180s, heelflips, and the fresh v hesh continuum

[Sizzle]

I have a theory that some people are naturally better at heelflips and back 180s and people who are natural kickflippers tend to be better at frontside 180s. Not groundbreaking per se but bear with me, this implies that there’s some characteristic in each skaters mechanics or body that influences their ability to do tricks. It’s pretty easy to place tricks on the fresh to hesh spectrum (specifically flatground / ledge tricks) front tails and frontside flips are very hesh (switch is a little murky but generally way less fresh than their switch backside counterparts). This all kind of implies that some people are naturally fresh or born fresh and some are born hesh. I learned back 180s before frontside, always made more sense to me. Quim Cardona? I grew up a big flannely habitat type of kid so I don’t think it’s just people emulating their favorite skaters influence type of thing. Do you think people are biologically determinded to be fresh or hesh?

[scab]

Hell yeah, let's talk nature vs. nurture on a skateboarding forum. I'm sure it'll go great.

fwiw, FS 180s have always come much more naturally to me, but nowadays I feel way more comfortable with heelflips than kickflips. Guess I'm neither hesh nor fresh. Oh well.

[jorge]

Kinda over hesh vs fresh.  Is there a third alternative?  What about someone like Austyn Gillette?

[my bad cuh]

Kinda over hesh vs fresh.  Is there a third alternative?  What about someone like Austyn Gillette?

hesh vs fresh vs the frog skateboards team

[big_kev_215]

As a backside 180’er and kickflipper, I’m not sure how I fit into this discussion

[donkey]

you chose your path when you started skating - if you learned heelflips first you are hesh and if you learned kickflips first you are fresh

[Lenny the Fatface]

Kinda over hesh vs fresh.  Is there a third alternative?  What about someone like Austyn Gillette?

It’s kind of like modern American politics, You have 2 major tribes and a rotating door of smaller tribes competing for the a very small third spot.

In the early 2000’s it was that weird hesh/fresh fusion that the Brian Anderson’s, Sean Sheffy’s and Rob Welsh’s of the world used to occupy. Then in the mid 2000’s it was the earthy “Kenny Reed if you were white / Rasta-ish LRG type if you were black or Hispanic” vibe going on. Late 2000’s it was the Hipsters. Then for most of the 2010’s it was variations of “rich kid dressing like a janitor”.

The current 3rd place tribe is a silent but heated battle between “dad in 2003” vs. “legde tech skater in dirty sweatpants”.

[Turtle Boy]

I have a theory that it depends on the center of gravity of the skaters, hence why for some morphologies it's easier to do heelflips, bs 180 and bs 50-50 than the flip/fs.

 

[GrayCellGreen]

I have a theory that some people are naturally better at heelflips and back 180s and people who are natural kickflippers tend to be better at frontside 180s. Not groundbreaking per se but bear with me, this implies that there’s some characteristic in each skaters mechanics or body that influences their ability to do tricks. It’s pretty easy to place tricks on the fresh to hesh spectrum (specifically flatground / ledge tricks) front tails and frontside flips are very hesh (switch is a little murky but generally way less fresh than their switch backside counterparts). This all kind of implies that some people are naturally fresh or born fresh and some are born hesh. I learned back 180s before frontside, always made more sense to me. Quim Cardona? I grew up a big flannely habitat type of kid so I don’t think it’s just people emulating their favorite skaters influence type of thing. Do you think people are biologically determinded to be fresh or hesh?

What happens when someone can do kickflips, heelflips, and both 180's regular and switch? Where do they fall into your binary categories?

[fs1/2cab]

I don't have an answer to OPs original point.

But for me Kickflips are easier, Heelflips feel better.
Backside 180s are okay. Frontside 180s are terrible on flatground but not out of bumps or in quarters.

[Sila]

Kinda over hesh vs fresh.  Is there a third alternative?  What about someone like Austyn Gillette?

Hesh vs fresh vs generic brunchman

[KGB]

I have a theory that some people are naturally better at heelflips and back 180s and people who are natural kickflippers tend to be better at frontside 180s. Not groundbreaking per se but bear with me, this implies that there’s some characteristic in each skaters mechanics or body that influences their ability to do tricks. It’s pretty easy to place tricks on the fresh to hesh spectrum (specifically flatground / ledge tricks) front tails and frontside flips are very hesh (switch is a little murky but generally way less fresh than their switch backside counterparts). This all kind of implies that some people are naturally fresh or born fresh and some are born hesh. I learned back 180s before frontside, always made more sense to me. Quim Cardona? I grew up a big flannely habitat type of kid so I don’t think it’s just people emulating their favorite skaters influence type of thing. Do you think people are biologically determinded to be fresh or hesh?

This is the case for me, heel flips always came easier and backside feels more natural. Love a nice backside nollie or back side 180, just feels so right and satisfying. Therefore I have come to the conclusion that you are correct and I am fresh. You heard it here first.

[schralp pal]

Wait - is a kickflip hesh and a heelflip is fresh or do I have that mixed up?

[jerrygurneyscream]

what about hesh-freshies and fresh-heshies?

[Sizzle]

Wait - is a kickflip hesh and a heelflip is fresh or do I have that mixed up?

Kickflip is hesh, proper, above knee height heelflips are fresh.

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I have a theory that some people are naturally better at heelflips and back 180s and people who are natural kickflippers tend to be better at frontside 180s. Not groundbreaking per se but bear with me, this implies that there’s some characteristic in each skaters mechanics or body that influences their ability to do tricks. It’s pretty easy to place tricks on the fresh to hesh spectrum (specifically flatground / ledge tricks) front tails and frontside flips are very hesh (switch is a little murky but generally way less fresh than their switch backside counterparts). This all kind of implies that some people are naturally fresh or born fresh and some are born hesh. I learned back 180s before frontside, always made more sense to me. Quim Cardona? I grew up a big flannely habitat type of kid so I don’t think it’s just people emulating their favorite skaters influence type of thing. Do you think people are biologically determinded to be fresh or hesh?

[close]

This is the case for me, heel flips always came easier and backside feels more natural. Love a nice backside nollie or back side 180, just feels so right and satisfying. Therefore I have come to the conclusion that you are correct and I am fresh. You heard it here first.

Would you consider yourself fresh though? That’s what I’m getting at

[Alexactly]

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Kinda over hesh vs fresh.  Is there a third alternative?  What about someone like Austyn Gillette?

[close]

In the early 2000’s it was that weird hesh/fresh fusion that the Brian Anderson’s, Sean Sheffy’s and Rob Welsh’s of the world used to occupy.

Wu Welsh as a fresh/head fusion??? I mean… he skated indys and spitfires and rocked the low card beanie… did pivot-fakie … ok… but he represented the apotheosis of early aughts SF fresh tech skating.

Anyhow, it seems insane to me to think that kickflips/FS 180/ FS flips are in anyway heat tricks. Flipping your board at all is unhesh. Hesh tricks are bowl carves, FS boardslides, bs smiths/fs feebles, shotgunning beers, shooting guns, being racist, etc.

[work_lurker]

Expand Quote

Kinda over hesh vs fresh.  Is there a third alternative?  What about someone like Austyn Gillette?

[close]

It’s kind of like modern American politics, You have 2 major tribes and a rotating door of smaller tribes competing for the a very small third spot.

In the early 2000’s it was that weird hesh/fresh fusion that the Brian Anderson’s, Sean Sheffy’s and Rob Welsh’s of the world used to occupy. Then in the mid 2000’s it was the earthy “Kenny Reed if you were white / Rasta-ish LRG type if you were black or Hispanic” vibe going on. Late 2000’s it was the Hipsters. Then for most of the 2010’s it was variations of “rich kid dressing like a janitor”.

The current 3rd place tribe is a silent but heated battle between “dad in 2003” vs. “legde tech skater in dirty sweatpants”.

You've quite nicely summed up the generational archetypes in skating. I have nothing more to add, very good response Mr. Fatface.

[skippersoldballs]

I couldn’t heelflip to save someones life. Not because I can’t land one but because I’ve always wondered what it would be like to let somebody die

[switchfakie]

im better at heelflips and even though i like back 180's more, front 180s came easier to me

i can somehow kickflip up semi-tall ledges, but not heelflip so your theory doesnt apply, at least to me

fresh v hesh is a stupid construct that the 90s people made

sometimes i dress hesh, other days i dress "fresh"

limiting yourself to a particular style is kinda wack imo, it just limits what you clothes you wear whether or not you like the other sides clothing just for the sake of looking a certain way

[j....soy.....]

If you are doing heelflips, you are rather shitty or real good……everyone in between is kickflipping or doing switch heels because they are normal…..

[Skatebeard]

I have a great fs180 but can't do fs180 flip tricks at all, bs flips just feel so much easier.

Kickflips for the "do a kickflip crowd", nice popped heelflip for those in the know.

I'm approaching 40 so have no real style anymore... if I did it would probably be "early 00s flatground nerd"

Sweatpants and a hoody all the way, if I'm comfortable I skate better.

[Lenny the Fatface]

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Kinda over hesh vs fresh.  Is there a third alternative?  What about someone like Austyn Gillette?

[close]

In the early 2000’s it was that weird hesh/fresh fusion that the Brian Anderson’s, Sean Sheffy’s and Rob Welsh’s of the world used to occupy.

[close]

Wu Welsh as a fresh/head fusion??? I mean… he skated indys and spitfires and rocked the low card beanie… did pivot-fakie … ok… but he represented the apotheosis of early aughts SF fresh tech skating.

Anyhow, it seems insane to me to think that kickflips/FS 180/ FS flips are in anyway heat tricks. Flipping your board at all is unhesh. Hesh tricks are bowl carves, FS boardslides, bs smiths/fs feebles, shotgunning beers, shooting guns, being racist, etc.

Wu Welsh wore hella oversized jerseys, which was fresh…but they were all teams he rooted for instead of some fly shit that’ll match his shoes, which is sneakily hesh. If I remember correctly he was also really got at bombing hills pre-2007, which is some hesh shit even for an SF resident.

Also while not fair to use anything outside of the early 2003s to make my case, he transitioned into looking like a hobo almost seamlessly.

[LonleySk8er15]

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Kinda over hesh vs fresh.  Is there a third alternative?  What about someone like Austyn Gillette?

[close]

In the early 2000’s it was that weird hesh/fresh fusion that the Brian Anderson’s, Sean Sheffy’s and Rob Welsh’s of the world used to occupy.

[close]

Wu Welsh as a fresh/head fusion??? I mean… he skated indys and spitfires and rocked the low card beanie… did pivot-fakie … ok… but he represented the apotheosis of early aughts SF fresh tech skating.

Anyhow, it seems insane to me to think that kickflips/FS 180/ FS flips are in anyway heat tricks. Flipping your board at all is unhesh. Hesh tricks are bowl carves, FS boardslides, bs smiths/fs feebles, shotgunning beers, shooting guns, being racist, etc.

[close]

Wu Welsh wore hella oversized jerseys, which was fresh…but they were all teams he rooted for instead of some fly shit that’ll match his shoes, which is sneakily hesh. If I remember correctly he was also really got at bombing hills pre-2007, which is some hesh shit even for an SF resident.

Welsh was also dabbling in vert recently which is by definition unfresh.

myself, I am not fresh. So by process of elimination I am hesh. Therefore I must get a studded belt and trucker hat to accentuate my heshlyness

[$$LESH]

all front side half cabbers look like dave bachinsky to me

[Jrahmanvt]

If you are doing heelflips, you are rather shitty or real good……everyone in between is kickflipping or doing switch heels because they are normal…..

Fuck Im shit.....

[linzrobertson]

Expand Quote

Kinda over hesh vs fresh.  Is there a third alternative?  What about someone like Austyn Gillette?

[close]

It’s kind of like modern American politics, You have 2 major tribes and a rotating door of smaller tribes competing for the a very small third spot.

In the early 2000’s it was that weird hesh/fresh fusion that the Brian Anderson’s, Sean Sheffy’s and Rob Welsh’s of the world used to occupy. Then in the mid 2000’s it was the earthy “Kenny Reed if you were white / Rasta-ish LRG type if you were black or Hispanic” vibe going on. Late 2000’s it was the Hipsters. Then for most of the 2010’s it was variations of “rich kid dressing like a janitor”.

The current 3rd place tribe is a silent but heated battle between “dad in 2003” vs. “legde tech skater in dirty sweatpants”.

That made me laugh

[FunnyBunny]

All this hesh vs fresh stuff is really funny in hindsight.  It kinda makes me miss IPath for some reason.

I’ve been missing IPath a lot lately,  I think I’m having a midlife crisis or some shit

[modern life is war]

what about people who can't flip their boards at all. i'm one of them. you know the saying. those who can't skate street make excuses and call themselves transition skaters.

[formula420]

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Kinda over hesh vs fresh.  Is there a third alternative?  What about someone like Austyn Gillette?

[close]

In the early 2000’s it was that weird hesh/fresh fusion that the Brian Anderson’s, Sean Sheffy’s and Rob Welsh’s of the world used to occupy.

[close]

Wu Welsh as a fresh/head fusion??? I mean… he skated indys and spitfires and rocked the low card beanie… did pivot-fakie … ok… but he represented the apotheosis of early aughts SF fresh tech skating.

Anyhow, it seems insane to me to think that kickflips/FS 180/ FS flips are in anyway heat tricks. Flipping your board at all is unhesh. Hesh tricks are bowl carves, FS boardslides, bs smiths/fs feebles, shotgunning beers, shooting guns, being racist, etc.

[close]

Wu Welsh wore hella oversized jerseys, which was fresh…but they were all teams he rooted for instead of some fly shit that’ll match his shoes, which is sneakily hesh. If I remember correctly he was also really got at bombing hills pre-2007, which is some hesh shit even for an SF resident.

[close]

Welsh was also dabbling in vert recently which is by definition unfresh.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vi7wStCxr50&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE

[Gab]

I learned fs and bs 180s way before any flip trick. Then I learned kicks and heels equally as well. I haven’t tried a regular heelflip in ages. I don’t know what this means. I think I exist in a grey area just like with the rest of my life