Author Topic: Quality critical writing on skateboarding  (Read 584 times)

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SR ACF

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Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« on: August 11, 2022, 01:18:41 AM »
Likely doubling an existing thread so point the way please and I'll delete this.

Looking for properly well written and thought out analyses ona and around skateboarding or boardsports in general. Short or long form. Gonna start off the collection with two of my faves:

Hanson O'Haver's essay that permanently changed my outlook on skateboarding (thanks Ryan Lay): https://thebaffler.com/outbursts/a-crime-and-a-pastime-ohaver
People have lamented his ignoring 70s/80s punk influences but I guess he had to limit his word count and was mainly interested in drawing a direct line from the very beginnings to the current state of skateboarding.

Kyle Beachy's essay on Jason Jesse:
https://www.freeskatemag.com/2018/06/05/primitive-progressivism-by-kyle-beachy/
I find the lack of class consciousness a little disturbing in a piece penned by a privileged academic on somebody who came from rock bottom, but can't have everything I guess. Also I'm not even sure about Beachy's and Jesse's upbringings, just assuming here.

SR ACF

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2022, 02:00:45 AM »
Anybody have a copy of this and willing to share in the spirit of #openscience?

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783839447659-006/html?lang=de

silhouette

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2022, 02:08:40 AM »
A personal favorite of mine by Paul O'Connor: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337649420_Skateboarding_and_Religion (shout outs to Matija if you're reading this!)

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2022, 03:05:37 AM »
Anybody have a copy of this and willing to share in the spirit of #openscience?

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783839447659-006/html?lang=de


Only if you never make another thread again

Sativa Lung

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2022, 05:54:57 AM »
Expand Quote
Anybody have a copy of this and willing to share in the spirit of #openscience?

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783839447659-006/html?lang=de
[close]


Only if you never make another thread again

I second the motion.

funeral_tuxedo

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2022, 07:41:46 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Anybody have a copy of this and willing to share in the spirit of #openscience?

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783839447659-006/html?lang=de
[close]


Only if you never make another thread again
[close]

I second the motion.

for the love of god please stop making threads

TheLurper

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2022, 09:30:36 AM »
Likely doubling an existing thread so point the way please and I'll delete this.

Looking for properly well written and thought out analyses ona and around skateboarding or boardsports in general. Short or long form. Gonna start off the collection with two of my faves:

Hanson O'Haver's essay that permanently changed my outlook on skateboarding (thanks Ryan Lay): https://thebaffler.com/outbursts/a-crime-and-a-pastime-ohaver
People have lamented his ignoring 70s/80s punk influences but I guess he had to limit his word count and was mainly interested in drawing a direct line from the very beginnings to the current state of skateboarding.

Kyle Beachy's essay on Jason Jesse:
https://www.freeskatemag.com/2018/06/05/primitive-progressivism-by-kyle-beachy/
I find the lack of class consciousness a little disturbing in a piece penned by a privileged academic on somebody who came from rock bottom, but can't have everything I guess. Also I'm not even sure about Beachy's and Jesse's upbringings, just assuming here.

Hanson O'Haver is a kook and a half. His piece is terrible and he has no clue what he is talking about.

O’Haver’s claim that skateboarding is a libertarian activity misconstrues the activity and its participants. The author’s misreading appears to stem from a fundamental confusion between libertarianism and anarchism. The two viewpoints heavily overlap as they both center on strong individual rights and rebel against centralized authority. However, a key difference separating the two ideologies is libertarianism’s deep faith in private property and in the magic of the “free” market, and anarchism’s animus towards private property and belief in the magic of voluntary association or mutual aid.

This confusion of libertarianism and anarchism begins with the author’s first example. O’Haver states, “What business of yours is it if my friends and I want to grind on the painted curb behind the grocery store? Leave us alone. The curb became, for the skater, a fancifully deregulated zone imbued with limitless possibilities—and therefore a kind of freedom, so long as he could be left alone in his pursuits.” The skater has not turned the grocery store curb into some “deregulated zone,” – as this implies fighting the state—instead, the skaters have contested the notion of private property and redistributed a private asset for public use. Skaters are not analogous to “sovereign citizens” who are fighting government rule, but are closer to anarchist groups like the Black Banner, who aggressively attacked and appropriate property from the capitalists in pre-Soviet Russia.

Furthermore, the author seems to confuse conspiratorial solipsism with subcultural existentialism. The confusion here is at its peak when O’Haver ventures over to Peterson’s attempt to politicize the skaters’ risky practices. Peterson has not stumbled over skateboarding’s libertarian roots, the skaters are not kin with angry old men who complain about safety warnings on household items, instead they are like Norman Mailer’s hipsters of the post-war era. They are existentialists who challenge middle-class society by remaining in motion and define themselves through action. They have rejected suburbia, which they understand to be a stale and superficial world where the pursuit of money defines life and is the key measure of one’s success.

O’Haver falsely paints a picture of social world where hyper-individualistic skaters embrace a neo-Darwinian market based ideology. This is untrue. The subculture often promotes the idea of a system where individuals and skate-businesses must place the subculture above a profit motive. As Ocean Howell notes, skaters expect one another to “regularly make decisions that can only be thought of as foolish from a business perspective, decisions that are seriously irrational [and] deeply inefficient.” Moreover, the skaters have embraced the state through aggressively lobbying for public skate parks, which would be unlikely to survive within the free market. Skaters do not crave isolation. They are not bowling alone in Putnam’s late-modern nightmare. Skaters are (imperfectly) building community by skating together.

Quote from: ChuckRamone
I love when people bring up world hunger. It makes everything meaningless.
"That guy is double parked."
"Who cares? There are people starving to death! Besides, how does that affect you? Does it lessen the joy of parking?

manysnakes

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2022, 10:54:55 AM »
Also I'm not even sure about Beachy's and Jesse's upbringings, just assuming here.

Beachy isn’t a mega-rich kid but he grew up in probably the wealthiest suburb of St. Louis and went to the best public school in the state. He’s definitely at least “upper middle class”, as we American so nebulously define it.

His upbringing was radically different than was Jesse’s.
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manysnakes

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2022, 11:10:36 AM »
Expand Quote
Likely doubling an existing thread so point the way please and I'll delete this.

Looking for properly well written and thought out analyses ona and around skateboarding or boardsports in general. Short or long form. Gonna start off the collection with two of my faves:

Hanson O'Haver's essay that permanently changed my outlook on skateboarding (thanks Ryan Lay): https://thebaffler.com/outbursts/a-crime-and-a-pastime-ohaver
People have lamented his ignoring 70s/80s punk influences but I guess he had to limit his word count and was mainly interested in drawing a direct line from the very beginnings to the current state of skateboarding.

Kyle Beachy's essay on Jason Jesse:
https://www.freeskatemag.com/2018/06/05/primitive-progressivism-by-kyle-beachy/
I find the lack of class consciousness a little disturbing in a piece penned by a privileged academic on somebody who came from rock bottom, but can't have everything I guess. Also I'm not even sure about Beachy's and Jesse's upbringings, just assuming here.
[close]

Hanson O'Haver is a kook and a half. His piece is terrible and he has no clue what he is talking about.

O’Haver’s claim that skateboarding is a libertarian activity misconstrues the activity and its participants. The author’s misreading appears to stem from a fundamental confusion between libertarianism and anarchism. The two viewpoints heavily overlap as they both center on strong individual rights and rebel against centralized authority. However, a key difference separating the two ideologies is libertarianism’s deep faith in private property and in the magic of the “free” market, and anarchism’s animus towards private property and belief in the magic of voluntary association or mutual aid.

This confusion of libertarianism and anarchism begins with the author’s first example. O’Haver states, “What business of yours is it if my friends and I want to grind on the painted curb behind the grocery store? Leave us alone. The curb became, for the skater, a fancifully deregulated zone imbued with limitless possibilities—and therefore a kind of freedom, so long as he could be left alone in his pursuits.” The skater has not turned the grocery store curb into some “deregulated zone,” – as this implies fighting the state—instead, the skaters have contested the notion of private property and redistributed a private asset for public use. Skaters are not analogous to “sovereign citizens” who are fighting government rule, but are closer to anarchist groups like the Black Banner, who aggressively attacked and appropriate property from the capitalists in pre-Soviet Russia.

Furthermore, the author seems to confuse conspiratorial solipsism with subcultural existentialism. The confusion here is at its peak when O’Haver ventures over to Peterson’s attempt to politicize the skaters’ risky practices. Peterson has not stumbled over skateboarding’s libertarian roots, the skaters are not kin with angry old men who complain about safety warnings on household items, instead they are like Norman Mailer’s hipsters of the post-war era. They are existentialists who challenge middle-class society by remaining in motion and define themselves through action. They have rejected suburbia, which they understand to be a stale and superficial world where the pursuit of money defines life and is the key measure of one’s success.

O’Haver falsely paints a picture of social world where hyper-individualistic skaters embrace a neo-Darwinian market based ideology. This is untrue. The subculture often promotes the idea of a system where individuals and skate-businesses must place the subculture above a profit motive. As Ocean Howell notes, skaters expect one another to “regularly make decisions that can only be thought of as foolish from a business perspective, decisions that are seriously irrational [and] deeply inefficient.” Moreover, the skaters have embraced the state through aggressively lobbying for public skate parks, which would be unlikely to survive within the free market. Skaters do not crave isolation. They are not bowling alone in Putnam’s late-modern nightmare. Skaters are (imperfectly) building community by skating together.

Excellent retort, I haven’t read the original piece but your thinking largely reflects my own. Specifically with regards to the issue of private property and suburbanization. The world we built out of asphalt and concrete - mostly on behalf of automobile makers - is so ugly, barren and devoid of life, and all skaters are doing is reclaiming some beauty and humanity from this absolutely unnatural and inhuman objects. “Rights” don’t even enter into my thinking, I don’t think that it’s a term which really has any meaning. Just because some Canadian crank thinks skateboarders should be left alone, doesn’t make it libertarian. He also suggests that you should stop and pet friendly cats - but that doesn’t make cats inherently libertarian.

With all that said, I think it’s fair to conflate anarchism and libertarianism. They’re both endpoints of of a certain strain of liberal ideology and there’s both an overlap in what their adherents believe and in people using the terms interchangeably, even if a Bookchin anarchist thinks they have nothing in common with some crypto lunatic. I think that’s different from acknowledging the “anarchic” nature of skateboarding, though.
This is not my SOTY. I'm telling my kids there was no SOTY for 2021

cucktard

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2022, 02:55:55 PM »
I’m afraid it’s a very serious mistake to conflate American libertarianism (libertarianism in Europe means left anarchism) and anarchism.

Libertarianism is just Capitalism with little to no government oversight.

Anarchism covers a huge area, but pretty much every flavor of it rejects most of the core principles of Capitalism.

I’m trying to be every mom’s favorite skater’-&&

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fulltechnicalskizzy

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SR ACF

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2022, 02:20:16 AM »
Expand Quote
Likely doubling an existing thread so point the way please and I'll delete this.

Looking for properly well written and thought out analyses ona and around skateboarding or boardsports in general. Short or long form. Gonna start off the collection with two of my faves:

Hanson O'Haver's essay that permanently changed my outlook on skateboarding (thanks Ryan Lay): https://thebaffler.com/outbursts/a-crime-and-a-pastime-ohaver
People have lamented his ignoring 70s/80s punk influences but I guess he had to limit his word count and was mainly interested in drawing a direct line from the very beginnings to the current state of skateboarding.

Kyle Beachy's essay on Jason Jesse:
https://www.freeskatemag.com/2018/06/05/primitive-progressivism-by-kyle-beachy/
I find the lack of class consciousness a little disturbing in a piece penned by a privileged academic on somebody who came from rock bottom, but can't have everything I guess. Also I'm not even sure about Beachy's and Jesse's upbringings, just assuming here.
[close]

Hanson O'Haver is a kook and a half. His piece is terrible and he has no clue what he is talking about.

O’Haver’s claim that skateboarding is a libertarian activity misconstrues the activity and its participants. The author’s misreading appears to stem from a fundamental confusion between libertarianism and anarchism. The two viewpoints heavily overlap as they both center on strong individual rights and rebel against centralized authority. However, a key difference separating the two ideologies is libertarianism’s deep faith in private property and in the magic of the “free” market, and anarchism’s animus towards private property and belief in the magic of voluntary association or mutual aid.

This confusion of libertarianism and anarchism begins with the author’s first example. O’Haver states, “What business of yours is it if my friends and I want to grind on the painted curb behind the grocery store? Leave us alone. The curb became, for the skater, a fancifully deregulated zone imbued with limitless possibilities—and therefore a kind of freedom, so long as he could be left alone in his pursuits.” The skater has not turned the grocery store curb into some “deregulated zone,” – as this implies fighting the state—instead, the skaters have contested the notion of private property and redistributed a private asset for public use. Skaters are not analogous to “sovereign citizens” who are fighting government rule, but are closer to anarchist groups like the Black Banner, who aggressively attacked and appropriate property from the capitalists in pre-Soviet Russia.

Furthermore, the author seems to confuse conspiratorial solipsism with subcultural existentialism. The confusion here is at its peak when O’Haver ventures over to Peterson’s attempt to politicize the skaters’ risky practices. Peterson has not stumbled over skateboarding’s libertarian roots, the skaters are not kin with angry old men who complain about safety warnings on household items, instead they are like Norman Mailer’s hipsters of the post-war era. They are existentialists who challenge middle-class society by remaining in motion and define themselves through action. They have rejected suburbia, which they understand to be a stale and superficial world where the pursuit of money defines life and is the key measure of one’s success.

O’Haver falsely paints a picture of social world where hyper-individualistic skaters embrace a neo-Darwinian market based ideology. This is untrue. The subculture often promotes the idea of a system where individuals and skate-businesses must place the subculture above a profit motive. As Ocean Howell notes, skaters expect one another to “regularly make decisions that can only be thought of as foolish from a business perspective, decisions that are seriously irrational [and] deeply inefficient.” Moreover, the skaters have embraced the state through aggressively lobbying for public skate parks, which would be unlikely to survive within the free market. Skaters do not crave isolation. They are not bowling alone in Putnam’s late-modern nightmare. Skaters are (imperfectly) building community by skating together.

I think you're deliberately misinterpreting most of that essay and cherry picking things out of context so you can be mad at somebody daring to suggest that skateboarding is not entirely as great as we would all like it to be. It takes a certain kind of will to look critically at something you love.

The 'community' you're invoking is unable/unwilling to confront abusive behaviour by its members, has rigid hierarchies and gatekeepers, has no unionization whatsoever within the workforce, and money rules the 'community' so absolutely that its "journalists" are effectively just marketing puppets for the manufacturers. Tell me again how that isn't at all like the vision of modern day US neo-libertatians but much more like pre-Soviet anarchism?!

SR ACF

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2022, 02:37:01 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Anybody have a copy of this and willing to share in the spirit of #openscience?

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783839447659-006/html?lang=de
[close]


Only if you never make another thread again
[close]

I second the motion.
[close]

for the love of god please stop making threads

You're all either too stupid to know about the "ignore" button or you log onto here deliberately to be cruel to people you don't agree with / don't like. Both of which excellent examples to validate a more critical look at the skateboarding community and how healing, inclusive and reflected it really is, even if half of its members claim it "saved them" in some way.

Atiba Applebum

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2022, 03:18:24 AM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Anybody have a copy of this and willing to share in the spirit of #openscience?

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783839447659-006/html?lang=de
[close]


Only if you never make another thread again
[close]

I second the motion.
[close]

for the love of god please stop making threads
[close]

You're all either too stupid to know about the "ignore" button or you log onto here deliberately to be cruel to people you don't agree with / don't like. Both of which excellent examples to validate a more critical look at the skateboarding community and how healing, inclusive and reflected it really is, even if half of its members claim it "saved them" in some way.


Maybe you could also modify your behavior since many many posters on Slap don’t appreciate how you conduct yourself on here.   The fact that some aren’t sure whether you’re a troll or not should give you perspective on how your curiosity is coming across.     

There is a thread called “questions that don’t deserve their own thread”.   That should be where you are posting things you make topics out of

behavioralguide

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Re: Quality critical writing on skateboarding
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2022, 03:36:15 AM »
i feel like thelurper is "invoking" a very different and more local community from your interpretation of the word, which to me seems very industry based.