Ace trucks

[Xen]

Speaking of price, I still feel like they're slightly too much, assuming you didn't get that Warehouseskateboards steal. At 65 I still would have wanted a hollow kingpin, I would pay 70 for full hollows, but 65 for standard still feels weird.

$65 rubbed me the wrong way so that warehouse price made it a no brainer.

[backinaction]

First impressions:
"Damn, thats a nice turn"
"Holy wheelbite" - I'm 185
"Where the fuck did my ollie go?"

[Stevezahn]

First Impressions of AF1 55s.
I’m coming from skating indy standard stage 11 149s for a couple sets in a row so probably the last 3 years it’s only been indy. The af1s were really loose at stock tightness but the bushings hardened up by the end of the session and felt great.  They turn just as well as my 66 classics on my cruiser.  The grind is harder and faster than my classics.  You have to put some force behind it when you lock in.  I was skating the park after work in western PA so it was like 50 out by the time I started skating.
After about a half hour I noticed a black substance on my hanger coming from the pivot cups and started freaking out after reading other people post about the “melting pivot cups”.  I wiped it away with my fingers and it almost felt like a lubricant.  The structural integrity of the pivot cups seems to be in tact.
I was definitely experiencing some ghost pop on my flip tricks but I attribute this to switching from Indys.  By the end of the session I was basically just skating the mini/qps and was loving the control I was feeling.  Ollies felt good but my kick/heel/tre flips felt off.
Btw I grew up skating 8.25 before they invented the 144/148/44 truck sizing so I have always ridden 149s on 8.1-8.5 decks. Currently on 8.38 wknd with the AF1 55s.

[cucktard]

So, could the ‘melting pivot cups’ actually be some kind of lubricant Ace added?

[Rubbrick]

So, could the ‘melting pivot cups’ actually be some kind of lubricant Ace added?

Maybe Ace realized that people were adding wax/lube to their cups and started doing it themselves. Those of you who ride riptides - do you guys still find the need to add wax or lube to them?

[DeepSpace9mm]

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So, could the ‘melting pivot cups’ actually be some kind of lubricant Ace added?

[close]

Maybe Ace realized that people were adding wax/lube to their cups and started doing it themselves. Those of you who ride riptides - do you guys still find the need to add wax or lube to them?

I do not lube or wax the Riptide pivot cups. I have never felt like I needed to.

I copied this from the Ace Pivot Cups page on the Riptide website.

“RipTide's exclusive Internally Lubricated WFB Urethane in 96a”

[ILikeToMilkDucks]

So, could the ‘melting pivot cups’ actually be some kind of lubricant Ace added?

There's 100% some kind of grease added to the pivots. A generous amount in my case, a lot of it had already squeezed out onto the baseplate just from me checking truck tightness by hand.

[Lou Strux]

Wonder if the new “hand poured” pivot cups were found to be squeaking on prototypes & their solution was to grease ‘em up.
What’ll they sound like after the grease leaks out?
Don’t really care; prolly gonna cop some when it’s time to re up, regardless.

[Stevezahn]

I work in the water bottling industry so all of our lubes are food grade.  They get sticky when heat from motion is applied.  With aces use of the bio degradable bags maybe the went with some eco friendly grease

[ILikeToMilkDucks]

Wonder if the new “hand poured” pivot cups were found to be squeaking on prototypes & their solution was to grease ‘em up.
What’ll they sound like after the grease leaks out?
Don’t really care; prolly gonna cop some when it’s time to re up, regardless.

They feel like they would squeak. I imagine the idea is that they'll break in before the grease wears out.

Otherwise I'll just shave some bar soap in there, tends to solve the issue.

[EvenStevieNicks]

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Alright, so I was bad and decided to try out my AF1 77s today even though my 55 classics are still going strong. Got in about an hour skating some curbs and flat, and I wanted to share my initial thoughts. Obviously these are just my first impressions, but I wanted to put them out these in case anyone was curious.

I set these up on my Cardiel football (9" over the back truck, 8.75" over the front) and I was pretty surprised by how squirrely they felt out the gate. I usually skate my Ace classics stock, and while they feel a little loose within about a half hour they're perfect. The AF1s still firmed up quick, but I did end up giving each about a half turn before I went out.

Getting out and actually skating, it needs to be said that these turn like Aces and not like Indys. The axle moves inwards with the turn and I was truly impressed with how long it took these wide-ass (9.5") trucks to bite with 56mm CF spits and only 1/8" risers. The new pivot cups feel really fucking good too, super smooth and responsive. So anyone who thinks these "might as well be Indys" or whatever, relax.

The grind is super smooth and fast, and the metal feels harder and more durable than the classics for sure. Some people are going to love this, some people are going to hate it. I am really used to the softer feeling grind of the classics and TBQH I think these will take a bit of getting used to. That being said, if you ever wanted Aces to feel harder and smoother (like an Indy), you will love these. I can already tell it is going to take a lot longer to groove these up.

Pop feel was good and not too different from the classics. I felt like I might have been popping stuff a little higher than usual, but that could have also been me just having a good day. Either way, it didn't feel super heavy or anything. Overall I am pretty psyched on these. Also, the new Ace risers feel great and it rules to finally have a riser that lines up perfectly.

Posting pic of my setup below at the end of my first session, I know it looks like a crazy hotrod but from the top you really can't see the wheels. For comparison with the bite marks, I've skated this board with 159s, 55 classics, and the 77s. If you look over the back wheels you can see where they really move towards the center before they hit.

[close]

Your setup is rad. I'm trying the 77s too.. just ordered them after riding Indys since the early 2000s to try something different!

[close]

Thanks. Feeling guilty about not running my 55 classics but I am really enjoying these a lot. Going to see how they perform on some crustier curbs tomorrow.

The extra space feels nice though.

Extra space is rad... I started up skating again at 39/40 after about a nine year gap and multiple knee injuries. I bought a 10" Heroin egg and some 215s and it really helped with slappies!

Now, I did finally tear my crappy ol' ACL and have to get surgery but I feel this was unrelated to the wide trucks 

[Mbrimson88]

Hello, just giving some additional pieces of information that might be helpful for people who are thinking about purchasing. I haven't ridden them at all so I cannot truly say how they are for now but there are two things that stand out to me after tinkering around

One: the old Riptide ace pivot cups seem to be a great fit still for the new trucks. The new ace pivot cup comes already greased and feels VERY soft in terms of squishing it with my fingers (might have to do with that "melting" issue that another user posted about). Side by side, the ace pivots and the riptides are listed both as 96A but the ace pivots are clearly much softer. They also seem to have a bigger outer band/thickness when looking straight down them.



Two: The top bushing has a much sharper cone shape than the classics. The top circumference for the new bushings is much smaller. I found this out when changing the top washer for a flat one, which I do in every truck (same with the riptides actually). I'll post a picture of the differences in the top bushing. Bottom bushings are pretty much the same



Etc. I know this isn't too helpful given that I haven't ridden the trucks yet and isn't meant to say anything about the quality of the trucks, but I thought i'd let you guys know because it was interesting for me to find out

That top bushing pic is definitely interesting.

Back when we used to cut down the top bushings a lot, I would often cut the top bit off, not the bottom bit off, so they would look a lot more like that classic one, which of course had issues popping out over the sides of the washer.

Explains it very easily to see them side by side like that, as the new ones look more like every other top bushing on the market and stock in trucks.

Appreciated the post - thank you!

[jay_nev]

Anyone stripped the black hangers yet or anything?

And general consensus is that these seem looser than classics from reading the past few pages? Different top washer, softer bushing/pivot. Guess time will tell as people break them in. The warehouseskate deal is nice but I’m going to keep riding my 55 classics with riptide pivot cups.

[ballintoohard]

They sound like super close to turn-y indys now overall, which is very tempting. I love my Thunders, but haven’t found a good feeling loose setup for them. I’ve tried various bushings, no bottom washer, no washers at all, and they turn too quick at the top for it to feel as good as a loose Indy or Ace

[ILikeToMilkDucks]

Anyone stripped the black hangers yet or anything?

And general consensus is that these seem looser than classics from reading the past few pages? Different top washer, softer bushing/pivot. Guess time will tell as people break them in. The warehouseskate deal is nice but I’m going to keep riding my 55 classics with riptide pivot cups.

Probably the loosest trucks I've ever rode.

I tend to prefer setting up trucks loose but with heavy bushings. That way they're loose at the beginning of the turn but you really have to dig in for those deep carves.

The AF1's almost feel like they don't have bushings at all, someone send Daewon a pair. But nah, the stock setup definitely is intended for light weight street guys. I can't imagine using them for transition without swapping the barrels. I can't seem to control the wheelbite at all with 53mm. By feel alone I would assume these were double conical like Thunder or Bones or something.

I'll try throwing risers on them later to see how it feels. I'm really hesitant to swap out the stock bushings right away. I went through the same thing with Classics where I just needed to be stubborn and break them in, but the AF1's definitely feel even looser than that. Or maybe my memory is clouded by broken in classics.

[Lou Strux]

Pretty clear the new top bushing shape is a response to the bush herniating from neath the top cup washer.
Any reports from new AF1 owners, re: bushing bulge?

[chrisskates808]

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Love the functionality, look and customisation of having an inverted KP but having to take the trucks off everytime you want to take your hanger off etc (or epoxy the nut so it doesn't move) is like nah. Better off angle grinding the standard kingpin nut and it grinds better that way as well apparently.

[close]

In order to get any inverted kingpin mod to work, you'll need to epoxy/glue-set the nut in somehow. Otherwise it just spins. So I never have had to take the trucks off to swap bushings or anything on the many sets I've done over the years!

[close]

Hopefully the super glue works for you, anytime I've used it a few sessions and it breaks free.

[close]

I don't know how anyone gets this to hold. Unless you have access to top secret aerospace glues, JB Weld is basically the only thing you're going to find on the shelf that will hold that in place IME

[close]

This video might help some of you struggling with it. You have to use a good epoxy - super glue isn't ever gonna cut it (ever!) and it doesn't work well with steel/metal anyway.



Apart from money, I still can't figure out why no truck companies have made a standard truck with a kingpin that sits much lower or come up with an alternative whereby the nut isn't under the baseplate.

tbh when i bought the krux inverted kingpin to put on my ace, i never had to glue it.

[yourbreakfsat]

Pretty clear the new top bushing shape is a response to the bush herniating from neath the top cup washer.
Any reports from new AF1 owners, re: bushing bulge?

That problem is GONE. No more bushing getting knocked out of the cup washer.

[jay_nev]

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Anyone stripped the black hangers yet or anything?

And general consensus is that these seem looser than classics from reading the past few pages? Different top washer, softer bushing/pivot. Guess time will tell as people break them in. The warehouseskate deal is nice but I’m going to keep riding my 55 classics with riptide pivot cups.

[close]

Probably the loosest trucks I've ever rode.

I tend to prefer setting up trucks loose but with heavy bushings. That way they're loose at the beginning of the turn but you really have to dig in for those deep carves.

The AF1's almost feel like they don't have bushings at all, someone send Daewon a pair. But nah, the stock setup definitely is intended for light weight street guys. I can't imagine using them for transition without swapping the barrels. I can't seem to control the wheelbite at all with 53mm. By feel alone I would assume these were double conical like Thunder or Bones or something.

I'll try throwing risers on them later to see how it feels. I'm really hesitant to swap out the stock bushings right away. I went through the same thing with Classics where I just needed to be stubborn and break them in, but the AF1's definitely feel even looser than that. Or maybe my memory is clouded by broken in classics.

cool thanks. I’m the same and switch to harder bushings being 205lbs but ace classics I can rock stock. Guess I’m holding off a bit, no need to rush into it.

[MusclesMarinara]

Ended up ordering a pair off af1 22s from warehouse for my new set up. Was contemplating Indys but I honestly don't want to associate with NHS, as they kinda destroyed what Indy seemed to be. I'm excited to try out ace!

[Frank and Fred]

I set up some AF1s yesterday and Jesus the bushings are spongy. I am also 200lbs and I love loose trucks but I hope these will break in and firm up a bit.

[Lou Strux]

Humor me for a moment, if you will.
Regarding the tall(ish) kingpin height and the resulting "need" to increase clearance through modification: rather than plop in an inverted kingpin and dealing with the compromises they entail, why not take an angle grinder, or cutting wheel to knock 2 mm off of the OEM kingpin, in situ, and then use an ACE "low" top bushing, (or any other 10 mm, conical, top bush that is approximately 5 duro harder than whichever 14 mm, barrel, bottom bushing you happen to be running) effectively preserving the exact baseplate-to-yoke dimension, thus maintaining the same geometry. So long as your top bush is 10 mm and 5 duro harder than a barrel bottom, the turning characteristics will be almost identical with the capability to adjust for rider weight whilst still running loose adjustment.
More clearance, no compromise, exact same turn, plus adjustability.
Note: my hypothetical scenario uses lower stock bushings, rather than the cut-down method that Brimmo & others have mentioned, because, if you're really going to get into truck madness, you're going to want to insist on retaining factory width at both the top AND bottom of your bushings, requiring a steeper taper, rather than simply lopping off the bottom, resulting in less width/material at its new wide end. By using lower factory bushings of 10 mm height (or less), the rebound pressure is exerted from the turn's initiation, as the inner lip of the yoke is already in contact with the outer edge of the bushing, so compression begins right away.
Seems like those with the tools to do this would benefit from this method rather than fucking around with inverted kingpins, which may, or may not be too tall to permit tightening them down, if THAT's how you run 'em.
As for me, I like to run all of my trucks as designed, so as to "best" experience their intended geos. Further, the inverted pins come with a set of problems of their own. why trade one prob for another, rather than resolving it, ya' know?
My'pologies if this matter has been thoroughly discussed previously in this thread.
Just talkin' out my ass here. 

[FrozenIndustries]

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Anyone stripped the black hangers yet or anything?

And general consensus is that these seem looser than classics from reading the past few pages? Different top washer, softer bushing/pivot. Guess time will tell as people break them in. The warehouseskate deal is nice but I’m going to keep riding my 55 classics with riptide pivot cups.

[close]

Probably the loosest trucks I've ever rode.

I tend to prefer setting up trucks loose but with heavy bushings. That way they're loose at the beginning of the turn but you really have to dig in for those deep carves.

The AF1's almost feel like they don't have bushings at all, someone send Daewon a pair. But nah, the stock setup definitely is intended for light weight street guys. I can't imagine using them for transition without swapping the barrels. I can't seem to control the wheelbite at all with 53mm. By feel alone I would assume these were double conical like Thunder or Bones or something.

I'll try throwing risers on them later to see how it feels. I'm really hesitant to swap out the stock bushings right away. I went through the same thing with Classics where I just needed to be stubborn and break them in, but the AF1's definitely feel even looser than that. Or maybe my memory is clouded by broken in classics.

[close]

cool thanks. I’m the same and switch to harder bushings being 205lbs but ace classics I can rock stock. Guess I’m holding off a bit, no need to rush into it.

Hard disagree about the bushings. Jay, I'm a similar height and weight, the bushings were crazy loose at first but firmed up (and continued to do so) over the next several sessions. Put my very broken in 55s back on to try and the AF1s are more firm/stable.

Perhaps mine broke in faster because of my weight, but the AF1s don't feel at all squirrelly after the first hour or two.

I set up some AF1s yesterday and Jesus the bushings are spongy. I am also 200lbs and I love loose trucks but I hope these will break in and firm up a bit.

They will, for sure. It's wild to be on my 55 classics after the AF1s.

[Bigwheelbite]

I decided I'd blow some bonus pay money on a set of 66's and a wider board, giving these AF1's one last shot after being disappointed with the new 55's. Same fuckin deal, board sounds dead, sticky as fuck grind, and now even moreso i'm learning the extended wheelbase has totally fucked up the way the pop feels. Stock top washer also clicks super loud on this set every time I turn, too. Fuck these trucks.

Stop lying dude lol

[Xen]

WarehouseSkateboards got my AF1 55s in my hands today!  Now I have to sit and wait for my 8.5" deck to show.

[EvenStevieNicks]

I've ridden Indys with Bones medium for years now. I'm about the 200lb mark, and ride them with the kingpin nuts tightened flush.

I really like the surfy feel, and I ride hard wheels in the approved 52-54mm range so no biting issues. I'm just a curbs and ollies guy thanks to a horrible front knee, so stability for flip tricks isn't my top priority.

Have any of ya'll tried the Bones bushings in the Ace trucks (AF1 or Classic), and how did you feel about them in comparison the stock Ace setup?

[clint]

I've ridden Indys with Bones medium for years now. I'm about the 200lb mark, and ride them with the kingpin nuts tightened flush.

I really like the surfy feel, and I ride hard wheels in the approved 52-54mm range so no biting issues. I'm just a curbs and ollies guy thanks to a horrible front knee, so stability for flip tricks isn't my top priority.

Have any of ya'll tried the Bones bushings in the Ace trucks (AF1 or Classic), and how did you feel about them in comparison the stock Ace setup?

Before I switched to Ace I used the exact same set up as you, and I was convinced that Aces would need Bones as well. In my experience, they don't. Ace bushings are great. And so are Bones, but I think Bones solve a problem for Indy that Ace just doesn't have.

You can use bones bushings in there, but the kingpin stack height will be a little off and the hanger won't sit quite like it is supposed to without some futzing. Something I really like about the Bones bushings is that there's no break-period. In my experience with Ace, the classic bushings have a very short break-in period (no where near as long as Indy bushings), and the newer AF1 bushings have no break-in period at all.

[Roisto]

Humor me for a moment, if you will.
Regarding the tall(ish) kingpin height and the resulting "need" to increase clearance through modification: rather than plop in an inverted kingpin and dealing with the compromises they entail, why not take an angle grinder, or cutting wheel to knock 2 mm off of the OEM kingpin, in situ, and then use an ACE "low" top bushing, (or any other 10 mm, conical, top bush that is approximately 5 duro harder than whichever 14 mm, barrel, bottom bushing you happen to be running) effectively preserving the exact baseplate-to-yoke dimension, thus maintaining the same geometry. So long as your top bush is 10 mm and 5 duro harder than a barrel bottom, the turning characteristics will be almost identical with the capability to adjust for rider weight whilst still running loose adjustment.
More clearance, no compromise, exact same turn, plus adjustability.
Note: my hypothetical scenario uses lower stock bushings, rather than the cut-down method that Brimmo & others have mentioned, because, if you're really going to get into truck madness, you're going to want to insist on retaining factory width at both the top AND bottom of your bushings, requiring a steeper taper, rather than simply lopping off the bottom, resulting in less width/material at its new wide end. By using lower factory bushings of 10 mm height (or less), the rebound pressure is exerted from the turn's initiation, as the inner lip of the yoke is already in contact with the outer edge of the bushing, so compression begins right away.
Seems like those with the tools to do this would benefit from this method rather than fucking around with inverted kingpins, which may, or may not be too tall to permit tightening them down, if THAT's how you run 'em.
As for me, I like to run all of my trucks as designed, so as to "best" experience their intended geos. Further, the inverted pins come with a set of problems of their own. why trade one prob for another, rather than resolving it, ya' know?
My'pologies if this matter has been thoroughly discussed previously in this thread.
Just talkin' out my ass here.

This is kind of what I’ve been thinking of doing in my old axled 44 classics. I just ground down the kingpin nut and kingpin so much that the nut dropped off and now it won’t go back on anymore.

I tested out the Krux downlow kingpins for a bit and they’ve got 5mm less clearance than the stock kingpin. I don’t know how I could make them work with any bushing combo.

I was thinking of just putting the normal kingpins back, possibly rethreading them if I can find the Ace kingpin rethreader die and get new nuts and just use the Ace low top bushing instead of the normal ones. I want to grind these in half but having them at “flush tightness” isn’t possible with the stock kingpin and bushings anymore.

Grinding on the kingpin isn’t much of an issue for me as long as the nuts stays on to hold my bushings in place. I would like an inverted kingpin that retains stock geometry though. Less to worry about.

[Sundaynuggets]

I've ridden Indys with Bones medium for years now. I'm about the 200lb mark, and ride them with the kingpin nuts tightened flush.

I really like the surfy feel, and I ride hard wheels in the approved 52-54mm range so no biting issues. I'm just a curbs and ollies guy thanks to a horrible front knee, so stability for flip tricks isn't my top priority.

Have any of ya'll tried the Bones bushings in the Ace trucks (AF1 or Classic), and how did you feel about them in comparison the stock Ace setup?

I use bones hards in my 33 classics because I can ride them wobbly loose that way but with some stability so I can still keep some trucks. It’s wobbly on center but then catches and stabilizes, while still keeping some turn

[bigdave]

Pretty clear the new top bushing shape is a response to the bush herniating from neath the top cup washer.
Any reports from new AF1 owners, re: bushing bulge?

None, and I am cranked down an extra 1.5+ turns on stock, the redesign was clearly to address this.

Agree with the person earlier that said these are even looser. Its for sure the case.