Joe Castrucci: WORSE Than Jamie

[Prison Wallet]

"What makes it cheaper to make boards in Mexico?"

Opperational costs:

rent
utilities
labor
maybe bullshit NAFTA taxbreaks

[I SUCK!]

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I'd love to hear what these so-called unsavory/sketchy business practices are?
Malls, discounts, Iasc, lame boards for the sake of profits?

Some of this stuff has been discussed, but that thread's gone now. If anyone has something to say, I'll give you our take and if we're sketchy, maybe I can change some crap.

[close]

I don't know much about any business practices, but how you treatin' them workers down in Mexico? They get any benefits? fair pay? What makes it cheaper to make boards in Mexico?

Yeah, they get benefits and solid pay. The thing they appreciate most is that they have steady work, that's hard to find in Mexico.
The cost of living is lower in Mexico therefore the rent and labor rate is lower.

Other companies make their boards in mexico for the same reasons.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

I'm  swinging from Jaimies nuts. Stupid.

All I could see was that. Anything else you have to say?

[brooklyn brawler]

I remember reading about the benefits, and slowly lowered my fists too.

I can say for anyone that having benefits is worth most if not all jobs. I can understand freelancers that are fine with the money, but the assurance is always good. You really never know what'll happen.


I would have been dirt poor if not for the company paying for my woman being a hypochondriac.

[H8R]

I'd love to hear what these so-called unsavory/sketchy business practices are?
Malls, discounts, Iasc, lame boards for the sake of profits?
Some of this stuff has been discussed, but that thread's gone now. If anyone has something to say, I'll give you our take and if we're sketchy, maybe I can change some crap.

i should not have said "unsavory", its just a bad choice of words, sorry about that. 
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I don't know much about any business practices, but how you treatin' them workers down in Mexico? They get any benefits? fair pay?

ummmm, mexico is not the USA, therefore fair wages and all that other stuff mentioned means nothing, thats stuff is strictly for TAX PAYING AMERICANS ONLY.  i'm all for keeping things fair(within the 50 states) but mexicans residents(that means people living in mexico, not mexicans living LEGALLY here in the states) aren't supporting the US in anyway whatsoever, so they deserve absolutely nothing. 
fuck that shit!  if you want to live like americans, if you want what americans got, learn the language and file for citizenship like my forefathers and their forefathers before them.

and before anyone goes apeshit on me, i'd like to add i have nothing against mexican people, i actually have the utmost respect for them.   

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

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I'd love to hear what these so-called unsavory/sketchy business practices are?
Malls, discounts, Iasc, lame boards for the sake of profits?
Some of this stuff has been discussed, but that thread's gone now. If anyone has something to say, I'll give you our take and if we're sketchy, maybe I can change some crap.

[close]

i should not have said "unsavory", its just a bad choice of words, sorry about that. 
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I don't know much about any business practices, but how you treatin' them workers down in Mexico? They get any benefits? fair pay?

[close]

ummmm, mexico is not the USA, therefore fair wages and all that other stuff mentioned means nothing, thats stuff is strictly for TAX PAYING AMERICANS ONLY.  i'm all for keeping things fair(within the 50 states) but mexicans residents(that means people living in mexico, not mexicans living LEGALLY here in the states) aren't supporting the US in anyway whatsoever, so they deserve absolutely nothing. 
fuck that shit!  if you want to live like americans, if you want what americans got, learn the language and file for citizenship like my forefathers and their forefathers before them.

and before anyone goes apeshit on me, i'd like to add i have nothing against mexican people, i actually have the utmost respect for them.   

We also don't give them any government services, why would they pay us taxes?

[Prison Wallet]

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I'm  swinging from Jaimies nuts. Stupid.

[close]

All I could see was that. Anything else you have to say?

What, are you beyond reproach? If someone calls you out your eyes go out of focus and your mind manipulates what they say? What are you thirteen?

Instead of manipulating what I said to look cool why don't you address the content of what a wrote? If I said something stupid call me out. Where exactly did I swing from Jaimie's nuts? By saying he's earned his status? Tell me he hasn't. Your stupid question doesn't make me swing from Jaimie's nuts, it makes you look like a dipshit. 

But at the same time you addressed a good point with the Mexican labor issue. Just because your question about his team was stupid doesn't mean I can't see the wisdom in another one of your posts.   

[Prison Wallet]

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I'd love to hear what these so-called unsavory/sketchy business practices are?
Malls, discounts, Iasc, lame boards for the sake of profits?

Some of this stuff has been discussed, but that thread's gone now. If anyone has something to say, I'll give you our take and if we're sketchy, maybe I can change some crap.

[close]

I don't know much about any business practices, but how you treatin' them workers down in Mexico? They get any benefits? fair pay? What makes it cheaper to make boards in Mexico?

[close]

Yeah, they get benefits and solid pay. The thing they appreciate most is that they have steady work, that's hard to find in Mexico.
The cost of living is lower in Mexico therefore the rent and labor rate is lower.

Other companies make their boards in mexico for the same reasons.

Benefits are a start but "solid pay" doesn't tell me anything. I'm sure the landscaper who picks up migrants on the corner every morning thinks $6.00 an hour's solid pay. Is it a living wage? There's ways to figure that out and as a business ower it's your duty to do so if you care about social justice. Products can be certified as "fair trade" and I'm sure with a little research you could figure that out.

"Steady Work" sounds good but desparate people take shitty steady work because they're desparate. I'm sure prostitution's a steady gig.

How about that Theotis? "Do you think you'd have a good team if they had to work for free and you had no skate cred?" Real thought provoking...

[Row From The Rocks]

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[close]

ACtually, I don't give a shit about black box one way or another. You really buy into a lot of shit. You doubt that a company would go for the bottom line? You think shit like how well a board holds up matters compared to the size of the paycheck that a pro gets for it? You are just to bright eyed to talk to.

I care about how the boards hold up just as much as any paycheck.
We try to make the strongest boards we can without making them too steep.

[/quote]

From the guy in charge. Sometimes stating the obvious can be profound. Why wouldn't a skater want to ride a good board?

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

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[close]

ACtually, I don't give a shit about black box one way or another. You really buy into a lot of shit. You doubt that a company would go for the bottom line? You think shit like how well a board holds up matters compared to the size of the paycheck that a pro gets for it? You are just to bright eyed to talk to.

[close]

I care about how the boards hold up just as much as any paycheck.
We try to make the strongest boards we can without making them too steep.

From the guy in charge. Sometimes stating the obvious can be profound. Why wouldn't a skater want to ride a good board?
[/quote]
OF COURSE THE GUY IN CHARGE SAYS SHIT LIKE THAT!

[Holden]

ummmm, mexico is not the USA, therefore fair wages and all that other stuff mentioned means nothing, thats stuff is strictly for TAX PAYING AMERICANS ONLY.  i'm all for keeping things fair(within the 50 states) but mexicans residents(that means people living in mexico, not mexicans living LEGALLY here in the states) aren't supporting the US in anyway whatsoever, so they deserve absolutely nothing. 
fuck that shit!  if you want to live like americans, if you want what americans got, learn the language and file for citizenship like my forefathers and their forefathers before them.

and before anyone goes apeshit on me, i'd like to add i have nothing against mexican people, i actually have the utmost respect for them.   
[/quote]


you my friend are ignorant, no need to argue this point if you dont kinow why i cant help you.        "mexicans residents aren't supporting the US in anyway whatsoever, so they deserve absolutely nothing." had to double quote this line.

[H8R]

C-O-N......SPIRACY!

[Row From The Rocks]

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I'd love to hear what these so-called unsavory/sketchy business practices are?
Malls, discounts, Iasc, lame boards for the sake of profits?

Some of this stuff has been discussed, but that thread's gone now. If anyone has something to say, I'll give you our take and if we're sketchy, maybe I can change some crap.

[close]

I don't know much about any business practices, but how you treatin' them workers down in Mexico? They get any benefits? fair pay? What makes it cheaper to make boards in Mexico?

[close]

Yeah, they get benefits and solid pay. The thing they appreciate most is that they have steady work, that's hard to find in Mexico.
The cost of living is lower in Mexico therefore the rent and labor rate is lower.

Other companies make their boards in mexico for the same reasons.

It's pretty clear that the US is moving toward a service economy and can't compete on any level in terms of manufacture. Skateboards have been slow to move overseas because the wood is tempermental and the product wasn't produced in quantities high enough to warrant it until recently. The US has one of the highest standards of living and as long as the market demands $30 boards and US workers demand $30 an hour companies will move their wood overseas. Where it gets tricky is that the woodshops that supplied US board companies so long are still around - and they've lowered their minimums to accomodate shop boards and stay in business. Keep in mind that there's a fair amount of employees working in Southern California woodshops whose citezenship is questionable. It's not like buying American boards necessarily puts cash in skaters pockets and Mexico seems to be a good alternative to China - who everyone seems to think makes shit boards.

[H8R]

ummmm, mexico is not the USA, therefore fair wages and all that other stuff mentioned means nothing, thats stuff is strictly for TAX PAYING AMERICANS ONLY.  i'm all for keeping things fair(within the 50 states) but mexicans residents(that means people living in mexico, not mexicans living LEGALLY here in the states) aren't supporting the US in anyway whatsoever, so they deserve absolutely nothing. 
fuck that shit!  if you want to live like americans, if you want what americans got, learn the language and file for citizenship like my forefathers and their forefathers before them.

and before anyone goes apeshit on me, i'd like to add i have nothing against mexican people, i actually have the utmost respect for them.   

you my friend are ignorant, no need to argue this point if you dont kinow why i cant help you.        "mexicans residents aren't supporting the US in anyway whatsoever, so they deserve absolutely nothing." had to double quote this line.
[/quote]

and you can't read. 

sorry you missed it but, TB said how boards are being made in mexcio(hence being made by mexican residents) and how those people should receive fair wages and benefits.

i'm simply stating that the mexicans he speaks of don't deserve that.  no fair wages, no benefits, that its strictly for tax paying americans.  does it make sense now?

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

" I'm talking about the team here. Do you think you would have the same team if you didn't have as much money in the project and a legend such as yourself wasn't backing it?"

Come on dude, what's your point? Take a deep breath before you post. This isn't a question, and the answer's no. Of course not. I'm not swinging from Jaimies nuts but he's earned the money he pays his riders and rightfully earned his legend status in blood sweat and tears. So what are you saying, he doesn't deserve a solid team and that he's somehow cheated in the skate industry. Stupid.

But you're questions about fair pay for Mexican laborers is good. I've mentioned it before and it never got addressed. Globalization's OK in my book if fair trade is employed. If Jaimie took that shit seriously I might even buy his product. And of course spraypaint over the gothy graphics.

Ok, if you want me to explain why all I could see is you swinging from Jamie's fucking nuts I can explain it point by point.
FIRST, you come flying in to Jamie's defense. He could have defended himself, if he needed me to. Funny thing is, I wasn't insulting him one bit. But you start defending his honor as if it needed defending, and jump in on a conversation that you obviously have not read back on.

SECOND, you responded without even knowing what you were responding to. Your questions such as "whats your point" and "what are you saying," as well as your take on what I was saying show just how uninvolved in the conversation you were. Yet, because Jamie Thomas is involved you feel the need to put in your two cents, and from what I can see, all you care about is that people don't make Jamie feel bad. The person who I WAS addressing was rasing the point that zero's team riders ride for zero because the boards are strong. I said it was rediculous, and raised the point that Jamie Thomas is a legend in the skateboard community, and also has a fat wallet, and those two reasons are why the team is who they are. The reason I phrased it as a question was because it was a hypothetical, with an obvious answer, which illustrated my point.

So yeah, all I could see was you trying to kiss Jamie's ass without bringing up anything relevant, and in fact, having no idea what you were responding to.

[Prison Wallet]

Oh Theo... Read this again:

Benefits are a start but "solid pay" doesn't tell me anything. I'm sure the landscaper who picks up migrants on the corner every morning thinks $6.00 an hour's solid pay. Is it a living wage? There's ways to figure that out and as a business ower it's your duty to do so if you care about social justice. Products can be certified as "fair trade" and I'm sure with a little research you could figure that out.

"Steady Work" sounds good but desparate people take shitty steady work because they're desparate. I'm sure prostitution's a steady gig.
_______________________________________________________________________________

Yeah, I'm defending his honor... And who's not reading up on this post? And maybe I misread or misconstrued your post but I thought you basically asked Jaimie, "would you have such a solid team if you didn't pay your riders and you weren't a legend?" What's the relevance there? Anyone? You were illustrating the point that it takes money and cred to establish a good team? Whoa... Earth shattering. But it's not all money and cred, those dudes skate for who they do 'cause they fit the gnar hesh image. Except for the Scottsman. I still can't figure that one out. Maybe that one is just money and cred.  

Just because I don't post stupid shit every chance I get don't think I don't read up or am out of the loop of your stupid ass exclusive slap message board club. Maybe I skate more than I post.   

[Prison Wallet]

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ummmm, mexico is not the USA, therefore fair wages and all that other stuff mentioned means nothing, thats stuff is strictly for TAX PAYING AMERICANS ONLY.  i'm all for keeping things fair(within the 50 states) but mexicans residents(that means people living in mexico, not mexicans living LEGALLY here in the states) aren't supporting the US in anyway whatsoever, so they deserve absolutely nothing. 
fuck that shit!  if you want to live like americans, if you want what americans got, learn the language and file for citizenship like my forefathers and their forefathers before them.

and before anyone goes apeshit on me, i'd like to add i have nothing against mexican people, i actually have the utmost respect for them.   

[close]

you my friend are ignorant, no need to argue this point if you dont kinow why i cant help you.        "mexicans residents aren't supporting the US in anyway whatsoever, so they deserve absolutely nothing." had to double quote this line.

and you can't read. 

sorry you missed it but, TB said how boards are being made in mexcio(hence being made by mexican residents) and how those people should receive fair wages and benefits.

i'm simply stating that the mexicans he speaks of don't deserve that.  no fair wages, no benefits, that its strictly for tax paying americans.  does it make sense now?
[/quote]

I hope this is a joke... You think only "tax paying americans" support our lifestyles? We buy all the shit we do because it's affordable, because it's made by people desparate enough to take shit for pay. Non taxpaying non Americans support our lifestyle more than the legal residents. Most of our tax money goes to the military and "defending" our border, which at this point in history does shit for our "lifestyle." It's all economics... All of it. And if we paid people a living wage in places like Mexico we'd see a huge decrease in people being pushed and pulled illegally across the border. It's a little more complex than that but look at places like the EU. Those contries are the size of US states and you don't see the imigration problem we do here. Because the EU invests in the infastructure of poorer EU countries (like Slovakia and Poland) so they don't just become a source of cheap labor.

Do you really think the US is better off treating the rest of the world like shit or turning a blind eye?

[H8R]

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ummmm, mexico is not the USA, therefore fair wages and all that other stuff mentioned means nothing, thats stuff is strictly for TAX PAYING AMERICANS ONLY.  i'm all for keeping things fair(within the 50 states) but mexicans residents(that means people living in mexico, not mexicans living LEGALLY here in the states) aren't supporting the US in anyway whatsoever, so they deserve absolutely nothing. 
fuck that shit!  if you want to live like americans, if you want what americans got, learn the language and file for citizenship like my forefathers and their forefathers before them.

and before anyone goes apeshit on me, i'd like to add i have nothing against mexican people, i actually have the utmost respect for them.   

[close]

you my friend are ignorant, no need to argue this point if you dont kinow why i cant help you.        "mexicans residents aren't supporting the US in anyway whatsoever, so they deserve absolutely nothing." had to double quote this line.

[close]

and you can't read. 

sorry you missed it but, TB said how boards are being made in mexcio(hence being made by mexican residents) and how those people should receive fair wages and benefits.

i'm simply stating that the mexicans he speaks of don't deserve that.  no fair wages, no benefits, that its strictly for tax paying americans.  does it make sense now?

[close]

I hope this is a joke... You think only "tax paying americans" support our lifestyles? We buy all the shit we do because it's affordable, because it's made by people desparate enough to take shit for pay. Non taxpaying non Americans support our lifestyle more than the legal residents. Most of our tax money goes to the military and "defending" our border, which at this point in history does shit for our "lifestyle." It's all economics... All of it. And if we paid people a living wage in places like Mexico we'd see a huge decrease in people being pushed and pulled illegally across the border. It's a little more complex than that but look at places like the EU. Those contries are the size of US state and you don't see the imigration problem we do here. Because the EU invests in the infastructure of poorer EU countries (like Slovakia and Poland) so they don't just become a source of cheap labor.

Do you think the US is better off treating the rest of the world like shit or turning a blind eye?

thats not at all what i'm saying.  i'm saying "fair wages and benefits" is an american concept for americans, founded by americans.  therefore this should not include anyone whos not american.  the term "living wage" is also american, coined by americans in regards to fair wages for tax paying american citizens, not mexicans, not ukraniains or anyone else. and when i say support, i don't mean lifestyle, i mean pay taxes, vote, and all that other the shit that makes us america.
 
and to asnwer your last question, "treating the world like shit" is a bit of a stretch but i do believe we should turn a blind eye towards everyone elses problems.  when we're in someone elses business and we get shitted on for it.  when we're not in someone elses business we get shitted on for it.  why even bother?, we're damned if we do, damned if we don't.    our country is fucked up enough as is and we should fix us, before helping someone else.  i say close all the borders and put up the closed sign.  i think we can fend for ourselves just fine and the rest of the planet can do whatever the hell they please, just don't bring it this way, and don't ask for our help then spit in our faces later down road like they always do. 

[I SUCK!]

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I'd love to hear what these so-called unsavory/sketchy business practices are?
Malls, discounts, Iasc, lame boards for the sake of profits?

Some of this stuff has been discussed, but that thread's gone now. If anyone has something to say, I'll give you our take and if we're sketchy, maybe I can change some crap.

[close]

I don't know much about any business practices, but how you treatin' them workers down in Mexico? They get any benefits? fair pay? What makes it cheaper to make boards in Mexico?

[close]

Yeah, they get benefits and solid pay. The thing they appreciate most is that they have steady work, that's hard to find in Mexico.
The cost of living is lower in Mexico therefore the rent and labor rate is lower.

Other companies make their boards in mexico for the same reasons.

[close]

Benefits are a start but "solid pay" doesn't tell me anything. I'm sure the landscaper who picks up migrants on the corner every morning thinks $6.00 an hour's solid pay. Is it a living wage? There's ways to figure that out and as a business ower it's your duty to do so if you care about social justice. Products can be certified as "fair trade" and I'm sure with a little research you could figure that out.

"Steady Work" sounds good but desparate people take shitty steady work because they're desparate. I'm sure prostitution's a steady gig.

How about that Theotis? "Do you think you'd have a good team if they had to work for free and you had no skate cred?" Real thought provoking...

Come on dude, you calling me out to impress Theotis?

Solid pay means we pay them the labor rate set by the goverment, so it's not a sweat shop.
Steady work means that things aren't exactly thriving in Tijuana, so they're psyched to have a job day in day out.

[Prison Wallet]

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I'd love to hear what these so-called unsavory/sketchy business practices are?
Malls, discounts, Iasc, lame boards for the sake of profits?

Some of this stuff has been discussed, but that thread's gone now. If anyone has something to say, I'll give you our take and if we're sketchy, maybe I can change some crap.

[close]

I don't know much about any business practices, but how you treatin' them workers down in Mexico? They get any benefits? fair pay? What makes it cheaper to make boards in Mexico?

[close]

Yeah, they get benefits and solid pay. The thing they appreciate most is that they have steady work, that's hard to find in Mexico.
The cost of living is lower in Mexico therefore the rent and labor rate is lower.

Other companies make their boards in mexico for the same reasons.

[close]

Benefits are a start but "solid pay" doesn't tell me anything. I'm sure the landscaper who picks up migrants on the corner every morning thinks $6.00 an hour's solid pay. Is it a living wage? There's ways to figure that out and as a business ower it's your duty to do so if you care about social justice. Products can be certified as "fair trade" and I'm sure with a little research you could figure that out.

"Steady Work" sounds good but desparate people take shitty steady work because they're desparate. I'm sure prostitution's a steady gig.

How about that Theotis? "Do you think you'd have a good team if they had to work for free and you had no skate cred?" Real thought provoking...

[close]

Come on dude, you calling me out to impress Theotis?

Solid pay means we pay them the labor rate set by the goverment, so it's not a sweat shop.
Steady work means that things aren't exactly thriving in Tijuana, so they're psyched to have a job day in day out.

I'm not "calling you out" because I don't know what your practices are... Just posing a question, and hope you look into that shit because your company rides on the back of real people. And I could care less about Theo... When he has good points cool, when he acts like a 13 yr old elitest and makes stupid posts I'll call him out. Subtract Theo from this discussion; are my questions valid?

And I don't need a definition of steady work. I know people living in poverty are stoked to have a day-in/day-out job but that doesn't justify not paying them a living wage. Giving people steady table scraps doesn't make a company just.

I'm not sure what a living wage is in Tijajuana but someone could figure it out. Benefits are cool, props for that. But based on what you pay your workers can they afford housing, food, and education for their kids?

I understand the importance of proximity for business reasons but I'm kinda bummed the factory's located in TJ. Maquiladoras in border towns cause migration from within Mexico, from rural to urban border areas which displaces families and puts the "have nots" right at our borders, ready to cross when things begin to look better over here.

I'm a realist and don't expect for you to move your plant inland to support rural people but looking into what a living wage is would be a good start. And that does not mean the same thing as Mexican minimum wage. The Mexican gov't is corrupt so the labor rate they set is shit. They want to attract American investors and don't have a good track record of treating their people with dignity. You can do better than that.   

[H8R]

I'm not "calling you out" because I don't know what your practices are... Just posing a question, and hope you look into that shit because your company rides on the back of real people. And I could care less about Theo... When he has good points cool, when he acts like a 13 yr old elitest and makes stupid posts I'll call him out. Subtract Theo from this discussion; are my questions valid?

And I don't need a definition of steady work. I know people living in poverty are stoked to have a day-in/day-out job but that doesn't justify not paying them a living wage. Giving people steady table scraps doesn't make a company just.

I'm not sure what a living wage is in Tijajuana but someone could figure it out. Benefits are cool, props for that. But based on what you pay your workers can they afford housing, food, and education for their kids?

I understand the importance of proximity for business reasons but I'm kinda bummed the factory's located in TJ. Maquiladoras in border towns cause migration from within Mexico, from rural to urban border areas which displaces families and puts the "have nots" right at our borders, ready to cross when things begin to look better over here.

I'm a realist and don't expect for you to move your plant inland to support rural people but looking into what a living wage is would be a good start. And that does not mean the same thing as Mexican minimum wage. The Mexican gov't is corrupt so the labor rate they set is shit. They want to attract American investors and don't have a good track record of treating their people with dignity. You can do better than that.   

i feel what you're saying, its hard to disagree with some of what you posted but jamie isn't running for political office and hes not running a charity, hes running a business.  you make it sound like he has to be this do-gooder in order to meet your unreasonably high expectations of what a company should be, is that even fair?   
you also make it sound like having a job is not a right, when in fact having a job is a privilage.  no one is forcing anyone at gunpoint to work for $5 and hour, its by their choice.  if someone doesn't want to work for $5 an hour, they should go to school, study hard, graduate college and make something of themselves.  don't put that lack of effort/resources on someone elses shoulders and cry for equality and fairness, life is supposed to be hard.   
heres one of my favorite quotes as of recent.  its from the rocky movie that came out a little while ago and i just love it...

"Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done. Now, if you know what you're worth, then go out and get what you're worth. But you gotta be willing to take the hit, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you are because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that and that ain't you. You're better than that!"    

[Prison Wallet]

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I'm not "calling you out" because I don't know what your practices are... Just posing a question, and hope you look into that shit because your company rides on the back of real people. And I could care less about Theo... When he has good points cool, when he acts like a 13 yr old elitest and makes stupid posts I'll call him out. Subtract Theo from this discussion; are my questions valid?

And I don't need a definition of steady work. I know people living in poverty are stoked to have a day-in/day-out job but that doesn't justify not paying them a living wage. Giving people steady table scraps doesn't make a company just.

I'm not sure what a living wage is in Tijajuana but someone could figure it out. Benefits are cool, props for that. But based on what you pay your workers can they afford housing, food, and education for their kids?

I understand the importance of proximity for business reasons but I'm kinda bummed the factory's located in TJ. Maquiladoras in border towns cause migration from within Mexico, from rural to urban border areas which displaces families and puts the "have nots" right at our borders, ready to cross when things begin to look better over here.

I'm a realist and don't expect for you to move your plant inland to support rural people but looking into what a living wage is would be a good start. And that does not mean the same thing as Mexican minimum wage. The Mexican gov't is corrupt so the labor rate they set is shit. They want to attract American investors and don't have a good track record of treating their people with dignity. You can do better than that.   

[close]

i feel what you're saying, its hard to disagree with some of what you posted but jamie isn't running for political office and hes not running a charity, hes running a business.  you make it sound like he has to be this do-gooder in order to meet your unreasonably high expectations of what a company should be, is that even fair?   
you also make it sound like having a job is not a right, when in fact having a job is a privilage.  no one is forcing anyone at gunpoint to work for $5 and hour, its by their choice.  if someone doesn't want to work for $5 an hour, they should go to school, study hard, graduate college and make something of themselves.  don't put that lack of effort/resources on someone elses shoulders and cry for equality and fairness, life is supposed to be hard.   
heres one of my favorite quotes as of recent.  its from the rocky movie that came out a little while ago and i just love it...
   

First off the only Rocky you should be quoting is Rocky 4. Ivan Drago kicked ass.

Secondly, treating people right isn't about charity or political office. You treat people right because if you don't you're an asshole. That goes for whatever your lot in life is.

That said it's easy for me to take the moral high ground because it's not my bread and butter. So in a sense you're right, it's not fair to hold him to some unrealistic standard. But fair or not I hope as a business owner he would hope his employees aren't being taken advantage of.

 And the "work is a privelidge not a right" is stupid. It's neither. If you've got mouths to feed it's a necessity. And just because people take shit jobs for shit pay without a gun to their head doesn't let the shit owner off the hook. Desparate people do desparate things to make ends.

My guess is Jaimie is pretty removed from the factory workers and what the make, in proportion to thier cost of living. I'm sure he's got a lot on his plate and rests well with providing steady work for his Mexican employees paying Mexican minimums plus bennies. But it'd be cool if he took it to the next level produced a fair trade product.   

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Oh Theo... Read this again:

Benefits are a start but "solid pay" doesn't tell me anything. I'm sure the landscaper who picks up migrants on the corner every morning thinks $6.00 an hour's solid pay. Is it a living wage? There's ways to figure that out and as a business ower it's your duty to do so if you care about social justice. Products can be certified as "fair trade" and I'm sure with a little research you could figure that out.

"Steady Work" sounds good but desparate people take shitty steady work because they're desparate. I'm sure prostitution's a steady gig.
_______________________________________________________________________________

Yeah, I'm defending his honor... And who's not reading up on this post? And maybe I misread or misconstrued your post but I thought you basically asked Jaimie, "would you have such a solid team if you didn't pay your riders and you weren't a legend?" What's the relevance there? Anyone? You were illustrating the point that it takes money and cred to establish a good team? Whoa... Earth shattering. But it's not all money and cred, those dudes skate for who they do 'cause they fit the gnar hesh image. Except for the Scottsman. I still can't figure that one out. Maybe that one is just money and cred.   

Just because I don't post stupid shit every chance I get don't think I don't read up or am out of the loop of your stupid ass exclusive slap message board club. Maybe I skate more than I post.   

Look at the shit "row from the rocks" wrote. ME and HIM were discussing his assumption that because the riders go hard on the boards, that they must be stronger, implying that the product has anything to do with their endorsment. Yes, I did point out the obvious, but it was relevant to the conversation at hand. Then you bust in talking all sorts of shit as if I am an idiot for clearly stating something. And I don't see how saying Jamie Thomas is an icon or legend requires anybody to step up to bat for him. But if you want to, go ahead. Do you get it yet? How about this, since you clearly need shit spelled out for you. I WAS IN NO WAY ATTACKING JAMIE THOMAS. Get it? Its kind of rediculous to step in front of a bullet that hasn't been fired. And just so you know, check the IP on the past few posts. I was at work. Maybe you are a better worker than me, but I doubt you skate more.

[H8R]

i think we can all agree that skateboarding in general is just plain expensive right?  well the price of skateboards has been the same since i started(back in 86-87), while the price of everything anything else on the planet has gone up.
perhaps companies have no choice but to take their production to other countries, otherwise they'll end up having to jack up the price of boards to something more ridiculous than $50.  would you pay $100 if it were made in the USA?  would you pay $75? 
i think companies are worried about keeping the price of decks down more than anything else.  of course i'd like a better board, we all do, but i know for sure i wouldn't pay out $75 let alone a $100 for a board no matter how good it was...not because i'm poor, just based on principle.

just another factor to think about.   

[Prison Wallet]

ME and HIM were discussing his assumption that because the riders go hard on the boards, that they must be stronger, implying that the product has anything to do with their endorsment."

I get it... In your mind this is some exclusive club... Sorry bud, this a MESSAGE BOARD, open to the public. In essence you were discussing your views with everyone who looks at these boards.  

"I WAS IN NO WAY ATTACKING JAMIE THOMAS." Maybe you're on his nuts for spelling this out in all caps; I could care less if you were attacking him or not. I just read something that didn't make sense.

Dude I'm sorry if I raised your blood pressure. I just saw what looked like a dumb post and called it out. My bad if I misconstrued what you were trying to say. I'm more interested in the global issues at hand in regards to skateboarding and overseas production. If you or Jaime or anyone else ignore the free trade/fair trade issues discussed here as of late because you get side tracked on some stupid beef that's lame.

[nomad]

I just worry about how much money is going into my pocket. I don't give two shits how much is going into anyone elses.

Maybe some of you guys should just go cut down and veneer some of your own trees. Make your own boards.

[art hellman]

[H8R]

thats just too gnarly, i'm quitting skateboarding and moving to extreme pogo! 

[Prison Wallet]

Just hit me that's Andy Mac. Nice business venture.

[I SUCK!]

You guys got your own beef going on, but to address your points Jessico...

Our factory is just outside of TJ and it's where it is because it's got a good place of industry to house the factory and it's accessible for us to manage. We bus people in to work from TJ and a few smaller rural places so they don't have to move their families. The salaries are set by the goverment and I believe they've taken into consideration what someone needs to eat on. I didn't interview every employee, so I'm sure they all have different needs, but our managers do their best to accomodate.

Is our wood factory the reason people say we have unsavory/sketchy business practices, probably not. Anyone else have any issues?