Author Topic: The Indy Thread  (Read 116680 times)

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IpathCats

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #90 on: September 23, 2022, 05:24:25 AM »
I feel like they should at least keep the forged mids. Gives lower truck guys an Indy option that isn't heavier than the standards and is more than 1.5mm difference in height from the std forges.

j....soy.....

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #91 on: September 23, 2022, 08:32:47 AM »
I’m jumping on these just for fun, they were on sale here too….the Ace lo’s weight didn’t bug me too bad and actually the inverted kingpin has grown on me.  I have krux that I could drop in too. 

Maybe the insane demand lead to companies trying new things and now they’re dialling back seeing what worked.

Worst case scenario I just set them up with an old deck and sell it.   

FatGuy92

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #92 on: September 23, 2022, 08:48:15 AM »
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I have a set of 144 standards that are pretty ground down and I was thinking of getting a set of mids to replace them. I've been preferring more of a mid truck height (thunder / Ace height) lately and it seems like Indy mids are on sale everywhere. The only thing holding me back are the various kingpin and baseplate issues I've seen here. How have these lasted for people that skate them? Are they on sale for a reason? I was thinking of just going with forged hollows but they're like double the price lol.
[close]

The small vocal community [on slap] certainly isn't the reason they're on sale; if I had to guess, they're just a niche segment in the truck market and I don't think the IKP sways a lot of 'indy' people...a 'mid' without the IKP would probably sell better (looking at you royal standard/ultra/ACE/Thunder)...and with indy, you already have so many plate/material options with 55mm and 53.5mm height trucks...do you really need a 52mm option?


Plus out of the gate they got bagged on for the heavyweight design of adding more meat to the hanger to maintain IKP clearance...weird design choice...standard [cast] indy mids are heavier than standard indys...,the reynolds hollows come closer to regs indy and the forged hollows mids come pretty close to the regular forged hollows.

A few folks have had the kingpin loosen over time (I have not, on any truck with the IKP...), and ever fewer have reported the shaft nut loosening in the plate issue (I'd argue ACE sees more loose pins by comparison), but that might be relative to the amount of people skating them? I usually see the Tiagos on sale, never the reynolds (hollows).

Personally, the 50.5mm forged hollow mid is where it's at...zero complaints and they've become my [current] favorite truck.

Mids were cool and had their advantages for sure. I just preferred the pop feel of the Forged Hollows over them. I had the shaft nut and loosening issue and never rode my replacements.

As for being on sale: I asked 2 shops local to me why they don't stock Mids and they both said that they had an initial run that didn't sell well. I am guessing that most people that want Indys don't want what they perceive is a low truck (even tho it isn't), don't care about IKP, and probably don't even know that forged trucks are lower when they buy them. When they find out they're not lighter they probably just buy what they're used to. Outside of Slap your average skater is quite clueless about gear details a lot of times. I had a dude tell me Thunders were low and he was on Ace's that were 1mm higher. A dude I see at the skatepark has 1 cast hollow Indy and 1 regular. Shit like that.

So definitely a good truck and fun to ride. I didn't think their pop feel was that great for the decks that I was on and I don't need an IKP. If you don't like them, get a cheap pair of closeout or used Indy standards and swap the hanger onto the plates.

Thanks for the detailed replies!

Xen

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #93 on: September 23, 2022, 09:14:17 AM »
I’m jumping on these just for fun, they were on sale here too….the Ace lo’s weight didn’t bug me too bad and actually the inverted kingpin has grown on me.  I have krux that I could drop in too. 

Maybe the insane demand lead to companies trying new things and now they’re dialling back seeing what worked.

Worst case scenario I just set them up with an old deck and sell it.   


Is it the og krux pin? I'm still trying to track down the thread on slap that show how they correct the top washer fit with bushings as it doesn't actually fit inside the top bushing they way you'd think it does; you'd need a bigger hole in the top part of the bushing.

LebowskisRug

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #94 on: September 23, 2022, 02:17:15 PM »
I don't think they have any intent of getting rid of the mids especially with Reynolds and Tiago having pro model mids. Probably just going to adjust production appropriately. The forged mids probably have the best kingpin clearance of any truck of that height.

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #95 on: September 23, 2022, 03:11:51 PM »
Expand Quote
I’m jumping on these just for fun, they were on sale here too….the Ace lo’s weight didn’t bug me too bad and actually the inverted kingpin has grown on me.  I have krux that I could drop in too. 

Maybe the insane demand lead to companies trying new things and now they’re dialling back seeing what worked.

Worst case scenario I just set them up with an old deck and sell it.   

[close]

Is it the og krux pin? I'm still trying to track down the thread on slap that show how they correct the top washer fit with bushings as it doesn't actually fit inside the top bushing they way you'd think it does; you'd need a bigger hole in the top part of the bushing.

Yah I think so.  I put them in everything about 5 years ago, my aces, thunders…..I found it worked ok.  I’m not really holding my breath on perfection because it sounds like some people are having issues.  I thought about revisiting thunders and putting in risers too….

Xen

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #96 on: September 23, 2022, 04:34:53 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I’m jumping on these just for fun, they were on sale here too….the Ace lo’s weight didn’t bug me too bad and actually the inverted kingpin has grown on me.  I have krux that I could drop in too. 

Maybe the insane demand lead to companies trying new things and now they’re dialling back seeing what worked.

Worst case scenario I just set them up with an old deck and sell it.   

[close]

Is it the og krux pin? I'm still trying to track down the thread on slap that show how they correct the top washer fit with bushings as it doesn't actually fit inside the top bushing they way you'd think it does; you'd need a bigger hole in the top part of the bushing.
[close]

Yah I think so.  I put them in everything about 5 years ago, my aces, thunders…..I found it worked ok.  I’m not really holding my breath on perfection because it sounds like some people are having issues.  I thought about revisiting thunders and putting in risers too….

It will still work, but if it was actually inside the top bushing you'd gain so much more clearance.

hobochimp

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #97 on: September 23, 2022, 06:01:09 PM »
Do you guys think Tiago or Reynolds actually skate the mids despite having pro model mids? I’m not aware of any Indy team riders that ride mids honestly

LebowskisRug

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #98 on: September 23, 2022, 06:45:32 PM »
I mean if you follow them on IG you can frequently see their boards. Reynolds posts his in his story all the time and you can see the IKP and fatty hangers. Tiago same story. Carlos Ribeiro skates them and there's a dude on Creature that does. I'm sure if we see gold truck footy we will know for sure.

j....soy.....

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #99 on: September 23, 2022, 08:39:28 PM »
I suspect they are blowing out trucks the same way they are blowing out everything in skating….over supply. 

Chavo

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #100 on: September 23, 2022, 09:11:50 PM »
Flex the truck super hard so the wheel touches the deck and see if the bushings are spilling over. I had a few sets of aftermarket Indy bushings where the bottom washer was kinda small and this happened as did a friend. The top washer was also kinda sharp.

Grip(tape) the inside of the washer.

LebowskisRug

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #101 on: September 24, 2022, 07:45:54 AM »
That won't help the sharp top as the metal is just super thin too. The bottom washer is physically too small. When you put the bushing in it is already touching the angled part. I dunno why they even give you washers.

Another weird thing I noticed on my last sets of Indy bushings was that the blues don't feel harder than the orange anymore.

Sedition

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #102 on: September 24, 2022, 03:10:50 PM »
I am going to make a bold/controversial statement.

People have been doing sick Smiths, Feebles, Hurricanes, etc. on curbs, ledges, rails, and vert for decades at this point...all  without IKPs, and as such, IKPs are little more than unnecessary gimmick. Go a tad faster. Adjust your technique. Maybe add a smidge of wax, because 30+ years of skate history demonstrably shows that standard kingpins are not a real problem (and yes, I've skated IKPs--I actually had a set Indy forged plate IKPs in the prototype stage...and quickly went back to regular forged plates).   
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LebowskisRug

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #103 on: September 24, 2022, 04:11:50 PM »
I respect that view and mostly agree, but when the truck is axled you can still get 2 types of tools onto an IKP. Nothing is worse than having a truck near end of life chew a bushing and it's gnarly to get a rounded nut off.

I had an issue with my early mid IKP but the replacement plates had no issue. If it could be done right then cool, but yeah- definitely not a must have feature.

swongolianbbq

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2022, 05:23:20 PM »
I always thought IKP's were big in the pool rider scene, was kinda surprised their foray into it was on a mid. At least they sell just the plates on their own, which makes sense for a dude who likes his hanger grooves and doesn't feel like shelling out for entire new trucks

If they do these stage 4 reissues with hollow axles that'd be sweet to put on the IKP baseplate

Xen

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2022, 05:32:12 PM »
I always thought IKP's were big in the pool rider scene, was kinda surprised their foray into it was on a mid. At least they sell just the plates on their own, which makes sense for a dude who likes his hanger grooves and doesn't feel like shelling out for entire new trucks

If they do these stage 4 reissues with hollow axles that'd be sweet to put on the IKP baseplate

Chances are that stage IV geo may be incompatible with other plates...that said, the way that stage XI hangers sit on the mid plates they might be a fit...stage 4 hangers on that forged mid plate....

IpathCats

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #106 on: September 26, 2022, 05:48:32 AM »
I am going to make a bold/controversial statement.

People have been doing sick Smiths, Feebles, Hurricanes, etc. on curbs, ledges, rails, and vert for decades at this point...all  without IKPs, and as such, IKPs are little more than unnecessary gimmick. Go a tad faster. Adjust your technique. Maybe add a smidge of wax, because 30+ years of skate history demonstrably shows that standard kingpins are not a real problem (and yes, I've skated IKPs--I actually had a set Indy forged plate IKPs in the prototype stage...and quickly went back to regular forged plates).   

I dont think this take is too controversial. However I do believe there is some potential benefit to be gained by exploring IKPs. If executed right it could be a plus. It wouldn't revolutionize skateboarding or anything, but it would be a welcome quality of life change.

j....soy.....

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #107 on: September 26, 2022, 10:00:03 AM »
On thunders IKP made a difference for sure because of the angles and how little meat there is on that truck.  For the most part I suck at smiths and feebles and need all the help I can get….I’ve had guys tell me a kingpin actually helps them lock in…..but when I’m creeping in on the shittiest angle and my truck is getting in differently every time.. any weird feeling I’m done, so if my trucks are consistent this is a positive thing.

Does any of it matter?  If there’s anything we’ve learned from these threads it’s…..l

Xen

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #108 on: September 26, 2022, 10:09:46 AM »

Does any of it matter?  If there’s anything we’ve learned from these threads it’s…..l

It doesn't imo, on a thunder or venture or ACE where you do gain more clearance with an IKP sure, but only for a little while until you grind it down...it surely doesn't help in the mids..it would be nice to have some hollow pin options tho...as the weight of the shaftnut+KP+extra meat on the hanger gets them pretty heft...not that I feel it TBH, the way the forged mids skate outweigh...the weight!

LebowskisRug

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #109 on: September 26, 2022, 10:39:10 AM »
The hard part about measuring clearance is you almost never grind straight on right below the kingpin and truck articulation changes clearance. I measured Mid clearance and they had the best out of Indy Standard, Thunder Team, Venture 5.6, Royal standard, etc., but people noted when testing and on this forum that they were still sometimes hitting it on feebles and catching. I have no personal experience with this, but everything in trucks is zero sum until you find your specific goldilocks.

IpathCats

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #110 on: September 26, 2022, 11:03:51 AM »
Expand Quote

Does any of it matter?  If there’s anything we’ve learned from these threads it’s…..l
[close]

It doesn't imo, on a thunder or venture or ACE where you do gain more clearance with an IKP sure, but only for a little while until you grind it down...it surely doesn't help in the mids..it would be nice to have some hollow pin options tho...as the weight of the shaftnut+KP+extra meat on the hanger gets them pretty heft...not that I feel it TBH, the way the forged mids skate outweigh...the weight!

Maybe a hotter take, I think weight isnt as important as most people (myself included) have made it out to be.
Obviously you dont want a 50LB skateboard or anything, but i think the benefit of getting all of the lightest parts isnt that great, and in some ways is a detriment. I was on my buddies board with indy standards and I felt much more in control of the board once it was in the air, I feel like this was due to the extra weight. I also feel like the added inertia from the heavier parts plays into your pop too. Though light vs "heavy" setup might really come down to the individuals technique.

Xen

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #111 on: September 26, 2022, 12:10:18 PM »
When mids are heavier than standards, you notice, I did anyway...same with ACE lows (44s), I thought ooh that hollow pin, yeah, nope. Still heavy compared to indy/thunder/royal/etc.

8.375/149 forged mids all day yesterday and had no issues with weight...tho I am dropping down to 144 forged mids, 149s are just feeling clunky coming off the af1 44s (and 148s before them).

Mid forged hollow: 376
Forged hollows: 358

Paying a 18g cost for no real added benefit in terms of grind clearance (3mm of difference on the forged mids, which I *do* notice, so the trade of is fine). But compared to a standard/hollow the mids don't net you clearance for the cost.

Kingpins are heavy, it's just the way it is. There's got to be a reason Royal/indy/krux all use the same button/hex solid pin in conjunction with the shaft nut. either cost or durability (maybe a hollow wouldn't fair so well in said shaft nut).

I'll say this tho, the mids geo feel different, better to me than forged ti..the turn is faster and def less tippy feeling.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 12:21:49 PM by Xen »

IpathCats

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #112 on: September 26, 2022, 12:56:25 PM »
When mids are heavier than standards, you notice, I did anyway...same with ACE lows (44s), I thought ooh that hollow pin, yeah, nope. Still heavy compared to indy/thunder/royal/etc.

8.375/149 forged mids all day yesterday and had no issues with weight...tho I am dropping down to 144 forged mids, 149s are just feeling clunky coming off the af1 44s (and 148s before them).

Mid forged hollow: 376
Forged hollows: 358

Paying a 18g cost for no real added benefit in terms of grind clearance (3mm of difference on the forged mids, which I *do* notice, so the trade of is fine). But compared to a standard/hollow the mids don't net you clearance for the cost.

Kingpins are heavy, it's just the way it is. There's got to be a reason Royal/indy/krux all use the same button/hex solid pin in conjunction with the shaft nut. either cost or durability (maybe a hollow wouldn't fair so well in said shaft nut).

I'll say this tho, the mids geo feel different, better to me than forged ti..the turn is faster and def less tippy feeling.

I do feel like weight would be more noticeable on a lower truck. But I guess what im getting at is that lighter boards are thought to be easier to pop higher. and while that may be true to some degree, I think inertia also plays into this. I also think that a heavier board is a bit easier to control in the air, which is something that isnt really talked about. I bought a pair of standards to test this theory, hopefully they solve my issues. Not hopeful lol.

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #113 on: September 26, 2022, 01:15:25 PM »
For those talking about pop and weight, don’t forget that (a) different height trucks will provide for different feeling pop, and (b) through the basic physics of a lever (your board is basically a lever), weight is amplified the further out on the lever it is moved. This means that trucks that have little difference in •actual• weight, might actually feel very different, weight-wise, when mounted on a board. How noticeable is this actually on skateboards? Depends on who you ask.
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LebowskisRug

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #114 on: September 26, 2022, 01:58:31 PM »
I am probably not 100% accurate with weights, but I felt my Indy Forged Ti 144 felt lighter in pop than my Thunder Ti Lites, which were for sure lighter.

I also seem to get the worst wheelbite with Forged Hollow vs basically any other truck even from any brand. Buuuut I do prefer them for many tricks compared to standards.

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #115 on: September 26, 2022, 03:48:41 PM »
I am probably not 100% accurate with weights, but I felt my Indy Forged Ti 144 felt lighter in pop than my Thunder Ti Lites, which were for sure lighter.

I also seem to get the worst wheelbite with Forged Hollow vs basically any other truck even from any brand. Buuuut I do prefer them for many tricks compared to standards.

I also get more wheelbite on forged hollows compared to team thunders despite higher axle. Could be a geometry thing in the turn.

Though I think xen’s experience was the opposite.

Maybe I ride weird?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Xen

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #116 on: September 26, 2022, 05:16:13 PM »
Been riding forged mids (50.5mm) with 51mm V1 wheels and beat ass classic ace bottoms/low tops+flat washers (nut+pin flush+ 1/2 turn) and using yesterday as a use case, had but two instances of wheelbite and that was me trying to make a sharp turn at slow speeds while being distracted :P

The week prior, riding forged thunder 148s stock, with the same wheels on a board with wheel wells I was still biting all over the place. I clearly need that slower initialization of the arc for as loose as I ride because using the same motions on thunders find me dipping too hard too fast (if I rode tighter it wouldn't happen); they just insta-bite.

With ACE/Royal/Indy I don't have to pay attention to avoid wheelbite, I can just skate (it still happens tho) when I skate thunders I'm constantly shifting my weight to consciously avoid it during turns, especially if I'm slappying; if I'm doing flat/big ollies or ledges, thunders are fine since it's all straight lines w/quick setup.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 05:25:57 PM by Xen »

huggernaut

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #117 on: September 26, 2022, 05:21:07 PM »
had but two instances of wheelbite and that was me trying to make a sharp turn at slow speeds while being distracted :P

Nothing makes me feel more dumb than getting pitched because my phone buzzed lol

LebowskisRug

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #118 on: September 26, 2022, 06:01:32 PM »
Complete opposite for me. I do tight u-turns all the time, carve fine, zero issues with wheelbite on Thunders. Maybe I'm just a twitchy dude? I stopped really questioning it when I realized that it just doesn't happen to me. Most people feel my trucks are pretty medium to medium loose. Definitely not squirrely. I think for me there is a nice quick snap to and from center with Thunder and with Indy maybe it has to do with the effective wheelbase or extra clearance of the standards that made it work well for me. I prob shoulda used blue bushings with less kingpin tightness.

I also recently rode Forged Ti 144's and think even a 149 woulda been smarter since I usually ride 8.38 or the DLX 8.25, which actually measures 8.38. Almost always 52's, sometimes a 53. I did have wider wheels on my last few Indy setups, which definitely doesn't help with bite.

I only really wheelbite when landing too lead footed on specific tricks and flip tricks usually 360 flips or nollie 180's when moving relatively fast (for me). I do pretty tight u-turns at a lot of spots and never had issues there (Oakland Courthouse was one for reference, where Venture dudes often tic-tac the u-turns). I've ridden looser before and it doesn't add anything to my ability to do tricks (actually makes most tricks pop shittier and unstable landings at speed) and I don't view truck looseness/tightness as a point of pride.

Where I really like Indys and sometimes miss them is on transition where I can kinda progressively lean into the arc. Trucks are weird. Maybe someday I'll try em again.

j....soy.....

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Re: The Indy Thread
« Reply #119 on: September 26, 2022, 07:49:18 PM »
Thunders are full on landmine trucks…..I jump on em and get ejected…..aces you swerve real hard before you wheelbite….lately I have been wheel biting on ventures but the angle isn’t bad….it’s like a form of braking….