Joe Castrucci: WORSE Than Jamie

[sweets]

When is the battle withe Goth guy going down? That would be priceless.

[I SUCK!]

When is the battle withe Goth guy going down? That would be priceless.

I don't know, I just posted on the myspace thread and told him I'm down to come to Kansas City, so we'll see.

[otis b driftwood]

Anyone else have any issues?

just your shitty companies, team and videos.

and 'chief', i'm not gnarly, i'm fresh, ok?

[I SUCK!]

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Anyone else have any issues?

[close]

just your shitty companies, team and videos.

and 'chief', i'm not gnarly, i'm fresh, ok?

Our company, team and videos sucking are irrelevant to business practices, but thanks for the reminder that we suck.
Not to get all Nevermore on you, but you never post anything positive, you're the ultimate "cool guy."
I hope to meet you one day, so I can be blessed by your coolness.

[otis b driftwood]

we met a long time ago.

you had the stars and stripes painted on your grip.

[Prison Wallet]

You guys got your own beef going on, but to address your points Jessico...

Our factory is just outside of TJ and it's where it is because it's got a good place of industry to house the factory and it's accessible for us to manage. We bus people in to work from TJ and a few smaller rural places so they don't have to move their families. The salaries are set by the goverment and I believe they've taken into consideration what someone needs to eat on. I didn't interview every employee, so I'm sure they all have different needs, but our managers do their best to accomodate.

Is our wood factory the reason people say we have unsavory/sketchy business practices, probably not. Anyone else have any issues?

Good point... The unsavory/sketchy business practices bullshit I read on here, in my mind, all comes down image/marketing/style. And maybe some personal beef mixed in there.Combine all that with the fact that you put yourself out here for people to beat up on. No one goes after the other distros like they do Blackbox and pisses me off how people let the other companies slide who press boards overseas and market to malls. And truth be told, even if you ran the most ethical fair trade cooperative in all of Mexico, people who don't like the Blackbox image still wouldn't buy.

That said, I just hope you're intentional about your business practices in Mexico. Which means more than relying on the Mexican government to set fair minimum wages. The Mexican elite make bank off foreign investment and intentionally set minimums low to attract the production sector. The latest figures I could find were for 2006, and at that time Mexican minimum wage was $4.20 per day. That's shitty even when taking into consideration the cost of living in Mexico. The factor in a few kids to feed and education.

Another aspect of Maquiladora production is the exploitation of women and the use of Mexican cultural norms to set wages. Mexico traditionally pays women far less than men and its common practice for Maquiladoras to hire women and pay them less to cut production costs. That's something to check out with your managers and make sure women are getting equal pay for equal work.

I don't expect you to go down and interview every employee or set up a fair trade coop in rural Mexico. But looking at fair trade standards to see how Blackbox compares would be a stand up thing to do.

[I SUCK!]

we met a long time ago.

you had the stars and stripes painted on your grip.

In Europe?

[otis b driftwood]

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we met a long time ago.

you had the stars and stripes painted on your grip.

[close]

In Europe?

yea, somewhere like that.

[Row From The Rocks]

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You guys got your own beef going on, but to address your points Jessico...

Our factory is just outside of TJ and it's where it is because it's got a good place of industry to house the factory and it's accessible for us to manage. We bus people in to work from TJ and a few smaller rural places so they don't have to move their families. The salaries are set by the goverment and I believe they've taken into consideration what someone needs to eat on. I didn't interview every employee, so I'm sure they all have different needs, but our managers do their best to accomodate.

Is our wood factory the reason people say we have unsavory/sketchy business practices, probably not. Anyone else have any issues?

[close]

Good point... The unsavory/sketchy business practices bullshit I read on here, in my mind, all comes down image/marketing/style. And maybe some personal beef mixed in there.Combine all that with the fact that you put yourself out here for people to beat up on. No one goes after the other distros like they do Blackbox and pisses me off how people let the other companies slide who press boards overseas and market to malls. And truth be told, even if you ran the most ethical fair trade cooperative in all of Mexico, people who don't like the Blackbox image still wouldn't buy.

That said, I just hope you're intentional about your business practices in Mexico. Which means more than relying on the Mexican government to set fair minimum wages. The Mexican elite make bank off foreign investment and intentionally set minimums low to attract the production sector. The latest figures I could find were for 2006, and at that time Mexican minimum wage was $4.20 per day. That's shitty even when taking into consideration the cost of living in Mexico. The factor in a few kids to feed and education.

Another aspect of Maquiladora production is the exploitation of women and the use of Mexican cultural norms to set wages. Mexico traditionally pays women far less than men and its common practice for Maquiladoras to hire women and pay them less to cut production costs. That's something to check out with your managers and make sure women are getting equal pay for equal work.

I don't expect you to go down and interview every employee or set up a fair trade coop in rural Mexico. But looking at fair trade standards to see how Blackbox compares would be a stand up thing to do.

I'm gonna throw this out there again:
It's pretty clear that the US is moving toward a service economy and can't compete on any level in terms of manufacture. Skateboards have been slow to move overseas because the wood is tempermental and the product wasn't produced in quantities high enough to warrant it until recently. The US has one of the highest standards of living and as long as the market demands $30 boards and US workers demand $30 an hour companies will move their wood overseas. Where it gets tricky is that the woodshops that supplied US board companies so long are still around - and they've lowered their minimums to accomodate shop boards and stay in business. Keep in mind that there's a fair amount of employees working in Southern California woodshops whose citezenship is questionable. It's not like buying American boards necessarily puts cash in skaters pockets and Mexico seems to be a good alternative to China - who everyone seems to think makes shit boards.

Are you asking Jamie to single handedly bring US standards of living to Mexico? Are you willing to pay more for your board or take your standard of living down a notch? Or are you just pointing out that Mexico is poorer than the US and since it's close it's easy for US companies to take advantage of the cheap labor?

[Row From The Rocks]

I'll agree with one thing, talking about low wages in wood shops when applied to Black Box is regular. Why not shoot an email over to Crailtap - or harass Cliff or something.

[Prison Wallet]

I'll agree with one thing, talking about low wages in wood shops when applied to Black Box is regular. Why not shoot an email over to Crailtap - or harass Cliff or something.

Word... Girl distro deserves all the same hate Blackbox gets.

And Row from the Rocks you make some good points... Globalization shit's complicated any way you slice it. And I'm not saying pay Mexican workers California minimum wage. I'm saying translate the California minimum wage into a Mexican equivilant by factoring the differences in cost of living. I'd bet the bank that comes out to more the 4 or 5 bucks a day. And pay female employees the same as male. Period.

And would I pay $80 a board for that, no. But I would pay a few more bucks per board.   

Look, we've got the problems we do with immigration/economics because we've got the haves living next door to the have nots. There are the Mexican elite but they are the huge minority, and the Mexican working class is really pretty poor. I just wish the US gov't would be long sighted and proactive. Instead of throwing BILLIONS of dollars into a dumbshit border fence and more inforcement, how about investing in Mexican infastruction and small business with low or no interest loans? Why not up the environmental/labor standards so Mexican laborers would want to actually stay in Mexico. Why not put real pressure on the Mexican gov't to really clean up it's corrupt act? And these aren't my untested lofty from behind the computer aspirations. This is what the EU does every time it takes in a new country to prevent the shit we're dealing with here. The Eastern Block countries were facing similar social situations Mexico has but the EU equals the playing feild before membership is granted. Now that's some smart shit and it pisses me off the US instead exploits it's neighbor and builds a fence to try and contain them.

[I SUCK!]

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we met a long time ago.

you had the stars and stripes painted on your grip.

[close]

In Europe?

[close]

yea, somewhere like that.

Did you tell me how rad you were?

[otis b driftwood]

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we met a long time ago.

you had the stars and stripes painted on your grip.

[close]

In Europe?

[close]

yea, somewhere like that.

[close]

Did you tell me how rad you were?

nah, we were making fun of how you and rowley were dressed the same and following each other about, i think you heard us.

[sweets]

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I'll agree with one thing, talking about low wages in wood shops when applied to Black Box is regular. Why not shoot an email over to Crailtap - or harass Cliff or something.

[close]

Word... Girl distro deserves all the same hate Blackbox gets.

And Row from the Rocks you make some good points... Globalization shit's complicated any way you slice it. And I'm not saying pay Mexican workers California minimum wage. I'm saying translate the California minimum wage into a Mexican equivilant by factoring the differences in cost of living. I'd bet the bank that comes out to more the 4 or 5 bucks a day. And pay female employees the same as male. Period.

And would I pay $80 a board for that, no. But I would pay a few more bucks per board.   

Look, we've got the problems we do with immigration/economics because we've got the haves living next door to the have nots. There are the Mexican elite but they are the huge minority, and the Mexican working class is really pretty poor. I just wish the US gov't would be long sighted and proactive. Instead of throwing BILLIONS of dollars into a dumbshit border fence and more inforcement, how about investing in Mexican infastruction and small business with low or no interest loans? Why not up the environmental/labor standards so Mexican laborers would want to actually stay in Mexico. Why not put real pressure on the Mexican gov't to really clean up it's corrupt act? And these aren't my untested lofty from behind the computer aspirations. This is what the EU does every time it takes in a new country to prevent the shit we're dealing with here. The Eastern Block countries were facing similar social situations Mexico has but the EU equals the playing feild before membership is granted. Now that's some smart shit and it pisses me off the US instead exploits it's neighbor and builds a fence to try and contain them.

I've thought along these lines for years and it was reinforced when I lived in SD. This a part of having a completely capitalist government. The dollar means more than anything, even what's best for humanity. With that said, Jamie (and any other entrepreneur) are dealing with the system we have now. I would rather support Mexican made boards than China made boards. It's choosing the lesser of 2 evils.

[otis b driftwood]

I would rather support Mexican made boards than China made boards. It's choosing the lesser of 2 evils.

you realise that lot of people around the world would see the us as the most evil of the three?

[sebastian toombs]

mexicans are less evil than chinese -- got it.

[Prison Wallet]

True enough... I'd buy Mexican too over China, but I hope things move more towards equity across the border. Immigration'll stay a mess if it doesn't.

And true, industry heads do have to opperate in the system we live in. And Jaimie doesn't have shit to prove to this message board--most kids who post here are stupid anyway. That said he's got the opportunity to raise the bar in the industry.

[sweets]

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I would rather support Mexican made boards than China made boards. It's choosing the lesser of 2 evils.

[close]

you realise that lot of people around the world would see the us as the most evil of the three?

mexicans are less evil than chinese -- got it.

No, you missed the point entirely. Both governments lack certain ethics (as well as the USA) but if I had to choose where to buy decks from, it would be Mexico. Mexican and Chinese people are great. I truly respect and admire their cultures. I'm not rascist and I resent you insuating I am. And, while the USA is not exactly the most ethical government in the world, I stand a better chance of not getting shot at a protest here than in China (although, in LA, it's entirely possible). EVERY business worldwide should use their influence to raise the standard everywhere they conduct business. Reality is, C.R.E.A.M. and every business understands that and won't change their practices because of it.

[brooklyn brawler]

Canadian wood is always more erect.

[Prison Wallet]

mexicans are less evil than chinese -- got it.

Chinese wood sits on a boat for a long time, twice.
Chinese glue sucks.
Chinese environmental/labor practices are worse.
Takes more fossile fuels to ship wood back and forth across the Pacific than drive them up from TJ.
Mexico is our neighbor--helping develop their economy makes sense.

[I SUCK!]

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we met a long time ago.

you had the stars and stripes painted on your grip.

[close]

In Europe?

[close]

yea, somewhere like that.

[close]

Did you tell me how rad you were?

[close]

nah, we were making fun of how you and rowley were dressed the same and following each other about, i think you heard us.

You were making fun of me and Rowley at Munster, wow, you've been cool for a long time, that was 1995...keep up the good work.

[TROPICS]

otis is deftly placing himself in serious contention with when brooklyn brawler got his shrinkwrapped spoon tape signed by dill in his mid-twenties

[otis b driftwood]

otis is deftly placing himself in serious contention with when brooklyn brawler got his shrinkwrapped spoon tape signed by dill in his mid-twenties

except like you, i am a habitual liar.

[brooklyn brawler]

zing!

[Prison Wallet]

I also can't believe the free pass Girl/Chocolate get on all this sort of shit.

Thank you. That said just because Girl's worse doesn't give Blackbox a free pass. The fair trade shit we've discussed still applies.

[j....soy.....]

but those girl guys are like....cool and shit....

[sweets]

I wouldn't buy either one. If I bought boards, I'd go with Penn wood or Gangemi's jawn.

[picklesickshuv-it]

haha
yeah I got beef with girl too.  Love the team, image, clothes etc ...  but those dudes(upstairs) fuckin suck.  At least jamie has a building full (75%)of skaters working there. he could hire cheaper, better, imported help, but he hires die trying, gilley, drake, and so many dudes who only got there foot in the door for a sec.  Everybody can be a snake or a shark or a platypus at somepoint.

[Prison Wallet]

Finally... I've been trying to get some Girl hate stirred up for a while...

[TROPICS]

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otis is deftly placing himself in serious contention with when brooklyn brawler got his shrinkwrapped spoon tape signed by dill in his mid-twenties

[close]

except like you, i am a habitual liar.

oh, rad. ominous baseless stab.