go to church and love their family, "The Elites" get abortions.

Its basically trying to make it so instead of class being about your economic position, class is instead about the non-traditional quality of your lifestyle and consumer habits. So even if two people are both making $50k a year, depending on their lifestyle and purchasing habits, they are a "Liberal Elite" or a regular person.

And this then applies across real economic positions. So essentially, a multi-millionaire conservative politician or TV personality is not an "Elite", BUT people who make $50k a year that get Starbucks lattes ARE a "Liberal Elite".

You can really see this backwards mentality has expanded in the 18 years since the book. Especially with Tucker Carlson (comes from a VERY wealthy family), Trump, and all the other rich conservatives that do this fake "populism" that rallies against "The Elites" and Amazon in bad faith, while actually just hammering home social "culture war" issues to further divide conservatives from understanding class solidarity. They have no interest in actually taking on Amazon and billionaires, they just use it as a carrot on the end of the rope to double down on culture war outrage, and redirect viewers away from true class solidarity.

So again, rather than class being its true essence of workers vs. owners (proletariat vs. bourgeoisie) they have transformed it for their viewers to instead be conservatives. vs liberals.

Its definitely true, and as leftists we have to identify and address this dynamic when talking with centrists/conservatives (heck, and liberals... since they also have their own version of this to a certain extent).

weon

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 1020
  • Rep: 174
  • todo gratis todo gay
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2022, 04:57:57 PM »
Guys I've got a good starter for an actual discussion maybe. I've only recently been getting into my Mark Fisher (yeah I know) and something struck me, both while reading his stuff (mainly referring to the Vampire Castle essay here) and secondary literature discussing it. Some of it, including parts of Fisher's own writing, sound an awful lot like petty infighting to me, but there was an overarching theme that emerged which I really resonated with:

The left of today has lost sight of class analysis and this has paralysed it and made it easy prey for manipulation. The main reason for this (and that's what excited me) is that people aren't so much rejecting the notion of class, but that nobody knows what the word is supposed to actually mean in our world of today. We need a new and modern definition of "class" that makes it obvious that class is at the heart of ALL struggles for equality and justice.

So, what could that definition be? Or do you disagree with the argument because a) you've got a perfectly good definition already or b) class is dead to you?

I'm asking because I do agree with the argument but am not sure about what a good modern definition could be.

(Also wasn't there a thread on here a while ago that exemplifies this problem perfectly where one guy bashed on another guy about class and racism?)

never read fisher and honestly only recently started hearing about him. whatís his deal? (besides what iíll find on wikipedia)

the question youíre asking is interesting and something i hadnít thought of before, but what i have been thinking about recently is how we need to change our understanding of power, labor, and production in the context of the fourth industrial revolution, and i think it relates to what youíve been wondering

i think itís hard for ppl to develop class consciousness on our own when we arenít aware of where we fall in the line of production, so to speak, and our relationship to it really depends on our job and location/jobs available. salaried workers in developed cities are finding more jobs in service (retail being most common) than production of physical goods, which i imagine could alienate ppl from our economic role or position? i also think the ways our ďlaborĒ or ďproduction powerĒ are being economically exploited nowadays are much more abstract, the epitome of it being the ďmetaverseĒ data extraction and contemporary corporate power structures so convoluted that we canít see who we are struggling against. i think working class vs capitalist class would still apply if we had more clarity on where everybodyís surplus value is going?

idk, just my marxist shower thoughts, what do yíall think? i appreciate this leftist thread since i missed the last one :)
Lil' Wayne is more core than Jaden Smith.
Damn. Chico of Chocolate now Pyramids of Giza. What the hell is going on?

therealnod

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Rep: 13
  • Brevity is
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2022, 05:02:13 PM »
For a run-of-the-mill liberal/progressive type, Thomas Frank is pretty good, so of course the Blue No Matter Who types despise him.

It's a pretty interesting dynamic. There are those that burn their nikes because nike took some benign stance on a social issue and those that keep wearing their nikes. Of course they don't notice they both have nikes.

newguy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 478
  • Rep: 30
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2022, 04:04:22 AM »
Guys I've got a good starter for an actual discussion maybe. I've only recently been getting into my Mark Fisher (yeah I know) and something struck me, both while reading his stuff (mainly referring to the Vampire Castle essay here) and secondary literature discussing it. Some of it, including parts of Fisher's own writing, sound an awful lot like petty infighting to me, but there was an overarching theme that emerged which I really resonated with:

The left of today has lost sight of class analysis and this has paralysed it and made it easy prey for manipulation. The main reason for this (and that's what excited me) is that people aren't so much rejecting the notion of class, but that nobody knows what the word is supposed to actually mean in our world of today. We need a new and modern definition of "class" that makes it obvious that class is at the heart of ALL struggles for equality and justice.

So, what could that definition be? Or do you disagree with the argument because a) you've got a perfectly good definition already or b) class is dead to you?

I'm asking because I do agree with the argument but am not sure about what a good modern definition could be.

(Also wasn't there a thread on here a while ago that exemplifies this problem perfectly where one guy bashed on another guy about class and racism?)

I think one issue would be that Mark passed away before he could complete his work and so weíre left with a thought process brutally interrupted (gone too soon  :'(). But itís still a really important issue to tackle i agree. Iíve read so many arguments about who does and doesnít fit in the working class segment, Iíve read people arguing that Marxís definition is too strict and outdated, others say that earning a wage to survive slots you in the working class and that truckers who own their trucks donít fit in because they own their means productions (something I disagree with). Iíve read countless threads on manual labour and trade jobs versus baristas at starbucks/uber drivers/office workers and so onÖ

Now personally I donít think I can remotely contribute anything of value because a) Iím still in uni and b) Iím a dumbass kid talking shit on an old dusty forum  ;D However some people will def have good takes on this. 

DiscountCanofTuna

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Rep: 4
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2022, 04:49:05 AM »
Props @Freelancevagrant for starting this thread, always considered myself leftwing although i am not well versed in the literature/theories.

One thing I wanted to put to you folks is how you concisely explain what actual leftism is. Call it the 'pub test'. For instance libertarianism often get's condensed to 'I just don't want the government involved in my life', something which people tend to nod and agree with fairly quickly and which is at least somewhat accurate in describing it.

I guess what I want to ask here is does anyone have an equivalent soundbite to help articulate leftism to the uninitiated? Is it even possible to simplify leftist theory to that extent?  But when the Alt-right/fascist agenda seems to be converting people  frighteningly quickly, I am curious if leftism is able to compete in that sense of 'easy to digest' soundbites. Or is my inability to do this myself just a reflection of the lack of literature I've read to this point?

Freelancevagrant

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 2467
  • Rep: 1218
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2022, 06:12:20 AM »
@DiscountCanofTuna

Glad to have you here my dude! Were you in the last one?

Here is how I try to pitch it, a liberal is someone who wants to repair capitalism. They want to make our lives moderately more comfortable, so we donít threaten their privileged place of power. They want to offer us a small slice of pie.

A leftist is someone who wants to dismantle capitalism and replace it with a different economic model. One that is concerned with the well being of all. We believe no one should profit of of the work we do and we believe in direct democracy. We demand the whole bakery.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 11:26:15 AM by Freelancevagrant »
Please keep kooking me for talking shit about blading on a SKATEBOARDING message board

cucktard

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 2495
  • Rep: 282
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2022, 07:20:21 AM »
I heard a very good definition of left vs right.

Someone on the ‘left’’ sees humans are more or less equal in value, and wants more equitable outcomes for everyone. Less poverty, more sharing, less hierarchies.

Someone on the ‘right’ sees humans as variable, and thinks some people ‘deserve’ more, and others ‘deserve’ less. They generally want to preserve hierarchies and privileges, or return to a former, more strictly stratified society.
More rewards and punishments. 

Basically, all the different stripes of revolutionary ideas (left) and reactionary ideas (right) are born from how to achieve these ideals of equality or hierarchy
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 07:50:28 AM by cucktard »
Iím trying to be every momís favorite skaterí-&&

&& is no stranger to the female species. Hes always got some travel pussy with him in his slambulance. -Hateboard


KC_Rookie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
  • Rep: 46
  • AKA Thrashpop
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2022, 07:50:06 AM »
I heard a very good definition of left vs right.

Someone on the Ďleftíí sees humans are more or less equal in value, and wants more equitable outcomes for everyone. Less poverty, more sharing, less hierarchies.

Someone on the Ďrightí sees humans as variable, and thinks some people Ďdeserveí more, and others Ďdeserveí less. They generally want to preserve hierarchies and privileges, are return to an even more stratified society.
More rewards and punishments. 

Basically, all the different stripes of revolutionary ideas (left) and reactionary ideas (right) are born from how to achieve these ideals of equality or hierarchy

I've gotten pretty out of the loop with all the different types of leftist, left vs liberal, etc
I'm definitely on the left side of the description you posted there, but I've been told I'm not a real leftist because I advocate voting Democrat (USA).

newguy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 478
  • Rep: 30
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2022, 10:27:42 AM »
Expand Quote
I heard a very good definition of left vs right.

Someone on the Ďleftíí sees humans are more or less equal in value, and wants more equitable outcomes for everyone. Less poverty, more sharing, less hierarchies.

Someone on the Ďrightí sees humans as variable, and thinks some people Ďdeserveí more, and others Ďdeserveí less. They generally want to preserve hierarchies and privileges, are return to an even more stratified society.
More rewards and punishments. 

Basically, all the different stripes of revolutionary ideas (left) and reactionary ideas (right) are born from how to achieve these ideals of equality or hierarchy
[close]

I've gotten pretty out of the loop with all the different types of leftist, left vs liberal, etc
I'm definitely on the left side of the description you posted there, but I've been told I'm not a real leftist because I advocate voting Democrat (USA).

Freelanceís post adresses this quite well, Democrats are libs, they want to fix capitalism, therefore if you vote for them or believe in their program youíre a liberal, not a leftist.
However Iím sure many leftists vote democrat to block republicans and are immensely frustrated by it. Youíre basically forced to participate in capitalism through your vote because the alternative is much, much worse. But capitalism invariably decays into fascism so your vote is merely adding a bit of rubble to a failing dam holding back the worst reactionaries. Itís just delaying the inevitable and only serves the reactionary camp cos they can point to liberalism saying ďlook these people are making everything worse!Ē which is a fact, you canít fix a broken system based on exponential growth and any attempt to fix it will fail.

This is how I personally view the Republican/Democrat dynamic at the moment, doesnt help that an elderly man who likely suffers from dementia is now heading this mess too..

Honestly Iím expecting a lot of people will radicalize when they find out all that Roe V. Wade fundraising money dems desperately needed apparently, was spent on advertisement and donations to insane Qanon republican candidates.


DaleSr

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 3257
  • Rep: 942
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2022, 11:56:52 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I heard a very good definition of left vs right.

Someone on the Ďleftíí sees humans are more or less equal in value, and wants more equitable outcomes for everyone. Less poverty, more sharing, less hierarchies.

Someone on the Ďrightí sees humans as variable, and thinks some people Ďdeserveí more, and others Ďdeserveí less. They generally want to preserve hierarchies and privileges, are return to an even more stratified society.
More rewards and punishments. 

Basically, all the different stripes of revolutionary ideas (left) and reactionary ideas (right) are born from how to achieve these ideals of equality or hierarchy
[close]

I've gotten pretty out of the loop with all the different types of leftist, left vs liberal, etc
I'm definitely on the left side of the description you posted there, but I've been told I'm not a real leftist because I advocate voting Democrat (USA).
[close]


Honestly Iím expecting a lot of people will radicalize when they find out all that Roe V. Wade fundraising money dems desperately needed apparently, was spent on advertisement and donations to insane Qanon republican candidates.

I'm sure these moderate rebels will use these stinger missiles in a responsible and unproblematic manner

KC_Rookie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
  • Rep: 46
  • AKA Thrashpop
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2022, 12:27:00 PM »

Freelanceís post adresses this quite well, Democrats are libs, they want to fix capitalism, therefore if you vote for them or believe in their program youíre a liberal, not a leftist.
However Iím sure many leftists vote democrat to block republicans and are immensely frustrated by it. Youíre basically forced to participate in capitalism through your vote because the alternative is much, much worse. But capitalism invariably decays into fascism so your vote is merely adding a bit of rubble to a failing dam holding back the worst reactionaries. Itís just delaying the inevitable and only serves the reactionary camp cos they can point to liberalism saying ďlook these people are making everything worse!Ē which is a fact, you canít fix a broken system based on exponential growth and any attempt to fix it will fail.

This is how I personally view the Republican/Democrat dynamic at the moment, doesnt help that an elderly man who likely suffers from dementia is now heading this mess too..

Honestly Iím expecting a lot of people will radicalize when they find out all that Roe V. Wade fundraising money dems desperately needed apparently, was spent on advertisement and donations to insane Qanon republican candidates.

I don't think Democrats or the two party system are the answer to anything, for sure. But having said that I think choosing to opt out of voting because you hate the system or refuse to vote for "the lesser of two evils" is a luxury enjoyed by white boys who have minimal skin in the game and will never change anything.

I'm not sure what that last statement means? Are you saying the DNC donated to Q Republicans?

Landmine

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
  • Rep: 148
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2022, 12:58:39 PM »
Expand Quote

Freelanceís post adresses this quite well, Democrats are libs, they want to fix capitalism, therefore if you vote for them or believe in their program youíre a liberal, not a leftist.
However Iím sure many leftists vote democrat to block republicans and are immensely frustrated by it. Youíre basically forced to participate in capitalism through your vote because the alternative is much, much worse. But capitalism invariably decays into fascism so your vote is merely adding a bit of rubble to a failing dam holding back the worst reactionaries. Itís just delaying the inevitable and only serves the reactionary camp cos they can point to liberalism saying ďlook these people are making everything worse!Ē which is a fact, you canít fix a broken system based on exponential growth and any attempt to fix it will fail.

This is how I personally view the Republican/Democrat dynamic at the moment, doesnt help that an elderly man who likely suffers from dementia is now heading this mess too..

Honestly Iím expecting a lot of people will radicalize when they find out all that Roe V. Wade fundraising money dems desperately needed apparently, was spent on advertisement and donations to insane Qanon republican candidates.
[close]

I don't think Democrats or the two party system are the answer to anything, for sure. But having said that I think choosing to opt out of voting because you hate the system or refuse to vote for "the lesser of two evils" is a luxury enjoyed by white boys who have minimal skin in the game and will never change anything.

I'm not sure what that last statement means? Are you saying the DNC donated to Q Republicans?

They have and are currently.  They've tried to promote "insane" candidates in order to siphon votes away from GOP candidates who might actually win.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/16/us/politics/democrats-midterms-trump-gop.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/25/hogan-trump-maryland-democratic-collusion-dan-cox-qanon-wes-moore
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/risky-midterm-strategy-democrats-boost-far-right-candidate-michigan-race-2022-07-26/

They even helped boost Trump
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428/

One hand washes the other.

IusedToSkateMore

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • SLAP Pal
  • ******
  • Posts: 2458
  • Rep: 802
  • Bronze Topic Start Bronze Topic Start : Start a topic with over 1,000 replies.
Re: Leftist thread 2: the saga continues
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2022, 01:35:10 PM »
but... but... I want the president to fix things and forgive my loans. Raising interests rates is good! it's going to force working people to choose between higher than necessary mortgage debt or help a smart investor make profit through rising rental payments! People will get back to work with lower wages and where empowered bosses who can retaliate for insubordination and malingering during the pandemic; it's going to fix inflation! At least that what's Mr.'s Powell and Biden posit. Thought when Colin passed we were done with shitty Powells...

fazer download video instagram



just kidding

https://youtu.be/8NgFOGw_UMI
stay high, lay low