Investing?

[igrindtwinkies]

I put most of my end of year bonus into SPY this year.  I didn't realize VOO has slightly lower fees.  Not enough to withdraw and reinvest, but for future reference I will be buying VOO.

[newguy]

Yeah sure let me « invest » in fake shit dreamed up by the utterly deranged who gorge on the labor of workers and the destruction of our planet.

fucking hell

[streetmeat]

about 6 months ago i dumped the majority of my savings into a HYOS account thats currently at 4.25% APY. also got into the i-bond thing when it was at 9.62% and maxed out the $10k on it.

[PatrickSkateman]

Index funds all day.

Vanguard VTSAX was always my favorite.

[TheLurper]

How are everyone's investments doing? The DOW isn't that too from its pandemic peak.


Also, as I'm typing this out, this whole investment things strikes me as completely absurd. The avg retirement savings for someone in their thirties is around is $30,000-ish. Even if someone received some crazy 10% return on their investments, they'd only get 3K in return. That'll really help pay for retirement. 

[Nosferatu]

How are everyone's investments doing? The DOW isn't that too from its pandemic peak.


Also, as I'm typing this out, this whole investment things strikes me as completely absurd. The avg retirement savings for someone in their thirties is around is $30,000-ish. Even if someone received some crazy 10% return on their investments, they'd only get 3K in return. That'll really help pay for retirement. 

If your post isn’t a joke… google “compound interest”  and then mess around with this thing

[TheLurper]

Expand Quote

How are everyone's investments doing? The DOW isn't that too from its pandemic peak.


Also, as I'm typing this out, this whole investment things strikes me as completely absurd. The avg retirement savings for someone in their thirties is around is $30,000-ish. Even if someone received some crazy 10% return on their investments, they'd only get 3K in return. That'll really help pay for retirement. 

[close]

If your post isn’t a joke… google “compound interest”  and then mess around with this thing

@Nosferatu Thanks for posting this. This is a handy tool. However, it still doesn't make me feel like retirement will be an enjoyable thing for most people relying on their 401K.

I recently changed jobs so things might be rosier than this picture, but let's stick with an example from my last job, which I was in for 5 years.

Over those 5 years, I put in an average 400 a month and my 401K's avg return was 5.2%. Assuming this rate of return over a 32 year period and assuming I increase my contribution to coincide with inflation over the next 32 years (even though inflation was often higher than my usual 2% raise), I'll have 600K or the equivalent of 226K in today's dollars. And, with a 3.3% draw down each year that means I'll be able to pull out nearly 1,650 per month in future dollars, which are equal to $621 per month in today's dollars.

And, while this picture might be a bit drab as it doesn't include career changes that might come with more money, but it also doesn't account for for the fees the 401K service provider charge me, the potential of having to borrow against the 401K for a home, medical, or general hardship, or being between jobs and not being able to put money into the 401K.

I don't see how investing is going to work for the average person.

[igrindtwinkies]

Why are you only looking at how the market has done the last five years?  The majority of that was covid related madness.  Take a look at what the market did in 2008, and then what it did in the years following if you want it to make more sense.

[TheLurper]

Why are you only looking at how the market has done the last five years?  The majority of that was covid related madness.  Take a look at what the market did in 2008, and then what it did in the years following if you want it to make more sense.

While including the recent covid up and down and up might throw things off a bit, I feel starting at the bottom of the 2008/9 would paint a picture that is unlikely to occur again.

The avg rate of return on a 401K is 5% to 8%. So, I land right within the low-end of that range.
https://time.com/personal-finance/article/average-return-rate-on-401k/

If we take 8% and keep all the other numbers the same, we get 917K future dollars or 356K of today's dollars. This is monthly draw down payment of 2,500 in future dollars or 979 of today's dollars. This was the reward for giving up nearly 10% of my monthly pre-tax income.

My point is even with decent returns the amount of money most people are investing doesn't matter. Like, we are allowed to play a game that benefits us marginally, which gets us to support a system that benefits the real rich who don't need to work. Or, we can engage in risky WSB YOLO investments or crypto, which is basically the same thing.

Maybe, real estate is the only option for real returns, but only if one is wealthy enough to afford the down payment and qualify for the loan. And, it is currently cheaper to rent in most cities than it is to own. Even though this will probably change once interest rates come down.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/real-estate-cheaper-to-buy-than-rent-four-cities-home-prices-mortgage-rates/

[IUTSM]

I dont know much about investing, a little bit, but isnt the greatest manner of wealth transfer/gain occurring through home/property ownership?

Regarding investments and markets, ive got a friend who recently inherited a couple million USD. Hearing about the rates of return and options of what not available to someone like me vs them is vastly different. The more they invest at once (100k) the interest rate went up like 50% from what someone gets investing under 100k.

Madness. All if it

[igrindtwinkies]

Expand Quote

Why are you only looking at how the market has done the last five years?  The majority of that was covid related madness.  Take a look at what the market did in 2008, and then what it did in the years following if you want it to make more sense.

[close]

While including the recent covid up and down and up might throw things off a bit, I feel starting at the bottom of the 2008/9 would paint a picture that is unlikely to occur again.

The avg rate of return on a 401K is 5% to 8%. So, I land right within the low-end of that range.
https://time.com/personal-finance/article/average-return-rate-on-401k/

If we take 8% and keep all the other numbers the same, we get 917K future dollars or 356K of today's dollars. This is monthly draw down payment of 2,500 in future dollars or 979 of today's dollars. This was the reward for giving up nearly 10% of my monthly pre-tax income.

My point is even with decent returns the amount of money most people are investing doesn't matter. Like, we are allowed to play a game that benefits us marginally, which gets us to support a system that benefits the real rich who don't need to work. Or, we can engage in risky WSB YOLO investments or crypto, which is basically the same thing.

Maybe, real estate is the only option for real returns, but only if one is wealthy enough to afford the down payment and qualify for the loan. And, it is currently cheaper to rent in most cities than it is to own. Even though this will probably change once interest rates come down.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/real-estate-cheaper-to-buy-than-rent-four-cities-home-prices-mortgage-rates/

"What is considered a good 401(k) return?

Krisstin Petersmarck, an investment advisor representative at Bridegriver Advisors in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, claimed  the average annual return for a 401(k), based on a standard portfolio mix of 60% stocks and 40% bonds, is 5% to 8%.“Whether a 401(k) return is good or not really depends on how it is invested,” she said."

From the article you posted, this lady is putting 40 percent of her money in bonds.  From my understanding, bonds are more for late in life, low risk investing.  More suited for someone in their 50's.  Money put in index funds has an average return of like 8 percent.  Money left in the S&P 500 doubles itself on average every 8 years.

I used 2008 as an example because that is usually the first thing people mention when they try to bash on investing money.  The system sucks, but I'd rather earn 8 percent on my money rather than letting it sit in a bank account getting slowly eaten at by inflation.

[Nosferatu]

Yeah your 401k won’t automatically set you up for life but it is going to do more than any other alternative with a similar risk level. In the US you will also have social security benefits. The two ways to have more money in retirement is to increase your salary or tighten down your budget and invest a larger percentage. No other cheat codes that I know of other than being born rich or inheriting a bunch of money…

[ValentinaPrince]

Keep up the good work in making mindful investment decisions! If you have questions about these strategies, don't hesitate to seek advice from financial experts for personalized guidance.

[masieltimer]

Ah, investing in SPY is a solid move! Don't sweat the fee difference too much; it's often marginal in the grand scheme. However, shifting to VOO for future buys shows your commitment to optimizing. Speaking of optimizing, have you explored strategies like backdoor Roth IRA 2023 for potential retirement benefits? It involves tactical conversions that might offer tax advantages.

[Hevonen]

Put $50 in crypto two years ago while drunk and bought two random coins. One went up like 60% in the first month and I cashed out $50 cause I was running low on cash. Then forgot password and couldn't login for two years untill new years eve when I finally figured it out and my balance has gone up to $149!!! Looks like I'm one of those crypto geniuses