skate industry downsizing... podium blackbox etc..

[Cthulhu!]

I think its pretty obvious that he doesn't have any friends.

[no one you know]

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I'm glad it's falling apart. The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.

[close]

I am curious who are these "hipsters that don't actually skate" you are always complaining about? I really can't think of any pros that don't skate and therefore would be cut because of the industry downsizing.

Yeah, maybe a few "pros" will be cut, but for the most part the real people being hurt are the guys working in the warehouse, doing sales, working at the shops etc. and more often than not these are the guys that "actually skate". I would be great if only the BS phony skate companies that go out of business, but so far it seems like a lot of good companies (listen for example) will also be destroyed in this mess. making this "bursting bubble" not as cool as a lot of people think.
 

[close]

Hipsters are the dead weight leeching off the industry thanks to the "bro system". They're just random "friends of friends" of pros, flow kids and their buddies, etc. They take tons of free product, get jobs that companies only create for them to have because they are so "down," etc. When you've got all of this extra weight, it drives the price of your goods up. That's why there is such a disparity between the price of a blank board and a graphic board, even when they are produced in the same place.

And yeah, some little guys are going to go under. So what? Being cool does not entitle you to an easy living doing participating in a recreational activity. A large part of the problems we are having today are due to this false sense of entitlement a lot of skateboarders suddenly have. If these guys care about it so much, they can do it while going to school and having a job like the rest of us. I don't have any sympathy for them.

[close]

i don't know if this is the case outside of skateparks or skateshops, but fuckin a, man, skating and the "bro system" is what it's all about. Chilling with good people while share the good wealth. Kind of like how your gramps bought you a benz, except you simply present yourself as a spoiled prick.


Also, what kind of crew do you have? Any with which to participate in this recreational activity?

Actually dude, I've had some awkward moments with the whole "bro system".

Sometimes guys make assumptions about other skaters assuming everyone's on the same page or on the same mentality. I usually get along real well with the "bros" who don't take being a "bro" so seriously. Maybe I'm anit-bro, it seems some dudes cling-on to the whole "bro system" as if thats all they got, and I think with this spectacular moment in history that we're all living in, theres a little more going on than your status/image in the skate world, I mean who fucking cares, look at who just got elected President? Just skate and be nice and respect the OG's and I think thats it.

[muckles]

Active cut so many employees.  They cut the warehouse dudes (that actually skated), mailorder dudes (that actually skated), and all the inventory managers.  Plus each employee got a five percent pay cut.  Now when you order from this disgusting company, the package you get wont be packed by skateboarders but by mexican temp agencies illegal women.  This is real talk! 

P.S. its not like this company had a good rep anyways, just thought i would share with you all.

That sucks for the real skaters that skate that worked at Active. I shop at Liberty Board Shop because all the workers actually skateboard and it's ran by real skateboarders not some corporate bullshit.  I see James Craig and Tom Krauser there all the time.  Every once in a while I see Daewon Song setting up a board there too.  The workers there are like family and they don't cut people like Wactive.  Go shop at Furnace too there a real skateboard shop ran by skaters too.

[carbonite]

Hipsters are the dead weight leeching off the industry thanks to the "bro system". They're just random "friends of friends" of pros, flow kids and their buddies, etc. They take tons of free product, get jobs that companies only create for them to have because they are so "down," etc. When you've got all of this extra weight, it drives the price of your goods up. That's why there is such a disparity between the price of a blank board and a graphic board, even when they are produced in the same place.

And yeah, some little guys are going to go under. So what? Being cool does not entitle you to an easy living doing participating in a recreational activity.

There's a "bro system" in pretty much every business or industry...also, skating isn't really a meritocracy--like, there's no "bar exam" to be pro/sponsored, etc...

[scumalot]

smaller companies back in the day could adjust and downsize for something like this and theyd suruvive. the problem now is that there are so many corporations involved that when they dont see the money coming in they just pull the plug. i think things will be bad in every industry and skateboarding just happens to be in the middle of it. mom and pop dont have the money to buy jr a new board every week and if they do itll be blank or shop to stretch their dollars. as unemployment goes up (it went up today again) there will be less disposable income and higher bills to pay, less consumer confidence and less purchasing.
watch for the auto industry to go down first if they dont get a bailout (they likely will in the form of a low interest loan from the gov't) and then the airline industry will suffer next. after that is anyones guess but well see a lot of companies go down, less jobs, more competition for those jobs and lots and lots of people without an income.
skating will survive obviously but id say we'll be looking at about half of the companies that will be able to hang on. most of the industry revolves around pro skaters and models obviously its the only thing they offer other than what shop boards offer. i think well see more kids come up making youtube videos that will push skating on the local scene and shops will sell more blanks, shop decks and the industry will not be able to give away pro boards. videos obviously will take a hit too. bad invest ment at this point when pros arent driving the industry like they have in the past.

[RevertEverything]

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Any good business man will tell you a sure fire way to conserve capital is to reduce your spending.
Employee's are always the first line to go. I agree that your idea sounds good but when we know you can have 1 person do the work that 2 or 3 usually do then it makes the decision that much easier.
Only problem is then a lot of stuff falls by the wayside.

[close]

the problem with this is that usually 1 guy doesn't want to do 3 peoples jobs.  they'll tolerate the workload for a little while but it only a matter of time before they feel they're being slaved and unappreciated and they eventually quit.

i worked at a dotcom back in the days and thats pretty much what happened to me.  they cut 2 people trying to save money which left me doing 3 peoples jobs for 1 persons pay.  i did it for a little while expecting to get some sort of raise but i got nothing.  they were paying the 2 people $100K combined.  if they gave me a $25K raise they would've still save $75K and i would've been happy to stay but they weren't trying to give me shit.  they expected me to work all 3 jobs on top of working on weekends since it was a huge workload.  it didn't help being on salary since i was making the same money even if i work 60+ hours a week.  unless you're desperate for work, you're going to quit, i quit. 

[close]

A lot of the guys in this situation aren't exactly doing $100,000 worth of work though. Warehouse jobs and stuff like that are super easy if you can do physical labor, and I'm guessing here there were people who were taking a lot of downtime. Also, the skate industry is unique in this aspect -- people will quit at a dotcom because no one actually wants to work at EvilFaceless Incorporated. On the other hand, for the average dropout wannabe pro skater, working in a warehouse in California beside your favorite pros for forty hours a week is like a dream job. It's not much of a living for any of us, but they see it as being around skateboarding while still having enough money to actually eat once in a while. 

I do feel bad for the migrant Mexican slaves Jamie Thomas "employed" and then kicked to the curb though. I don't think they get unemployment over there, and it's not like these people were making enough to actually be able to save anything.That is one good thing about Barack Obama being elected. This "free trade" bullshit is a huge scam, and when the rest of the world is under economic socialism, and wages there are artificially low, there is nothing "capitalist" about sending jobs over there. Unfair competition is just being placed on the American worker -- stifling wages and hurting consumer spending.

[close]

-First off, we all know you don't feel bad for anyone, you've proved you're a selfish prick time and time again.

...you obviously need some life experience, but I'll give you that you're an expert in 'idealism'!

Amen

[crackrazor]

I usually skip newtons posts, props for actually reading them.
Good luck with the business!
My shops already dead and I am about 100.000 in debt now... (euros)_{(somebody buy my old crap!)}
let you know the deal here in holland b4, sucks balls!


atleast skating is still good!

Man, I'm sorry to hear that. Good luck though.

[yall84]

i'm glad i saved all my checks from skate camp this summer. it's not much, but i definately look out for what i buy. sale shoes, utilizing skate goods till they don't work, scraps. i lost the drive to buy skate clothes a long time ago. i wish i had the money to ball out but my mind has been conditioned that less is more. however a good pair of skate shoes is always well worth it.

i honestly don't know how companies and shops and keep shit going awesome, just creating an atmosphere that invites skateboarding and its creativity... i guess the shops that play the cool guy card won't survive, bringing in new customers is key, and creating relationships with the ones you have. i mean really getting to know your customer over just being quiet behind the counter when they walk in. i've never run a shop though, only worked at them so i am sure it can be pretty stressful situation. we all know skateboarding will never die, but i guess maybe the skate ballers will just slow down. fuck, i don't know, i just like to skateboard and not worry about that type of thing but it would definately be a bummer if my local shop closed down.

[I SUCK!]

so what exactly went down at blackbox?  ive heard everything from the entire warehouse being canned and cheaper mexican labor brought in to Fallen calling it quits 

Over the past 6 months we've had to lay off about 10 people and 5 or more moved on to do other things.
...the rest is just rumors.

[skatemore,man]

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I'm glad it's falling apart. The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.

[close]

I am curious who are these "hipsters that don't actually skate" you are always complaining about? I really can't think of any pros that don't skate and therefore would be cut because of the industry downsizing.

Yeah, maybe a few "pros" will be cut, but for the most part the real people being hurt are the guys working in the warehouse, doing sales, working at the shops etc. and more often than not these are the guys that "actually skate". I would be great if only the BS phony skate companies that go out of business, but so far it seems like a lot of good companies (listen for example) will also be destroyed in this mess. making this "bursting bubble" not as cool as a lot of people think.
 

[close]

Hipsters are the dead weight leeching off the industry thanks to the "bro system". They're just random "friends of friends" of pros, flow kids and their buddies, etc. They take tons of free product, get jobs that companies only create for them to have because they are so "down," etc. When you've got all of this extra weight, it drives the price of your goods up. That's why there is such a disparity between the price of a blank board and a graphic board, even when they are produced in the same place.

And yeah, some little guys are going to go under. So what? Being cool does not entitle you to an easy living doing participating in a recreational activity. A large part of the problems we are having today are due to this false sense of entitlement a lot of skateboarders suddenly have. If these guys care about it so much, they can do it while going to school and having a job like the rest of us. I don't have any sympathy for them.

[close]

i don't know if this is the case outside of skateparks or skateshops, but fuckin a, man, skating and the "bro system" is what it's all about. Chilling with good people while share the good wealth. Kind of like how your gramps bought you a benz, except you simply present yourself as a spoiled prick.


Also, what kind of crew do you have? Any with which to participate in this recreational activity?

[close]

Actually dude, I've had some awkward moments with the whole "bro system".

Sometimes guys make assumptions about other skaters assuming everyone's on the same page or on the same mentality. I usually get along real well with the "bros" who don't take being a "bro" so seriously. Maybe I'm anit-bro, it seems some dudes cling-on to the whole "bro system" as if thats all they got, and I think with this spectacular moment in history that we're all living in, theres a little more going on than your status/image in the skate world, I mean who fucking cares, look at who just got elected President? Just skate and be nice and respect the OG's and I think thats it.

Hey man, i can see what you're saying, maybe we're not even on the same page here. When i'm talking about "bros" i'm talking about my homies. If ive got something good to give, i'm going to hook my people the fuck up, so long as they're not being shit bags.
I'm fuckin wicked out of the loop with this shit i guess, status/image mean absolutely nothing to me. I just skate with my friends and if i meet new people, then fuck yeah, but if not, i could really care less. i've been skating for half of my life at this point, that's what it's about, skating more.

[Zurg]

ugghh, i actually have to agree with newton here i think(not the blackbox and mexican employee stuff). maybe there wasnt room for many of these small board companies in the first place and even though i like alot of them, it probably wouldnt bother me for much longer than a day if they went out of business. on the positive side of things, when energy drink companies profit starts going down you think theyre gonna hesitate to pull the plug on whatever skating endorsement they have going? i guess this turned out to be a pretty pointless post, but i know alot of you were born in the 90s and are part of this disposable generation, so act like it, i guess.

[robgonyon]

Bummer.

that tre flip photo is too crazy

[steezus_christ]

Industry going to shit..... OHHH NO! WE HAVE TO GET REAL JOBS NOW! FUCK! WE ALL DROPPED OUT OF SCHOOL TO GET SPONSORED! WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO NOW???

Fuck you, get a real job, if you though this shit was going to last forever you're a fucking moron. The economy is in the shitter and this could very well be the downfall of the skateboard industry many of us 'non-industry' types have been praying for the last few years. I'd be happy if half of the 'industry' went out of business.... Fuck these Etnies wearing 'skate-mom' whores. I'm sick of seeing cloned skateparks surrounded with 12 foot bars that look like a prison. I'd much rather be getting chased out of a school yard than wearing elbow pads and trying to learn piviot fakies with 57 12 year olds trying to look cool and getting in my way while their 10 year old girlfriends talk about Sheckler.

[HR999]

Stay Pure, Stay Poor

if you are already close to the bottom you dont have as far to fall
as long as you kow how to land on your feet you can take a hit and keep rolling

[danker peaches]

Fuck these Etnies wearing 'skate-mom' whores.

there is nothing wrong with whores wearing etnies

[bobjohn]

If you compare this to the industry crash which coincided with the 1990-1991 recession, the corporations were the first to go.

Big chains like Foot Locker sell on volume, they don't want to invest in product that doesn't sell. But the fact that skate fashion has become somewhat removed from its function means that if non-skaters continue to buy skate shoes for whatever reason(everyone needs shoes), they'll keep selling them. If not, they'll drop them for something else. Airwalk, which had started out with only corporate accounts in the mid '80s, were no longer in Mervyn's in 1991 and on the shelves of mom 'n pops.

I'm looking through a December '91 Transworld and the only corporate advertisement are for an L.A. Guns record and a Good 'n Fruity snowboard contest series. Struggling pros were scrambling to start new small companies, usually through existing manufacturers and "distributors" who'd lost their touch with the youth. Although Rocco was pretty much running things by that point, New Deal was still fairly new, as well as Acme, Black Label, Planet Earth, and Alien Workshop. Eventually, you'd see a whole slew of small companies.

That said, the industry is much different than it was in 1990. Converse was the only big shoe company to have a team, and a small one at that. Independent shops, many of the surf variety, were much more prevalent, while real skate shop owners had more of an emotional and personal investment to skateboarding. Pac Sun had dabbled in skateboards before, but it was far too esoteric to keep up with back then.

Because of these differences, I see a huge void on the retail end when Active shuts down shops (that destroyed other local shops) and when Pac Sun goes returns to tank tops and sunglasses. Smaller companies will find it harder to get accounts. Of course, the internet wasn't around in '91, however, I have yet to see independent skate shops use it to its full potential. Nike will keep pushing skateboarding as long as they can milk it, but I see little development with Adidas, Puma, etc. For some reason, I see the DLX camp as the only one coming out of this fairly unscathed.

[Dr Newton]

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Any good business man will tell you a sure fire way to conserve capital is to reduce your spending.
Employee's are always the first line to go. I agree that your idea sounds good but when we know you can have 1 person do the work that 2 or 3 usually do then it makes the decision that much easier.
Only problem is then a lot of stuff falls by the wayside.

[close]

the problem with this is that usually 1 guy doesn't want to do 3 peoples jobs.  they'll tolerate the workload for a little while but it only a matter of time before they feel they're being slaved and unappreciated and they eventually quit.

i worked at a dotcom back in the days and thats pretty much what happened to me.  they cut 2 people trying to save money which left me doing 3 peoples jobs for 1 persons pay.  i did it for a little while expecting to get some sort of raise but i got nothing.  they were paying the 2 people $100K combined.  if they gave me a $25K raise they would've still save $75K and i would've been happy to stay but they weren't trying to give me shit.  they expected me to work all 3 jobs on top of working on weekends since it was a huge workload.  it didn't help being on salary since i was making the same money even if i work 60+ hours a week.  unless you're desperate for work, you're going to quit, i quit. 

[close]

A lot of the guys in this situation aren't exactly doing $100,000 worth of work though. Warehouse jobs and stuff like that are super easy if you can do physical labor, and I'm guessing here there were people who were taking a lot of downtime. Also, the skate industry is unique in this aspect -- people will quit at a dotcom because no one actually wants to work at EvilFaceless Incorporated. On the other hand, for the average dropout wannabe pro skater, working in a warehouse in California beside your favorite pros for forty hours a week is like a dream job. It's not much of a living for any of us, but they see it as being around skateboarding while still having enough money to actually eat once in a while. 

I do feel bad for the migrant Mexican slaves Jamie Thomas "employed" and then kicked to the curb though. I don't think they get unemployment over there, and it's not like these people were making enough to actually be able to save anything.That is one good thing about Barack Obama being elected. This "free trade" bullshit is a huge scam, and when the rest of the world is under economic socialism, and wages there are artificially low, there is nothing "capitalist" about sending jobs over there. Unfair competition is just being placed on the American worker -- stifling wages and hurting consumer spending.

[close]

Once again, Newton spewing about shit he knows nothing about.

-First off, we all know you don't feel bad for anyone, you've proved you're a selfish prick time and time again.

-Secondly, factories always fluctuate the number of employees they have due to the amount of work there is to be done. This is true anywhere in the world. Truth is, in Mexico the people are protected by the laws better than in most countries, while they don't have unemployment, all employees that are laid off have to be paid 90 days severance plus they're entitled to a certain amount of money for how long they've worked at the company.

-Lastly, regarding Nafta, minimum wage is dictated by the cost of living in a place, so there's nothing artificially low unless you're running illegal labor/not abiding by the laws.
...and at the at this point in the game, it's not a question of US vs. Mexico, it's a question of Mexico vs. China. It's very difficult to pay for overhead, market and promote a brand at the level needed to stay strong and give boards to shops for prices they need to make a margin getting 'all' of your boards made in the US. It basically only works for small brands with low overhead and minimal marketing commitments. Once you reach a certain size, the importance of maintaining a certain profit margin to keep the cash flow going in order to sustain business is crucial. It's called profit, but that doesn't mean you're taking bags of money home, it means you have money to pay your bills on time and give terms to the people that need it.

...you obviously need some life experience, but I'll give you that you're an expert in 'idealism'!

Here is some life experience for you: seven years ago I could walk into a skate shop, and out of every board on the wall, only two would've been made in foreign countries. In 2002, when Dwindle finally admitted to making boards in China, it was an considered an outrage. Now, I am sitting here just six years later, reading about how I am "idealistic" for not wanting the quality of a product I use to go down. What's more, it's from an Alabama redneck who is trying to give me advice on economics. I mean, just sit back for a second and consider how ridiculous your entire point is; which, hiding behind the personal attacks and insults, is this:

1. A large company, in order to be profitable, must sacrifice the quality of it's products.

I recognize that companies like Walmart make a lot of money on the idea of reduced quality products. But you aren't Walmart -- you sell your products to large boardsports retailers, who in turn let them go for almost 100% more than the price of a similar quality generic. In fact, right beside the "tail devils":

http://www.zumiez.com/zshop/ProductList.aspx?OrganizationID=287&DepartmentID=2&ShopByBrand=True

Other large companies don't go that route, yet they somehow manage to make money. Mercedez Benz is still making stuff in countries like Germany, Hungary, and the USA.

Another reason you are fundamentally wrong is because despite what you say, other skateboard companies just as large as you are  are somehow still managing to make stuff in the USA. You may remember Tum Yeto. Toy Machine and Foundation are getting boards from Watson Laminates. In fact, I even remember you bragging once that the Toy Machine board I was riding was made "by the same Mexicans Zero boards are made by, but they come out being a bit cheaper because they are 30 miles and one border apart" or some fucked up phrase like that in one of your gay private messages.

Oh, and just for your consideration: the cost of living in Mexico may be cheap, but that doesn't mean your workers are getting a US standard of living. The cost of living in Kenya maybe be a couple of dollars a year, but the standard of living involves living in a mud hut with no electricity. Any way you put it, they're getting screwed and so are we.

[Dr Newton]

Hey man, i can see what you're saying, maybe we're not even on the same page here. When i'm talking about "bros" i'm talking about my homies. If ive got something good to give, i'm going to hook my people the fuck up, so long as they're not being shit bags.
I'm fuckin wicked out of the loop with this shit i guess, status/image mean absolutely nothing to me. I just skate with my friends and if i meet new people, then fuck yeah, but if not, i could really care less. i've been skating for half of my life at this point, that's what it's about, skating more.

Just to clear this up one last time: I am not talking about giving your personal property away to others. I am not talking about making pro skaters pay for the decks they ride. I am not even talking about getting rid of product tosses at demos. This is what I mean:

Let's say you have a small hamburger restaurant with one employee. You sell 20 hamburgers every week, and the total costs of running your business including all expenses is $200 per week. To break even, you have to sell each hamburger for $10, but you sell them for $15 instead so that you can make a living. You end up making $100 a week profit on that. But soon, your employee, some stupid teenage kid, starts giving five of those hamburgers away each week to his gay little friends. [In the skate industry, these gay little friends are the 'hipsters' -- dead weight losers that oftentimes do not even skate.] This leaves you with only fifteen hamburgers to sell each week, and with that fifteen you still have to come up with your $300 to stay open and make a living. To do this, you have to increase the price of your fifteen remaining hamburgers from $15 to $20 -- a 25% increase for nothing.

So what is fair here? Should the teenager's gay little friends get free hamburgers, while everyone else is forced to pay $20? Or would it be better if everyone just payed $15?

I think the dead weight should be gotten rid of. That dead weight is in the "bro system." "All other industries" are not throwing money down the toilet, making their customers pay for it, and then bitching when the consumer goes somewhere else [blank decks]. In fact, no other industries except for governments are nearly this buerocratic. I know this is confusing to a lot of you, and for some it is probably even intimidating, but you have to look at things in these terms sometimes.

[I SUCK!]

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Once again, Newton spewing about shit he knows nothing about.

-First off, we all know you don't feel bad for anyone, you've proved you're a selfish prick time and time again.

-Secondly, factories always fluctuate the number of employees they have due to the amount of work there is to be done. This is true anywhere in the world. Truth is, in Mexico the people are protected by the laws better than in most countries, while they don't have unemployment, all employees that are laid off have to be paid 90 days severance plus they're entitled to a certain amount of money for how long they've worked at the company.

-Lastly, regarding Nafta, minimum wage is dictated by the cost of living in a place, so there's nothing artificially low unless you're running illegal labor/not abiding by the laws.
...and at the at this point in the game, it's not a question of US vs. Mexico, it's a question of Mexico vs. China. It's very difficult to pay for overhead, market and promote a brand at the level needed to stay strong and give boards to shops for prices they need to make a margin getting 'all' of your boards made in the US. It basically only works for small brands with low overhead and minimal marketing commitments. Once you reach a certain size, the importance of maintaining a certain profit margin to keep the cash flow going in order to sustain business is crucial. It's called profit, but that doesn't mean you're taking bags of money home, it means you have money to pay your bills on time and give terms to the people that need it.

...you obviously need some life experience, but I'll give you that you're an expert in 'idealism'!

[close]

Here is some life experience for you: seven years ago I could walk into a skate shop, and out of every board on the wall, only two would've been made in foreign countries. In 2002, when Dwindle finally admitted to making boards in China, it was an considered an outrage. Now, I am sitting here just six years later, reading about how I am "idealistic" for not wanting the quality of a product I use to go down. What's more, it's from an Alabama redneck who is trying to give me advice on economics. I mean, just sit back for a second and consider how ridiculous your entire point is; which, hiding behind the personal attacks and insults, is this:

1. A large company, in order to be profitable, must sacrifice the quality of it's products.

I recognize that companies like Walmart make a lot of money on the idea of reduced quality products. But you aren't Walmart -- you sell your products to large boardsports retailers, who in turn let them go for almost 100% more than the price of a similar quality generic. In fact, right beside the "tail devils":

http://www.zumiez.com/zshop/ProductList.aspx?OrganizationID=287&DepartmentID=2&ShopByBrand=True

Other large companies don't go that route, yet they somehow manage to make money. Mercedez Benz is still making stuff in countries like Germany, Hungary, and the USA.

Another reason you are fundamentally wrong is because despite what you say, other skateboard companies just as large as you are  are somehow still managing to make stuff in the USA. You may remember Tum Yeto. Toy Machine and Foundation are getting boards from Watson Laminates. In fact, I even remember you bragging once that the Toy Machine board I was riding was made "by the same Mexicans Zero boards are made by, but they come out being a bit cheaper because they are 30 miles and one border apart" or some fucked up phrase like that in one of your gay private messages.

Oh, and just for your consideration: the cost of living in Mexico may be cheap, but that doesn't mean your workers are getting a US standard of living. The cost of living in Kenya maybe be a couple of dollars a year, but the standard of living involves living in a mud hut with no electricity. Any way you put it, they're getting screwed and so are we.

Sorry man, but your argument is based on some BS. The quality is the same.
All the wood and glue is from the same place and I've been to Watson laminates, the dudes working there are just as mexican as the dudes that work in our factory.

The cars brand comparison is so far off base it's ridiculous?

Back to Zumiez pricing. Not sure how you don't get this yet, but a shop's retail prices is not up to us. It's set by what people are willing to pay. That's basic economics.

Regarding your comment on the cost of living.
We're not talking about Kenya, we're talking about Mexico. The workers are paid in accordance with the labor laws of mexico. Those labor laws coincide with cost of living in Mexico not the US. Why would they be, they're not paying for food or rent in the US.

The point is that you don't know what's 'really' going on. You just know what you can see from your high school.
I may be from Alabama, but I've been around the world and learned how much I don't know and I'm thankful to keep learning.
In no way do I think I'm smart, so you calling me a redneck is not offensive.

Keep trying dude!

[Edward Penishands]

hey jamie, are your boards made in the same factory as the DLX boards?  the real i just got has the same "made in mexico" sticker as the mysterys/zeros do.

[SFblah]

hey jamie, are your boards made in the same factory as the DLX boards?  the real i just got has the same "made in mexico" sticker as the mysterys/zeros do.

In this global economy those "Made in Mexico" stickers could be possibly be made in China and sold to everyone.

[Edward Penishands]

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hey jamie, are your boards made in the same factory as the DLX boards?  the real i just got has the same "made in mexico" sticker as the mysterys/zeros do.

[close]

In this global economy those "Made in Mexico" stickers could be possibly be made in China and sold to everyone.

perspective on stickers = shattered

[nice weather]

sorry to bring the bro thing up once more, but who are the ones that give away the stuff? According to the burger comparison some company employee or team rider or did I miss something? I agree that it's a deadweight, but I can't really believe it actually influences the prices..

[riding walls]

Our newest shipment of creature decks had big made in china stickers plastered on the side of each board.
I'm not positive but they remind me a lot of girl/choc boards. Kinda heavy and really stiff.

[hariseldon]

To do this, you have to increase the price of your fifteen remaining hamburgers from $15 to $20 -- a 25% increase for nothing.

Please tell me you're not an accountant.

[danker peaches]

Expand Quote

To do this, you have to increase the price of your fifteen remaining hamburgers from $15 to $20 -- a 25% increase for nothing.

[close]

Please tell me you're not an accountant.

hes a 14 year old with a computer in his room

[H8R part 4]

Just to clear this up one last time: I am not talking about giving your personal property away to others. I am not talking about making pro skaters pay for the decks they ride. I am not even talking about getting rid of product tosses at demos. This is what I mean:

Let's say you have a small hamburger restaurant with one employee. You sell 20 hamburgers every week, and the total costs of running your business including all expenses is $200 per week. To break even, you have to sell each hamburger for $10, but you sell them for $15 instead so that you can make a living. You end up making $100 a week profit on that. But soon, your employee, some stupid teenage kid, starts giving five of those hamburgers away each week to his gay little friends. [In the skate industry, these gay little friends are the 'hipsters' -- dead weight losers that oftentimes do not even skate.] This leaves you with only fifteen hamburgers to sell each week, and with that fifteen you still have to come up with your $300 to stay open and make a living. To do this, you have to increase the price of your fifteen remaining hamburgers from $15 to $20 -- a 25% increase for nothing.

So what is fair here? Should the teenager's gay little friends get free hamburgers, while everyone else is forced to pay $20? Or would it be better if everyone just payed $15?

I think the dead weight should be gotten rid of. That dead weight is in the "bro system." "All other industries" are not throwing money down the toilet, making their customers pay for it, and then bitching when the consumer goes somewhere else [blank decks]. In fact, no other industries except for governments are nearly this buerocratic. I know this is confusing to a lot of you, and for some it is probably even intimidating, but you have to look at things in these terms sometimes.

yo dumbass, thats a 33% increase, please stay in school.



thats said, i actually agree with some of what you're saying.  i see skate shop workers hooking up their friends all the time.  while it seems like the norm, that hook up is on the owners dollar, not theirs and thats where most of the problem lies. 

when someone opens a business, its to make money, not to have their employees give discounts to all their buddies.
if i had employees that gave out hooks without my permission, i'd simply deduct the amount from their pay and let them deal with it. 

 
     

[Zurg]

where exactly do you draw the line on that though? a lot of independent shops pride and advertise themselves on the basis that regular customers get a bit of a discount or spotting a bit of the price if youre flat broke and the whole family vibe

[Chad Fernandez]

I hate motherfuckers who bitch about the good ol days, shut the fuck up, if you were skating during that era then you would know whats up.

/THREAD

[Dr Newton]

Sorry man, but your argument is based on some BS. The quality is the same.
All the wood and glue is from the same place and I've been to Watson laminates, the dudes working there are just as mexican as the dudes that work in our factory.

We can argue about the quality all day long. That isn't the point. Please tell me why it is that Tod Swank, who is just as big as you, can make his boards in America, and you can't?

The cars brand comparison is so far off base it's ridiculous?

No it isn't. Mercedes uses top quality products and does most of their manufacturing in developed countries. They are larger than you. They are profitable.

Back to Zumiez pricing. Not sure how you don't get this yet, but a shop's retail prices is not up to us. It's set by what people are willing to pay. That's basic economics.

Well I'm glad to see you know some of the basics about economics, but actually your prices do directly affect theirs. The concept here is supply and demand -- not just demand. The real point is that your boards are expensive everywhere.

Regarding your comment on the cost of living.
We're not talking about Kenya, we're talking about Mexico. The workers are paid in accordance with the labor laws of mexico. Those labor laws coincide with cost of living in Mexico not the US. Why would they be, they're not paying for food or rent in the US.

Okay, Kenya was just an example. We can talk about Mexico if you want. The standard of living in Mexico SUCKS -- so bad, in fact, that millions of Mexicans flee the country to come to the US each year to make less than minimum wage. Look at the standard of living of a person living in the US on minimum wage. It's not a living. The conditions are deplorable. But to those living on Mexico's minimum wage, they risk their lives to try to get it. People like your workers are risking their lives just to gain the lifestyle of the convenience store clerk down the street.

That's called wage slavery, no matter what "the labor laws" say. Fuck you.


And to the people who are up in arms about my mathematical error, I am sincerely very sorry. Please find it in your kindest of hearts to forgive me for that. I got so caught up in my example that I thought the numbers were 20 and 25. Again, please forgive me.