Author Topic: NYTimes: In Brooklyn a Fight Over Paving Over Parkland for Skateboarding  (Read 4751 times)

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headtowall

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Conflicted on this. While I do think those people in the articles are just NIMBYs, honestly I would prefer to keep Prospect as green as possible and use a shittier/already less green public space for a park (there are many around the city).  The strength of Prospect is that it's big and green and dense. I would say the same thing if they were proposing 8 new basketball courts or whatever. Just keep the trees.

And like @Mandatory Reload said... just do Brower first. That place has a huge community of skaters around it that need it so bad.
[close]

Agree with all of this. In a city already suffering from urban heat island effect, we shouldn’t be taking out green space (and should be adding green space in underserved communities). The city has been spending so much money on skateparks, sometimes very close together, when what we really need is more plaza space. If they want to build something in this area, it would make a lot more sense to build a little plaza for both skating and the public at Grand Army Plaza. There’s tons of unused space there and I think the DOT is planning a redesign anyways.

Also adding my support for Brower first. Was my local for a bit and while it has its charm, it is in desperate need of a revamp.
[close]

Yeah I agree about Brower Park.  Bedstuy/Crown Heights could use a proper skatepark and the space is already there.  Last summer I skated there and met the kid who pours concrete on the ground and skreets it to make it more skateable. 

There’s no reason to remove what little green space we already have at Prospect Park.
am i losing my fucking mind? pospect park is fucking 526 arces with so much green space, taking a portion on the north side of the park thats already busy is a loss to who?

TheDraught

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One argument I haven’t read here yet is that you shouldn’t seal the ground at all, for reasons of ecological preservation, ground water conservation etc. That’s what killed the skatepark that was briefly on the table in my German suburb in ca 2000. They wanted to build a skatepark but couldnt get a permit to cover up the random field where it was to be. The last suggestion before the project died was to put a pyramid in the middle and have four narrow strips of brick run towards the four sides of it.

Guess every country has their own set of concerns.

Basically you could design an ecofriendly skatepark, for instance:

- collect rain water with special drains in bowls and recycle it to water the rest of the park during heat waves. You can even make it into an obstacle like the drain in the fountain at Flushing Meadows

- paint everything white so it will reflect almost all the heat back instead of absorbing it (like tarmac does i.e). This will not be easy on the eyes on sunny days, but great at night as you will need less lights, kind of like a full moon night

- incorporate as much grass, plants and trees as possible. Think of a Carlsbad High grass gap instead of stairs, or a tree next to a hip you can wallie it or something

- All sitting space could be grass too with some benches.

- Use solar power with batteries to power lights at night. Solar panels can be installed above some areas of the park. In theory you could even create a small covered/rainproof part. This will also reduce the reflection of the area.
 

Would be cool if someone designed a park like this. Since skateboarding is a CO2-neutral sport it could actually reduce the ecological footprint of (part of) a park, especially compared to a grassy field full of dog feces.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2024, 10:30:07 AM by TheDraught »

newspaperparty

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i hate to say it but i agree with the NIMBYs on this one. new york needs to hold on to what little green space it has.

there are already plenty of underutilized places where pavement already exists and skaters would love to have a small spot/plaza/park.

in my neighborhood alone there are at least 3 different parks with big ass paved areas that have no clear purpose. throw a few obstacles in and call it a day.

look at american playground, thomas payne, blue park, or k bridge. just put some ledges, curbs, and a quarter pipe on some tennis court that nobody uses and we'll be psyched. those spots all get skated a lot.

let pat smith or alexis sablone design it because they have a proven track record designing spots like that, and they actually understand what makes skating in NYC unique.

but our current mayor eric adams is literally brain damaged and thinks he hears voices telling him to do stupid shit like this

All of this. It's a shame that this wasn't on my radar sooner or I would've showed up to community meetings for this and tried to pitch my two cents. Seems like the funding has gone through but it's not like they've broken ground or anything so I'm wondering if there may still be time to change someones' mind and point this is a better direction.

Maurice46

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i hate to say it but i agree with the NIMBYs on this one. new york needs to hold on to what little green space it has.

there are already plenty of underutilized places where pavement already exists and skaters would love to have a small spot/plaza/park.

in my neighborhood alone there are at least 3 different parks with big ass paved areas that have no clear purpose. throw a few obstacles in and call it a day.

look at american playground, thomas payne, blue park, or k bridge. just put some ledges, curbs, and a quarter pipe on some tennis court that nobody uses and we'll be psyched. those spots all get skated a lot.

let pat smith or alexis sablone design it because they have a proven track record designing spots like that, and they actually understand what makes skating in NYC unique.

but our current mayor eric adams is literally brain damaged and thinks he hears voices telling him to do stupid shit like this
[close]

All of this. It's a shame that this wasn't on my radar sooner or I would've showed up to community meetings for this and tried to pitch my two cents. Seems like the funding has gone through but it's not like they've broken ground or anything so I'm wondering if there may still be time to change someones' mind and point this is a better direction.

This project uses 12% of an 8-acre site. Minimal impact on green space. Also, there aren't many unused paved areas in New York City parks. These places often have sports like softball, pickleball, and kickball, even if you don't see them happening. I enjoy simpler, DIY-ish parks for skating, but this project has a different purpose and scope, which is a good thing and adds to the diversity of skate options in the city. Seems odd and arbitrary to me that anyone would have an issue with this.

MareVitals

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Conflicted on this. While I do think those people in the articles are just NIMBYs, honestly I would prefer to keep Prospect as green as possible and use a shittier/already less green public space for a park (there are many around the city).  The strength of Prospect is that it's big and green and dense. I would say the same thing if they were proposing 8 new basketball courts or whatever. Just keep the trees.

And like @Mandatory Reload said... just do Brower first. That place has a huge community of skaters around it that need it so bad.
[close]

Agree with all of this. In a city already suffering from urban heat island effect, we shouldn’t be taking out green space (and should be adding green space in underserved communities). The city has been spending so much money on skateparks, sometimes very close together, when what we really need is more plaza space. If they want to build something in this area, it would make a lot more sense to build a little plaza for both skating and the public at Grand Army Plaza. There’s tons of unused space there and I think the DOT is planning a redesign anyways.

Also adding my support for Brower first. Was my local for a bit and while it has its charm, it is in desperate need of a revamp.
[close]

Yeah I agree about Brower Park.  Bedstuy/Crown Heights could use a proper skatepark and the space is already there.  Last summer I skated there and met the kid who pours concrete on the ground and skreets it to make it more skateable. 

There’s no reason to remove what little green space we already have at Prospect Park.
[close]
am i losing my fucking mind? pospect park is fucking 526 arces with so much green space, taking a portion on the north side of the park thats already busy is a loss to who?

I guarantee you everyone saying this has not been to mount prospect. There is nothing there. It is an empty field at the top of some stairs. I have explored every inch of prospect Park on my bike. It's funny nobody has a problem putting in a dog park and concert area by the zoo in there, where there is actually stuff resembling wooded trails, but paving over an already flat field is a no go.

TheDraught

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i hate to say it but i agree with the NIMBYs on this one. new york needs to hold on to what little green space it has.

there are already plenty of underutilized places where pavement already exists and skaters would love to have a small spot/plaza/park.

in my neighborhood alone there are at least 3 different parks with big ass paved areas that have no clear purpose. throw a few obstacles in and call it a day.

look at american playground, thomas payne, blue park, or k bridge. just put some ledges, curbs, and a quarter pipe on some tennis court that nobody uses and we'll be psyched. those spots all get skated a lot.

let pat smith or alexis sablone design it because they have a proven track record designing spots like that, and they actually understand what makes skating in NYC unique.

but our current mayor eric adams is literally brain damaged and thinks he hears voices telling him to do stupid shit like this
[close]

All of this. It's a shame that this wasn't on my radar sooner or I would've showed up to community meetings for this and tried to pitch my two cents. Seems like the funding has gone through but it's not like they've broken ground or anything so I'm wondering if there may still be time to change someones' mind and point this is a better direction.
[close]

This project uses 12% of an 8-acre site. Minimal impact on green space. Also, there aren't many unused paved areas in New York City parks. These places often have sports like softball, pickleball, and kickball, even if you don't see them happening. I enjoy simpler, DIY-ish parks for skating, but this project has a different purpose and scope, which is a good thing and adds to the diversity of skate options in the city. Seems odd and arbitrary to me that anyone would have an issue with this.

Skateboarding is a very space efficient sport. I don't know much about golfing but that's probably the least efficient. 

But if you take for example tennis, four courts can be used by 16 people at once playing doubles.

In the same space you could build a skatepark that 50 skaters can easily use at the same time, or even a 100 skaters with and a bit more time between tricks.

Iirc this is also one of the reasons why some Scandinavian cities promote skateboarding and build big parks, also because it's more multicultural (and less expensive) than traditional European sports like soccer, field hockey, swimming and athletics. 

newspaperparty

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Conflicted on this. While I do think those people in the articles are just NIMBYs, honestly I would prefer to keep Prospect as green as possible and use a shittier/already less green public space for a park (there are many around the city).  The strength of Prospect is that it's big and green and dense. I would say the same thing if they were proposing 8 new basketball courts or whatever. Just keep the trees.

And like @Mandatory Reload said... just do Brower first. That place has a huge community of skaters around it that need it so bad.
[close]

Agree with all of this. In a city already suffering from urban heat island effect, we shouldn’t be taking out green space (and should be adding green space in underserved communities). The city has been spending so much money on skateparks, sometimes very close together, when what we really need is more plaza space. If they want to build something in this area, it would make a lot more sense to build a little plaza for both skating and the public at Grand Army Plaza. There’s tons of unused space there and I think the DOT is planning a redesign anyways.

Also adding my support for Brower first. Was my local for a bit and while it has its charm, it is in desperate need of a revamp.
[close]

Yeah I agree about Brower Park.  Bedstuy/Crown Heights could use a proper skatepark and the space is already there.  Last summer I skated there and met the kid who pours concrete on the ground and skreets it to make it more skateable. 

There’s no reason to remove what little green space we already have at Prospect Park.
[close]
am i losing my fucking mind? pospect park is fucking 526 arces with so much green space, taking a portion on the north side of the park thats already busy is a loss to who?
[close]

I guarantee you everyone saying this has not been to mount prospect. There is nothing there. It is an empty field at the top of some stairs. I have explored every inch of prospect Park on my bike. It's funny nobody has a problem putting in a dog park and concert area by the zoo in there, where there is actually stuff resembling wooded trails, but paving over an already flat field is a no go.

I get that mount prospect is a nothing space, but I still think we need to preserve greenery/permeable surfacing where we can.

I also think that the type of project they are proposing is not what skateboarding needs in New York City. Just my opinion, but I think we could benefit more from a street-accessible plaza to skate at Grand Army Plaza rather then a traditional skatepark at the top of a hill in a park.

Regardless though it's impossible to please everyone when it comes to public works. If the skatepark was built somewhere else, people would be upset about the other location too. If they do build this in mount prospect, I'll go occasionally and probably enjoy it, just not as much as I would enjoy a potential alternative.

Maurice46

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Conflicted on this. While I do think those people in the articles are just NIMBYs, honestly I would prefer to keep Prospect as green as possible and use a shittier/already less green public space for a park (there are many around the city).  The strength of Prospect is that it's big and green and dense. I would say the same thing if they were proposing 8 new basketball courts or whatever. Just keep the trees.

And like @Mandatory Reload said... just do Brower first. That place has a huge community of skaters around it that need it so bad.
[close]

Agree with all of this. In a city already suffering from urban heat island effect, we shouldn’t be taking out green space (and should be adding green space in underserved communities). The city has been spending so much money on skateparks, sometimes very close together, when what we really need is more plaza space. If they want to build something in this area, it would make a lot more sense to build a little plaza for both skating and the public at Grand Army Plaza. There’s tons of unused space there and I think the DOT is planning a redesign anyways.

Also adding my support for Brower first. Was my local for a bit and while it has its charm, it is in desperate need of a revamp.
[close]

Yeah I agree about Brower Park.  Bedstuy/Crown Heights could use a proper skatepark and the space is already there.  Last summer I skated there and met the kid who pours concrete on the ground and skreets it to make it more skateable. 

There’s no reason to remove what little green space we already have at Prospect Park.
[close]
am i losing my fucking mind? pospect park is fucking 526 arces with so much green space, taking a portion on the north side of the park thats already busy is a loss to who?
[close]

I guarantee you everyone saying this has not been to mount prospect. There is nothing there. It is an empty field at the top of some stairs. I have explored every inch of prospect Park on my bike. It's funny nobody has a problem putting in a dog park and concert area by the zoo in there, where there is actually stuff resembling wooded trails, but paving over an already flat field is a no go.
[close]

I get that mount prospect is a nothing space, but I still think we need to preserve greenery/permeable surfacing where we can.

I also think that the type of project they are proposing is not what skateboarding needs in New York City. Just my opinion, but I think we could benefit more from a street-accessible plaza to skate at Grand Army Plaza rather then a traditional skatepark at the top of a hill in a park.

Regardless though it's impossible to please everyone when it comes to public works. If the skatepark was built somewhere else, people would be upset about the other location too. If they do build this in mount prospect, I'll go occasionally and probably enjoy it, just not as much as I would enjoy a potential alternative.

The idea of mixed-use spaces is commonly understood, likely by many in this discussion. However, in New York City parks, spaces are usually designated for specific purposes, not mixed use. The focus here is on the actual practices in constructing park infrastructure, not on theoretical possibilities. The current proposal is reasonable. It doesn't significantly reduce green spaces or cause other major issues that some have suggested. The key point remains: the proposed changes have a minimal effect on the existing park area, making the opposition to it somewhat puzzling.

mj23

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if we're going to do construction on a massive patch of grass we should be planting trees to reduce the urban heat island effect, provide cleaner air, add shade, and recover rainwater into the ground. we should not be adding concrete to make it worse.

headtowall

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if we're going to do construction on a massive patch of grass we should be planting trees to reduce the urban heat island effect, provide cleaner air, add shade, and recover rainwater into the ground. we should not be adding concrete to make it worse.
there is over 500 acres of greenspace next door, i think it will be aight

MareVitals

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I get that mount prospect is a nothing space, but I still think we need to preserve greenery/permeable surfacing where we can.

I also think that the type of project they are proposing is not what skateboarding needs in New York City. Just my opinion, but I think we could benefit more from a street-accessible plaza to skate at Grand Army Plaza rather then a traditional skatepark at the top of a hill in a park.

Regardless though it's impossible to please everyone when it comes to public works. If the skatepark was built somewhere else, people would be upset about the other location too. If they do build this in mount prospect, I'll go occasionally and probably enjoy it, just not as much as I would enjoy a potential alternative.

I totally get the desire to preserve green space but in this instance, I think it's worth it. The area is a skateboarding wasteland and I frequently see kids skating the Abraham Lincoln statue out of desperation. This would push kids out of the park to a nice tucked-away area where they won't bother anyone. I don't really like skateparks either, my favorite place to skate is under the k but it is literally a toxic dump. It would be nice if kids didn't have to endure that and I have no doubt Mount Prospect will see more use with a skatepark.


Mount Prospect is really being used as a dog park as it stands. They currently plan to renovate the vale section of actual Prospect Park to make...essentially another dog park. The only reason this is getting any kind of pushback is NIMBYism. A dog park increases property values. A skatepark does not.

j....soy.....

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why not sprinkle spots around the city? 

Because it's a pain in the ass and will never happen.

Just take the massive park, it'll be enjoyed by everyone.  Never say no to the big park, you just will never see that much money or real estate ever......

Ignatius J Reilly

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I get that mount prospect is a nothing space, but I still think we need to preserve greenery/permeable surfacing where we can.

I also think that the type of project they are proposing is not what skateboarding needs in New York City. Just my opinion, but I think we could benefit more from a street-accessible plaza to skate at Grand Army Plaza rather then a traditional skatepark at the top of a hill in a park.

Regardless though it's impossible to please everyone when it comes to public works. If the skatepark was built somewhere else, people would be upset about the other location too. If they do build this in mount prospect, I'll go occasionally and probably enjoy it, just not as much as I would enjoy a potential alternative.
[close]

I totally get the desire to preserve green space but in this instance, I think it's worth it. The area is a skateboarding wasteland and I frequently see kids skating the Abraham Lincoln statue out of desperation. This would push kids out of the park to a nice tucked-away area where they won't bother anyone. I don't really like skateparks either, my favorite place to skate is under the k but it is literally a toxic dump. It would be nice if kids didn't have to endure that and I have no doubt Mount Prospect will see more use with a skatepark.


Mount Prospect is really being used as a dog park as it stands. They currently plan to renovate the vale section of actual Prospect Park to make...essentially another dog park. The only reason this is getting any kind of pushback is NIMBYism. A dog park increases property values. A skatepark does not.
i don't think those kids would make their way from the total opposite side of the park to skate a skatepark instead of the statue spot + ledges it's a weird and unfriendly commute from opposite sides of the park

what brooklyn really needs is a proper skatepark anywhere between bay ridge and canarsie south of prospect park/the cemetery

MareVitals

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i don't think those kids would make their way from the total opposite side of the park to skate a skatepark instead of the statue spot + ledges it's a weird and unfriendly commute from opposite sides of the park

what brooklyn really needs is a proper skatepark anywhere between bay ridge and canarsie south of prospect park/the cemetery
You say that but do you know how far you have to walk into the park to skate that shitty statue? Mount prospect is one stop on the train from the station closest to the statue. I don't think it would grab everybody but it would definitely help.

I agree though, it's sad there's a black hole with nothing between the park and owls head. That area needs it more but I think you just need to take what you can get.

addie pray

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you can change the subject on these?
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2024, 07:54:56 PM »
more concrete? less concrete? who can say what the ideal NYC of the future is like

Sicebox

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There's so many other parks in need of a good fixing and maybe some expanding. D and D (Thomas Greene), Brower, it would be nice to see the city put money into that. The way I see it though, the city planners have no incentive to pick a spot to pave that is going to negatively impact the area. Adding a skatepark isn't going to add to nearby property values. So they must know that it's an underutilized space and want to fix that.

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To everyone saying fix Brower instead - they are. Source:

https://www.archpaper.com/2024/01/tony-hawk-new-skateparks-brooklyn-bronx/

Prospect needs a park too. Hope it works out.

mj23

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if we're going to do construction on a massive patch of grass we should be planting trees to reduce the urban heat island effect, provide cleaner air, add shade, and recover rainwater into the ground. we should not be adding concrete to make it worse.
[close]
there is over 500 acres of greenspace next door, i think it will be aight
It’s thinking like yours that got us into this climate change mess in the first place

headtowall

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if we're going to do construction on a massive patch of grass we should be planting trees to reduce the urban heat island effect, provide cleaner air, add shade, and recover rainwater into the ground. we should not be adding concrete to make it worse.
[close]
there is over 500 acres of greenspace next door, i think it will be aight
[close]
It’s thinking like yours that got us into this climate change mess in the first place
lol ok

addie pray

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nyc skaters are allergic to skating street and idk why

Pete

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We need more indoor 90s esq-wooden parks but with the current too many parks per neighborhood attitude.



Free max b
FREE MAX B

Colin Robinson

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Concrete of the Stone Age is my combination Pavement and Queens of the Stone Age cover band.

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All these new parks are becoming that hollow concrete chicken wire spohn ranch type shit. That shit isn’t good for anybody at all except the city bc it’s so cheap to hire idiots that don’t know what’s going on.
They need to put the 5thpocket dudes that know what they’re doing to avoid that bullshit, and actually build some cool stuff.

And yeah there are so many spaces in Brooklyn alone not being used. Just sitting all derelique…no need to get rid of what little grassland is left. But as always the fuck do I know


Free max b

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pugmaster

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uhhh... lemme get a bacon-egg-n-cheese-and skatepark the Ocky way
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OGmike

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a 40k square foot skatepark that wont have a straight regular ledge

Tear Up a Trick

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Brooklyn locals plan on jeering the birdman at his show in NYC over the skatepark plan in Mt Prospect Park:

https://nypost.com/2024/04/04/us-news/brooklyn-locals-plan-to-jeer-tony-hawk-over-skate-park-plans/

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Oh they got NIMBYs in Brooklyn too

they wrote the gd nimby handbook

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said Hayley Gorenberg, a co-chair of Friends of Mount Prospect Park, a group formed less than a month ago

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Being from the other side of the country in semi-rural PNW, I see both sides of the argument and I don't have much input on the best use of the space BUT

If I lived in NYC I don't think a new giant skatepark would be on my Christmas list. I may be romanticizing skating in that city but I'm sure it's more interesting and fun to skate than the city closest to me (not talking about Seattle or PDX)
Wow sorry, didn't realise I was dealing with a sick cunt here

50mm

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Being from the other side of the country in semi-rural PNW, I see both sides of the argument and I don't have much input on the best use of the space BUT

If I lived in NYC I don't think a new giant skatepark would be on my Christmas list. I may be romanticizing skating in that city but I'm sure it's more interesting and fun to skate than the city closest to me (not talking about Seattle or PDX)
Yeah I get it. I work in land conservation in a rural area but the little cities we have have plenty of space for a skatepark. Never been to the east coast but I'd imagine a skate park wouldn't be as big of a joy to have in a big city.