Cons X Thrasher product line

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

J Rog et. al. My statement is barely political, if at all. Just know, that when you are out there thinking you look all cool and rebellious in your converse X thrasher shoes, a lot of people are laughing at you for wearing a shoe that a huge corporation made for the purpose of having a rebellious image. A LOT of people are laughing at you.
Oh, also J Rog, no logo ain't shit. If you want to really read something that will show you how fucked the fashion industry is read "behind the label" by Edna Bonacich and Richard Appelbaum. But again, this is not political. Nike can go and make shit for whoever they want. But if a skateboarder wears nike, converse, or any of those brands, I instantly think they are some lame kid who started skating because he watched the x-games and played THPS, or a greedy pro in it for the money, and lose a shitload of respect for them. Y'all can argue that these brands and the people who support them are good or cool, but they aren't in any way, and deserve mockery for just not fucking getting it. I find it shocking that thrasher doesn't get it, or cares that much about money that they are willing to ignore everything they have ever claimed just to get some ad revenue. And if thrasher people read me saying this, and get all mad, don't kill the messenger, I guarantee I am not the only one who saw this and instantly thought "wow, thrasher sucks now." Nice decision Phelps, hope the money was worth it.
So keep arguing that pro-nike, pro-converse, pro-adidas argument. You'll never win it with somebody who respects skateboarding's unique culture, you'll just keep proving how lame you are.

[J_Rog]

(it's actually difficult to find photos of Jay Adams and Duane Peters wearing adidas/cons in the internets. so I gave up)
(oh, and Gonz)

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

(it's actually difficult to find photos of Jay Adams and Duane Peters wearing adidas/cons in the internets. so I gave up)
(oh, and Gonz)

(That argument has been pulled several times. As soon as real skate shoe companies existed, nobody wore nikes anymore. Again, you can argue all you want, its not going to change the fact that as soon as you strap those shoes on, there are of people who are going to laugh at you.)
(You started skating since nike sb was started and don't realize that they didn't give a shit about skating until the 2000's, because it was profitable, did you?)
(oh, and why are we using parenthesis?)

[J_Rog]

Colin McKay skating in Pumas in Virtual Reality, and there are probably other examples of Lavar Mcbride and the EMB consort skating in shell toes or Clydes back in 93 - 95. Gonz has been riding adidas since forever, and what makes a skate shoe company? Etnies sponsors motor x and you can find es and emerica on mall bargain tables.

*puff*

I watched the whole nike thing unfold. i read that anti nike article in the last big brother. i dont get your argument. do legit skate shoe companies make shoes out of the goodness of their heart?
*exhale*

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Colin McKay skating in Pumas in Virtual Reality, and there are probably other examples of Lavar Mcbride and the EMB consort skating in shell toes or Clydes back in 93 - 95. Gonz has been riding adidas since forever, and what makes a skate shoe company? Etnies sponsors motor x and you can find es and emerica on mall bargain tables.

*puff*

I watched the whole nike thing unfold. i read that anti nike article in the last big brother. i dont get your argument. do legit skate shoe companies make shoes out of the goodness of their heart?
*exhale*

First of all, all of those examples are 93 and earlier, but whatever. You are just too young to remember a time when you could tell who another skater was just by looking at his shoes, and are one of many stupid little kids who doesn't understand how lame a dude on a skateboard looks with that shit on his feet. People are laughing at you, no matter how many rationalizations you can come up with about people wearing that shit 20 years ago when companies that only catered to skaters didn't really exist. If you want to shell out a ton of money to look like some corporate whore, go ahead, just realize, a lot of people think you are a kook, no matter how you rationalize it. Its sad to see a scene that was once really cool and independent turn into a bunch of fashion obsessed little bitches who need mainstream brands to legitimize them.

[Jupiter]

these big shoe companies make shoes that skate better than 95% of "core" skate brands shoes. that's just the way it is.

as a consumer you have the right to buy the superior product and if Nike and Adidas skate shoes are the superior product then so be it.

Nike gets larger and the quality is still top notch while companies like DC get larger and the quality goes to shit. not my fault dunks skate better than a shitty pair of Osiris South Bronx.

[J_Rog]

Expand Quote

Colin McKay skating in Pumas in Virtual Reality, and there are probably other examples of Lavar Mcbride and the EMB consort skating in shell toes or Clydes back in 93 - 95. Gonz has been riding adidas since forever, and what makes a skate shoe company? Etnies sponsors motor x and you can find es and emerica on mall bargain tables.

*puff*

I watched the whole nike thing unfold. i read that anti nike article in the last big brother. i dont get your argument. do legit skate shoe companies make shoes out of the goodness of their heart?
*exhale*

[close]

First of all, all of those examples are 93 and earlier, but whatever. You are just too young to remember a time when you could tell who another skater was just by looking at his shoes, and are one of many stupid little kids who doesn't understand how lame a dude on a skateboard looks with that shit on his feet. People are laughing at you, no matter how many rationalizations you can come up with about people wearing that shit 20 years ago when companies that only catered to skaters didn't really exist. If you want to shell out a ton of money to look like some corporate whore, go ahead, just realize, a lot of people think you are a kook, no matter how you rationalize it. Its sad to see a scene that was once really cool and independent turn into a bunch of fashion obsessed little bitches who need mainstream brands to legitimize them.

You know what man, you are right! Fashions don't last forever, and when Nike and cons aren't cool any more you can stand back and say "ha ha! i fucking told you so! I liked that band before you did!"

Lakai or DIE - are you a bad enough dude to save the the president?

[Chris Jericho]

 I've been a part of skateboarding since '84 and a shop owner since '92. What's missing from this argument about what's cool or core or acceptable is that almost all of the "core" skate shoe companies sold out the skate shops as soon as they got the chance. Lakai, DVS and many more are in Eastbay. The name of the DVS "core" line is ORIGINAL INTENT! - as in our original intent was to make skate shoes, but we saw how much we could make in Wakeboarding, Motorcross and God knows what else. If that's not a slap in the face of shops than I don't know what is. Every "core" brand started rebuilding their teams and becoming involved with shops again when they realized the Mega Corporations started doing a better job supporting shops than they were. I watched multiple brands that were "core" expand distribution that took shops from destination locations to just another place to buy skate shoes, but wasn't as convenient to get to as the mall or the internet.
 I notice that some of the previous posts were about how lame you look wearing Cons or Nike or Adidas which, as we all know, is really the most important reason used when picking out what skate shoes you buy.

This is not an argument that can be won or lost.

[yeahisaidit]

Expand Quote

if anyone knows a place i can preorder or buy those black gum cts hit me up. i have to have them. no seriously, i need them so bad. how do cons fit in size? say, to an adidas busenitz pro

[close]

i wear a 9 in most shoes, and i wear a 8.5 in cons and the non-skate chucks. i also have a small wide foot, so the skate ones fit too tight at first.

i wear an 11 in the busenitz, and a 10 in the cts and regular chucks.

[shredorbread]

anyones shop get these in yet?

[eames1]

I've been a part of skateboarding since '84 and a shop owner since '92. What's missing from this argument about what's cool or core or acceptable is that almost all of the "core" skate shoe companies sold out the skate shops as soon as they got the chance. Lakai, DVS and many more are in Eastbay. The name of the DVS "core" line is ORIGINAL INTENT! - as in our original intent was to make skate shoes, but we saw how much we could make in Wakeboarding, Motorcross and God knows what else. If that's not a slap in the face of shops than I don't know what is. Every "core" brand started rebuilding their teams and becoming involved with shops again when they realized the Mega Corporations started doing a better job supporting shops than they were. I watched multiple brands that were "core" expand distribution that took shops from destination locations to just another place to buy skate shoes, but wasn't as convenient to get to as the mall or the internet.
 I notice that some of the previous posts were about how lame you look wearing Cons or Nike or Adidas which, as we all know, is really the most important reason used when picking out what skate shoes you buy.

This is not an argument that can be won or lost.

This is an argument that has to be won, where you and your lively hood are concerned. The Vans, Adio's, Ipath's, DC's, Volcom's and Element's questionable distribution choices have over the last 4 years  been guided by analyst and shareholders demand for growth and profitability. And all the while Zumiez and PacSun (also publicly traded companies) have squeezed their suppliers for greater margins and marketing dollars.  All the while independent retailers like yourself, get squeezed.  The "foot lockering" of skate shops has to be worrying to the "authentic" skate shoe manufacturer's. Or at least i would hope so.
The publicly traded companies that do business in skateboarding are faced with the same economic challenges that effect all large corporations today. The need for increased revenue, reduction of expenses, and increase of overall profitability. How these companies do it is the million dollar question. Is it by reducing marketing budget. And don't forget that your favorite pro's all fall into some companies ever shrinking marketing budget, as do the tours that roll through town and the video's that get produced. Is it by making more, even crazier distribution decisions (department stores etc). This wackiness has already ensued. Nordstrom, Macy's, etc. they are stocking skate brands.

The question for independent skate retailers has to be, what am i going to stock and get the maximum return for MY investment? What products am i going to stock and is that company going to SUPPORT me?  It's not even a question of whether it's from an "athletic"based brand or an "authentic" skate brand. You have to stock products that are going to enable YOU to make a living and keep the door open.

[alrightythen]

I just like shoes

[Chris Jericho]

Expand Quote

I've been a part of skateboarding since '84 and a shop owner since '92. What's missing from this argument about what's cool or core or acceptable is that almost all of the "core" skate shoe companies sold out the skate shops as soon as they got the chance. Lakai, DVS and many more are in Eastbay. The name of the DVS "core" line is ORIGINAL INTENT! - as in our original intent was to make skate shoes, but we saw how much we could make in Wakeboarding, Motorcross and God knows what else. If that's not a slap in the face of shops than I don't know what is. Every "core" brand started rebuilding their teams and becoming involved with shops again when they realized the Mega Corporations started doing a better job supporting shops than they were. I watched multiple brands that were "core" expand distribution that took shops from destination locations to just another place to buy skate shoes, but wasn't as convenient to get to as the mall or the internet.
 I notice that some of the previous posts were about how lame you look wearing Cons or Nike or Adidas which, as we all know, is really the most important reason used when picking out what skate shoes you buy.

This is not an argument that can be won or lost.

[close]

This is an argument that has to be won, where you and your lively hood are concerned. The Vans, Adio's, Ipath's, DC's, Volcom's and Element's questionable distribution choices have over the last 4 years  been guided by analyst and shareholders demand for growth and profitability. And all the while Zumiez and PacSun (also publicly traded companies) have squeezed their suppliers for greater margins and marketing dollars.  All the while independent retailers like yourself, get squeezed.  The "foot lockering" of skate shops has to be worrying to the "authentic" skate shoe manufacturer's. Or at least i would hope so.
The publicly traded companies that do business in skateboarding are faced with the same economic challenges that effect all large corporations today. The need for increased revenue, reduction of expenses, and increase of overall profitability. How these companies do it is the million dollar question. Is it by reducing marketing budget. And don't forget that your favorite pro's all fall into some companies ever shrinking marketing budget, as do the tours that roll through town and the video's that get produced. Is it by making more, even crazier distribution decisions (department stores etc). This wackiness has already ensued. Nordstrom, Macy's, etc. they are stocking skate brands.

The question for independent skate retailers has to be, what am i going to stock and get the maximum return for MY investment? What products am i going to stock and is that company going to SUPPORT me?  It's not even a question of whether it's from an "athletic"based brand or an "authentic" skate brand. You have to stock products that are going to enable YOU to make a living and keep the door open.

 That is exactly my point. I stock the brands that support our shop, scene and city. It's not black and white anymore, and hasn't been for the past 4 or 5 years. I'll admit I was steadfast against the major brands, in the beginning, but then witnessed the greed of the "authentic" brands. How much was enough? The answer is... it's never enough. It was then I realized there isn't much difference between most of the authentic and athletic shoe companies. The economics of retail are completely understood on my part and I don't in the least bit feel compromised by stocking Nike and Adidas alongside Emerica and Lakai. Just as Businitz and Koston don't feel compromised wearing them. Skateboarding isn't what it was 10 years ago or 5 years ago for that matter. Skateboarders are making this decision for all retailers and manufacturers, Janoski's and Businitz's shoes are selling extremely well. I'd say half of the "core" guys on this message board have  rock one or the other.
 I meant the argument can't be won or lost online, but the war will be waged for quite a few more years.....or at least until Zumies, CCS retail stores and Vans stores get rid of all of us pesky independent skate shops.
 

[starvingrobot]

Who cares?  Buy what you like.

[toque]

I've read this argument on here too many times to really argue either side but...Nike's vulcanized sole skates really, really well. 

 

Just know, that when you are out there thinking you look all cool and rebellious in your converse X thrasher shoes, a lot of people are laughing at you for wearing a shoe that a huge corporation made for the purpose of having a rebellious image. A LOT of people are laughing at you.

I don't believe this for a second.  depending where you live maybe three or four people are laughing at you for wearing corporate shoes,  but "A LOT" in capitals is a stretch.  Shoes are just shoes.  Half the time I buy shoes form marshals or ross anyways.  It all goes back to that "blah blah blah won't change the act of me rolling around on my skateboard" argument that gets brought up so often on here. 

[Beer Wizard]

[theskatereptile]

either way. i'm getting 2 of those shoes

[Epic]

It sucks to support the jock brands.  But the shoes just skate SO damn good.  I'm sorry but es, vans, lakai and emerica have nothing on a pair of nikes, adidas, or cons.  They just don't.  And until they step up their games I'm not going to buy there shitty ass shoes.  The "core" skate brands need to really get their shit together.

[jacquesknife]

It's just a fucking logo, they all still get stitched together by exploited workers in China.

Having worn and skated skate shoes for the past 15 years, I can honestly say the best pairs I've ever worn are a pair of suede Cons circa 1998 and my current pairs of Nikes.

Worst pairs were Vans and DC circa 2001.

[J_Rog]

people care though. "Koston on Nike?!?" ran for 1700 pages. arto caught wearing geoffs vans made every mags news section.

First of all, all of those examples are 93 and earlier, but whatever.

Your hero Penny skating in adidas during the tour footage in Really Sorry (would have been around the time he had his first shoe on es)
Apples being snapped in a pair of Nike frees (this year)
Mark Johnson skating in everything from adidas to nike during Man Down (he was also skating nike running shoes during an Emerica tour!)
Dustin skating in dress shoes/cowboy boots in his Epicly Later'd

Just know, that when you are out there thinking you look all cool and rebellious in your converse X thrasher shoes, a lot of people are laughing at you for wearing a shoe that a huge corporation made for the purpose of having a rebellious image. A LOT of people are laughing at you.

Is that your driving force? Like Thrashin' directed by Larry Clark?  Calling someone a poser as soon as they try and affect a look says more about you than it does about them. Guys who bought the Slap colab weren't thinking that they were James Dean.

You said once that anyone who didn't understand P-Rod didn't understand skateboarding. And P-Rod is the biggest corporate whore there is.

[GnarlesManson]

boulala skating clogs and cowboyboots

[mr. anderson]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

I've been a part of skateboarding since '84 and a shop owner since '92. What's missing from this argument about what's cool or core or acceptable is that almost all of the "core" skate shoe companies sold out the skate shops as soon as they got the chance. Lakai, DVS and many more are in Eastbay. The name of the DVS "core" line is ORIGINAL INTENT! - as in our original intent was to make skate shoes, but we saw how much we could make in Wakeboarding, Motorcross and God knows what else. If that's not a slap in the face of shops than I don't know what is. Every "core" brand started rebuilding their teams and becoming involved with shops again when they realized the Mega Corporations started doing a better job supporting shops than they were. I watched multiple brands that were "core" expand distribution that took shops from destination locations to just another place to buy skate shoes, but wasn't as convenient to get to as the mall or the internet.
 I notice that some of the previous posts were about how lame you look wearing Cons or Nike or Adidas which, as we all know, is really the most important reason used when picking out what skate shoes you buy.

This is not an argument that can be won or lost.

[close]

This is an argument that has to be won, where you and your lively hood are concerned. The Vans, Adio's, Ipath's, DC's, Volcom's and Element's questionable distribution choices have over the last 4 years  been guided by analyst and shareholders demand for growth and profitability. And all the while Zumiez and PacSun (also publicly traded companies) have squeezed their suppliers for greater margins and marketing dollars.  All the while independent retailers like yourself, get squeezed.  The "foot lockering" of skate shops has to be worrying to the "authentic" skate shoe manufacturer's. Or at least i would hope so.
The publicly traded companies that do business in skateboarding are faced with the same economic challenges that effect all large corporations today. The need for increased revenue, reduction of expenses, and increase of overall profitability. How these companies do it is the million dollar question. Is it by reducing marketing budget. And don't forget that your favorite pro's all fall into some companies ever shrinking marketing budget, as do the tours that roll through town and the video's that get produced. Is it by making more, even crazier distribution decisions (department stores etc). This wackiness has already ensued. Nordstrom, Macy's, etc. they are stocking skate brands.

The question for independent skate retailers has to be, what am i going to stock and get the maximum return for MY investment? What products am i going to stock and is that company going to SUPPORT me?  It's not even a question of whether it's from an "athletic"based brand or an "authentic" skate brand. You have to stock products that are going to enable YOU to make a living and keep the door open.

[close]

 That is exactly my point. I stock the brands that support our shop, scene and city. It's not black and white anymore, and hasn't been for the past 4 or 5 years. I'll admit I was steadfast against the major brands, in the beginning, but then witnessed the greed of the "authentic" brands. How much was enough? The answer is... it's never enough. It was then I realized there isn't much difference between most of the authentic and athletic shoe companies. The economics of retail are completely understood on my part and I don't in the least bit feel compromised by stocking Nike and Adidas alongside Emerica and Lakai. Just as Businitz and Koston don't feel compromised wearing them. Skateboarding isn't what it was 10 years ago or 5 years ago for that matter. Skateboarders are making this decision for all retailers and manufacturers, Janoski's and Businitz's shoes are selling extremely well. I'd say half of the "core" guys on this message board have  rock one or the other.
 I meant the argument can't be won or lost online, but the war will be waged for quite a few more years.....or at least until Zumies, CCS retail stores and Vans stores get rid of all of us pesky independent skate shops.
 

Voice of reason. Finally. Thanks.

[J_Rog]

boulala skating clogs and cowboyboots

i was meaning to include that. he also skated in red chuck tayors for a few tricks in sorry

[Boston.]

ohhhh gipper. i'm looking at the original converse factory from my window. do i mind wearing converse, or nike and adidas for that matter? nope, not at all. do i care that a small percentage of people(you and beer wizard) are "making fun of me"? nope, not at all. like it or not, the quality control is there, people are getting payed what they deserve, "core" brands are reaching to the world outside of skateboarding, these big corporations help keep legit shops in business, vans didn't start out a skate shoe company either, etc. times are a changing. who are you to say that these "lame" kids are in it just for the $$$ and aren't lifers?
j rog you forgot to add the picture of reynolds wearing air max's and herman wearing classics

[J_Rog]

how do the cts's skate?

they look like they are stitched the same way as chucks and one stars. painful as hell just to walk in unless you have ballerina feet. a whole generation is going to grow up with varicose veins

[Chris Jericho]

Shredorbread....Try a pair of Cons on. There is a huge difference between regular chucks and cts. Much more durable as well.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

It's funny how this thread has turned into them defending why they wear this shit. It wasn't even about that. It was about how shitty it is that a magazine is letting itself be essentially bought out by a corporate shoe company. Y'all got guilty consciences knowing that you are part of the generation that is making skating cheesy.

[MexicanSpaniard]

My thoughts on this thread should be obvious.

[Beer Wizard]

Thrasher is paid to advertise Nike, Converse, and Adidas on a monthly basis.

Lowcard throws an Adidas ad on the back of every issue.

They're magazines.

They want to sell copies of the Prevent This Tragedy DVD (which was probably given that title in order to sell old boxes of Prevent This Tragedy shirts that weren't selling anyway), and Converse probably offered this to them.  I'd be more pissed about them collaborating with CCS, personally.

CCS... Converse... Same corporate shit.  You should feel just as pissed about both.  Getting your footlocker shoes from.... footlocker!

[TheFifthColumn]

Non skate brands wouldn't have any sort of foothold in the market unless either they were doing something right, or their competition was doing something wrong. I would argue that Nike were able to overcome massive hurdles in the skate market simply because they offered better product*. It is hard for me to feel sorry for 'legit' skate shoe companies when they do such stupid things.

No.  It's called economies of scale, whereas firms face increasing returns to scale so that if they double inputs, their output more than doubles.  Nike caters to a much larger base than just skaters, hence they are able to be much larger in size than a company like Lakai.  Because they are so much larger, they are able to increase efficiency in ways that a smaller company (like one that only sells to skaters) can't.  Thus they are able to offer better products at a lower price than core brands.  The core brands themselves are doing nothing wrong, they simply can't expand because they are in such a narrow market.