How to improve the health situation in pro skateboarding?

[Shtonk]

I don't want to clog up the James Hardy thread with this any further, but it seems he made it his mission over the last few years to speak out about health and brain damage and it was what ultimately killed him way before his time, so I don't want to self censor on this.

I can't accept that this is how it has to be. I've worked in and around pro boardriding for a decade and James is not the first instance I've witnessed of pros doing irreparable damage to themselves when it could have been prevented had they had proper health insurance and a better, more developed idea of self-care and longevity.

There is an entire argument around the degree of money in any given industry and how that influences expectations on healthcare for athletes (basically: boards don't make money so board sponsors can't watch out for their riders' health). I think that perspecitve is insane. It treats health care as a bonus, not as the most important. James talks about having bought a house with his pro salary in his Heckride interview. I have to wonder: would he not rather have been cut off from some of that salary and maybe not been able to afford the house but in return have had compulsory health care available to him that he might have used that one decisive time to go to hospital and get checked instead of shaking off a concussion and hitting the next rail? Would my friend, an ex-snowboard pro, have gone to get his knee checked that day when he tweaked it and been diagnosed and prevented from hitting a cliff the next day and turn what was a minor tear into an entirely busted knee that keeps him from walking fluidly, let alone ride, to this day? And so on... (Edit: Someone mentioned Pedro Delfino in the other thread - fitting example - is he getting the checkups he should, will he be another thread in the RIP section in a couple years and everybody will act like this comes as such a shock?)
 
I can only offer up my perspective and surely, hopefully, there are others out there. I think brands deserve some heat over this topic, I think TMs need to be called out for not calling ambulances when they should, etc. I know how much everyone loves to be friends in this industry but without a bit of uncomfortable truth, the mindset will never change. And even so, relying on an industry to better itself is a pipe dream, in my opinion. An idea that does seem the most intuitive to me is a sort of pro skater's health union. Everybody who turns pro would be required to join this union - the members' tax/fee would depend on your overall earnings and additionally every brand would be required to pay a percentage (maybe 35%) of what they're paying their rider into the union on top (that way wealthy shoe brands contribute more than hardgoods). The money goes to providing full-scale health care with monitoring checks to any and all pro rider out there. I can hear the neoliberal crowd going apeshit already but this is the only way I can see that would create some level of fairness between those who make it big and those who get broke off midway. And ultimately it's the only way that feels reasonable and possible to prevent another unnecessary untimely passing like James's.

[excitableboy]

I agree risk awareness and health care can be improved upon. I'm not sure you are addressing a skate industry problem so much as a US health care problem, though.

[CossRooper]

Good idea to start a separate thread.

I have no idea.

For pro sports that have started to take this seriously, what are they doing differently? How much time after a serious head hit should you be off a board?

What is the recommendation when you get a concussion? In other words, Assuming you do see a doctor after a head hit, what are their recommendations?

[Braydon SanFransiski]

Ok, I will respectfully bite, and as I said in the other thread that comparing the skateboarding industry to any other does not properly compute.
Ok, so first off, I have not personally seen a TM or person in power ignore injury or handle it differently due to finances.
A few other things to consider. I believe James' house was in Alabama, and he skated for Fallen during its heyday, and I am sure had a few other good paying sponsors at the time. Although there was a worldwide recession, 2002-2012 was very very good for skaters that had all their bases covered. I.E. board, shoes, clothing sponsors. His time and choice of house are important ingredients to his situation, as every skaters situation is case by case.
Now skaters LOVE skating, right? If you do it, chances are it is your life. There aren't many "casual" skaters the same way your uncle might go see baseball games and buy memorabilia, yet doesnt regularly play baseball and maybe hasnt swung a bat in 3 decades. Why I am explaining this is because a disproportionate amount of skaters aim to achieve a sort of status, where as your uncle is not doing everything he can to join the team or see what he can get for free. This matters because this is how the market gets flooded.
"Oh they wont put me on so Ill start my own shit"
Now gatekeeping is a whole different conversation we will save for another time, but hopefully my point is clear. The percentage of skaters who would like to be sponsored or pro is much higher than the percentage of people who try to achieve status in other sport/artistic industries.
Now why does this matter? It dilutes the market.
Without revealing too much and being respectful, a very well known and appreciated skater told me they sell about 150 boards a month. Lets crunch some numbers. Ill use loose numbers for the sake of convo.
The shop buys them for about 45 dollars. And they cost 25 dollars to make. That leaves 3,000 for the company, yeah? Now the company has a building and employees and keeps the lights on, and pays for the graphic, about 200-500 dollars for freelance, or a salary artists wage. And it seems like the industry standard for companies with no minimums is 5 dollars a board. So thats 750 bucks. And its 1099. So this is before taxes. Now your suggestion of 35% of wages toward health or union leaves us at 487.50, not a liveable wage.
While it is a shame, the money just doesnt exist. The only way pros are taken care of is if we had much less people with names on their board. People forget while this is a physical activity and people confuse it with "sport", it is artistic in nature. People are creating footage and you either like it or dont. Buying a product with someone's name who you support goes a very long way. Because if I employ you, and pay 25 dollars an hour for 40 hours, I can quantify that. I owe you 1,000 dollars. But if you skate your ass off, kill it, and I give you 5 bucks a board, and we sell 100 boards, I can only justify giving you 500 dollars. I can't give you money that doesnt exist.

TLDR: If you like someones output and want to support, try your best to buy a product with their name on it.

Sorry for the rant, Im sure I have more points but you know, no need to make everyone read a novel. Its too nice outside for that

[Big Skatefase]

I agree skateboarders should unionize. The problem is that there is no governing body over skateboarding outside of the contest sphere. It's not like the NBA or NFL where there is a Players Association that can collectively bargain on behalf of the players.

What happens if a company simply does not want to comply? There is no one that can supersede the wishes of the company.

Seeing how bad USA Skateboarding mismanaged finances, I'm not even sure skateboarding could even maintain something like this.

[BurgerCop]

It seems like companies view sponsored skaters as mostly disposable unless your name has enough star power that you hit that coveted legacy status.

The only thing I can think is that for a major shift to happen sponsored skaters would have to rise up and start making demands, we the consumers could start making demands, or ideally both. First thing would be this whole "skaters are contractors" thing should be a thing of the past. In a better world sponsorship would make you an actual staff member and you'd get insurance, 401k, medical leave etc.

I've always been curious to know which companies in skateboarding take better or worse care of their skaters. It'd be really cool if this info could be blasted far and wide and skaters started actively supporting the brands that do right by their team.
If the company I work for can afford to give me insurance, 401k etc then 90% of the national skate companies can afford it too. If you can't afford to take care of your staff (the people destroying their bodies to promote your brand) then you don't get to be a company anymore.
Also I'd happily pay an extra buck or two for a deck if I knew the person with their name printed on it was being taken care of and had access to quality medical care when they break themselves off entertaining us.

Hey, a fella can dream.

[Braydon SanFransiski]

It seems like companies view sponsored skaters as mostly disposable unless your name has enough star power that you hit that coveted legacy status.

The only thing I can think is that for a major shift to happen sponsored skaters would have to rise up and start making demands, we the consumers could start making demands, or ideally both. First thing would be this whole "skaters are contractors" thing should be a thing of the past. In a better world sponsorship would make you an actual staff member and you'd get insurance, 401k, medical leave etc.

I've always been curious to know which companies in skateboarding take better or worse care of their skaters. It'd be really cool if this info could be blasted far and wide and skaters started actively supporting the brands that do right by their team.
If the company I work for can afford to give me insurance, 401k etc then 90% of the national skate companies can afford it too. If you can't afford to take care of your staff (the people destroying their bodies to promote your brand) then you don't get to be a company anymore.
Also I'd happily pay an extra buck or two for a deck if I knew the person with their name printed on it was being taken care of and had access to quality medical care when they break themselves off entertaining us.

Hey, a fella can dream.

There is definitely a misconception with how much money these companies have, aside from the Nikes, Adidas', NBs. The thing is, I am sure your company makes more money than all the skateboard companies. Deluxe is the gold standard I would say in our world. And more people probably work at your local CVS, to give an example of staff. These companies are huge to us because they are our world, but theyre not operating at the same level as even your local ralphs. And Its tricky, because skaters accept the terms regardless because they get to spend time doing what they love. Theres this idea that companies are abusing skaters and saving all the money, which I find confusing. There is no money, honestly. Any money you see is shoe and clothing money.
What sucks is if companies had to meet a quota of sorts, we lose the killing floors, the scumco's, the hopps of the world, right? Theres no clear answer
If you are affiliated with a shoe company then this argument could maybe exist in a different light, but then again that is how the teams become big, and the reason I bring this up is because most pros just have a board sponsor as far as income. For skating to exist in this light, Im guessing but maybe 85% of people with names on their board would have to throw in the towel. Im not explaining my views or opinion, these would just be the facts, and that could kill the free and artistic side of skateboarding we appreciate through smaller companies.

Theres no clear answer or solution

[Sick_McCrank_]

Maybe calling people who wear a helmet gay or kooks for wearing a helmet is not right?
Making people wear helmets would probably be the first thing a union would do.

Just randomly got this from the YouTube algorithm 
http://youtu.be/f6Kvc7BRuiw?si=M8PpNTGqwbN4hWvO

[sometimeperhaps]

Good idea to start a separate thread.

I have no idea.

For pro sports that have started to take this seriously, what are they doing differently? How much time after a serious head hit should you be off a board?

What is the recommendation when you get a concussion? In other words, Assuming you do see a doctor after a head hit, what are their recommendations?

In hockey they have a “concussion spotter” for all games. If an incident occurs where they feel a head injury occurred the have the authority to take the player off the ice and send them to the “quiet room” where they have to stay - and I’d assume get analyzed by the team doctor - for ten minutes. From there it’s anyone’s guess, but it seems as though they take it more serious than past years.


In hockey at least the players are million dollar “assets” as bad as that sounds. So I’d think these days they tend to default to sitting and evaluating players if there’s concerns.

With skateboarding I doubt anything would take hold. Who would be the voice of reason or in charge. I think ultimately it comes down to the individual. Hopefully more skaters become educated on the risks and act accordingly.

[Lenny the Fatface]

We have to be real with how our culture stigmatized safety gear for so long. We also have to chill with romanticizing slams.

[k-nutz]

I agree risk awareness and health care can be improved upon. I'm not sure you are addressing a skate industry problem so much as a US health care problem, though.

Why should the skate companies be responsible for the health care coverage?   Why is this even associated with a job?  What if your job sucks or you're in-between, or you don't even have one?

I can see maybe a job buffing up your coverage as a benefit/perk, but the government mandating coverage from your employer because you work over 31 hours a week just let's the insurance companies rip us all off.

Most pro skaters are young, feel invincible, and can't imagine getting old anytime soon. 

Last week's Dern Brothers YouTube video showed the youngest one hitting his head twice in two days,the same way, trying to land a bs 360 down the atl 5 block.   He talked about it being a hard fought battle that he was able to pull off, but damn bro.  I coach little league soccer and they are serious about concussion protocol.   Two concussions too close to each other can be deadly.

[pistachio]

It’s pretty much horseshit that America mostly structures it so that your job and healthcare are tied together, but it’s the harsh and grossly capitalistic truth of this place.

While I do agree that skate companies should offer better benefits packages overall, especially given the injury-prone nature of the profession and the fact that it often begins employing professionals at young, ignorant ages, most if not all skaters are 1099 employees, so regardless of staff numbers in a company, they’re on their own with healthcare and their taxes. Is it the responsibility of the company that’s paying them to educate their contractual employees on the US’s healthcare system? Maybe not—in all of my years working, I certainly have never had a job that informs me on what the best practice for caring for my health is or really provided any info outside of the company’s benefits package. I believe that in a 1099 situation, it’s illegal for the company paying you to provide tax advice, and I wouldn’t be shocked if there’s some dumbass rule about healthcare tucked in there too.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, skateboarding is certainly not the only career where the employees are forgoing proper healthcare because they can’t afford it, and to assume that the company writing checks should be responsible for the health of their employees is kind of ludicrous in terms of how the healthcare system actually works. Someone else said it, but the real culprit is our bullshit-ass country that always wants to monopolize anything that can make a dollar at the expense of absurd things like the health and overall happiness off the exact citizens who live there.

[JohnDi]

Health care aside most of these companies are not even paying most of the team the pro/am title gets skewed to the point these riders are putting out these parts year after year for free under the motto “skating doesn’t owe you anything”

I think with the health care there needs to be a change in the stigma of skaters being athletes that need to work out and go to the gym first off.

Reading the comments on that Jenkem article with the skate trainer girl Jessika people are bashing saying “this isn’t skateboarding” or “jock” which is maddening for the fact that if we didn’t think this way as skateboarders some of us who have torn knee ligaments ruptured tendons etc…done terrible damage to their body that in the future whether it’s sadly in the case of Hardy having CTE or a knee injury that later in life makes everyday things more difficult it’s not only a fellow skater dying but also not being able to work or do things properly after “skate career” is over if we would have had just worked out previous to injury and made the body more resilient or even after injury done PT properly a lot of skateboarders would be better off.

HUGE rant but skateboarders and the skateboarding industry/culture is so fucking toxic a lot of the time and it’s sad.

[notmikerusczyk]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you could have the best health insurance in the world and that still wouldn't matter if you're hitting your head frequently

[TheLurper]

I don't think any amount of healthcare is going to get CTE to go away. Regularly hitting your head is not something humans were supposed to do nor is it something that we can recover from. However, there are other things that we can recover from that are often neglected in skateboarding.

If I was to change skateboarding I would...

1. ...require all filmers, TMs, and photographers to take a few First Aid classes. These are the dudes on the scene when shit goes down, they should be able to do more than ask the injured person, "Bro, are you alright? Should we go to the hospital?" They should say, "Dude, we need to do X, Y, and Z and get you to a doctor."

2. ...request that all skaters take their health seriously. But, how do you convince kids trying to make it in activity that glorifies risk and a "fuck it" attitude to prioritize their health over getting up and jumping down the stairs one more time? I have no idea. How do you prevent them from self medicating w/alcohol and weed after an injury? I have no idea. I went to the bar after breaking my ankle.

3. ...create a union built off the framework of SAG or the Writer's Guild. If actors/actresses and writers can have a union, guild, or association, so can we. We cannot models things off the NFL or NBA or NHL, but we can certainly look to other SAG, WG, or UAW or a union in Sweden to develop the framework for ours.

4. ...ban anyone from mentioning this ever again:

Seeing how bad USA Skateboarding mismanaged finances, I'm not even sure skateboarding could even maintain something like this.

Nearly everyone at USA Skateboarding was a fucking kook. They were primarily kooks out for themselves and they got burned while trying to burn others. Their failure is their own and indicative of their libertarian world view. They did not and do not represent skateboarding or its potential to organize. Fuck them and fuck their PTO days or whatever bullshit they were crying about.

5. ...require any company that says, "We cannot afford to pay the riders X," to back this claim up with data. I need to see balance sheets before I will blindly accept, "We aren't rich enough to pay X." It is like when a valet company owner who owns multiple houses says, "We cannot afford to pay you wages, you should be happy that you get tips. If I had to pay you the legal wages you are entitled to we'd go out of business." Fucking prove it. Show me the balance sheet instead of asking me to believe you.

[Sick_McCrank_]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you could have the best health insurance in the world and that still wouldn't matter if you're hitting your head frequently

This!

[Giftedly Hater’d]

Glad to see this thread.

I agree that company health insurance would be a good start and socialized health care would be an order of magnitude better. Maybe you need the former (and the sharp increase in deck and hard goods prices needed to facilitate it) to help wake people up to the benefits and economic efficiencies of the latter.

To the poster who said we need to stop romanticizing big slams: I’d also agree with that. It’s a tricky one though. How do you present the consequences for inherently dangerous behavior in a way that people will choose to pay attention to? Eliminating slam footage from videos would be opaque and counterproductive? Do you still include a “slam section” but pair it with sad music instead of rowdy punk/hc? Was The Berries on the right track (broadly speaking) with whatever there recovery/PT mini docs? Aka come up with some other compelling (and less corny) way to tell the story of that side of the game?

The helmet debate: acknowledging they aren’t cool is pure realism, but “cool” isn’t something carved in stone. It’s an uphill battle, but not one that’s in winnable. And to circle back to the insurance issue, if companies started to pony up for coverage, would they themselves encourage/require riders to use some PROphylactic TEChnology?

And finally: the market. How much blame do we (consumers of skateboard media) deserve for wanting to see people wanting to go big?  And has there already been somewhat of a corrective? 15-20 years ago, it was all 20-stair rail jockeys and mega ramp jocks? Now you’ve got curb dogs, suciu’s, frogs, and a dozen other lower impact sub-genres of skateboarding grabbing a huge share of consumer attention. Is that part of some natural cycle? Or are people somewhat less interested in taking big risks themselves and are looking for inspiration/validation in those safer (in relative terms) forms of skating? Street skating was born because people couldn’t bare the costs (financial) of vert ramps. Tenderizing your brain is also a cost, and maybe the shift (at least to more diversity in style) is a reaction to it. “Don’t jump down anything you can’t jump up.”

I’ve made the argument with friends for years that the end of the NFL will be a bottom-up drought of parents not willing to enroll their kids in feeder leagues peewee/middle school/high school football and the public’s attention will shift towards other things (clearly this has happened to a degree with soccer in the US). Of course, another (likely) outcome is the NFL will start importing players from desperate and economically depressed third world countries so we can still watch people get CTE, protect American children, AND tell ourselves we’re lifting people out of poverty.  Maybe THAT’S what Ryan Lay was doing in Palestine… conscripting some poor bastard to take his place at the bottom of a three block? (Please don’t take that last sentence seriously)

One more (unpopular and less serious) rant: the first gen Baker dudes were critiqued for being in recovery while they subbed out the company’s party animal marketing/image to younger riders.  By that same logic, does an oft-concussed company owner like Ed Templeton (and don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge fan) deserve flack for making money off his riders taking the hits? Does he deserve a pass because he did it himself (compared to an owner who never took the slams) OR does he deserve a pass because his brain is mush and he doesn’t know what he’s doing? 

[BurgerCop]

And finally: the market. How much blame do we (consumers of skateboard media) deserve for wanting to see people wanting to go big?  And has there already been somewhat of a corrective? 15-20 years ago, it was all 20-stair rail jockeys and mega ramp jocks? Now you’ve got curb dogs, suciu’s, frogs, and a dozen other lower impact sub-genres of skateboarding grabbing a huge share of consumer attention. Is that part of some natural cycle? Or are people somewhat less interested in taking big risks themselves and are looking for inspiration/validation in those safer (in relative terms) forms of skating? Street skating was born because people couldn’t bare the costs (financial) of vert ramps. Tenderizing your brain is also a cost, and maybe the shift (at least to more diversity in style) is a reaction to it. “Don’t jump down anything you can’t jump up.”

I've always thought a part of this could be that people have basically maxed out about as big as you can go without guaranteed bone breaking. Rad Rat did a video where he really dived into the physics of it all.
Either way, now it's like unless you're planning to huck off a 30 stair then someone has already done something as big or bigger than anything you're going to try, so the risk to glory ratio isn't as tempting anymore.

Also the gap between the elite pros and, not even just the average skater, the gap between the elite pros and the normal pros is so, so wide that people are going back to curbs and "creative" skating.
Like, if this guy over here is doing nollie full cab to bluntslide bigspin out on handrails then what's my incentive to break myself off trying for a measly back smith. Fuck all that, I'm going to the curbs.

[artskool]

There are certainly major structural and economic issues, especially in the USA at play, but it's the culture that we have the ability to correct course on.

Turn half of the hi-five, and half of the horrible wreck clips that populate most videos into friends making sure their homies are okay clips could go a long way.

I know more people in the snowboard world, but the percentage of people in that game that appear to me to have various levels of cognitive damage is shockingly high. CTE is 100% linked to self destructive behavior from drugs, alcoholism and violence that plagues every high impact sport.

[9inchdeck]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you could have the best health insurance in the world and that still wouldn't matter if you're hitting your head frequently

Exactly. Health insurance may help to prolong a skater’s career so that they can know when they need to stay of the board and for how long in the case of a torn ligament or something, but even then it’s up to the individual to heed the doctor’s advice and actually take it easy.

Unfortunately the only way to really combat head trauma is to promote the use of safety gear. My friend and I were just talking about how we used to bash on people for wearing helmets but as we’re nearing the age of 30, we totally get why people should want to wear helmets. I believe it’s really due to that false sense of invincibility you have in your youth. I remember being able to slam hard, go out and drink all night, then skating the next day. When you’re young, you’re generally so resilient that while you know life threatening things can happen, everyone has the facade that it’s not gonna happen to them. I know it’s only due to liability but it’s a good thing that the Olympics requires the skaters who are under 18 to wear helmets.

Have helmets and pads always been generally accepted in vert and transition skating? Was there ever a period where people were trying to push against it?

[totallyradical]

As consumers we're partly to blame, rewarding the one-upmanship that has led to pro skaters being padless urban stuntmen vying for SOTY.

At the same time I feel like this is asking how do you improve the health situation of Alaskan crab fishermen?  There is an inherit level of danger that can't be mitigated and it's up to the individual to decide if the risk is worth it.

Helmets also provide a false sense of security.  NFL players wear them and still end up with CTE.  There's some thinking that it would actually be safer for them to play without helmets because then they would stop using their heads to absorb so much impact.

[Theme For A Jackal]

As consumers we're partly to blame, rewarding the one-upmanship that has led to pro skaters being padless urban stuntmen vying for SOTY.

At the same time I feel like this is asking how do you improve the health situation of Alaskan crab fishermen?  There is an inherit level of danger that can't be mitigated and it's up to the individual to decide if the risk is worth it.

Helmets also provide a false sense of security.  NFL players wear them and still end up with CTE.  There's some thinking that it would actually be safer for them to play without helmets because then they would stop using their heads to absorb so much impact.

I mean the alternative here is not buying the products so the companies go out of business and no one can be pro. I don't think you can place the blame on the consumer here.

[rawbertson.]

i think Vert Ramps were almost always at skate parks / places where they can enforce pads and also they sorta rely harder on the contest circuit to get paid. Where Street Skateboarders carved their own career with handycams and shit and did not need to comply to any sort of rules to continue their careers.

 Street Skating will always happen without pads because i think that is one part of it that people really are attracted to about skating is that there is no one who will ever be able to tell you you cant skate without a helmet on ,or do this or do that, its entirely up to you what you want to do and how you want to do it. Even some cities have banned skateboarding on public streets in the USA but you cant tell me there is no street skating going on there.

[rawbertson.]

Make a huge push for everyone to get off of social media would do a lot not only for pros, but all skateboarders in general tbh
i am fairly convinced there is no way it can be good for anyones mental health long term but that is just from my experience - cant speak for everyone

[mamba]

Move to a state with good healthcare for the poor.

[totallyradical]

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As consumers we're partly to blame, rewarding the one-upmanship that has led to pro skaters being padless urban stuntmen vying for SOTY.

At the same time I feel like this is asking how do you improve the health situation of Alaskan crab fishermen?  There is an inherit level of danger that can't be mitigated and it's up to the individual to decide if the risk is worth it.

Helmets also provide a false sense of security.  NFL players wear them and still end up with CTE.  There's some thinking that it would actually be safer for them to play without helmets because then they would stop using their heads to absorb so much impact.

[close]

I mean the alternative here is not buying the products so the companies go out of business and no one can be pro. I don't think you can place the blame on the consumer here.

You kind of proved my point.  If consumers take their money elsewhere that type of skateboarding will fade out, like freestyle.  There would still be pros but they would be skating in a different way.

[IUTSM]

Expand Quote

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As consumers we're partly to blame, rewarding the one-upmanship that has led to pro skaters being padless urban stuntmen vying for SOTY.

At the same time I feel like this is asking how do you improve the health situation of Alaskan crab fishermen?  There is an inherit level of danger that can't be mitigated and it's up to the individual to decide if the risk is worth it.

Helmets also provide a false sense of security.  NFL players wear them and still end up with CTE.  There's some thinking that it would actually be safer for them to play without helmets because then they would stop using their heads to absorb so much impact.

[close]

I mean the alternative here is not buying the products so the companies go out of business and no one can be pro. I don't think you can place the blame on the consumer here.

[close]

You kind of proved my point.  If consumers take their money elsewhere that type of skateboarding will fade out, like freestyle.  There would still be pros but they would be skating in a different way.

This whole thread is rich af.

Sale gear thread is the most popular thread here. Everyone wants a discount on the gear. Everyone wants to watch skate tv shit on YouTube or elsewhere. according to this thread, small brands need to be supporting “pro” skaters as much as the big shoe companies and mall brands.

If the big companies with interests outside skateboarding had to spend more than they do on their marquee team, they’d be out w the quickness. And that would not be a bad thing

[Dad Board]

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[close]

Fuck all that, I'm going to the curbs.

The way and the truth

[9inchdeck]

i think Vert Ramps were almost always at skate parks / places where they can enforce pads and also they sorta rely harder on the contest circuit to get paid.

Great point

[Brad Wesley]

The US would have to implement Medicare for All (or at the very least a public option) and the retail price of a deck would need to reflect decades of inflation, which would put it around $120 today.